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TheCommodore
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2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:37 pm

The reporter has found 43 instances this year alone, where a child 3 or younger, have found loaded guns, and shot somebody.

I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11529823

[Edited 2015-10-15 14:39:02]
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

See, this type of statement shows a lack of knowledge about the situation. Nobody finds this acceptable. Its how do we prevent it from happening in the future is the issue. Lots of different opinions, that's the problem.

Why does everyone have to be so cut and dry about this issue?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 1):
Why does everyone have to be so cut and dry about this issue?

Some people see the world in black and white. Their way is good. Any other way is evil.

In the case in the article, assuming it's true, the person who left the gun there should be punished.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 1):
See, this type of statement shows a lack of knowledge about the situation.

Lack of knowledge ?

How much clearer can you be...... ?

43 incidents this year alone ?

And the gun debate dose nothing but go around in circles, and absolutely NOTHING changes, and you call it a lack of understanding ?

What I see is a society, which is far from really wanting to tackle this serious issue head on.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 1):
Its how do we prevent it from happening in the future is the issue. Lots of different opinions, that's the problem.

But they are doing nothing about it.

How many threads, how many death before something changes and gun control is taken seriously in the USA.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Some people see the world in black and white. Their way is good. Any other way is evil.

Its not the case at all about being back and white, its just fact. Other developed countries have sensible controls in place so things like this don't happen, why is it different in the US ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
But they are doing nothing about it.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
43 incidents this year alone ?

Because its not a big deal to most people. It certainly is not a big deal to me because I've never experience it myself and nobody that I personally know has, either. And chances are it wont in the future. Its exceptionally rare.

There are just more important things for me to spend my time on trying to fix and worry about. Cancer, car accidents, bankruptcy, accidents, etc are all more important issues because they are more likely to make their way into my life than a gun incident. Until that changes for the average person we won't see much change.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
Because its not a big deal to most people.

Well sorry, but don't you think it should be a big deal for America ?

This problem is so endemic thats its gradually becoming normalised and acceptable for American to just shrug its shoulders and say ok, we area willing to put up with these unnecessary deaths every year in return for doing nothing about trying to put at least some measures in place to curb this happening

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
Its exceptionally rare.

Nearly one a week. I guess with the number of guns out there its rare, but its also easily avoidable .

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
Until that changes for the average person we won't see much change.

Point taken, but don't you think is rather sad, that we are all so concerned about finding a cure for cancer, bankruptcy etc yet we can't or won't do something easy about gun control measure.... it would be a lot easier than finding a cure for cancer and the results of doing something would be immediate.... young kids would be protected.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:10 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 6):
Well sorry, but don't you think it should be a big deal for America ?

I really don't know honestly. The vast majority of gun deaths are inner city criminals killing criminals so most don't care. I think there are more important, totally preventable causes of death out there to concentrate on. 500,000 Americans die a year from smoking. HALF A MILLION. And most really don't care to do much about it. How many thousands of people die due to drunk driving? Way more than random gun violence.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 6):
This problem is so endemic thats its gradually becoming normalised and acceptable for American to just shrug its shoulders and say ok,

Again, most gun deaths are among inner-city criminals so they effect a small percentage of people. These shootings that happen in schools and malls make up a tiny tiny fraction of tragic deaths. How many innocent people are maimed by cars every year vs random gun violence? A whole hell of a lot more than guns I'd bet.

I totally agree with you that guns are out of control here in America. I'd be first in line to control them. I'm just saying in the big picture there are other totally preventable ways to save a heck of a lot more lives than gun taking guns away. It's still a pretty insignificant problem in the big picture.
 
Alias1024
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
The reporter has found 43 instances this year alone, where a child 3 or younger, have found loaded guns, and shot somebody.

I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

It's certainly sad when accidents like this take place, and easily prevented with commom sense precautions by gun owners, but as ArmitageShanks said it is very rare. To put it in perspective, 43 instances in the US with a population over 318,000,000 is equivalent to just over three instances in Australia's population of a little more than 23,000,000. Would Australians be calling for major legislation to prevent accidents that happen about four times a year due to gross negligence?
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BMI727
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

I don't find it acceptable, which is part of why I don't own a gun and if I did I wouldn't keep it where a toddler could get it.

But that's just me. What other people find acceptable isn't my deal.
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WearyDrover
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:44 am

This is sad and it is unfortunate that some gun owners are negligent. If the owner (parent/ grandparent?) made sure that weapons were not left lying around but were properly stored these incidents wouldn't happen. There would still be incidents of accidental or deliberate shootings but toddlers wouldn't be the ones discharging a firearm.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
. Would Australians be calling for major legislation to prevent accidents that happen about four times a year due to gross negligence

Most, if not all, States have passed legislation requiring owners of swimming pools to install pool-fences with child-proof locks due to a small number of drownings by small children. Legislation also exists to prevent or reduce the incidence of deaths on mine and construction sites, so yes, Australians are supportive of laws to improve safety, including provision for the safe handling, storage and transport of firearms.

[Edited 2015-10-15 18:54:11]
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EA CO AS
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):

I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

Please show me a single instance of a U.S. citizen specifically stating that a child getting a hold of a firearm and accidentally shooting someone is acceptable.

I'll wait.
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TheCommodore
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:36 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
But that's just me. What other people find acceptable isn't my deal.

Surely, for the collective good of all US citizens, everyone should be concerned about this tragic, ongoing, tale.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Please show me a single instance of a U.S. citizen specifically stating that a child getting a hold of a firearm and accidentally shooting someone is acceptable.

I'll wait.

The complete and utter lack of anything changing with regard to improving gun ownership/handling/accessibility, and the whole gun debate saga, is instance enough !

You all appear to be absolute compiclae when it come to these things.

[Edited 2015-10-15 19:48:15]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
mham001
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

I can't understand why you spend so much energy worrying about it? Why?
 
Alias1024
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 13):
Most, if not all, States have passed legislation requiring owners of swimming pools to install pool-fences with child-proof locks due to a small number of drownings by small children.

But how many would support banning swimming pools due to those rare accidental drownings?

That's what we are really talking about. Gun control laws that would make it far more difficult, if not impossible to legally acquire a firearm. Nobody is ok with toddlers accidentally shooting people, just like nobody is ok with toddlers drowning in swimming pools. But just as there will always be negligent people that forget to close the gate around the pool, there will always be negligent people that inadvertently allow a loaded gun to fall into the hands of a child. You can only reasonably do so much to legislate against stupidity.
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WearyDrover
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):
You can only reasonably do so much to legislate against stupidity.

Agreed. While I do believe that there be minimum standards for gun ownership, including background checks, demonstrated proficiency and the like, I don't advocate a blanket ban. I realise that the second amendment would make any suggestion of banning outright problematic but that isn't my prime concern.

I just don't like the notion that everybody be penalised for the negligence or criminal actions of a minority. I am in favour of better education and training in the responsible handling, storage and use of firearms, as I am sure the majority of owners are, even if some might not like the idea of legislative controls.
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flyguy89
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
The reporter has found 43 instances this year alone, where a child 3 or younger, have found loaded guns, and shot somebody.

I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...29823

It's no more acceptable to Americans than the 39 pool drowning deaths that occurred in Australia in 2014 are to Australians.

Just as having a private pool very much statistically increases chances of drowning by nature of it being on your property, so to do private firearms of course increase the likelihood of a firearm accident occurring.

Just as an individual who decides they want a private pool or hot tub on their property accepts the inherent increased risks inherent in having a drowning hazard on their property, so to do people who choose to keep a firearm in their home.

Just as an individual owning a swimming pool or hot tub has every responsibility to mitigate those risks by ensuring proper supervision of children and building secure fencing and gates, so to do owners of private firearms.

Just as its unfortunate that pool accidents occur, its equally unfortunate when firearm accidents occur.

[Edited 2015-10-15 21:09:05]
 
Skydrol
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:50 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):
But how many would support banning swimming pools due to those rare accidental drownings?

Hey! Don't suggest something like that. Hard-pressed to find a diving board at public pools anymore, even if they are 13 feet deep.


A question to U.S, gun owners: Is it not a legal requirement for firearms to be kept locked securely in cabinets in their owner's homes? This is absolutely the case in Canada. I have friends who have a dozen or more guns, and one co-worker has more than 200 guns, but to maintain ownership certificates they must prove to police they are stored in secure, locked cabinets, to prevent theft and make them inaccessible to children. This certainly seems to be a good compromise to prevent children getting hurt or killed, by 'playing' with firearms lying in the open. Apparently there can be random inspections by police of gun storage safety and inventory. Friends had this occur last year, there wasn't a concern of number of guns, just that they are all accounted for.




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JJJ
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 26):
A question to U.S, gun owners: Is it not a legal requirement for firearms to be kept locked securely in cabinets in their owner's homes? This is absolutely the case in Canada.

It is in most countries, not just Canada.

Problem is: most handguns (not long guns) in the US are kept for home defense purposes, so keeping them locked pretty much defeats the purpose.

I am a competitive IPSC shooter. When I keep the gun at home it needs to be in a locked case or cabinet, with the ammo in a separate locked container. Most times though I keep them in my cabinet at the shooting club and only take it home for cleaning, maintenance, etc.

As long as the US public deems these incidents acceptable nothing will change.
 
BMI727
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:15 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
Surely, for the collective good of all US citizens, everyone should be concerned about this tragic, ongoing, tale.

No not really. Stupid people getting themselves doesn't keep me up at night and I wouldn't advocate anyone else getting stressed out over it either.
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redflyer
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
The reporter has found 43 instances this year alone, where a child 3 or younger, have found loaded guns, and shot somebody.

I really can't understand why so many Americans find this to be acceptable in their society ?

Over 12,000 children under the age of 5 are treated for poisoning in emergency rooms in the U.S. every year and of those, almost 1,000 face life altering consequences as a result. Household product poisoning is the #2 cause of death in children in the U.S. behind automobile accidents.

Why aren't we talking about these statistics instead?
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bgm
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 32):
Why aren't we talking about these statistics instead?

Because people don't go on mass killing sprees with Drano.

Remember folks, guns don't kill people. Toddlers do.   
 
YVRLTN
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:11 am

It would never have been possible for me to accidentally shoot anyone by finding a gun laying around on the back seat of a car I was in when I was two...

Or 12, 22 or 32 for that matter.
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seb146
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 48):
It would never have been possible for me to accidentally shoot anyone by finding a gun laying around on the back seat of a car I was in when I was two...

Or 12, 22 or 32 for that matter.

Right. Because Canada is not afraid of a lobbying group. So, Canada can make laws to make life more precious and above guns.

Just to be clear: people can still hunt game in Canada. No one has taken away guns. There are no "liberal gun grabbers" in Canada. Guns are still in Canada. They just decided that EVERY (read that word again) life is sacred. Unlike the States where only unborn life is sacred and the rest better have a gun and rich parents!
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blueflyer
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:44 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 8):
The vast majority of gun deaths are inner city criminals killing criminals so most don't care.

Over 60% of gun deaths are suicide. In about half the cases of suicide, the victim isn't the owner of the gun, but a friend or relative.

Suicide by gun also happens to be the leading cause of death among individuals who bought a firearm within the past 12 months. The presence of a gun in a home increases the likelihood that a member of the household will die of suicide by gun compared to a home without a gun.
 
L-188
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
Just like the NRA: shut down the discussion rather than take any accountability for your actions.

What actions?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 40):
What, because he's making good points?

I've seen his anti-freedom posts for a while now. He has yet to make any point, let alone a good one.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 45):
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

― Benjamin Franklin

Still True, despite what ignorant liberals think.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 49):
are no "liberal gun grabbers" in Canada

Really, so the Mounties didn't. break into flood victim's homes and steal their weapons and ammo without returning the materials or compensating them for the destruction they caused.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp...izures-during-2013-flood-1.2954483
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KaiGywer
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RE: 2y Found Gun, And Shot Grandmother

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:48 am

As expected, this is a topic where having a meaningful discussion is impossible. Thread locked.
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