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Aaron747
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Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:49 am

Amazingly, it's not Trump sideshow - but actually a nugget of uncomfortable truth coming from the GOP's unwanted poll leader: Jeb Bush can't make the argument GWB kept the US safe, because 9/11 happened on his watch.

Behold, the Tweet war:

The United States needs a leader, he said, as government "has proven to be a disaster" under the Obama administration.

Jeb Bush hit back at the remark later in the day on Twitter, writing, "How pathetic for @realDonaldTrump to criticize the president for 9/11. We were attacked & my brother kept us safe."

Late Friday, Trump responded on Twitter by calling Bush "pathetic" back. "No @JebBush, you're pathetic for saying nothing happened during your brother's term when the World Trade Center was attacked and brought down," he tweeted.


http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...9-11-on-george-w-bush-watch-214886

Pretty bold statement by Trump - question is, will this be enough for the GOP to push his ostracization to fever pitch, or will it help him even more?
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:36 am

Presidential Daily Briefing of August 6, 2001 said "Bin Laden determined to strike within the United States." September 11, 2001 was WHEN GEORGE W BUSH WAS IN OFFICE!!! Not Clinton, not Obama but JEB'S BROTHER!!!

This is a (non) issue by both men to keep themselves in the media.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:07 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
This is a (non) issue by both men to keep themselves in the media.

Staying in the news cycle is everything in the 24 hour news / social media age. My question isn't whether or not it's an actual issue - the question is: what can/won't the GOP do about it? This kind of rhetoric presents a fascinating dilemma for them, and the media are going to continue asking Trump these sorts of questions.

[Edited 2015-10-19 00:10:07]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:34 am

Heeeeeey! Oooooooooh! Stuff happens! There's always a crisis. Everyone calm down and blame someone not named Bush. 
Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Pretty bold statement by Trump - question is, will this be enough for the GOP to push his ostracization to fever pitch, or will it help him even more?

I love it. They deserve each other. I hope it escalates. Pull his weave Jeb!!
 
Max Q
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:09 am

Not a Trump fan but I couldn't agree more with him on this.


'W' was warned specifically about terrorists planning an attack using commercial airliners yet he did NOTHING.



He was responsible for the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor, how he gets away with this is beyond me and then he reacts completely irresponsibly getting us into two unnecessary wars (one of which is still going, the longest war in US history) killing thousands of people for no reason.


I can tell you this without a doubt, if a Democrat had been in office that day he would never have heard the end of it and rightly so.


Why did 'W' get away with it ?


He did more damage to this country than any other president in history.


'Kept us safe'



Seriously ?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
I can tell you this without a doubt, if a Democrat had been in office that day he would never have heard the end of it and rightly so.

I don't think it's necessarily a partisan thing even, for some reason on this topic he's just pure Teflon.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
Why did 'W' get away with it ?

Good question. The PNAC narrative was and still is ridiculous, but somehow enough people bought in to make it stick - bring democracy to the ME and all that horsecrap.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
'Kept us safe'

He did, after he didn't.  
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:16 am

And then Bush created the mess we have now in the Middle East by attacking Iraq. He de-stabilized the whole region when he invaded Iraq.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
Why did 'W' get away with it ?

I think everyone gives him a pass because he was a simpleton, a muppet with a couple of hands up has butt moving his mouth and head.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:17 am

You can't blame Bush for 911. 911 was the fault of lunatic terrorists and no matter how much security is put in place, you cannot stop terrorist acts.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 8):
You can't blame Bush for 911. 911 was the fault of lunatic terrorists and no matter how much security is put in place, you cannot stop terrorist acts.

You can stop them and they do stop them. 9/11 was telegraphed early on but the White House and security services failed to do anything.

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/i...could-have-stopped-911-299148.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/op...as-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0
 
BestWestern
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:23 pm

I'm not one to stand up for idiot Bush and his crony friends, but the US already decided this through reelecting Bush/Haliburton for a second term.

Time to move on and solve today's problems rather than worry about 2001.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:44 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 8):
You can't blame Bush for 911.

I don't think anyone here is officially blaming him, even though he did have intelligence at the time and could have acted on it. What Trump is mentioning is that Bush was president at the time, this is HIS event, and it was HIS to deal with.

This also brings about another issue: we can't blame Bush for 9/11, but we can blame Obama for Benghazi? There was only a major 9/11 commission and nothing else; 9/11 wasn't even brought up against Bush in '04, yet we're into the 8th hearing on Benghazi, after the first 7 arrived to the SAME conclusions, and somehow people want Obama's and Clinton's heads for it.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
Time to move on and solve today's problems rather than worry about 2001.

The problem is that many of today's problems came about from 9/11 and the decisions made after. War in Afghanistan? part of the War on Terror. ISIS? part of the War in Iraq, which was another theater in the War on Terror. The fact that the airline industry bled millions in the years after, however, was a result of that AND increased oil prices.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 8):
You can't blame Bush for 911. 911 was the fault of lunatic terrorists and no matter how much security is put in place, you cannot stop terrorist acts.

9/11 was a fault of lunatic terrorists, yes, but it also was very much a fault of long term failures of US foreign policy. Had western world mostly stayed out of Middle East since end of colonialism we wouldn't be in middle of such a mess right now. Unfortunately Republicans never seem to learn, as we saw when Bush decided to destabilize Middle East even more by invading Iraq.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):
What Trump is mentioning is that Bush was president at the time, this is HIS event, and it was HIS to deal with.

Well no actually, what Trump is saying is that had HE been on watch, it would not have happened because the terrorists would have been kicked out of the US. Helluva thing to say...in the same sentence that he says 'I'm not blaming Bush, but...'

Quoting pvjin (Reply 12):
Had western world mostly stayed out of Middle East since end of colonialism we wouldn't be in middle of such a mess right now.

The PNAC paradigm of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle et al sought to do precisely the opposite of that approach.
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:28 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
the question is: what can/won't the GOP do about it?

Benghazi! Don't talk about who was president then! Benghazi!!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):
I don't think anyone here is officially blaming him,

Yes. Yes, we are. We have been. It happened while he was president. When something happens nationally, like the stock market crashing or a terrorist attack or war, the president in office has their name forever attached to that event.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
He was responsible for the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor

I am no fan of Bush, but I find this statement appalling. The people responsible for 9/11 were the scumbags who planned and executed it.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

It's a very calculated statement, because it's factually true, but associates Bush with 9/11 and implies responsibility. Then Jeb is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He can't deny that Bush was in office when 9/11 happened. But he can't agree either, since that associates him with 9/11 too.

Expect to see a lot more of this if Trump becomes President. What a great diplomat he'll make.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 15):
Expect to see a lot more of this if Trump becomes President. What a great diplomat he'll make

Can't be any worse than the garbage we've had in office for the last 16 years, when he would be elected.

-DiamondFlyer
 
mt99
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:20 pm

What a bunch of children the GOP nominees are. They are on a race to our-crazy each other.. race for the bottom indeed,
 
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zckls04
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 16):
Can't be any worse than the garbage we've had in office for the last 16 years, when he would be elected.

Unfortunately that's simply not true. He can be far, far worse. We're not even close to the bottom of the barrel yet.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:45 pm

It wasn't just GWB who failed as to possibly preventing the 9/11 attacks, but also an incompetent CIA, FBI, NSA and other Federal agencies including for airport and passenger security, states who issued false drivers' licenses as well as the airlines lack of security were factors too.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 6):

And then Bush created the mess we have now in the Middle East by attacking Iraq. He de-stabilized the whole region when he invaded Iraq.

Bush was a patsy on the whole Iraq thing. That fiasco was really enacted by Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Fieth, et al. They just sold it to Bush and Bush was happy to go along, obviously.
 
wingman
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:37 pm

Bush and his henchmen are a lot of nasty things, but I'd never hold them responsible for "allowing" 9-11 to happen. That likely would've happened under anyone's watch. It's what they did afterward that was so monumentally disastrous. Razing two countries to the ground at such a stupefying expense and with zero forethought to the consequences (and yet somehow I can almost hear Cheney chuckling to Rummey that a Democrat would be a lock for the White House after their $2T escapade and they'd get Fox News to pin the blame on that poor sod..to wit, exactly what's happening right now).

When it comes to warfare in the Middle East Republicans can't tell their sphincter from a Krispy Creme. They can't tell a Fedex tube from an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile either so no surprise there. Anyway, Vlado's willing to take on the Middle East, I say "welcome" comrade. Have fun!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
'Kept us safe'
Seriously ?

....to an applause-line in the debate.


Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 6):
And then Bush created the mess we have now in the Middle East by attacking Iraq. He de-stabilized the whole region when he invaded Iraq.

  


Quoting ltbewr (Reply 19):
It wasn't just GWB who failed as to possibly preventing the 9/11 attacks, but also an incompetent CIA, FBI, NSA and other Federal agencies including for airport and passenger security

All of which are under the auspices of the Executive branch, meaning that the buck stops with the President.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:35 pm

We'll probably never know how negligent President Bush was or wasn't and if it's what everyone else in his situation would do. Even Iraq... there were a lot of people that were for the war that realize that it was a HUGE mistake. We need to learn from both and move on, that is my outlook.

Especially when we are dealing with Iran... seems like it's 2002/2003 all over again...

That all being said:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Benghazi

For the amount of crap President Obama has gotten for Benghazi, I can't even imagine the whining we'd hear if 9/11 happened under President Obama's watch. To me, the hypocrisy over 9/11 vs Benghazi is one of the most brazen and clear examples of BS I've ever seen in politics. The whole super over reaction the right had with Benghazi really turned me off to the Republican party (I feel like they left me heading to the right rather than me going to the left)
 
BestWestern
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:48 am

Another thing to point out is that Trump is again managing the GOP news cycle - it will become increasingly obvious that he will be one of the two GOP contenders for the White House.

If it's Trump vs Carson or Cruz - who would you pick? Yes they are all idiots and unelectable - but which one would you pick?
 
wingman
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:53 am

Trump all the way. He's going to fire China, build a wall on the Canadian border and renegotiate the ultimate win/lose nuke deal with the Ayatollahs. Comedic fodder for the Ages man, OMG I can't WAIT!
 
Pyrex
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 12):
9/11 was a fault of lunatic terrorists, yes, but it also was very much a fault of long term failures of US foreign policy. Had western world mostly stayed out of Middle East since end of colonialism we wouldn't be in middle of such a mess right now.

What a load of crap. For the most part prior to 9/11 the U.S. mostly stayed out the of the Middle East - the one time they did go in (Kuwait, 1991) was at their request, to save their asses from themselves - make sure upper middle class Saudis like the assholes that crashed into the buildings could go on with torturing their Fillipino housemaids without actually having to fight Saddam by themselves. 9/11 happened because Islam is a religion chock-full of extremist nutjobs hell-bent on destroying the West, and there is no more visible symbol of that than two giant towers in the middle of downtown NYC (no matter how many people in NYC probably agree with that fucked-up logic).

Now if Bernie Sanders was a President in 2001 then he probably would have immediately proceeded to apologize for letting the evil banks put up those towers in the flight-path of the planes in the first place, but luckily for the entire civilized world he was not.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
To me, the hypocrisy over 9/11 vs Benghazi is one of the most brazen and clear examples of BS I've ever seen in politics.

The issue about Benghazi was not the warning they may or may not have had (let's face it, if you are "in the know" you probably get those types of warnings every day), it was, as usual the cover-up, how they tried to throw some guy who put up a video on YouTube under the bus.
 
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 9):
You can't blame Bush for 911. 911 was the fault of lunatic terrorists and no matter how much security is put in place, you cannot stop terrorist acts.

Jeb Bush,is blaming Hilary for Benghazi. because it happened on her watch, then he turns around and says we are not suppose to blame his brother for what happened on his watch.

Funny how that works.

[Edited 2015-10-19 19:00:34]
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
9/11 happened because Islam is a religion chock-full of extremist nutjobs hell-bent on destroying the West

The Inquisition and the Crusades happened because Christianity is chock-full of extremist nutjobs hell-bent on destroying the Middle East.

Both Christianity and Islam have nut jobs. No question. But, the majority just want to be left alone. In both religions. Why can't people understand that religion is being twisted and perverted by a few in order to murder and spread fear?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
Now if Bernie Sanders was a President in 2001

That was an odd thing to say. I guess you are just trying to strike first?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
The issue about Benghazi was not the warning they may or may not have had (let's face it, if you are "in the know" you probably get those types of warnings every day), it was, as usual the cover-up, how they tried to throw some guy who put up a video on YouTube under the bus.

The issue about Benghazi is the Republicans are not getting the answers they want. They started off with the answer they wanted but nothing added up to it. So, they kept this stupid "select committee" going because they want that answer they agreed on. There was no cover-up. We know what happened. No matter how long this drags out and how many billions of our tax dollars are spent, we know what happened. Just accept it and move on already.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
The issue about Benghazi was

Yeah of course. Anyone can find something wrong with people they don't like and can defend the people they do like. My thoughts (and in my opinion, the laughable lack of evidence of an actual wrong doing that matters aside) what pissed me off about Benghazi was the instant it happened it was a witch hunt. I heavily listened to right wing radio during that time (still do today, in addition to other sources) and it was shameful at how they mindlessly went after the administration.

Every. Step. Every. Piece. Obama's fault, no matter what it was. When one thing was thrown out it was never acknowledged, they just moved onto the next thing. Then it *coincidentally* shifted to Hilary. Yeah, totally trust the integrity of those perpetrating this witch hunt.

I still read into the occasional new piece of Benghazi information (not sure why I bother but I at least try and keep an open mind on the matter still) and remain impressed.

But again, all ^ aside, I would bet a lot of money (A LOT) that if we somehow could flip Bush with Obama in regards to 9/11 and Benghazi, you would see very, very different reactions (and to be fair, you'd see a lot of liberals swapping how they behave.) Too bad there is no way to test this bet, I'd be a rich man. In other words, if 9/11 happened under Obama we'd hear about this for centuries, and if Benghazi happened during Bush, herp derp stuff happens
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
For the most part prior to 9/11 the U.S. mostly stayed out the of the Middle East - the one time
they did go in (Kuwait, 1991)

Sorry but this is just plain, hopelessly wrong.     The laundry list of interventions in the middle east is long and distinct:

- Plays for Persian oil against the USSR culminating in the Mossadeh / Shah episode in Iran
- force intervention in Lebanon from the 1950s on
- massive assistance and arms sales to both KSA and Israel
- CIA assistance to Nasser in Egypt, payments to the Muslim Brotherhood, then direct aid to Mubarak from 1981 on
- assistance to Iraq to stave off Iran
- assistance to Syria and Iran to stave off Iraq
- CIA assistance to Afghanistan to counter Soviet threat
- CIA assistance and direct aid to Syria 1960 onward to counter Soviet influence

For further education on the subject, an excellent summation by the libertarian Cato Institute here:

http://www.cato.org/publications/pol...st-world-war-ii-folly-intervention
 
Pyrex
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:30 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
The laundry list of interventions in the middle east is long and distinct:

Absolute pittance compared to what the European powers were doing at the same time, and absolutely nothing compared to the stuff Arabs are perfectly capable of doing to themselves on a daily basis. The fact is before 1991 most Americans wouldn't even know where the Middle East is on the map - the United States didn't even do anything after Islamic terrorists killed over 240 Marines in Beirut (the single largest loss of Marine lives since Iwo Jima).
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:50 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
Arabs are perfectly capable of doing to themselves on a daily basis

Capable but don't.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
the United States didn't even do anything after Islamic terrorists killed over 240 Marines in Beirut (the single largest loss of Marine lives since Iwo Jima).

And Reagan did nothing. NOTHING AT ALL!!! No invasion of Iran and no occupation of Sudan and no bombings if Banghladesh. Nothing over killing of Americans in Lebanon.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 31):
The fact is before 1991 most Americans wouldn't even know where the Middle East is on the map - the United States didn't even do anything after Islamic terrorists killed over 240 Marines in Beirut (the single largest loss of Marine lives since Iwo Jima).

Ridiculous straw man. Your original assertion was that it's crap to suggest failed foreign policies contributed to the worldviews of those 19 lunatics that day, based on the US 'mostly staying out of the Middle East until 1991'. That is shown to be a factually false statement, which you then turn around to Americans not finding the ME on the map. This does not counter the arguments in any meaningful, much less factual way.

You can employ emotional arguments and logical fallacies all day, none of it changes that the State Department, CIA, and Presidents DID find the ME on a map, and managed to prop up dictators, play countries off one another, and royally piss off unemployed theology-crazed young men for better than 45 years. As the Cato paper says, this does not excuse radical murder, but it explains the environment and mindset that promote it. If that can't be grasped, it might be time to re-take Critical Thinking 101.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2015-10-19 20:53:53]
 
StarAC17
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
Especially when we are dealing with Iran... seems like it's 2002/2003 all over again...

How do, the president along with the leaders of the most powerful countries in the world negotiated a deal with Iran to not engage them militarily and negotiate with them. Now unless Iran is lying (which many of you believe) or Israel does some preemptive strikes against Iran the goal of the US government is not to start crap with them.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
For the amount of crap President Obama has gotten for Benghazi, I can't even imagine the whining we'd hear if 9/11 happened under President Obama's watch.

If an attack like this were to happen on Obama's watch the GOP would try the man for capital murder, failing that they would try to impeach him.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 24):
Another thing to point out is that Trump is again managing the GOP news cycle - it will become increasingly obvious that he will be one of the two GOP contenders for the White House.

Trump is managing the entire news cycle because the news networks only care about ratings. In the past they actually called the sideshow candidate on their BS and now they walk on eggshells around Trump because the man is so thin skinned that any questioning of him means he might not talk to them. This also extends beyond Trump, Chuck Todd has admitted many times that he can't hold people's feet to the fire on Meet the Press out of fear of a boycott from politicians.

It is actually pretty funny watching and not being an American.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 24):
If it's Trump vs Carson or Cruz - who would you pick? Yes they are all idiots and unelectable - but which one would you pick?

How is Cruz still in this?
 
Max Q
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:54 am

'w' was criminally negligent with respect to 9-11.



He was specifically warned about those type of attacks yet did nothing so yes, he was responsible.



If you are the Captain of a ship and you choose to ignore specific threats against your vessel and its sunk you WILL
be held responsible.


Why 'w' skated on this is quite unbelievable, if it had been a Democratic administration in office then we would still
be having hearings to this day.


The contrast between his confirmed negligence on the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor and the admitted witch hunt against Hillary over Benghazi is telling.



No question it was tragic but FOUR people died in Benghazi.



Over 3000 died on 9-11 while 'w' snoozed and thousands and thousands more died in the two unnecessary wars that followed.



Neither 'w' or any of his henchmen, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc will EVER be held accountable for that.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
How is Cruz still in this?

Cruz is in this thanks to the ultra ultra right bankrolling him and his friends in the casino and news industry promoting him.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):
If you are the Captain of a ship and you choose to ignore specific threats against your vessel and its sunk you WILL be held responsible

You can't compare a ship and a nation the size of the US.

The Bengazi and 9/11 double standards are lost on the Republicans it seems.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
How do, the president along with the leaders of the most powerful countries in the world negotiated a deal with Iran to not engage them militarily and negotiate with them. Now unless Iran is lying (which many of you believe) or Israel does some preemptive strikes against Iran the goal of the US government is not to start crap with them.

I'm not talking about the deal, I'm talking about the extreme rhetoric coming from a lot of our politicians and pundits against Iran. They are, ironically, the same ones that whine and complain about what the extremists in Iran say about the US. The irony is completely lost on them.

I mean we have politicians implying assassination or at least death in general (Cruz,) going to war (many,) and even nuking IIRC Iran. And then they wonder why many of them don't particularly like us (not to mention all the stuff we did in the past that we are so quick to brush off as insignificant.)

And before anyone pounces on me, of course Iran's leaders are by and large bad/crazy. A lot of our guys and past actions sure aren't helping
 
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n229nw
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 33):
You can employ emotional arguments and logical fallacies all day, none of it changes that the State Department, CIA, and Presidents DID find the ME on a map, and managed to prop up dictators, play countries off one another, and royally piss off unemployed theology-crazed young men for better than 45 years. As the Cato paper says, this does not excuse radical murder, but it explains the environment and mindset that promote it. If that can't be grasped, it might be time to re-take Critical Thinking 101.

Nice.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 26):
Now if Bernie Sanders was a President in 2001 then he probably would have immediately proceeded to apologize for letting the evil banks put up those towers in the flight-path of the planes in the first place, but luckily for the entire civilized world he was not.

Just how would it be bad for the free world if there was no civil war in Iraq (or probably Syria), if Iran's right-wingers hadn't been empowered by the turmoil next door? And if there weren't way, way, more eager recruits for ISIS and its like than if the Iraq war hadn't been started?

Oh, riiiiight: in alternate reality land, staring unjust wars and killing lots of people makes those people like you, because they can see that you are "strong man like Stalin" and "kick some ass"!!
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:01 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Sorry but this is just plain, hopelessly wrong. The laundry list of interventions in the middle east is long and distinct:

- Plays for Persian oil against the USSR culminating in the Mossadeh / Shah episode in Iran
- force intervention in Lebanon from the 1950s on
- massive assistance and arms sales to both KSA and Israel
- CIA assistance to Nasser in Egypt, payments to the Muslim Brotherhood, then direct aid to Mubarak from 1981 on
- assistance to Iraq to stave off Iran
- assistance to Syria and Iran to stave off Iraq
- CIA assistance to Afghanistan to counter Soviet threat
- CIA assistance and direct aid to Syria 1960 onward to counter Soviet influence

these issues proabably don't help the US in the Middle East either:

* Sabotaging the Oslo deal between Israel and Palestine pritty much from day one, by continuesly backing up Israel in the UN instead of working for a solution that would work for both parties.
* Allowing Israel to have nukes, without oversight

[Edited 2015-10-20 14:09:11]
 
StarAC17
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):
I'm not talking about the deal, I'm talking about the extreme rhetoric coming from a lot of our politicians and pundits against Iran. They are, ironically, the same ones that whine and complain about what the extremists in Iran say about the US. The irony is completely lost on them.

I mean we have politicians implying assassination or at least death in general (Cruz,) going to war (many,) and even nuking IIRC Iran. And then they wonder why many of them don't particularly like us (not to mention all the stuff we did in the past that we are so quick to brush off as insignificant.)

I think in the bigger picture what a few kooks say in congress in pretty meaningless at the present moment and the leaders of the nations that signed this deal are smart enough to know it's hot air and Iran is not scared. Even if someone like Trump, Cruz etc was to be elected I think these military professionals should be able to talk sense into them I hope.

What I would worry about is that Israel attacks Iran on its own and expects the US to clean up the mess, Bibi might just be that nuts.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 40):
What I would worry about is that Israel attacks Iran on its own and expects the US to clean up the mess, Bibi might just be that nuts.

i wouldn't worry about that, unless your think congress would clean up his mess. Oh!
 
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seb146
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 41):
i wouldn't worry about that, unless your think congress would clean up his mess. Oh!

This Congress would DEMAND action NOW!!! Headed by right wingers? Yeah, they would want Iran obliterated because Israel is always the victim.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 34):
If an attack like this were to happen on Obama's watch the GOP would try the man for capital murder, failing that they would try to impeach him.

There is already talk of impeaching Hillary in November 2016....

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36):
The Bengazi and 9/11 double standards are lost on the Republicans it seems.

They are not even close to the same. Because of budget cuts, there was not the security detail in Libya there could have been. The head of the team in Benghazi was asked, point blank, if he wanted more security and he declined.

Al-Qaida was already on the radar screen. US security already knew they were a credible threat. They had tried to blow up the World Trade Center from the basement. That didn't work. Because of OKC and WTC, there was security around buildings. So, logically, what was next? It may not have been able to be prevented, but something could have been done. It seems W and crew did little.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 40):
I think in the bigger picture what a few kooks say in congress in pretty meaningless at the present moment and the leaders of the nations that signed this deal are smart enough to know it's hot air and Iran is not scared.

But it's absolutely not meaningless. It's giving the right wing in Iran ammo (and pretty good ammo IMO) to use against the US and drum up support for themselves. The crazy crap they say absolutely is not helping.

Flip sides and note the reaction and consequences of the Iranians saying hostile things... I'm sure our kooks have the same effect on their people...
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
There is already talk of impeaching Hillary in November 2016....

yep, all they have to do is find a GOP leader that they all can stand behind.
 
UA444
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:57 am

The 9/11 commission determined there was little evidence when, how and where attacks would occur. Clinton bears just as much blame as Bush. The USS Cole happened on his watch and the embassy bombongs, all done by Al Qaeda. And Clinton also had Bin Laden in his grasp and he was able to slip away.
 
Max Q
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 45):
And Clinton also had Bin Laden in his grasp and he was able to slip away.

So did 'w' for eight years and still wasn't able to get him, despite the deaths of thousands of innocent
people.


It took Obama to do that.
 
Max Q
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36):
You can't compare a ship and a nation the size of the US.

I can compare anything I want , the concept is quite valid and relevant.


The Captain of a ship is responsible for it, the President is responsible
for this country, he failed that responsibility miserably.


'w' was asleep at the wheel on 9-11, a terrible failure as a President, responsible for
more damage to this country than ANY other President.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23963
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 45):
Clinton also had Bin Laden in his grasp and he was able to slip away.

Because Ken Starr and Kosovo.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 45):
The 9/11 commission

Appointed by who?

Iraq was in check with the no-fly zones. Saddam was no threat to anyone but Iran. Iran was no threat to anyone but Saddam. Al-Qaida was in alliance with Taliban. We all knew it. There was not enough international support to invade Afghanistan. The right did not want Clinton to be a war hero president. Not giving Clinton a pass, but the right needs to accept responsibility for 9/11. Clinton could not do anything without Congressional support. Which was controlled by Republicans. Who were more interested in catching Clinton lying about the definition of "the".
 
UA444
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RE: Trump's GOP Anathema: 9/11 Was On GWB's Watch

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 46):

It took Obama to get him after having enough intelligence, some of which came from the Bush era.

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