29erUSA187
Topic Author
Posts: 1277
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The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:41 am

Hello all, I've heard through my time on A.net of many users who have a passive or major interest in cars. (I have a major interest). I couldn't find one already out there, so I figured I'd start one here. Use this thread to discuss new cars, buying advice, cars you like, and cars you own. Anything related to Motoring!

I'll start off expressing my amazement, at the 2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4, which every review I have seen or read simply adores. Many have described it as the best Lambo yet, as well as the first truly Driver-Friendly Lamborghini. Also, it just looks amazing

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5553/15156024316_c15f115410_h.jpgDo you like the new Lamborghini Huracan? by Ted 7, on Flickr

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5574/15301267762_6b48b13a48_h.jpgLamborghini Huracan by Ted 7, on Flickr

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2935/14450234589_81d20928d2_k.jpgHuracán by Daniel Stocker, on Flickr

Theres just not a bad angle on it. The stats are even better.

Engine: 5.2L V10 (No Turbos!!)
Horsepower: 610 (AWD)
Top Speed: 202 mph
0-60: 2.5 Seconds
Quarter Mile: 10.4 Seconds
Price: Starting at $240,000 (Good Value for these stats)

Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/lamborghini/huracan

According to the reviews, it has the smoothest gear changes of any prior Lambo, and it can corner like nothing else as well. Heres to hoping the 2016 Version doesn't change anything too much!

Can't wait for the Spyder Version to hit the roads!

What are your car world updates?

29er
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 980
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
I'll start off expressing my amazement, at the 2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4, which every review I have seen or read simply adores. Many have described it as the best Lambo yet, as well as the first truly Driver-Friendly Lamborghini. Also, it just looks amazing

She's a beauty, however, I don't really care about things that I can't afford.


Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
Can't wait for the Spyder Version to hit the roads!

I can't wait for the gas to drop below $2.50!  
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:18 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
Lamborghini Huracán

I'm a huge car guy, but I just can't conjure up much excitement for Ferraris or Lamborghinis personally. I think these days they're built more for the kind of person more interested in parking it in front of some expensive restaurant/club/hotel than actually driving it. From a driver's perspective, give me a Porsche 911 GT3 instead; it is for all intents and purposes as fast as either the Ferrari 488 or the Huracan, but you could have two GT3s for the money you'd spend on either of the other two. Plus, if I had the money I could walk into a Porsche dealership, plop down the $150k, spec it in nuclear green with black wheels and have it in my garage within three to six months. Just try and do that at a Ferrari dealership, where as far as I can tell they're only interested in selling cars to the "right" people, and oh by the way you're on a 30-month waiting list.

Even that example doesn't exactly light my pants on fire, because I'm not really a huge fan of the 991; older 911s (especially air-cooled 911s) are far more my style. I better find some money and act fast because their prices (apart from the weediest G-Series) are in what can only be described as a bubble seemingly big enough to rival the Dutch Tulip Mania. Actually, there are a ton of German cars riding that wave these days; E30 M3s are skyrocketing (though the 190E Cosworth isn't...yet), an Audi Sport Quattro recently sold at auction for over a million dollars, Merc 500Es are heading well north of $50k...hell, even the rotten old '68 2002 I rescued from the junkyard eight years ago for $800 and am in the process of restoring is probably pushing five digits now.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12191
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:24 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
From a driver's perspective, give me a Porsche 911 GT3 instead; it is for all intents and purposes as fast as either the Ferrari 488 or the Huracan, but you could have two GT3s for the money you'd spend on either of the other two.

No it's not, it's slower in every respect to either of these two cars.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
E30 M3s are skyrocketing

The problem with these (I've been looking) is finding one which hasn't been molestered with go faster bits.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
though the 190E Cosworth

Tha standard car hasn't but the EVO II and III models can't be found for love or money.
 
MrChips
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:20 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
No it's not, it's slower in every respect to either of these two cars.

You've fallen into the trap that catches basically every car enthusiast. Let me tell you something; tenths of a second are meaningless when it comes to performance stats. In fact, whole seconds can be equally meaningless.

The 991 GT3 does 0-100 km/h in 3.3 seconds, while the 488 does it in 3.0 flat. That sounds like a lot, right? It isn't. Assuming this ideal drag race took place, the 488's rear wheel would be in line with the 991 GT3's front wheel - a difference of about 4 metres or so; not very much indeed. And that's even before we get to Ferrari's practice of sending ringers to perfoamce tests.

Now let's apply that to the real world, where driver skill, whether one driver is a skinny git or a fat bugger, reaction time, tire temperature and condition, engine temperatures and condition, suspension condition and probably a hundred other things will slow one car down compared to the other. All of a sudden, that third of a second in a drag race or the second or two difference around a track just doesn't matter. And this is the problem with literally every car manufacturer in the world in this game; they cater to idiots who only look at the numbers and don't care about anything other than "my number is the biggest/smallest". Yeah it looks good on the spec sheet but it doesn't mean a damned thing in the real world. And let's not even get to Nurburgring lap times, which are even more irrelevant. Tell me, if Car A goes three seconds per lap faster than Car B, what was the weather like for their runs? The track temperature? Does one driver struggle a bit with Bergwerk and the other doesn't? Three seconds over a lap of the Nurburgring amounts to 0.14 seconds difference per kilometre, which is basically nothing.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
sevenheavy
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:39 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
You've fallen into the trap that catches basically every car enthusiast. Let me tell you something; tenths of a second are meaningless when it comes to performance stats. In fact, whole seconds can be equally meaningless.

They aren't meaningless at all.

All things being equal (driver, road and weather conditions etc.), a car that is 1/10th faster to 60 is just that. It will get to 60mph first. Small differences do matter. Of course, you can make claims that Ferrari or anyone else is manipulating the system but claims like that are the ones that actually are meaningless unless you have a source or facts to prove it.
Of course, a slower car could very well be quicker on the day, but only if influenced by external factors

F1 teams (and many other racing formulas) constantly strive for improvements of tenths or even hundredths of a second.1/10th of a second is often the difference between qualifying 1st or 6th and races have been one with such tiny margins.

I agree that faster is not always better, that handling and balance play a huge part (as does the driver) but to write off performance figures as meaningless is ridiculous.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
diverted
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
I'm a huge car guy, but I just can't conjure up much excitement for Ferraris or Lamborghinis personally. I think these days they're built more for the kind of person more interested in parking it in front of some expensive restaurant/club/hotel than actually driving it.

x2. Aside from the odd "cool person" at a track day, most people who buy these cars are knobs who sit them in the garage except when they want to roll up somewhere and look cool. I'd wager 90% of these cars only ever see redline at idle in a parking lot.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 5):
They aren't meaningless at all.

All things being equal (driver, road and weather conditions etc.), a car that is 1/10th faster to 60 is just that. It will get to 60mph first. Small differences do matter. Of course, you can make claims that Ferrari or anyone else is manipulating the system but claims like that are the ones that actually are meaningless unless you have a source or facts to prove it.
Of course, a slower car could very well be quicker on the day, but only if influenced by external factors

Depends. On the street? Absolutely meaningless. On public roads anything more than say 300hp is realistically meaningless. Because you'll never be able to push the limits of the car. On the street I'd probably honestly rather have an FR-S. Light, nimble, will slide around at legal speeds....

On a race track, heck, a tenth of a second is an eternity. However, again, I'm sure 90% of these cars will never see a track. Most probably won't ever see 20,000 miles in their life times. It's a shame, because these cars were meant to be driven.

But hey, as long as idiots will keep paying out the nose to be able to brag that their car is 1/10 of a second quicker to 60 than their friends, they'll keep selling, even if they're not a skilled enough driver to come close to being able to realize the performance of the car.

On a side note, the odd time you'll get one of these guys out trying to track their 911/458/Gallardo, and they seem to often end up backwards because they lack throttle control or a fundamental understanding of driving dynamics, lines through corners, braking points etc. Particularly now with DSG/PDK/etc transmissions.

Now, watching one of these cars getting flung around by a skilled driver....there's nothing like it.


Currently, my DD is a Infiiniti G35 6MT sport pack. A few light mods, nothing crazy (intake, Stillen catback, upgraded rotors and pads on the factory Brembo calipers. Hopefully headers and coilovers come spring, boost in a few years if I hold on to it)

As I'm in Canada, she's going to be put away to hibernate in a few weeks, and I haven't even started looking for a winter beater yet. I'll probably end up with a $500 Mazda Protege or Honda Civic, though I always try to get my hands on something relatively unique. Issue with this is balancing the uniqueness with something reliable, as being outside in the winter wrenching sucks!!

EDIT: The car that's currently got me...the new Alfa Giulia...I'll take one in blue please...http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--4EjTpRX8--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1311452662575425057.jpg
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Ni2Ixzmx--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1433404411090488391.jpg

[Edited 2015-09-17 08:34:46]
 
sevenheavy
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):

I agree that once you get to a certain amount of power in a car it's all academic in terms of ability to realise its potential on the road.

However, the context given, and that I was replying to suggested that tenths of a second (and more!) were statistically meaningless. That's simply not true. Statistical and usable performance are totally different things.

Even 300hp is probably too much on the road. In the right car half that is plenty  

I also agree on the Alfa. Stunning car!
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
na
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:43 pm

My dreamcar at the moment is the Rolls-Royce Wraith. It must be in a two tone colour scheme. Awesome and unique. Cant afford it, though I own an old RR. I just love classic burr walnut and leather.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
I'll start off expressing my amazement, at the 2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4

I did considerably more than 300 kph in a Huracan last winter, however as a passenger. Fantastic car indeed. Insane speed and, even more so acceleration, surprisingly comfortable, and well built. The same could be said about the Ferrari Italia, however, I did like the Lambo´s interior more.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
Can't wait for the Spyder Version to hit the roads!

To make you jealous, I had an invitation to the Lambo Huracan Spyder launch party on the IAA tomorrow evening. Sadly I have no time.

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):
EDIT: The car that's currently got me...the new Alfa Giulia...I'll take one in blue please...

Agree with the paint. Normally I like red more, but not this time. The black rims on the red car are truly awful. However, as a diehard, decade-long Alfista, I like the design of my current everyday transport 159 more, Giulia´s predecessor. The Giulia is too much in your face for me, it sacrifices elegance for sportiness. The standard models will look better to my eyes I am sure, but still, I am sure I will be missing something I found on the Alfas I owned so far.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 1):
She's a beauty, however, I don't really care about things that I can't afford.

Why? Those are usually the most interesting things. If you dont dream, no dream will come true.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 1):
I can't wait for the gas to drop below $2.50

Get out of California? Heck, I saw $1.89 in Texas the other day. Even here in Detroit, it's right around $2.40

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Kiwirob
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):

You've fallen into the trap that catches basically every car enthusiast.

No I haven't. On the road it takes a 911 Turbo to walk a 458, just watch some of the GTboard.com videos on youtube and you'll see GT3's don't stand a chance against a 458.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
The 991 GT3 does 0-100 km/h in 3.3 seconds, while the 488 does it in 3.0 flat. That sounds like a lot, right? It isn't. Assuming this ideal drag race took place, the 488's rear wheel would be in line with the 991 GT3's front wheel - a difference of about 4 metres or so; not very much indeed. And that's even before we get to Ferrari's practice of sending ringers to perfoamce tests.

I'm not interested in 0-100 times, it's in gear performance that really counts. If you watch the GTboard videos it's owners cars not Ferrari supplied ringers in the races. The Porsche is better value for money but as a long term investment with much higher retained value the Ferrari comes out on top.

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):
As I'm in Canada, she's going to be put away to hibernate in a few weeks, and I haven't even started looking for a winter beater yet.

Why wouldn't you drive the Nissan in winter? Unless it's an exotic or a classic car putting any other car away for winter is pointless, you might as well sell it.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 7):

I also agree on the Alfa. Stunning car!

The Quadrifoglio model has 503hp so too much for your 300hp is enough mantra.
 
diverted
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
Why wouldn't you drive the Nissan in winter? Unless it's an exotic or a classic car putting any other car away for winter is pointless, you might as well sell it.

Honestly, I know it sounds dumb, but for my current lifestyle, it's the perfect car. Plus the lady i bought it from had never so much as let it see rain. I'm not that particular, but they're starting to get up there in age, and it's getting hard to find a good one. Mine's also quite low mileage (for a 11 year old car) as a result of spending so much of its prior life in the garage. I spent the better part of two months to find the one I wanted, optioned the way I wanted. Picky? Yeah. Unreasonably so? Probably.
I don't intend to keep this as any sort of investment. I just enjoy the car and as far as I'm concerned I don't care that it spends half the year stored.

Also, driving it in winter would require me picking up some wheels and snow tires, and honestly for what they're worth I'll just buy a beater. Grab something for $500, put another $200-300 into it, and either sell it in spring and try and break even or scrap it for $250. Doesn't much matter.

Also, a big factor, is that so far I haven't had anyone else work on it. Don't know if you're familiar with Ottawa, but there's an unreasonable obsession with salting the roads here. Working on it myself, I'm always glad that I'm not dealing with rusted or corroded bolts and parts all the time. And if I do throw coilovers on it, I don't want the threads seizing up from corrosion.

I know it sounds strange, especially given that I'm sure there's a number of people on here with Ferraris/Astons/Masers/Audi RS cars, and other expensive vehicles. Unfortunately, I'm a broke 25 year old airline OCC employee trying to get by, and it's a nice enough car for now. RWD, manual, ~285-300hp. Handles alright (though coilovers and sway bars would be realllyyy nice) quick enough for daily driving, reasonably fast enough to have a bit of fun here and there without getting into too much trouble, and the 6th gear is great for highway cruising.

I also have a 1989 Nissan 240sx, which has been an ongoing project/headache/rustbucket for a while. Trust me when I say I don't want the G35 to end up in the same situation. The 240sx is headed to life as a track car though, if I ever get around to putting a motor in it.  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 7):

I also agree on the Alfa. Stunning car!

The Quadrifoglio model has 503hp so too much for your 300hp is enough mantra.

I was the one who originally made the 300hp comment. While more than 300hp is entirely unnecessary for street driving, I can't say that I will complain about more ponies under the right foot. It's when I hear people getting into a pissing contest at the local coffee shop on a Saturday evening about their supercars. It's great that you bought the Scuderia model because it's lighter and has more power. Too bad none of it matters when all you do is putt around with your old lady.
 
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Aesma
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:43 pm

I have been liking the 911 for more than 15 years now (half my life) so I'd say it's my all time favorite. I'm even starting to like the 996 when I see one can be had for around 20000€ (but of course maintenance is a bitch).

As an F1 fan I'm more of a light is right guy though, and after I buy a house my next goal is to buy an Opel Speedster or a Lotus Elise.

Ideally I'd like to have a track car, in the form of a Radical SR8 (one can dream !).

At work a colleague is a leading member of the French Porsche 924-944-968 club, and has 5 or 6 924s and 944s, including a fushia/pink convertible 944 S2 and a rare 944 turbo of some unknown origin (a unique model according to Porsche) with enlarged plastic fenders and a boosted engine (280hp). With his club they do lots of track days with the 924s. He's trying to recruit me, and the fact that prices for any old Porsche seem to only go up is a bit of an incentive I must say.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
29erUSA187
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):
EDIT: The car that's currently got me...the new Alfa Giulia...I'll take one in blue please...

Yes, thats a gorgeous car, however, there is another car in the Entry-Luxury Sedan segment that I prefer

The Jaguar XE, which is essentially a Jaguar XF/XJ paired down in size and power to compete against the BMW 3-Series. With all the new entrants, and Audi/Mercedes constantly improving their brands, IMHO, BMW will have to do something special to the 3-Series to preserve it's dominance in the market.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/456/18292044074_fad38a0792_k.jpg2016 Jaguar XE New Design and Specs Engine by isabelle morre, on Flickr

2017 Jaguar XE Exterior, Interior and Price by isabelle morre, on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/440/20260824380_ca5ad1f9dd_k.jpgMHD LLC Unveils the New Jaguar XE in the Sultanate of Oman by Jaguar MENA, on Flickr
 
sevenheavy
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):

Firstly, it wasn't my "mantra"!

Secondly, acknowledging that you really can't (safely) extract the full potential of a Hypercar on a public road in no way precludes someone from appreciating or buying them. As you know, these these cars aren't just bought to be driven at the limit. The vast majority of them will never be driven that way their entire lives. It's about the looks, the craftsmanship, the heritage and the overall experience.

I seriously doubt that many supercars/Hypercars (not really sure where one ends and the other begins!) are bought because of their outright horsepower, either in isolation or when compared to their peers. Most owners know they won't ever push their cars. Doesn't stop them buying them.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:23 pm

You know there is also a new XF.

https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/1170x1170/44/475574616-1427306083644.jpg

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/content/image/2/0/2016_jaguar_xf_overseas_18_1-0401-mc:819x819.jpg

http://teknikensvarld.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/jaguar-xf-s-2016-08.jpg

And an F-Pace (stupid name IMO)

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/362/280/7/S3622807/slug/l/05-jaguar-f-pace-frankfurt-1.jpg

http://www.bilnyheter.no/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/13237-thumb.jpg

Jags done a lot recently, not a many people give them the credit they deserve, since 2013 Jag have introduced the F-Type, XE, XF and F-Pace, the oldest car in the range is now the 2009 released XJ.
 
na
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 13):
Yes, thats a gorgeous car, however, there is another car in the Entry-Luxury Sedan segment that I prefer

The Jaguar XE

Great car, very competent and all-round as good as the best, less individual German, more common alternatives. I was invited to a testdrive event in May. I was very much impressed, even more by driving it than looking at it. Even with a mid-range engine this car is as quick and lighthanded as a sportscar, but at the same time comfortable like a limo one class above. I cant remember to have experienced a better driving position than in the XE. However, I would have wished for some classic Jaguar-style wood surfaces inside, sadly you´ll find impractical, dust-collecting and scratch-attracting glossy black surfaces instead. Still a great job from Jaguar to create what essentially is a better 3-series. It very much depends on the body color though. I got to see about ten cars. In white or silver it does look pretty ordinary, but the blue shown above is cool on the road, as is dark british green, and brownish grey.

A young secondhand XE is my current favorite if I have to replace my Alfa in a few years time.
 
Redd
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4

Lovely car, but I really hate the trend with supercars not being available with a manual gearbox.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
The problem with these (I've been looking) is finding one which hasn't been molestered with go faster bits.

My friend is selling his right now, 100% stock and original. Can put you in touch if you like.
 
MrChips
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 5):
F1 teams (and many other racing formulas) constantly strive for improvements of tenths or even hundredths of a second.1/10th of a second is often the difference between qualifying 1st or 6th and races have been one with such tiny margins.

Formula 1 and their practices are totally irrelevant to anything on the road today. In fact I would go as far as to say it's almost irrelevant to any other racing series as well. Unless your name is Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton, chasing tenths of a second in your car is a meaningless venture. Even in autocross/Solo, which can get down into ten-thousandths of a second-sized margins of victory, there is only so much that the car can provide before you get to the point where a) the cost per tenth becomes totally unreasonable (which happens a lot faster than almost everybody is willing to admit) and b) driver performance becomes the biggest factor.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 5):
. Of course, you can make claims that Ferrari or anyone else is manipulating the system but claims like that are the ones that actually are meaningless unless you have a source or facts to prove it.

Every manufacturer manipulates performance tests, from Ford providing Fusions for a group test that mysteriously had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires on them (backed by the claim that, "well we have a summer tire option for the car and these are technically summer tires!"), to Ferrari sending an entire team of engineers to these tests, and providing one car for handling tests, another for any road component and a third for acceleration testing...to say nothing of the royal stink they kicked up on Top Gear when asked to do a LaFerrari v. P1 v. 918 comparison. If they weren't trying to manipulate the results, they would have said, "yeah, just say when you need the car", nor would they have threatened a LaFerrari owner who was willing to provide his own car to TG by telling him that he would never be allowed to buy a limited-edition Ferrari again.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 7):
However, the context given, and that I was replying to suggested that tenths of a second (and more!) were statistically meaningless. That's simply not true. Statistical and usable performance are totally different things

I was never saying it was statistically meaningless; I was saying that the statistics WERE meaningless. Almost as if on cue, Autoblog published this article yesterday that just came up in my feed:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/16/f...otive-enthusiasts-tell-themselves/

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
No I haven't. On the road it takes a 911 Turbo to walk a 458, just watch some of the GTboard.com videos on youtube and you'll see GT3's don't stand a chance against a 458.

Their tests are, arguably, even less controlled than your average car mag's performance testing.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
At work a colleague is a leading member of the French Porsche 924-944-968 club, and has 5 or 6 924s and 944s, including a fushia/pink convertible 944 S2 and a rare 944 turbo of some unknown origin (a unique model according to Porsche) with enlarged plastic fenders and a boosted engine (280hp). With his club they do lots of track days with the 924s. He's trying to recruit me, and the fact that prices for any old Porsche seem to only go up is a bit of an incentive I must say.

All I'm going to say is, get on it soon. The dirty little secret of the 944 was that it is more than capable of holding its own against its contemporary 911 models (except for the Turbo). With the rise in 911 prices getting to the point of absurdity, I feel that the 944, which is a huge bargain in comparison, will soon start to follow the 911 in that respect. Specifically, if you can find a late Turbo, a Turbo S or an S2, those will go up the most. Also, the 968 should behave largely the same, but is a far better car than the 944 in almost every respect.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 13):
Jaguar XE

Now that's a nice car. I'm a huge BMW fan, and when I consider how disappointing the F3x 3/4-Series is and how the XE has been received this far, it really makes me wonder if I want to go British in the future.

Quoting Redd (Reply 17):

My friend is selling his right now, 100% stock and original. Can put you in touch if you like.

That's not 100% stock technically; those are Alpina wheels or knockoffs, for one.  Silly

[Edited 2015-09-17 12:25:10]
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Redd
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 18):
That's not 100% stock technically; those are Alpina wheels or knockoffs, for one.

lol,   didn't notice that. I know he put quite a bit of work to bring it back to stock, some kid had it before with farty exhaust, lowered springs and some cheap cold air intake.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12191
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 17):
My friend is selling his right now, 100% stock and original. Can put you in touch if you like.

I would be down there tomorrow to have a look but the missus would kill me. Does he have the original wheels as well as the Alpina's?

Quoting MrChips (Reply 18):

Their tests are, arguably, even less controlled than your average car mag's performance testing.

Which I think makes them far more interesting.
 
User avatar
UltimateDelta
Posts: 2221
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:56 am

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Thread starter):
Many have described it as the best Lambo yet

Definitely the better-looking one at the moment, that's for sure. Not that I'd ever be in the market for one, but even better than that is their Asterion concept.

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):
The car that's currently got me...the new Alfa Giulia...I'll take one in blue please...

I've never particularly like the Alfa front end design, but aside from that, I agree- it's a looker!

Meanwhile, I found myself a new car over the summer in the form of a 2011 Subaru Impreza in Outback Sport trim- can't wait to test out its winter chops soon!
Midwest Airlines- 1984-2010
 
diverted
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 18):
Every manufacturer manipulates performance tests, from Ford providing Fusions for a group test that mysteriously had Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires on them (backed by the claim that, "well we have a summer tire option for the car and these are technically summer tires!"), to Ferrari sending an entire team of engineers to these tests, and providing one car for handling tests, another for any road component and a third for acceleration testing...to say nothing of the royal stink they kicked up on Top Gear when asked to do a LaFerrari v. P1 v. 918 comparison. If they weren't trying to manipulate the results, they would have said, "yeah, just say when you need the car", nor would they have threatened a LaFerrari owner who was willing to provide his own car to TG by telling him that he would never be allowed to buy a limited-edition Ferrari again.

Ferrari are a bunch of c words that I can't write down here. They always send ringers to tests. always. Otherwise they pull an Eric Cartman and "screw you guys I'm going home!"

Quoting MrChips (Reply 18):
Formula 1 and their practices are totally irrelevant to anything on the road today. In fact I would go as far as to say it's almost irrelevant to any other racing series as well. Unless your name is Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton, chasing tenths of a second in your car is a meaningless venture. Even in autocross/Solo, which can get down into ten-thousandths of a second-sized margins of victory, there is only so much that the car can provide before you get to the point where a) the cost per tenth becomes totally unreasonable (which happens a lot faster than almost everybody is willing to admit) and b) driver performance becomes the biggest factor.

Audi came out earlier this week saying essentially the same thing. There's next to no relevance to anything else, and it's a sport thats in a downward spiral, whereas WEC is on the up and up. And provides WAY more flexibility. (Gas cars in the same class as diesels, different ideas surrounding energy recovery systems, engine placement-even if Nissan can't make their car fast)

Essentially the underlying tone I got was "why would we throw money away for the sake of it, when we can actually push the envelope and have things trickle down to road cars" which is totally valid. F1 isn't the hotbed of innovation like it used to be. And as soon as someone does do something innovative it gets banned. Spend tons of money to try and go faster, and then they say not allowed anymore (F duct, blown diffusers, etc etc)

One car company I've been enamoured by for the past few years is Koenigsegg. Wasn't a huge fan of the CCR when it first came out, but since the Agera I've loved everything they've done. The Regera and One:1(1360hp/1 megawatt!!!!) are epic. And the tech that's coming from those Swedes is crazy!! Camless engines(still in development) carbon fibre wheels, triplex suspension, 3d printed parts, the way their doors open, how the roof fits in the front under the hood etc.

Christian is a visionary. IIRC he made his money patenting flex fuel, and makes some royalties from every flex fuel vehicle sold.

Enough talk.. on to pics!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Koenigsegg-Regera-5.jpg
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Koenigsegg-Regera-1.jpg
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2015-Koenigsegg-One1-201-876x535.jpg

and a vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02K1CaUpAJA

Crazy how it only requires tiny steering corrections under both heavy acceleration and heavy braking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj3Oo-_jecg

Racing a Veyron from a roll in the standard Agera (3:00 is about where the racing starts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SywqgH7n-5g

Koenigsegg's stability control (1:40 is about where it is)
 
IH8BY
Posts: 761
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:27 pm

My current toy. Pretty entertaining and makes me smile. I tend to go for quite 'grown-up' cars, but figured I probably ought to have something a little more silly (laddish?) before I hit 30.

Peugeot 208 GTi, 1.6 200bhp turbo, fast enough.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/goldfishfood/IMG_7634a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/goldfishfood/IMG_7684a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/goldfishfood/IMG_7989a.jpg
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
MrChips
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 22):
F1 isn't the hotbed of innovation like it used to be.

Has F1 ever been a hotbed of innovation though? When you look back on almost half of the sport's history, just about every car in the field used a Cosworth DFV. And the innovations that came out of F1 have either been totally irrelevant to road cars (basically everything aerodynamic) or already in use in one form or another (turbocharging, active suspension, traction control, etc). About the only thing that F1 has led the way with is the use of lightweight materials, which is admittedly big but not really enough to call the sport a hotbed of innovation.

And if you want to look at leading the way with lightweight materials, look at that Koenigsegg you posted. I've already made my position on supercars known, but I make an exception for Koenigsegg (because of the out-of-the-box thinking that goes into them) and Pagani, because they are as much a piece of mobile art as they are a car.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12191
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 22):
Camless engines(still in development)

Their engine is still based on the Ford 4.0 quad cam block, amazing isn't it. Camless engines are nothing new, a lot of the power plants on ships are camless.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12191
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:02 pm

I could go one of these. I'd like a motorbike but wife put her foot down, this could have wife acceptance factor.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2363055!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/honda-project-2-4.jpg

I just figure out if you can stuff a second person on the other side, it looks like the cover could be removed and a second seat installed but I can't find out any info about this aspect of the design.
 
diverted
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 25):
Their engine is still based on the Ford 4.0 quad cam block, amazing isn't it. Camless engines are nothing new, a lot of the power plants on ships are camless.

I was under the impression the new motors were a full clean sheet Koenigsegg design.

And although there may be camless engines in ships, their application in automobiles is a new innovation, with huge potential for efficiency and power gains. And I think it's CRAZY that in this day and age of HUGE manufacturer's like GM/Toyota/BMW etc. it's the small company from Sweden working out of an old air force hangar that is consistently turning out innovation after innovation and putting the hurt on anything in their path. I love the way they operate, how they're always looking at their last project and thinking "hmm...what can we improve, even if only marginally?"
 
Redd
Posts: 984
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:51 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
I would be down there tomorrow to have a look but the missus would kill me. Does he have the original wheels as well as the Alpina's?

No originals unfortunately..
 
MrChips
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 26):

Supposedly they designed the capability to put a seat on the other side (presumably it was designed for RHD and LHD markets, so a passenger seat should be a possibility).

That said, I can't ever see that thing passing side impact testing or being legal in by any motorsport sanctioning body's rules.

Quoting diverted (Reply 27):
And although there may be camless engines in ships, their application in automobiles is a new innovation, with huge potential for efficiency and power gains. And I think it's CRAZY that in this day and age of HUGE manufacturer's like GM/Toyota/BMW etc. it's the small company from Sweden working out of an old air force hangar that is consistently turning out innovation after innovation and putting the hurt on anything in their path. I love the way they operate, how they're always looking at their last project and thinking "hmm...what can we improve, even if only marginally?"

Culture, mostly. Big car companies get hung up on doing things the "x Way", and if something doesn't jive with the image they see of themselves, it's quickly strangled in the crib. Koenigsegg doesn't have that cultural inertia to overcome; in fact, I get the impression they run their company in such a way that sitting on your butt and doing the same thing over and over again because that's what we've always done is frowned upon.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
29erUSA187
Topic Author
Posts: 1277
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RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:04 am

Quick Buyer related question for any Audi enthusiasts.

My family has had a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited Edition that we have used as a utility car for a long time, mostly for towing small boats. (Trailer (with boats) is way under 2000 lbs. The car is aging and we expect it to croak soon, so we are looking at replacements in the $25,000-$40,000 range.

So far, we have come up with a few candidates.

1. Mazda CX-5

2. Volkswagen Tiguan

3. Subaru Outback 3.6L

4. Audi Q3.

We lease all our cars, (with exception of the one in need of replacement) so we are planning on leasing. We had to discount the BMW X3 and X1 (we love BMW's in our family) because the only tow hitches featured can be installed after market, which is not suitable with the terms of lease for most car manufacturers. However, I could not find a good online resource as to whether it comes with the option of a pre-installed tow hitch. Does anyone know if it does, because so far, this is the best option we have, and the best looking option.
 
diverted
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 29):
Culture, mostly. Big car companies get hung up on doing things the "x Way", and if something doesn't jive with the image they see of themselves, it's quickly strangled in the crib. Koenigsegg doesn't have that cultural inertia to overcome; in fact, I get the impression they run their company in such a way that sitting on your butt and doing the same thing over and over again because that's what we've always done is frowned upon.

Very true. There's a really good article written a few years ago about the Pontiac Aztek, and how this line of thinking resulted in that awful thing reaching production.

Quote:
One guy I informally interviewed about how the Aztek happened was one of the top guys on the project. And this guy, he looks at me and he says, "I'm proud of it." Proud of the Aztek? "Yup. That was the best program we ever did at GM. We made all our internal goals, we made the timing, and I'm really proud of the part I played in it." He had tears in his eyes. It was almost tragic. Everybody wanted to will this thing to succeed, and it didn't work. All the emotional commitment and pride in the program was that it achieved all its internal objectives. And it was probably one of the great defeats in his life, or in his career.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...tory-of-the-pontiac-aztek-debacle/
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2337
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:36 am

I was just thinking the other day that in the North American market there are very few good looking cars currently in production. I struggle to think of five I like. Even Mercedes are beginning to look like Hyundai's and you can hardly tell a BMW 5 series apart from a 3, which used to be a looker in its day. The only North American cars I truly like are the Mustang and Charger/Challenger (though still not quite sure about the recent facelift).

As an aside, I was working on my friends 2014 Hyundai Elantra yesterday, and it is surprisingly very well built and roomy. I did drive one a little while back as it was very quiet too, not bad for a cheap a to b car.

Quoting diverted (Reply 6):
.the new Alfa Giulia.

Wow - that is gorgeous, wish they would sell them here, see they do a wagon too.

I had a 2002 147 2.0 Lusso, that was a nice car and incredible value for money compared to a Golf or 3 series.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
I'm a huge car guy, but I just can't conjure up much excitement for Ferraris or Lamborghinis personally

   +1. I mean, I appreciate them and will look at one when I see one (which is pretty common around here...) but even if I won the lotto I dont think I would buy one. That being said, my friend has an Audi R8, the Lambo heritage is clear and that is one amazing car, I have fallen in love, though it is totally impractical for me.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 1):
I can't wait for the gas to drop below $2.50!

We are excited it dropped to $1.13 a liter here!!

Quoting na (Reply 8):
My dreamcar at the moment is the Rolls-Royce Wraith

I import these so see them up close on a regular basis. The Wraith is by far the least ugly current RR, but that ugly front end will never make up for that interior. The Bentley on the other hand...

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
And an F-Pace (stupid name IMO)

Agree, that is going to get some nicknames... not a bad looking vehicle though if you like that kind of thing. Sure it will be a hit round here.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
na
Posts: 9695
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 30):
So far, we have come up with a few candidates.

1. Mazda CX-5

2. Volkswagen Tiguan

3. Subaru Outback 3.6L

4. Audi Q3.

I have been to the Frankfurt IAA show. The CX-5 is nice but not exactly fresh anymore. The Tiguan seems to be the best for me, the new model presented a few days ago is a vast improvement and on top does not look las boring as all the average midsize SUV crap out there.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
Wow - that is gorgeous, wish they would sell them here, see they do a wagon too.

The Giulia disappointed me. They had four standing there, and the stand was so overcrowded you could hardly see them. Very likely its technically more competent than its forerunners, but the styling? No, not for me. Were are the distinctive, unique and elegant lines of the 159 and 156? Gone, the Giulia has too many overtones of cars from other brands, the 3-series to name just one, and it does look too brutal for me.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
I import these so see them up close on a regular basis. The Wraith is by far the least ugly current RR, but that ugly front end will never make up for that interior. The Bentley on the other hand...

I have been on the RR and Bentley stand saturday and sat in all cars, just not the new Dawn convertible, which was off limits. I am not of your opinion, I think RR does a better job nowadays than Bentley. The SUV Bentayga is as hideous as on pictures, and even in the interior less classy than a RR, despite the 150k Breitling with diamonds they put inside. Stupidly nouveau riche. The top model Mulsanne, while I generally like it, does not really have the class of the Ghost, if you go from one to the other you will notice it. I like the basic Bentley, the GT, but in Frankfurt they only had a GTC Speed there with a boring black interior looking much cheaper than the car actually is. I am a bit with you as to the modern RR grille. I think they should better stay with tradition.
 
CXB77L
Posts: 2612
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
You've fallen into the trap that catches basically every car enthusiast. Let me tell you something; tenths of a second are meaningless when it comes to performance stats. In fact, whole seconds can be equally meaningless.

While I agree with you, I think there are different kinds of enthusiasts. There are those who like cars which are fast (enough) but are extremely nimble, making for fun cornering (e.g., hot hatches); there are those who like cars that are extremely fast off the mark (such as a Nissan GT-R); and there are those that enjoy taming wild beasts like any AMG Black Series. Personally, I prefer the former, but I can also see the attraction of the other types of cars.

And then there's my favourite types: grand tourers, 'sleepers' and ultra-luxury sedans. For me personally, I like cars with what I call a Jekyll and Hyde personality - a car that oozes sheer opulence inside with the finest craftsmanship and refinement, but has a big, 12-cylinder engine under the bonnet for effortless power when I need it - enough power to embarrass many lesser 'sports' cars.

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 23):
Peugeot 208 GTi

If I may ask, have you driven a 205 GTi? How does it compare?

I've borrowed a friend's 205 GTi for a drive once, many years ago. It drove like it was on rails - definitely one of the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel, driving it up into the hills in Perth.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
The Wraith is by far the least ugly current RR, but that ugly front end will never make up for that interior. The Bentley on the other hand

I'm not sure I agree about the Wraith's front end. While it's a far cry from a traditional Rolls-Royce front end, I think it's a fine modern interpretation of it. Personally, I prefer the Ghost, I think that's what a 21st century Rolls-Royce should look like.

I also like Bentleys. The Continental GT and the Flying Spur are my favourites out of the Bentley range.

[Edited 2015-09-21 08:29:44]
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
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boilergo
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:23 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:18 pm

I have always been into Japanese products, both performance and everyday drivers. My two favorite "fast" cars have always been the GT-R and NSX...and now that the NSX is being relaunched I love it even more. My spouse and I love the GT-R so much we decided to buy a new one a few years ago!



I will be very interested to see what the NSX is like. Hopefully Mega Millions comes through for me on this one so I can get one in every color!

NSX-best.jpg" width="400" height="267" border="0"/>

I've always been a pickup fan as well. Once the new Titan is out for awhile and the teething period is over, I imagine I will be trading in the 2014 Accord for one of these.

 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12191
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting MrChips (Reply 29):
That said, I can't ever see that thing passing side impact testing or being legal in by any motorsport sanctioning body's rules.

If Can Am can sell the Spyder then I see Honda having no trouble with this.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2788
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:38 pm

I've always enjoyed learning about cars, when I was little my kindergarten teacher complained that my questions about cars made her feel dumb.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
Even Mercedes are beginning to look like Hyundai's and you can hardly tell

Agreed. And even moreso now than Hyundai is chasing the Ford Fusion and Subaru Legacy with their styling and omnipresent hexagon grill.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
BMW 5 series apart from a 3, which used to be a looker in its day.

I spent the summer of 2007 in Europe and even then the difference from a 3 to a 5 was difficult to tell unless the car was parked, and close.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 32):
The only North American cars I truly like are the Mustang and Charger/Challenger (though still not quite sure about the recent facelift).

The new Mustang is atrocious, looking like kind of like a Birkenstock in profile.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 30):
Quick Buyer related question for any Audi enthusiasts.

My family has had a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited Edition that we have used as a utility car for a long time, mostly for towing small boats. (Trailer (with boats) is way under 2000 lbs. The car is aging and we expect it to croak soon, so we are looking at replacements in the $25,000-$40,000 range.

So far, we have come up with a few candidates.

1. Mazda CX-5

2. Volkswagen Tiguan

3. Subaru Outback 3.6L

4. Audi Q3.

We lease all our cars, (with exception of the one in need of replacement) so we are planning on leasing. We had to discount the BMW X3 and X1 (we love BMW's in our family) because the only tow hitches featured can be installed after market, which is not suitable with the terms of lease for most car manufacturers. However, I could not find a good online resource as to whether it comes with the option of a pre-installed tow hitch. Does anyone know if it does, because so far, this is the best option we have, and the best looking option.

The Audi Q3 and Tiguan are essentially the same car, and both are long in the tooth, but the 2.0L TSI is a strong engine. It's looking like we won't get the new Tiguan in NA until almost 2017, so that may not be ideal if newness is your thing. Subaru IMHO is significantly overrated, and initial quality surveys in the last year have actually put them down in Chrysler/Fiat range for number of complaints. The Mazda is a great car from what I noticed on a test-drive. If just a utility car is what you want, I would recommend a used Ford Explorer (before they ruined it for the new CUV model) or small pickup truck.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
If Can Am can sell the Spyder then I see Honda having no trouble with this.

I'd really love to see the Project 2&4 sold to the public since sometimes an S2000 is just too much car, but the Can Am Spyder is considered a motorcycle in most states as is the Polaris Slingshot.

The regulators are too busy letting GM get away with murder...
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2882
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: The Car Thread: Part 1

Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:41 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 30):
2. Volkswagen Tiguan

I have one, I have to say it's been a great truck so far, no issues, good gas mileage, can go like a bat out of hell and it is comfortable.

The dealer tow package isn't exactly cheap and you're limited to 2200 lbs.

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