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AA7295
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Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:40 pm

With a lot of the talk these days about gun rights, I have thought about something. With concealed carry etc, has there ever been a recorded case where someone tried to mass shoot a group of people, but someone with a concealed weapon was able to "take that person out" and prevent them from causing harm?

With around 1 gun in America for every citizen and with gun rights advocates saying more guns equals safety etc, I'm just curious to see if what they are saying is true.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:47 pm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...-stopped-by-someone-wit#.emBjM6djx

I wouldn't argue that is how to prevent mass shootings, but it does happen.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
With a lot of the talk these days about gun rights, I have thought about something. With concealed carry etc, has there ever been a recorded case where someone tried to mass shoot a group of people, but someone with a concealed weapon was able to "take that person out" and prevent them from causing harm?

A kid barged his way into my home 3 years ago and after meeting my .45 in his face he turned and ran. My brother in law who runs a jewelry shop (and carries a gun in each pocket) took down one of a gang of three that tried to hold up his store last year - he got some kind of hero award from the city, apparently the guy he caught was wanted for murder in 3 states.

It happens all the time.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
It happens all the time.

  

It's just the media is often hesitant to report it since it does not conform to their line of thinking.
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coolian2
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:57 pm

There's no way the NRA wouldn't pay off a media outlet to report these.

The fact that it's only cliches or fear mongering suggests they either are really stupid or these don't happen as much as a murder or senseless death.

Or both. I'm flexible.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 6):
I would imagine that break ins and burglaries that are prevented with guns often wouldn't be reported as nothing actually happened.

Correct. I never reported the attempted break-in i mentioned. I'm sure the vast majority of prevented crimes are never reported, because, as you say, nothing happened.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:20 pm

Well simple, if there no significant issues occurring, then there'd be nothing to bash murica about, would there ?
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dfwjim1
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:24 pm

A few years ago there was an incident (I think it was in Salt Lake City) where an armed man entered a Walmart with the
intent to shoot as many people as possible. Fortunately a customer armed with a concealed handgun shot the man and prevented
a mass shooting. However the customer ended up losing his life in the gun battle with the gunman.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about any details pertaining to this story.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Of course, they're statistically insignificant when compared to the number killed by guns each and every year.

The vast majority of which occur between two criminals conducting or furthering illegal activity...but hey....   
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Stealthz
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:51 pm

The story linked in reply 1 does little for the "if more people carried guns" argument.
Of the 9 incidents quoted 7 were handled or brought under control by trained law enforcement or military, not some empowered Joe Schmo who thinks he can keep America safe by keeping a Glock down his pants.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:01 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
Of the 9 incidents quoted 7 were handled or brought under control by trained law enforcement or military, not some empowered Joe Schmo who thinks he can keep America safe by keeping a Glock down his pants.

I noticed that you did not mention my story about my brother in law. Here is a news report about the incident.

http://www.kentucky.com/2014/07/01/3...police-employee-at-the-castle.html

The "General Manager" in the story is my brother in law. Ashley, also mentioned in the story, is my niece.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:33 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSOJGNaq2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vby4CgLOR44

There are a lot of calls like this on youtube.

If these folks had done the same to me I might be dead because I personally don't own a gun.
 
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 6):
Do you have a statistic to back that up?

The fact that the NRA don't provide copious statistics to show the opposite is enough for most of us.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 7):
There's no way the NRA wouldn't pay off a media outlet to report these.

Exactly.   

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 12):
The vast majority of which occur between two criminals conducting or furthering illegal activity...but hey....

And OP was asking about 'mass shootings' prevented by the mythical good guy with a gun. But hey...
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johns624
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 16):
So does a few thousand people per week getting gunned down.... but heaven forbid that we talk about it.

According to the FBI, there were 14,196 murders in 2013, many not by guns. That would leave nowhere near your "a few thousand people per week".
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/november/crime-statistics-for-2013-released/crime-statistics-for-2013-released
 
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 16):
So does a few thousand people per week getting gunned down.... but heaven forbid that we talk about it.

The body count is not what's important. It's what is in the news that's important. Right now guns are hot, so we talk about that. Don't you people understand that people don't care?

Half a million Americans are killed every year by smoking in the USA. That's 166 9/11's or 8.5 Vietnam wars worth of deaths EVERY YEAR due to something that's much more easily prevented than gun deaths. Countless mothers and fathers, friends, coworkers struck with terrible sickness, cancer, and the burden on the healthcare system and their family. Lost memories. Never being able to walk their daughter down the isle. Never having grandkids, bla bla bla. All for what? But it's their right to smoke.

Do you know someone personally that has died from smoking? What about gun violence? Have you done anything for either cause?
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:23 am

The first question to ask:

What is considered defensive use of a firearm?

Does it mean actually shooting someone? Does it mean drawing the firearm? Pointing it at an aggressor? Merely brandishing the firearm?

So, based on your answer to that question, you'll get a wide ranging answer to your question.


A few events here:

http://thearmedcitizen.com/category/armed-citizen-stories/

and here:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Of course, they're statistically insignificant when compared to the number killed by guns each and every year. But hey...

This study cites (on page 56) the National Crime Victimization Survey at 60,000 - 120,000 uses per year. It also cites another report that estimates up to 2,500,000 per year.

An article here that references the above study.

The Cato Institute puts this out.

There's a guy out there...I can't find the study, but he refutes the 2,500,000 claim and says the actual defensive use of a firearm is about 100,000.

None of the numbers are statistically insignificant.
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seb146
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
rather famous case of Marissa Alexander, who fired a warning shot to fend off a man with a history of physically abusing her

But that does not count because they are Black and in Florida.

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 6):
I would imagine that break ins and burglaries that are prevented with guns often wouldn't be reported as nothing actually happened

Most break ins happen when people are not home.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
60,000 - 120,000 uses per year. It also cites another report that estimates up to 2,500,000 per year.

Again, like you said, what is the definition of "use"? Did they simply pull back their jacket so the aggressor could see the gun? Was it even a real gun or a pellet gun? Did the aggressor simply leave out of fear of being caught?
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Dreadnought
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Again, like you said, what is the definition of "use"? Did they simply pull back their jacket so the aggressor could see the gun?

The vast majority of the time, when a jackoff realizes he is facing someone who is armed, they leave. In my family I know of a number of events that were prevented in that way - and none of them actually required the gun to actually be fired.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 12):The vast majority of which occur between two criminals conducting or furthering illegal activity...but hey....
And OP was asking about 'mass shootings' prevented by the mythical good guy with a gun. But hey...

Which is a non-starter to begin with, because once the gunman was stopped in their tracks, it never became a 'mass shooting' in the first place. But hey...
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johns624
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 22):
No we literally can't even talk about it without pannicked gun people coming out to shriek that the problem is anything but what it actually and obviously is...
Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 22):
Exhibit A.

I didn't "shriek". I merely refuted another's statistics. Isn't that how mature adults conduct conversations? I guess that over-the-top exaggerations are okay if someone that you agree with throws them out there.
 
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 24):
Which is a non-starter to begin with, because once the gunman was stopped in their tracks, it never became a 'mass shooting' in the first place. But hey...

Exactly. it only becomes a mass shooting after it happens.
 
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:42 am

I have used a gun to protect my home from an intruder.

Not to get into great detail but a gentleman was attempting to break into my home via my sliding glass door on my deck and I heard him. I called 911 and then went out the front door, around the house, and observed him prying open my door with a screwdriver. He had something shiny in his waistband so I took up a covered position about 10 feet way and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. Nothing was ever said between he and I other than, "Stop. Don't move. You move and I will shoot you."

He stayed in the same position without moving until the police arrived.

Contrary to the expert foreigners on here I was not aiming at his leg or arm. If he would have turned and reached for his waistband he would have been toast.

Turns out the guy was a dude from the neighborhood looking to create a little mischief thinking I wasn't home. Lucky him.
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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Again, like you said, what is the definition of "use"? Did they simply pull back their jacket so the aggressor could see the gun? Was it even a real gun or a pellet gun? Did the aggressor simply leave out of fear of being caught?

Really doesn't matter. If the mere appearance of a firearm caused the aggressor to stop, it was a successful use of a firearm. No? Or, would you rather that every confrontation escalate to violence?

The fact that the vast majority of these confrontations do not escalate to violence, or pulling the trigger, punches quite a few holes into the anti-gun nuts' argument that law-abiding gun carrying Americans, or permanent-resident aliens are just itching to shoot someone.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 19):
Don't you people understand that people don't care?

Understand? Sure.
Care? Hardly.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 19):
But it's their right to smoke.

Smoking is a "right?" Since when?

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 19):
Do you know someone personally that has died from smoking? What about gun violence?

Yup, unfortunately.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 22):
We're so enamoured with these toys that we can't even have a discussion on operating them safely and responsibly.

   Exactly.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 29):
Smoking is a "right?" Since when?

Currently its a defacto right. I've never heard of any free citizen being denied the right to smoke.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 29):
Yup, unfortunately.

Would you be willing to share your story? Have you done anything to change the law?
 
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seb146
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
Really doesn't matter. If the mere appearance of a firearm caused the aggressor to stop, it was a successful use of a firearm. No? Or, would you rather that every confrontation escalate to violence?

And there are some who have zero f**ks to give and still do everything they can to fight.

And there are still others who see what they think is an intruder, shoot, and kill someone they know.

What is your point?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
The vast majority of the time, when a jackoff realizes he is facing someone who is armed, they leave.

Statistics?

oh, wait....

NRA does not like statistics.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 29):
Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 19):
Do you know someone personally that has died from smoking? What about gun violence?

Yup, unfortunately.

And I have known people who have died in an RV during deer hunting season because of a propane leak. It is all about education. I have known people who have died in car accidents. It is all about education.

What is the opposition to educating people about mental illness and how dangerous weapons of mass destruction are?
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 9):
Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
but someone with a concealed weapon was able to "take that person out" and prevent them from causing harm?

Home break ins? I guess.

High profile events I have heard of? No, not many! It is normally law enforcement that comes in to end the situation.

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 27):

Not to get into great detail

Quite a lot of detail, interesting!

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 27):
If he would have turned and reached for his waistband he would have been toast.

Cool stuff.
But would you have been happy living with the fact you iced another human being for trying to run away from your glass door?


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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
What is your point?

You've spun off into some tangent.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
Statistics?

You looked at my links right? There could be 2,500,000 successful intervention or there could be 100,000...but either way, the number is not insignificant.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 32):
High profile events I have heard of? No, not many! It is normally law enforcement that comes in to end the situation.

This one could have been high-profile...but wasn't:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/17...d-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield

Or, this one:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/...older-protects-family-from-shooter

Sounds like she may have done a good deed:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/27/us/woman-kills-attacker-serial-killer/

Detroit taking back their city:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/i...kill-attackers-in-detroit/24625454

Point is, that many of these incidents could have become high-profile if not for the intervention of an armed person.

[Edited 2015-10-15 19:42:49]

[Edited 2015-10-15 19:43:16]
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mham001
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Of course, they're statistically insignificant when compared to the number killed by guns each and every year. But hey...

I would think a fellow like you would be more concerned with the fact that a significantly larger percentage of your population will die from your diesel fuel policies every year than die from murder by guns in America. Or that a significantly larger percentage of your population will die from alcoholism, than from murder by gun in America. Astounding really, given the incessant bleating by overseas critics..

A smart fellow would worry about where he sleeps before spending so much energy worrying about things that have no affect on his life. Of course, there is that glass house thing too.
 
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 32):
Cool stuff.
But would you have been happy living with the fact you iced another human being for trying to run away from your glass door?

If he ran away I wouldn't have been within the law to shoot and I would have been arrested had I pulled the trigger. But if he had turned toward me while reaching in his waistband I wouldn't have a second thought. Lucky for him that he did exactly what I told him that night.

I own and carry a gun for my protection and the protection of others. If you saw me tomorrow you wouldn't even suspect that this mild-mannered businessman is a gun owner and has been one for almost 30 years.

Like 99.9% of gun owners I obey the law and don't draw attention to myself. But I can guarantee you that if, heaven forbid, I am in a situation where I am called upon to use force to prevent a serious event I will have no qualms doing what I have to do. But I don't go looking for it.
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:05 am

Just today: a crazy guy on Market St in SF grabbed a cop's gun, so another SFPD shot him. Saved by a gun!

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/...San-Francisco-s-Market-6572784.php
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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 35):
I own and carry a gun for my protection and the protection of others. If you saw me tomorrow you wouldn't even suspect that this mild-mannered businessman is a gun owner and has been one for almost 30 years.

I've been carrying for about 15 and, you can rest assured, no one knows it. I can be wearing a pair of freaking running shorts and a T-Shirt, and someone standing in front of me wouldn't be able to tell I was carrying an S&W Shield.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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MrHMSH
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 34):
Or that a significantly larger percentage of your population will die from alcoholism, than from murder by gun in America. Astounding

People who die from alcoholism generally choose to drink, and don't have the willpower to stop. But most people that die from guns don't choose to get shot.
 
flyguy89
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:43 am

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 38):
But most people that die from guns don't choose to get shot.

But they (the vast majority of gun victims and perpetrators) do choose to engage in violent crime related activity that has an inherent extremely high risk of gun violence.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):
Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 38):But most people that die from guns don't choose to get shot.
But they (the vast majority of gun victims and perpetrators) do choose to engage in violent crime related activity that has an inherent extremely high risk of gun violence.

  

This.

It's always conveniently overlooked at how much of the "high gun violence rate" in the U.S. occurs between two criminals using firearms to commit further criminal acts or further them.
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hh65man
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:15 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):

Like going to Uni, Church, Grade School....is that what you mean......
 
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seb146
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:29 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
I can be wearing a pair of freaking running shorts and a T-Shirt, and someone standing in front of me wouldn't be able to tell

I walk down the street and pass 10 people. I can see, by the actions and way the person carries them self, what weapons they have. My cousin was an SVU detective in San Diego. He had the same intuition.

Not everyone is naive. Not everyone lives in fear. Not everyone is scared.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
There could be 2,500,000 successful intervention or there could be 100,000...but either way, the number is not insignificant.

That is 2,400,000 difference. That is not insignificant. It may be to "meh... just a shooting" types. But not Americans who believe that life is precious.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):
You've spun off into some tangent.

The "I hear a sound so shoot" tangent? yeah. That life does not matter. It was insignificant. In fact, they deserved it. Right? That is what I am reading.
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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:48 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
I walk down the street and pass 10 people. I can see, by the actions and way the person carries them self, what weapons they have. My cousin was an SVU detective in San Diego. He had the same intuition.

Bull. I've been carrying a gun so long, I don't do any of the things that are considered "tells", I used to, it's common for new carriers to do that. I'm comfortable.


Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
The "I hear a sound so shoot" tangent? yeah. That life does not matter. It was insignificant. In fact, they deserved it. Right? That is what I am reading.

Wow.

You wrote this:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
Again, like you said, what is the definition of "use"? Did they simply pull back their jacket so the aggressor could see the gun? Was it even a real gun or a pellet gun? Did the aggressor simply leave out of fear of being caught?

I wrote this:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
Really doesn't matter. If the mere appearance of a firearm caused the aggressor to stop, it was a successful use of a firearm. No? Or, would you rather that every confrontation escalate to violence?

and you spun into this:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
And there are some who have zero f**ks to give and still do everything they can to fight.

And there are still others who see what they think is an intruder, shoot, and kill someone they know.

Trust me...you jumped the tracks somewhere.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
That is 2,400,000 difference. That is not insignificant. It may be to "meh... just a shooting" types. But not Americans who believe that life is precious.

You're right: 100,000 is not insignificant and neither is 2,400,000. And, I carry because I do believe that life is precious...very precious.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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flyguy89
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting hh65man (Reply 41):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):

Like going to Uni, Church, Grade School....is that what you mean......

No, I'm referencing the 99% of gun deaths that don't occur in mass shootings. Over 60% of gun deaths in the U.S. alone are suicides.

Gun deaths in the U.S. are also at their lowest point since 1981 and have decreased by nearly 50% just since 1993.
 
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seb146
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:57 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 44):
Gun deaths in the U.S. are also at their lowest point since 1981 and have decreased by nearly 50% just since 1993.

And are still because of mental issues.

Because health care (mental included) are not affordable to Americans. Care to guess why?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 30):
Currently its a defacto right.

Uh, no. Smoking is in no way a right (at least in the USA, I can't speak for others).



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 30):
I've never heard of any free citizen being denied the right to smoke.

Then you need to get out more. Happens all the time.



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 30):
Would you be willing to share your story?

Have lost so many friends and family to gun violence, unfortunately.

Probably the most noteworthy one though, would be my uncle killing my aunt Lo and cousin Keisha (his stepdaughter) after sending his own kids to go get ice cream. He lost the house in their separation, and didn't want her to have it.

http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?s=6648521&clienttype=printable

I uploaded this old video to YouTube, as it's the only images that I even have of Lo and Keisha, to remember them by.
If you pause it at 0:27, you'd see Keisha in the pink blouse, Lo sitting next to her in white, and their cowardly piece of shit murderer sitting next to her in blue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iCMm6boTM




Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 30):
Have you done anything to change the law?

Smokers? Couldn't care less about what happens to them. That's death by choice.

Victims of gun violence? Everything from give what I can to the few politicians (back in Louisiana) who would dare suggest gun restriction, despite the fact that they always lost... to supporting my cousin's now defunct drug and violence prevention teen activities program in BTR.

[Edited 2015-10-15 22:14:16]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:27 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 33):

This one could have been high-profile...but wasn't:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/17...d-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield

Or, this one:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/...older-protects-family-from-shooter

Sounds like she may have done a good deed:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/27/us/woman-kills-attacker-serial-killer/

Detroit taking back their city:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/i...25454

Thanks!
But really 1 sounded like a possible mass shooting in the making.

The last 2 examples you cited were pure self defense.
Not quite what this thread is about.

I still think that the argument of "let's arm as many as we can because they stop the bad guys" is being exaggerated, in general.

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 35):
But if he had turned toward me while reaching in his waistband I wouldn't have a second thought

That was kind of my question.
He turns around, you shoot him......how would you deal with that later?
I just wonder! How would I feel after killing an unarmed mischievous youngster?

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fr8mech
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:38 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 47):
The last 2 examples you cited were pure self defense.

But, that's the rub...you can never know what will happen. Maybe the aggressor kills the initial victim, then starts shooting potential witnesses or police officers as they try to arrest him. You can't know.

All these news media outlets say that an armed civilian has never stopped a mass murderer. Bullshit. It is impossible to know what that aggressor would have done had he managed to kill the initial victim. There is a very strong possibility that the reason we don't see more civilians stopping mass murders in progress is because the potential mass murderer is stopped before he reaches the threshold.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
johns624
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:01 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 39):
I walk down the street and pass 10 people. I can see, by the actions and way the person carries them self, what weapons they have.

I call BS. You brought this up in another thread and I showed you how few people in your surrounding five counties had CCW permits. It was in the low hundreds, IIRC. You can't be spotting that many people. You're imagining things,
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 45):
There is a very strong possibility that the reason we don't see more civilians stopping mass murders in progress is because the potential mass murderer is stopped before he reaches the threshold.

In certain cases, perhaps; yes.
But the other side of the coin is that we would have seen less mass shootings if gun control was stricter.
And yes...there is a way of knowing that: by looking at similar civilized countries and their number of mass shootings.

But my last point is not popular with a lot of members on here.......they like to go with your type of "a gun owner will solve it" reasoning what often leads to: "more guns please, as they tend to stop mass shootings".
Every gun owner I ever met or seen on TV claims to be a "responsible gun owner"......so just stock up on ammo for everybody´s safety; problem solved!
(Not saying you say this fr8mech.....just quoting a very popular opinion).

I believe controlling the issue has proven to be more successful then to hope on the "off chance gun owner" who will actually prevent evil stuff from happening. The international statistics speak for themselves!

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Kiwirob
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Correct. I never reported the attempted break-in i mentioned. I'm sure the vast majority of prevented crimes are never reported, because, as you say, nothing happened.

Then how do we know it ever happened, it sounds a lot like a me to story.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):
have decreased by nearly 50% just since 1993.

And do you know why, probably not so I'll tell you, November 1993 is the year the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act took effect, this required background checks for the sale of handguns.

Do some positiive and you get positive results.
 
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seb146
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 46):
You brought this up in another thread and I showed you how few people in your surrounding five counties had CCW permits.

But, as people say, criminals do not feel the need to go through all that. Even "responsible" gun owners murder.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 49):
But, as people say, criminals do not feel the need to go through all that. Even "responsible" gun owners murder

1. People who aren't legally carrying to not do so in a manner that's obvious. If it's so "obvious" to you, wouldn't it also be "obvious" to the police?
2. How many lawabiding gunowners ever murder?
 
flyguy89
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 44):
Gun deaths in the U.S. are also at their lowest point since 1981 and have decreased by nearly 50% just since 1993.

And are still because of mental issues.

That's certainly part of the issue, but only part. The larger number of gun deaths attributable to suicide would certainly fall into this category. But then suicide is a larger societal issue, and taking guns out of the equation won't help there.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 48):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):
have decreased by nearly 50% just since 1993.

And do you know why, probably not so I'll tell you, November 1993 is the year the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act took effect, this required background checks for the sale of handguns.

Not really. Gun deaths were already markedly decreasing prior to BHVPA. BHVPA also wasn't really all that effective until NICS was introduced in 1998, yet the decline continued between 93 and 98. In any case, I'm not really opposed to background checks, I just find it disingenuous when some people try to claim they would have prevented these mass shootings of late, when they would not.
 
Max Q
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RE: Has Anyone In America Been Saved By A Gun?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:46 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Correct. I never reported the attempted break-in i mentioned

Why didn't you report it ?


That's very irresponsible, that person could go and try the same thing again at another house.


Or were you hoping he would come back so you could play dirty Harry again ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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