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einsteinboricua
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McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:25 pm

Source

Quote:
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy has dropped out of the race to succeed Speaker John Boehner, a shocking move that throws the House into chaos.

The move came without warning as House Republicans were in a closed-door meeting to select their nominee for speaker, with McCarthy's wife and kids in the room. Boehner subsequently postponed the vote.

This is the gift that keeps on giving. Rewarded in 2014 with the largest majority for their party since 1928 and they can't get their act together. How are they expected to govern if their leadership is weak and, currently, non-existent? Right now, no successor is in sight. Jason Chaffetz from Utah threw his hat in the ring, but no one is sure if he'd get the necessary 218 votes from the Republican caucus to be named as Speaker. Other Tea Party Republicans threw their hat in as well, but they also don't stand a chance. Even McCarthy wasn't a sure thing if the Freedom Caucus stood united against him (with 40 members, that's enough to deny him the 218 votes needed).

I wonder if moderate Republicans would leave the GOP caucus and join Democrats to create a "coalition-style Speaker" in order to get things done while keeping the extremist right-wing politicians at bay? If it means the House would be back in business without frivolous things, I'm all for it.

One thing is certain: the fact that McCarthy screwed up by revealing the truth about the Benghazi committee and then stepping down from the race means that he didn't misspeak but rather revealed something that should not have been revealed. As punishment, he denied himself a promotion. Anyone who is sure that the Benghazi committee is not for political purposes would have kept going on.

Hopefully, if this coalition scenario I floated happens, they will vote to disband the committee altogether.
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Ken777
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:41 pm

This was one hell of a surprise and it is clear that the radicalized hard right gets full credit/blame.

McCarthy had something like 6 years in Congress and has put in two bills during that time - both to rename federal building in his district.

Jason Chaffetz, who has thrown his hat into the ring has, IIRC, only 4 years in Congress and Daniel Webster trails with two years in Congress. That's one of the problem with the radicalized conservatives - they don't have respected members in the House that has significant experience in Congress as well as leadership in Congress.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I wonder if moderate Republicans would leave the GOP caucus and join Democrats to create a "coalition-style Speaker" in order to get things done while keeping the extremist right-wing politicians at bay?

This would be the best option in terms of what is good for the country. The ability for reasonable men and women to sit down at a table and work out the important issues with all the comedic flapping around by the radicalized conservatives would be great for our country. It would also be good to see these hard righters get bitch slapped down really hard over the next year.
 
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
Jason Chaffetz, who has thrown his hat into the ring has, IIRC, only 4 years in Congress

He first won his seat in the 2008 election cycle so by my math, so he is on his 4th term.
To be Speaker, one should have a little bit of institutional history, which neither McCarthy, Chaffetz, Webster has.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I wonder if moderate Republicans would leave the GOP caucus and join Democrats to create a "coalition-style Speaker" in order to get things done while keeping the extremist right-wing politicians at bay?

This would be the best option in terms of what is good for the country. The ability for reasonable men and women to sit down at a table and work out the important issues with all the comedic flapping around by the radicalized conservatives would be great for our country. It would also be good to see these hard righters get bitch slapped down really hard over the next year.

I like this idea. How about Steny Hoyer from Maryland? I'm hope that Steve "KKK" Scalise will not end up with the position.
 
Ken777
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting 910A (Reply 2):
I'm hope that Steve "KKK" Scalise will not end up with the position.

I believe that this may be the start of the Tea Party breaking off of the GOP, or kicked out of the GOP. When 40 radicalized right wingers can stop the operations of the House and therefore Government we are in for a rough time.

This potential might, I hope, get the non-radicalized, responsible Republicans to move to work with Democrats on reasonable bills, totally discarding the Tea Party. Let the Tea Party break off and do their own thing, and allow responsible politicians work together for the good of the country.

Another hope is that Boehner stays on, with no election for Speaker until after the 2016 Election. Let him kick out the Hastert Rule and bring important issues to the floor. The Tea Party will have him. but he can move forward with the Democrats to get the job done.
 
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:11 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
I believe that this may be the start of the Tea Party breaking off of the GOP, or kicked out of the GOP. When 40 radicalized right wingers can stop the operations of the House and therefore Government we are in for a rough time.

As much as they hate each other, I don't think they'll really drift too far apart. They'll quarrel and be at odds but if they don't have an alliance, it'll mean sure victory for the Democrats
 
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I wonder if moderate Republicans would leave the GOP caucus and join Democrats to create a "coalition-style Speaker" in order to get things done while keeping the extremist right-wing politicians at bay? If it means the House would be back in business without frivolous things, I'm all for it.

As ideal as it might be, I unfortunately do not have a lot of faith in the Democrats' ability to restrain themselves from trying to extract too costly concessions in exchange for their help in countering the toxic influence of the Tea Party.

We are after all talking about the same party that couldn't agree with itself long enough to pass a budget when it controlled Congress and the White House.
 
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:21 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
How are they expected to govern if their leadership is weak and, currently, non-existent?

It exists--the GOP supports all big government causes and spending the Democrats have. THAT is the problem and why more conservative members have clearly made a vocal break with the corrupt establishment Republicans. I'm still trying to see what the problem is there...

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
That's one of the problem with the radicalized conservatives - they don't have respected members in the House that has significant experience in Congress as well as leadership in Congress.

The contrarian argument is that career oligarchs that have no principles except that of feeding big government (see Boehner, John) have zero respect from actual conservatives who, GASP, want to actually reduce the size, scope and spending in DC. That's hardly a radical idea, but for a big lefty like you Ken, it's like showing a vampire a cross.
 
mt99
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:26 pm

The race to the bottom continues.. This mess will mean the election of Madame President Clinton and Vice-President Sanders.

The poor GOP, cant tell its head from its butt
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LAX772LR
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:34 pm

This guy is running for a job called "Speaker," but struggles even worse than GWBush to string together a single coherent sentence. Awesome. Just what we need more of: dumbasses in high-power positions.

The Benghazi revelation, which really wasn't much of a revelation, shows us just what a loose cannon he is.




Quoting slider (Reply 6):
from actual conservatives who, GASP, want to actually reduce the size, scope and spending in DC

But tell us, who are these "actual conservatives" that you speak of? There don't appear to be any.
All that are in government now, support Big Government-- just their own ideological form of it.

The right wingers are no exception: they'll decry education, healthcare, and entitlement programs; but then vote to spend on every military, social "moral," and corporate subsidy bill that comes their way. Without fail.

And one can blame it on "those in Congress" all you want, but at the end of the day, who keeps putting them in there? The buck stops with the electorate.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Another hope is that Boehner stays on, with no election for Speaker until after the 2016 Election. Let him kick out the Hastert Rule and bring important issues to the floor. The Tea Party will have him. but he can move forward with the Democrats to get the job done.

This is floated as a possibility, though unless Democrats decide to back Boehner, a simple motion to vacate the chair will be called and we'd be back to square one.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
As ideal as it might be, I unfortunately do not have a lot of faith in the Democrats' ability to restrain themselves from trying to extract too costly concessions in exchange for their help in countering the toxic influence of the Tea Party.

Democrats would be an uneasy partner and, in exchange for the Gavel, I think they would restrain themselves. We're talking about a party that if the moderate GOP reps decide to NOT support, they go back to the minority. I would like to think they will not ask too much.
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Dreadnought
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
This potential might, I hope, get the non-radicalized, responsible Republicans to move to work with Democrats on reasonable bills, totally discarding the Tea Party.

You mean, you want them to be Democrats. That is exactly the problem with today's GOP - they are too willing to act like Democrats. In his entire tenure as President, Obama has had to issue a grand total of four vetoes. That’s less than every president since Chester A. Arthur (who only served out the remainder of Garfield's term - less than 4 years). Obama has had a fully Republican Congress this year, and a Republican House since 2010. He has issued just two vetos this year, one with regard to Keystone XL Pipeline, and the other with regard to a bill related to the National Labor Relations Board. All of his other major policy priorities have been guarded zealously by a Democratic minority or an unwilling Republican majority.

This week he announced that he will veto any Defense Authorization Bill which does not defund Gitmo. Under Boehner the GOP would certainly have folded. I want a GOP to tell Obama, "No, YOU are C-in-C, you arrange for the disposition of the prisoners there and once the place is empty, we can shut it down."

It's a chickenshit maneuver by Obama - he wants to free the prisoners but wants to be able to blame the GOP when they show up on the active jihadi lists again.
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petertenthije
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
You mean, you want them to be Democrats. That is exactly the problem with today's GOP - they are too willing to act like Democrats. In his entire tenure as President, Obama has had to issue a grand total of four vetoes.

Would the low number of vetoes not be caused by the low numbers of laws actually passed by congress?
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Dreadnought
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 11):
Would the low number of vetoes not be caused by the low numbers of laws actually passed by congress?

Horsecrap. the number of bills and resolutions passed by the House has been pretty steady the past 15 years. And the "failed legislation" category has always been less than 1%.

Congress - # of Bills
114th - 6,796 (after 9 months)
113th - 10,637
112th - 12,299
111th - 13,675
110th - 14,042
109th - 13,072
108th - 10,669
107th - 10,789
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Aesma
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:57 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
It exists--the GOP supports all big government causes and spending the Democrats have. THAT is the problem and why more conservative members have clearly made a vocal break with the corrupt establishment Republicans. I'm still trying to see what the problem is there...

The problem is that you're saying 80% of congress are in agreement, yet nothing gets done thanks to a small minority.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
This week he announced that he will veto any Defense Authorization Bill which does not defund Gitmo. Under Boehner the GOP would certainly have folded. I want a GOP to tell Obama, "No, YOU are C-in-C, you arrange for the disposition of the prisoners there and once the place is empty, we can shut it down."

Well about ACA, Planned Parenthood etc., I certainly don't see the GOP voting a new law, then defunding them.

[Edited 2015-10-08 15:58:09]
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einsteinboricua
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:09 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Obama has had to issue a grand total of four vetoes

So what? Bush didn't issue a single veto until Democrats won the majority in both chambers of Congress. One difference though: some of Bush's vetoes were overridden with bipartisan support. How many bills can Congress currently pass with veto-proof majorities in both chambers?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
All of his other major policy priorities have been guarded zealously by a Democratic minority or an unwilling Republican majority.

Democrat minority...which one? The one in the House that's powerless because there's no filibuster? Or the one in the Senate that, when it was a majority, could never pass anything unless 5 Republicans broke ranks to file cloture?

Not so fun being in the majority and seeing that the tool adored and used in the Senate time and time again is now used against you, is it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
114th - 6,796 (after 9 months)
113th - 10,637
112th - 12,299

How many of these bills actually had a chance to pass? How many were actual laws and not recognitions or renaming or motions?

BTW, where are you getting these numbers from? The Library of Congress, for example, lists for the 113th Congress (House alone): 5,100 bills, 100 concurrent resolutions, 100 joint resolutions, and 100 resolutions.

In terms of the Senate, there were 3020 bills, 44 concurrent resolutions, 47 joint resolutions, and 100 senate resolutions.

5,100+100+100+100 = 5,400 in the House.
3020+44+47+100 = 3,211 in the Senate.

5,400+3,211 = 8,621 bills which is less than the 10,637 you wrote.
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Dreadnought
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
BTW, where are you getting these numbers from? The Library of Congress, for example, lists for the 113th Congress (House alone): 5,100 bills, 100 concurrent resolutions, 100 joint resolutions, and 100 resolutions.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/statistics
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seb146
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 1):
The ability for reasonable men and women to sit down at a table and work out the important issues

That would be wonderful, but, with one faction of Republicans with the mind set of "we don't negotiate with anyone" it makes things impossible.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
I unfortunately do not have a lot of faith in the Democrats' ability to restrain themselves from trying to extract too costly concessions in exchange for their help in countering the toxic influence of the Tea Party.

That is part of the Democrat's issue: the understand history and know what will and will not work. When dealing with reasonable people. This faction of Republicans are not reasonable. Democrats can, and very often, do change.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
We are after all talking about the same party that couldn't agree with itself long enough to pass a budget when it controlled Congress and the White House.

Because they were dealing with so much and so many people who all wanted their own thing. I believe they have learned the lesson.
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seb146
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:37 am

I didn't want to "edit post" because I thought this should stand alone.

What if (I know it will never happen but imagine) the main stream and reasonable Republicans, they would be labled as RINOs, jumped ship and became Democrats and worked with Democrats to elect someone not Nancy Pelosi as speaker?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
114th - 6,796 (after 9 months)

But 5000 of them were attempts to kill the ACA or Obama Care.   
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Aaron747
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
THAT is the problem and why more conservative members have clearly made a vocal break with the corrupt establishment Republicans

Maybe those who oppose the establishment need to grow a pair and aggressively take on the BS narratives fed by the WSJ, Koch, and the likes of George Will.
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Flighty
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:52 am

The high politics suggests a painful competition for Rentboys between the Tea Party and the other side of the Republican party.

Will the intrigue end? Never!
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:44 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
What if (I know it will never happen but imagine) the main stream and reasonable Republicans, they would be labled as RINOs, jumped ship and became Democrats and worked with Democrats to elect someone not Nancy Pelosi as speaker?

See the 3rd paragraph of the opening of the thread  

However, IF this happens, I will be glad if it's not Pelosi. Give another Democrat (one who is liked by both sides) a chance to lead.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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seb146
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:13 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
Maybe those who oppose the establishment need to grow a pair and aggressively take on the BS narratives fed by the WSJ, Koch, and the likes of George Will.

They can't because they need money to keep the cushy jobs where they only rename buildings and get full health and retirement benefits.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 21):
However, IF this happens, I will be glad if it's not Pelosi.

I actually don't mind Pelosi. She knows she has been branded as "extremist" and can tone it down. Yes, she slips. All politicians do. For the party to be less "extremist" she knows some other Democrat would be elected as speaker. IMO.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
It exists--the GOP supports all big government causes and spending the Democrats have. THAT is the problem and why more conservative members have clearly made a vocal break with the corrupt establishment Republicans. I'm still trying to see what the problem is there...

There is no problem. But you also have to remember those GOP politicians are elected representatives, which means even if you don't agree with them they represent the will of the people at least to some extent.
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seb146
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:47 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 23):
those GOP politicians are elected representatives, which means even if you don't agree with them they represent the will of the people at least to some extent.

Tell that to the states who overwhelmingly voted Democrat but ended up with all Republicans....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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zckls04
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
Tell that to the states who overwhelmingly voted Democrat but ended up with all Republicans....

Such as?
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DocLightning
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:28 am

Do you think Mr. Ryan might throw in?
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LAX772LR
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:09 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Do you think Mr. Ryan might throw in?

both CNN and NBC are reporting that he wants no part of it...

...MSNBC claims via Chris Matthews' show, that Boehner is trying to strong-arm him into doing it though, and may result to public tactics in order to effect such.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Do you think Mr. Ryan might throw in?

Paul Ryan and Trey Gowdy (both who are being heavily vetted for the position) said no. And that's the issue: Republicans can't find a candidate that is willing to serve as Speaker and that all can agree on.

Boehner confirmed he will stay until a Speaker has been elected, but it only takes one member of the Freedom Caucus to file a motion to vacate the chair and if the caucus stands united, Boehner is denied his 218 votes (unless Democrats keep him there) and chaos reigns supreme.

That being said: Boehner now has NOTHING to lose if he remains as speaker. In other words, he can bring bills that have mostly Democrat support (like maybe immigration reform which also has bipartisan support in the Senate) and he doesn't have to worry about losing his seat or the gavel because his original plan already has that.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 25):
Such as?

Michigan. In the 2014 US House elections Democrat candidates obtained a collective total of 1,519,030 votes vs Republicans who got a collective total of 1,466,749 votes. Republicans kept 9 seats vs 5 for Democrats.

While the US doesn't vote parliament style (the more votes for a party, the more seats it has), it does stand to question how can our system allow this to happen, where a majority of voters clearly sides with one party but the results don't come close to reflecting that.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LittleFokker
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:27 pm

http://www.facebook.com/RepMarkTakano?fref=nf

Troll level: Congressional

Democratic California Rep Mark Takano created a fake Craig's List add for the Speaker of the House role. I'd say he nailed it.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see the GOP nominate Bozo the Clown to be their Speaker it would be befitting of their "leadership" capabilities.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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casinterest
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:44 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 25):
Such as?

Currently Virginia and North Carolina fall into this realm due to Gerrymandering. The packing of districts with democrats to a level of 70+% in order to push more republicans into other districts. In NC iIt has resulted in 9 of 13 representative seats in Congress for the GOP vs a state that votes more along the 50/50 level for president and other plurality vote seats such as the senate.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Ken777
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
As much as they hate each other, I don't think they'll really drift too far apart.

They are already bragging about getting the head of John Boehner and now McCarthy's. Hard to believe that the 40 radicalized conservatives will be willing to work with the rest of the GOP Representatives - especially as that would be against there obsessive political religion. Let them get their own political church and formal Party. The Koch Brothers will happily foot the bill.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
I unfortunately do not have a lot of faith in the Democrats' ability to restrain themselves from trying to extract too costly concessions in exchange for their help in countering the toxic influence of the Tea Party.

There will be Democrats that will work out an an agreement for passing responsible legislation. That, or course, would mean that the Hastert Rule needs to be dumped - and that also makes the Tea party irrelevant.

The Radicalized Conservatives have no problem shutting down the government or defaulting on Treasury obligations. Will responsible Republicansever be that irresponsible? This is a good time for the split - act before the Tea Party can cause any more damage.

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
have clearly made a vocal break with the corrupt establishment Republicans.

I'll assume that you consider the establishment Republicans "corrupt" because they are emotionally capable to work with elected Represented across the aisle? There was some discussions on that today and the friendship of Everett Dirksen and JFK when Kennedy was a Senator. Senator Dirksen was one of the most respected Republican Senators around and the Tea Party has none that even compares.

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
I'm still trying to see what the problem is there...

The problem is that the US is at risk of shutting down, or defaulting on financial obligations and Tea Party politicians see nothing wrong with that.

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
That's hardly a radical idea, but for a big lefty like you Ken, it's like showing a vampire a cross.

I'm a big lefty? You do have a hard time identifying an independent who tries to look at both sides of the coin. I grew up in an oil company home and never voted fora Democrat until Bush I's advisors pushed "conservative" beyond my acceptance level. I went back and voted for Bush II in 2000, but there was no WMDs in Iraq and I believe that Cheney realized that fact. As a Vietnam Vet I had zero tolerance for the lies Rummy & Cheney delivered to get that invasion.

And, surprise of surprise, I continued to vote GOP when it came to John Sullivan, my representative. Sadly Sullivan was thrown under the bus by the Tea Party so now I would vote for a sheep dog before voting for the Tea Party candidate.

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
The contrarian argument is that career oligarchs that have no principles

I have found most of the traditional Republicans to be responsible and have far more principles than the Tea Party politicians. Senator Everett Dirksen noted above is a pretty good example. Orrin Hatch has been a pretty responsible Senator for generations.

But I guess your preference is Senator Cruz.    And that anyone who is not a Tea Party Lap Dog is a Lefty or Liberal.

Quoting slider (Reply 6):
actual conservatives who, GASP, want to actually reduce the size, scope and spending in DC.

We'e had sequestration and Americans across the country have paid the price of that. Those who "to actually reduce the size, scope and spending in DC" never seem to find the time or intellectual effort to figure out what the adverse impacts will be on Americans.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):
The right wingers are no exception: they'll decry education, healthcare, and entitlement programs; but then vote to spend on every military, social "moral," and corporate subsidy bill that comes their way.

A lot of Republicans have what I call the MBA Mentality - get this years profits before anything else (and grab that bonus) and if the future is deteriorated then move on to another company that can be screwed up.

There is, IMHO, a need to to take a long term look at spending on many levels. Defense is a great example. The USS Enterprise served in the fleets for 50 years so it is fair and responsible to look at that initial cost on an annual cost basis.

Cutting spending on things like health and education is short term mentality with no idea or concern about the long term consequences. That, IMHO, is a greater risk to the nation that ISIS.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
In his entire tenure as President, Obama has had to issue a grand total of four vetoes.

Maybe that's because all of the bills brought up by the crazies never made it to his desk

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Under Boehner the GOP would certainly have folded.

Folded? Maybe he would have worked across the aisle to get something done that would be signed. But then the crazies on the radicalized right would keep that from happening.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
One difference though: some of Bush's vetoes were overridden with bipartisan support.

That was before the crazies got their power and used Koch Brothers cash to put fear into responsible Republicans.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
That would be wonderful, but, with one faction of Republicans with the mind set of "we don't negotiate with anyone" it makes things impossible.

That is why the Hastert Rule needs to go. And the Rejectionists disregarded. The normal Republicans can deliver important legislation that will be signed by the President They just need the Rejectionists to be told that they are now irrelevant,

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
You mean you want them to be Democrats. That is exactly the problem with today's GOP - they are too willing to act like Democrats.

Or they are acting like traditional, responsible Republicans who are capable of putting their country above petty politics. Just because you don't drink the Rejectionists Cool Aid you don't have to be a Democrat. You can be a traditional, responsible Republican.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
one with regard to Keystone XL Pipeline,

Keystone has a problem with a large number of bad welds and that has reasonable people looking what should be done to make it safe.

In addition, oil companies have thousands of miles of pipeline that only gets maintenance when a major problem hits. Maybe we need to first develop and start ongoing maintenance on existing pipelines and use problems found to identify potential problems with the Keystone program.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
That would be wonderful, but, with one faction of Republicans with the mind set of "we don't negotiate with anyone" it makes things impossible.

So kick them out of the party and let them go on their own. All the Rejectionists are doing is tearing down the country..

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
That is part of the Democrat's issue: the understand history and know what will and will not work. When dealing with reasonable people. This faction of Republicans are not reasonable. Democrats can, and very often, do change.

There is a wide range of folks in the Democratic Party. Will Rogers said it best: "I don't belong to any organized political party - I'm a Democrat". There are radicalized liberals in the Party just as there are traditional Conservatives. Today you have the Radicalized Republicans in the GOP and you have moderate, responsible Republicans who work hard to keep out of the sights of the Tea Party as they know they can be wiped out in the next primary because of one small "moderate" comment.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
What if (I know it will never happen but imagine) the main stream and reasonable Republicans, they would be labled as RINOs, jumped ship and became Democrats and worked with Democrats to elect someone not Nancy Pelosi as speaker?

They don't need to jump ship - they need too dump the Hastert Rule and then totally disregard the rejectionists. Put them on the worst committees and give them no public stage. You know the receptionists are worried about that right now because one of their "demands" on McCarthy was they would not be punish.

My hope is that Boehner will make a public statement that he will stay on through the 2016 Election as any other Speaker would be committing political suicide. At the same time he pulls Tea Party members from their committees and would be reassigned to less important positions - if any. And with the Hastert Rule gone Boehner can move important legislation to the floor for a vote without the blessings of the Tea Party.

If he's smart he will work with conservative Democrats to ensure the legislation will go through the House smoothly and will work with McConnell and Schumer to ensure it gets through the Senate.

Time to make it clear that the Tea Party is not irrelevant and can so out on their own if they wanted. The final step wold be to remove them from the Rolls of Republicans and eliminate their seniority.
 
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propilot83
Posts: 625
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:03 pm

You see what I mean??? When the Democrats had control of the Senate and the House in 2009+, everything seem just to be fine.
They didn't play political games with the American people, unemployment extension was passed, healthcare passed,
and all these great things surely benefited me. I'm definitely voting for Hillary Clinton hopefully God willing she makes it
pass the primary elections or whatever they call it in May 2016 when it falls down to two candidates. First black man President
Obama, and the first American Women President of the United States of America November 2016....Hillary Clinton. It's time
for a new calling, and a better change for America and the rest of the world God willing. The Republican party has been a
shame to the American public, government shutdowns????? Really! This is such a huge embarrassment to the country
that calls itself the Most Powerful and Richest Nation in the world. I understand its not the trees, mountains, and beautiful
scenery to blame, but its certain individuals that like to play horsy horsy. Yea whatever, as long as were okay I guess.
 
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einsteinboricua
Topic Author
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
then totally disregard the rejectionists

Unfortunately, the House NEEDS a Speaker and unless Republicans are willing to reach out to Democrats or they find a consensus candidate, the Rejectionists will play a vital role: they stand in the way of a Speaker being elected.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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zckls04
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
While the US doesn't vote parliament style (the more votes for a party, the more seats it has), it does stand to question how can our system allow this to happen, where a majority of voters clearly sides with one party but the results don't come close to reflecting that.

I think you've answered your own question. We don't have proportional representation. I'd love it if we did though.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
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seb146
Posts: 21981
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:18 pm

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 32):
When the Democrats had control of the Senate and the House in 2009+, everything seem just to be fine.

Not all was so rosy. They still had to deal with the tea faction who demanded that ALL Republicans vote their way or be forced from by use of shaming and primary elections. Democrats had to negotiate and give up certain things in order to get a few Republicans votes.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 25):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
Tell that to the states who overwhelmingly voted Democrat but ended up with all Republicans....

Such as?

Most notably, Wisconsin. To a lesser extent, southern states.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14867
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:31 pm

At one time, the Speaker of the House was a far more respected role by the House members. It is also a very critical part of Presidential succession if the President and the VP were to be both dead or become incapacitated, they are then Acting President. The person must be carefully chosen, to have someone who can work with both parties and sub-groups within each party. The Tea Party and related radicals including 'religious' ones on the Republican side who won't compromise for their selfish reasons, they no longer make deals with each other like for favored funding deals for each other's local constituents that kept some function of our Federal Government. Thus the problem with the position of the Speaker as no one really wants the thankless hassles and being neutered by a far too noisy minority of our elected officials.
 
Ken777
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):

Do you think Mr. Ryan might throw in?

Personally I believe that he is too smart to take the job as long as the Tea Party is making the demands that they were making on McCarthy. Speaker is now a dead end job with the Rejectionists holding so much power and until they are told they are irrelevant and the GOP will return to the traditional job of working with responsible folks across the aisle. If Ryan wants to move to the Senate at some point then the Speakers job would make it more difficult.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 29):
Democratic California Rep Mark Takano created a fake Craig's List add for the Speaker of the House role. I'd say he nailed it.

        

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
Unfortunately, the House NEEDS a Speaker and unless Republicans are willing to reach out to Democrats or they find a consensus candidate, the Rejectionists will play a vital role: they stand in the way of a Speaker being elected.

Unless a few conservatives cross the aisle for someone that the Democrats consider responsible.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 10642
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:27 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
Personally I believe that he is too smart to take the job as long as the Tea Party is making the demands that they were making on McCarthy. Speaker is now a dead end job with the Rejectionists holding so much power and until they are told they are irrelevant and the GOP will return to the traditional job of working with responsible folks across the aisle. If Ryan wants to move to the Senate at some point then the Speakers job would make it more difficu

The Right wing of the GOP is proving to be a real problem. Apparently a far right wing activist was responsible for the email about the affair. Whether their was an affair or not, it seems the far right has it out for anyone that steps in their path. The GOP is finished if it can't reign in the far fringe side of the party.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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par13del
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I wonder if moderate Republicans would leave the GOP caucus and join Democrats to create a "coalition-style Speaker" in order to get things done while keeping the extremist right-wing politicians at bay?

Based on their rhetoric, is there such a thing?

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
We are after all talking about the same party that couldn't agree with itself long enough to pass a budget when it controlled Congress and the White House.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
the number of bills and resolutions passed by the House has been pretty steady the past 15 years

The senate was the problem, more so the fact that the leader of the senate decided the fact of the bills rather than the members via debate and vote.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
Cutting spending on things like health and education is short term mentality with no idea or concern about the long term consequences

When you look at the US budget and the national deficit, those programs along with the entitlements are the largest and some way or another those cost will have to be addressed.
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 23):
But you also have to remember those GOP politicians are elected representatives, which means even if you don't agree with them they represent the will of the people at least to some extent.

Let's get something straight-- NO ONE represents the will of the people anymore unless you're talking about two groups:

A) Rapacious capitalists like the big banks that own DC
B) Low information voters who elect Santa Claus and expect the gravy train to continue

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
I'll assume that you consider the establishment Republicans "corrupt" because they are emotionally capable to work with elected Represented across the aisle?

If that means continuing to grow the government, yes. I don't think you fully grasp the magnitude of the shitstorm we're really in here.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
The problem is that the US is at risk of shutting down, or defaulting on financial obligations and Tea Party politicians see nothing wrong with that.

Oh baloney. Stop with the demagoguery, Ken. No one's defaulting on anything. You buy into the scare tactics that the left use to keep government funded at its irresponsible and unsustainable level.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
We'e had sequestration and Americans across the country have paid the price of that.

Cut the horseshit. Sequestration was nonsense. We barely popped a zit on government spending.

There has been no pain, no reduction in bureaucracy, no reduction of laws, no elimination of onerous regulations, no cessation of taxation, and unconstitutional spending has continued completely unfettered.

You're dangerously naive if you think so, and this puts you in the "useful idiot" category if that's what you truly believe. Wake up.

We're screwed.
 
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zckls04
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
Let's get something straight-- NO ONE represents the will of the people anymore unless you're talking about two groups:

A) Rapacious capitalists like the big banks that own DC
B) Low information voters who elect Santa Claus and expect the gravy train to continue

I don't think that's correct. A subsection of the population have chosen to elect Tea Party candidates, the majority have not. If some people have chosen to do it and most have not, it's indicative that they do not represent the will of the majority. Your soundbites above may go down well at a rally, but they're not based in fact.

And stop with the "low information voters" crap. Some people have different opinions- you're going to have to learn to live with that.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
Paul Ryan and Trey Gowdy (both who are being heavily vetted for the position) said no. And that's the issue: Republicans can't find a candidate that is willing to serve as Speaker and that all can agree on.

Mr. Ryan says he wants time with his family, which is a way of saying: "No, you are all way too crazy and I don't want this job!"

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
Unless a few conservatives cross the aisle for someone that the Democrats consider responsible.

Question: does the Speaker need a majority to be elected or will a plurality do?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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OA412
Moderator
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 29):
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see the GOP nominate Bozo the Clown to be their Speaker it would be befitting of their "leadership" capabilities.

Now, now, it's really unfair of you to sully Bozo the Clown's good name like that. 
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
I'm a big lefty? You do have a hard time identifying an independent who tries to look at both sides of the coin.

That basically describes a lot of those on the far-right in a nutshell. Anyone at all to the left of them on any issue is a communist.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 41):
And stop with the "low information voters" crap. Some people have different opinions- you're going to have to learn to live with that.

BS. I just had a talk with a 25 year-old college graduate who did not even know what the Bill of Rights was. Never heard of it! I'm serious. And she wants to vote for Hillary because "If a Republican wins, I will lose my reproductive freedom." No shit that is a direct quote.

The state of public education in this country is headed south fast.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:36 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
"If a Republican wins, I will lose my reproductive freedom." No shit that is a direct quote.



I think her fears are well founded as far as reproductive rights go. If I was her and had those concerns, I would vote for anyone but a Republican. They are out in right field on such. You know I could not say left field, it would not fit.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 45):
I think her fears are well founded as far as reproductive rights go. If I was her and had those concerns, I would vote for anyone but a Republican. They are out in right field on such. You know I could not say left field, it would not fit.

You do of course realize that due to the legal precedent in this country, the only way abortion will ever be illegal in the US is with a constitutional amendment banning it. And that has a snowball's chance in hell of ever passing.

And anyone who votes "single-issue" like that (particularly a non-issue like abortion) I would consider "low-information".
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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seb146
Posts: 21981
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
And anyone who votes "single-issue" like that (particularly a non-issue like abortion) I would consider "low-information".

Tell that to the people who want the United States to be a "Christian" nation. This falls under that. Unfortunately, there are way too many low information voters.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
"If a Republican wins, I will lose my reproductive freedom." No shit that is a direct quote.

Hobby Lobby and the whole Planned Parenthood non-issue.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
I just had a talk with a 25 year-old college graduate who did not even know what the Bill of Rights was. Never heard of it! I'm serious

I don't doubt that there are ignorant voters out there. However I disagree with the theory that they all vote Democrat, which is the usual premise of those who use the phrase "low information voter".

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
And she wants to vote for Hillary because "If a Republican wins, I will lose my reproductive freedom."

Sounds quite reasonable to me. If you disagree it's you who is the low information voter. As you well know freedoms are not removed wholesale but in slices, and the Republicans have nailed their colors to the mast VERY firmly on this issue.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
And anyone who votes "single-issue" like that (particularly a non-issue like abortion) I would consider "low-information".

Depends on what's important to you. If a single issue matters to you more than any other it's reasonable to place more weight on it.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
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einsteinboricua
Topic Author
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RE: McCarthy Pulls Out Of Race

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
Unless a few conservatives cross the aisle for someone that the Democrats consider responsible.

Question: does the Speaker need a majority to be elected or will a plurality do?

A Speaker needs an absolute majority of the current House membership, meaning that he or she needs 218 (out of the current 435) votes in the affirmative. An abstention or a vote for someone else denies that candidate a vote. If there are vacancies, then those votes don't count so assuming there are 10 vacancies, a candidate for Speaker need only 213 votes (212 + 213 = 425 + 10 vacancies = 435).

That is why Boehner called it quits and McCarthy dropped out: even if 200 Republicans stood united with either one, they still don't clinch that magic number. Democrats can all united behind Pelosi or even propose someone from out of Congress to be Speaker and because they don't have 218 votes, even if Republicans split their vote in 5 ways, no one reached an absolute majority.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."

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