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LAX772LR
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 46):
I know what you mean, I remember back when we used to use paper banknotes instead of plastic they were pretty revolting. I am sure that I read somewhere the old notes were supposedly hotbeds of infection.

I've seen so many horrible things done with cash. The worst was in the same day, I saw someone wipe their dripping nose with a dollar.... and later that night, a friend hand a stripper a dollar with his teeth. Just sat there thinking "what if that had been that dollar that that gross bearded creep was just blowing snot all over?"

Ugh. Cash. Nasty.



Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 46):
Does the US still use actual paper banknotes ?

Nope, and it hasn't for decades. US "paper" money is actually cotton cloth, with about 25% linen added for strength and strands of silk to bind them together.

Feels like paper, but there's no wood content at all, so it technically cannot be.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Kiwirob
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 49):

I give each of my cards reasonable use (yes, sometimes a little bit unreasonable but if that's kept seldom then it's healthy) which makes the issuers interested in raising my credit limits. Which, properly managed, makes my score climb ever higher.

Works a bit differently in Norway, the banks here like you to have fewer credit cards. I had 4, three personal, one from my company, my bank manager asked me to get ride of one. I have no CC debt, but had nearly 1 million NOK in available credit.
 
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larshjort
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:08 pm

I have recieved ~8 cheques in my life. 7 of them was a birthday present from my grandfather, he would go to the bank and buy cheques on a special gift stock to give as presents. The last was money I had paied too much in heat and water I got back after I moved from the apartment.

I have never written a cheque myself. If you buy something expensive in Denmark you use a bank transfer or a card. We have the Dankort in Denmark with no fees to the customer.

/Lars
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prebennorholm
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 43):
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 33):Cash will disappear very fast in the future.
What evidence leads you to conclude that?

From next year it will in most cases be optional for shops to accept cash. Government simply cancelled the law which stated that cash is always legal payment for at least smaller amounts.

I can guarantee that from 1 January at 00:01 o'clock, here you will have a hard time filling your car at a gas station using cash.

Many shops have already organized things the way, that when you pay with cash, then you step up in one single queue where cash payment is an option.

When abandoning cash, shops will save fortunes in insurance fees, and a lot of administrative struggle. Shop robberies will mostly be a thing of the past.

The banks were the first "shops" to become cashfree. There is no way I can go to my bank and get cash. If I ask them for money, they will tell me to go on the street and find an ATM machine. It has been like that for years.

Ten years ago I could still get cash in the bank. Barely. If I asked for more than a couple hundred bucks, then they would start a time delayed "open the box procedure", long enough for the police to react on an alarm. That made a one minute bank visit last 20 or 30 minutes, and we learned the lesson to use electronic payments.

Maybe it is different here, simply because we never had security guards at banks.

More and more small payments are nowadays done with smartphone apps. Also debit cards, issued during the last several years, have a built in transponder, and at more and more places we make wireless payment of small amounts (today up to $30).

And since this is an aviation forum, when were you last time on a flight where you could pay a Coke and sandwich with cash? Twenty years ago an FA would carry a five lb wallet around the neck with different rooms for all the various currencies. Today he/she has a card reader. Maybe it's different on the west side of the pond where you have a single currency. The five Nordic countries, with combines population about half of CA, have five different currencies, and there are no plans to change that.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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WarRI1
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:31 am

Greetings from the land of banking fees, and governments ability to track your money. I have never heard such nonsense, credit cards and cash and checks are not going anywhere here anytime soon. We personally use online banking, cash, credit cards and checks. I have had credit cards since I was eighteen years old. Just a few years now. If you want the banks to screw you more, the government to track your finances and lose the freedom and savings of cash transactions, you are to put it mildly fools.  Wow!
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Tugger
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:01 am

Checks will never go away. They will reduce but they are the best way to exchange money that does not require electronics/electricity and in the case of large amounts: large bundles of cash.

Also as others have noted, for business it a key and important element. Even worldwide, checks are sent and received by businesses. I know Fortune 100 corporations that changed to electronic transfer for payments and then changed back to paper checks for payments to vendors.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Kiwirob
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 58):
Checks will never go away. They will reduce but they are the best way to exchange money that does not require electronics/electricity and in the case of large amounts: large bundles of cash.

They've managed to go away in most first world countries, America will eventually follow.
 
rugger
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:57 am

Old people will still write checks until the day they die. I use by debit card to pay for most day to day spending. For large purchases I'll use a credit card.

But I have heard older people (60+) say things like "A debit card? I won't allow one of those in my house!"

"Debit cards enable hackers to access your bank accounts!"

"My bank keeps sending me a debit card and I keep cutting them up and sending them back, they are bad juju!"

With attitudes like that no wonder checks are still being written in the US.
 
Airstud
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:10 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 60):
"Debit cards enable hackers to access your bank accounts!"

And when you tell them that when hackers break into the bank's systems they can roger all of the accounts there whether or not the account-holder uses a debit card, they say... ?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
lapa_saab340
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting Rugger (Reply 60):
Old people will still write checks until the day they die. I use by debit card to pay for most day to day spending. For large purchases I'll use a credit card.

Why would you use a debit card instead of credit card, or cash? Especially in the US, where only now chip technology is being finally introduced...

If your debit card becomes compromised (not unheard of for magnetic stripe cards) and someone makes fraudulent purchases with it, the money will already have come out of your checking account by the time you become aware of it. Now it's up to you to contact your bank and even if you eventually get your money back it's YOUR headache that YOU will have to resolve.

Same thing happening with a credit card? It's the bank's problem to deal with. Credit card over debit card is a no brainer.

Or simply use cash. As someone else pointed elsewhere, cash is king.
 
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Tugger
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 59):
They've managed to go away in most first world countries, America will eventually follow.

Then I don't what is happening to all the checks my current and my former companies sent to their vendors in Europe. I guess the companies just get to keep the cash.

Billions of dollars are transacted via a physical check that is sent to vendors overseas.

Quoting Rugger (Reply 60):
Old people will still write checks until the day they die. I use by debit card to pay for most day to day spending. For large purchases I'll use a credit card.

Then you do not know what debit card is (in the USA). Less protection for you, higher costs for the merchant (which in the end means higher costs for you and everyone).

Quoting lapa_saab340 (Reply 62):
Why would you use a debit card instead of credit card, or cash? Especially in the US, where only now chip technology is being finally introduced...

If your debit card becomes compromised (not unheard of for magnetic stripe cards) and someone makes fraudulent purchases with it, the money will already have come out of your checking account by the time you become aware of it. Now it's up to you to contact your bank and even if you eventually get your money back it's YOUR headache that YOU will have to resolve.

Same thing happening with a credit card? It's the bank's problem to deal with. Credit card over debit card is a no brainer.

I use either a credit card (that I pay off fully each month) or my bank ATM card (i.e. a non-branded card) for most point-of-sale transactions. American consumers are simply lazy about becoming informed about what "debit cards" (i.e. bank cards tied directly to their bank accounts and issued under Visa and MC etc. brands payment systems) actually are and there potential issues. I say potential because many banks provide "grace periods" for fraud etc. that make them seem similar to actual in force credit card protections but even then there are still problems. In addition to the fact that they can change the terms at any time (which we all know they do).

I use a credit card because the protections imposed and benefits gained are worth it for me, that same cost/value is not present in debit cards.

Branded cards add approximately 3-5% additional cost burden to merchants and that cost is passed onto the consumers of course. What are known as ATM cards operate on the STAR and CIRRUS have much lower fees for merchants. But Americans just pay attention to the million dollar marketing that Visa and MC push and don't think of the additional money they are paying in the end.

Tugg

[Edited 2015-10-23 08:20:27]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
nws2002
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:38 pm

I don't even write a check for rent anymore. Although because my landlord isn't setup for electronic payment I use my bank's bill pay system and the bank ends up printing and mailing a check for me. The last time I wrote a check was for the deposit on my current rental.

The majority of my bills are setup to autopay using either my credit card or ACH. I only use ACH if they don't accept credit cards or charge a fee for credit cards. The only current bill not setup for autopay is my cable bill, and that is because they can't seem to get it right and require a call each month to fix it.

My checks still have my parent's address on it, from when I lived there and opened the account. They still work, no one has ever said anything about them.
 
mham001
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:54 pm

We use both electronic payments and checks regularly. Checks are good for person to person transactions who do not have easy access to banking services. Also cheaper than some transaction fees. My daughters dojo costs us $3 or $5 a month more to pay electronically for example. We give them a check so we have a record of paying, but I see a lot of cash flowing in.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 33):
Cash will disappear very fast in the future. Cash is mostly for drug dealers. I see less than 1% of my income and expenses as cash.

Yeah, that's not going to happen here. It's mind boggling how much control over their life people are willing to give to their government and the bankers who write the laws. The ability of people to conduct unfettered commerce is fundamental.

I receive cash from two tenants every month (their choice). I like cash, I let my kids count it, they learn how it's earned and its value.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 53):
From next year it will in most cases be optional for shops to accept cash.

See, that would be discrimination against the poor, many of whom do not have enough money to maintain a bank account.

And there is simply no way I will ever trust the banking industry with 100% of my well-being.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 8):
Well I only write a single cheque each month and that's to my landlord for my rent. There is no other way to pay him as he's simply not set up for it.

All my other bills are electronic and paid directly thru my bank's website.
Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
I've often paid my rent via check. A lot of landlords are small-time, have a handful of properties (or just 1) and don't want to set up an online payment system.

My bank's online banking system will print and mail a check if the recipient isn't set up for electronic transfer.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 53):
And since this is an aviation forum, when were you last time on a flight where you could pay a Coke and sandwich with cash?

Thousands of times a day on many regional jets... Well, maybe not the Coke since those are free, but if you want alcohol, you have to pay cash on the smaller RJs, while as the large RJs and mainline planes are cash free. I never understood why until a FA told me it's because they need internet connectivity to make sure the card is good.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 35):
I really don't understand this, why not set up an automated transfer?

It's not an option, otherwise I would.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
rugger
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting lapa_saab340 (Reply 59):

Why would you use a debit card instead of credit card, or cash? Especially in the US, where only now chip technology is being finally introduced...

At my bank debit cards have the same protections that credit cards have. I've been using my debit card for the last 15 years and never had it compromised yet. It's a matter of convenience and safety. Why walk around with a lot of money on you when you don't need to?

Quoting Tugger (Reply 60):
Then you do not know what debit card is (in the USA). Less protection for you, higher costs for the merchant (which in the end means higher costs for you and everyone).

Nope you got it wrong. Debit cards are cheaper for the merchant then credit cards are. There are fees associated with taking credit cards. MC & Visa are around 3% and Amex is 4% or so. Debit cards are 1 or 2%. And my bank doesn't charge me anything to use my debit card. In fact, my checking account is totally free of all charges, even checks are free!
As I said earlier, my bank says that if my debit card has the Visa logo on it, it's covered just as one of their credit cards are.
We have gone around on this subject before here. I suggest you have a nice serious sit down with your favorite banker and get yourself some banking education.

Now let me give you all a little lesson in paying your bills via you online bill pay system! There is your hole!

If you say make a payment using an electronic funds transfer, or have your bank print a check and send it for you this can happen to you.

When paying electronically, your bank can reverse the transmission of your funds for up to five years after the funds transfer was made! Yes, it's not a state law, it's the in the Federal Banking Law concerning fund transfers between banks.

Here is what happened. I paid my mortgage using my banks online electronic bill paying system. They sent the money to the bank handling my mortgage as I requested. Six months later I get a letter from my mortgage bank saying I am one month behind on my mortgage payment. I call them, give them the reference codes from the bank that issued to payments figuring I was all set. Nope, they wanted to see bank statements showing I made the payments each month. I sent those off to the mortgage bank. So the mortgage bank told me to go to the issuing bank find out what the ACH codes were for those payments and send them to the mortgage bank. I did. I called the mortgage bank and nobody there seemed to know anything about this. All they could say is "you missed a payment last April", but my statement for April shows they received the payment and I have never been late in over 12 years of having this mortgage.
So I go down to a branch of the mortgage bank (Chase) and ask to see a bank officer. Nope, none there. The only people there are Chase agents to sell you financial products.They can't help you. The originating bank is the same way.
All they say is "We see you made the payment and Chase has it. We have the ACH codes for their receipt of the payment". So I get the codes and send them to Chase. Chase said they will investigate. By this time I start getting phone calls from Chase collections threatening foreclosure if I don't bring the account current by TODAY!

Finally three months later Chase gets back to me. They said that 60 days after the payment was made the originating bank reversed the credit from my mortgage account. In other words they went into my Chase account and pulled a mortgage payment back. Chase sent me the notice they received from the bank when they did this. It only said "Reverse Debit" and the amount. Nothing more. So I take this down to the originating bank, who deny this ever happened. They said if they did this the mortgage payment should be sitting in my bank account. It never made it back there. So they wanted ME to explain where the money went.

So here we are two years later and the entire time nobody from either bank wants to discuss this. The originating bank said Chase received the payment so their part of the transaction is complete. Chase said the original bank took back the payment and there is nothing more that they can do. The only thing I can do now is hire an attorney specializing in mortgage financing for $10K retainer.

I have contacted the banking commissions about this. They investigated and found that the originating bank did send the funds over to Chase and that was the end of the story. There is nothing more that they can do. But they did remind me that any bank can reverse any transfer made for up to five years for any reason they see fit. In the meantime, I pay my mortgage each month by check at a Chase location. Checks cannot be reversed like bank transfers can.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 62):
See, that would be discrimination against the poor, many of whom do not have enough money to maintain a bank account.




I would say that millions here do not have bank accounts. We do have payday lenders though for the poor in R.I. A great service for the poor says the industry and they have stopped reform in its tracks every time.






And there is simply no way I will ever trust the banking industry with 100% of my well-being.

They are not honorable and will not be anytime soon. Those days are gone, if they ever existed. I agree, neither would I, nor my wife who was in banking.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Okie
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 62):
See, that would be discrimination against the poor, many of whom do not have enough money to maintain a bank account.

It would be just the opposite. Those without accounts pay as much as 15% fees for check cashing companies to cash checks and fees for money orders for the unbanked.

Most banks have econo accounts for personal use that do not charge fees or a small fee for less than 10 checks a month and issue a debt card.

You just have to realize that there is a reason that people do not use banks whether regarding distrust or prevention of the prying eyes for various reasons. Usually the latter.

Okie
 
prebennorholm
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:19 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 62):
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 53):From next year it will in most cases be optional for shops to accept cash.
See, that would be discrimination against the poor, many of whom do not have enough money to maintain a bank account.

All Danes must have a bank account. Otherwise the state cannot refund excess income tax, pay your student's salary etc. (there are a few exceptions, being a permanent client at a mental hospital and such).

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 63):
you have to pay cash on the smaller RJs, while as the large RJs and mainline planes are cash free. I never understood why until a FA told me it's because they need internet connectivity to make sure the card is good.

For decades it has worked perfectly well with a small off line handheld credit card machine, which periodically has transactions downloaded on a computer, and uploaded updates to a blacklist. It's nothing special for airliners. Many ground based restaurants use the same system - saves the waiters an awful lot of footsteps.

Quoting Rugger (Reply 57):
Old people will still write checks until the day they die.

I just made a search about "checks" on my bank's web site. There was only one single notice:

They told that the "Finance Council" (a strategic interbank cooperation body) has decided to end domestic checks by end 2016. That will save a lot of struggle in the legal system.

My bank has responded by immediately stopping renewing checkbooks.

The replacement, where debit card isn't appropriate, is their smartphone app, which has functioned brilliantly for years. Works on all iPhones and Android powered phones.

[Edited 2015-10-23 20:23:21]
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
mham001
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 67):
It would be just the opposite. Those without accounts pay as much as 15% fees for check cashing companies to cash checks and fees for money orders for the unbanked.

As opposed to the $35 bank fee (per transaction!) when they don't realize they are overdrawn and the card still works.

See what happens when you eliminate cash, you are mandated to have some third party between all your transactions (for a fee of course), giving them ample opportunity to steal your money. And the receiver, they are generally given a direct pipeline into your account. This has bit me twice and thankfully, we resisted auto pay with ATT or they would have stolen $75 last month that they overbilled us. Have you ever disputed a charge at ATT? Many calls, many hours, many stories. The bank would say that they can do nothing, in fact one time it was hard for me to even stop an auto payment.
 
rugger
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:42 am

And in some states, once you give a company the authority to auto debit your bill from your checking account you can't stop it just by telling them to stop. You'll have to close out that checking account and open another.

These are things that you aren't told of when you open you bank accounts. I think there needs to be some kind of disclosure on this upfront.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:53 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 64):
It's not an option, otherwise I would.

I doubt that's truly the case.

Unless you live in the absolute middle of nowhere, chances are there's at least one major banking brand somewhere near you... and nearly all of them will allow you to make electronic payments from your account, that they can even convert to physical cheques if they need to.

Heck, most smaller banks and credit unions do it nowadays too.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
Until online payments can totally un-suck themselves, I'll still be writing checks here and there.

That's basically why I still write checks. I write about 30 a year, just under half of them for my mortgage. They actually charge a convenience fee to pay online. How stupid is that? Why would they make it harder to take money from their customers? Pretty sad that what I pay for envelopes, stamps and checks is a tiny small fraction of that convenience fee. Maybe somebody figures they'll make more money that way given people want to pay online. I doubt it works out that way because it incentivizes me to mail it sometime between the 1st but before the 16th when late fees kick in instead of setting up autopay. I have noticed though my cursive handwriting has drastically deteriorated only writing 2 or 3 checks a month. I forget how to make some of the letters too. This is a trend that is disturbing to some Asian cultures that traditionally valued calligraphy skills writing intricate characters. So many young people only know how to write their name and that's about it. Everything else is auto generated after typing in the latin alphabet equavalent into a computer or cell phone. Texting was huge in Japan before it was in the US for exactly this reason even with 2G no so smart phones.
 
tommy1808
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Thread starter):
What's stopping them from being obsolete now?

How are they obsolete? I´ve never ever in my life written one, having a "checking" account for over 24 years, but i do get them all the time. Why in gods name would i give my health insurance, energy suppliers or other entities my account number and keep them up to date when i switch banks? I check circumvents all of that, they just write "account-only check" on it, if push come to shove it could be found out which account it goes in, but it is one less company to have that personal information. But then again, German may be the only language that has one word for "data reduction and data economy": Datensparsamkeit.

best regards
Thomas
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jetblueguy22
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:28 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 71):

I doubt that's truly the case.

Unless you live in the absolute middle of nowhere, chances are there's at least one major banking brand somewhere near you... and nearly all of them will allow you to make electronic payments from your account, that they can even convert to physical cheques if they need to.

Heck, most smaller banks and credit unions do it nowadays too.

I've tried to electronically do it, but the landlord doesn't offer that option. Yes I could do the paper check online, but what's the point? I walk by the rent drop box 4 times a day.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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BNE
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:16 pm

At work we still take cheques which I hate as it means a drive to the bank usually a 1 hour round trip.

Today received 3 cheques all for values under $200.00 people I don't want you as customers so stop wasting my time.
I did write out a few cheques back in early September as I was organising the purchase of a building for work.
For some stupid reason on the day of the transfer it had to be by bank cheque, what was wrong with a same day bank transfer.

Buying my own house a few years ago was much less painful, the banks handled it between themselves.
I have been renting for the past 2 years at least all of that was by bank transfer, and some would take credit card for a fee.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
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XAM2175
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:37 am

A business I worked at until earlier this year still sent orders to suppliers by fax, paid those suppliers on account with cheques, and paid us employees in cash (it was legit, on-the-books, and above-board, but still cash).

They only stopped doing this because they closed their public-facing operations. I stayed on the books a little while longer to help with the transition and was paid by cheque until they finally brought in direct deposit. I joked to the boss that in the space of five years the only way he hadn't paid me was in precious metals. Then again we had a Swedish lass working in administration who, when told part of her duties would be to cut cheques for suppliers, admitted she'd never even seen one before.

Granted as a whole though in Australia cheques are very much on the way out and usually only hang around in business and with older members of society.

I can pretty much say that the only payments I have ever received by cheque are:
1) Tax Returns (and the Tax Office here has pushing very hard to move to direct deposit for that for years)
2) Wages and petty-cash reimbursements at work, and that's ended now
3) Gifts from older family members
4) The one time I got stuck with a bunch of Metcards - public transport tickets - for a zone that didn't exist anymore and had to get them refunded... by way of posting them with a refund claim to some discretely-private part of the transport operations labyrinth who eventually sent a twenty-year-old tractor-feed dot-matrix-printed form cheque drawn on some other discretely-private part of the labyrinth.

That said I make payments with cheques with some regularity because I'm not a fan of automatic payments (I'm not the best at remembering they're going to happen) and nor do I like direct-debit from bank accounts (because I've heard a lot of horror stories about getting them stopped). I also like to use them in preference to online card payments, but that's a limited market nowadays.

Certainly though in Australia you don't see cheques being used in stores anymore, or really in any circumstance where there's not already a debt or an opportunity to let the cheque clear first. I don't believe there are any guarantee or online verification systems left operating here, for example. I'd wager for most people here under the age of about 40 or 50 the only real conduct they have with cheques now are bank cheques ("cashier's cheques" in the US, I believe) for high-value transactions in certain fields like real estate and motor vehicles.
 
rwessel
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:46 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 75):
At work we still take cheques which I hate as it means a drive to the bank usually a 1 hour round trip.

Can't you write a deposit slip and mail the lot to the bank? Or deposit them at an ATM instead of driving all the way to a branch?
 
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BNE
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 77):
Can't you write a deposit slip and mail the lot to the bank? Or deposit them at an ATM instead of driving all the way to a branch?

Usually it involves a mail run and bank run in one; plus lunch if I decide on McDonalds or KFC.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 73):
How are they obsolete? I´ve never ever in my life written one, having a "checking" account for over 24 years, but i do get them all the time. Why in gods name would i give my health insurance, energy suppliers or other entities my account number and keep them up to date when i switch banks? I check circumvents all of that, they just write "account-only check" on it, if push come to shove it could be found out which account it goes in, but it is one less company to have that personal information. But then again, German may be the only language that has one word for "data reduction and data economy": Datensparsamkeit.

best regards
Thomas

The last time i used a cheque was when I bought a second hand car some years ago from a private person and didn't want to bring a big wad of thousands of Euros in cash through Frankfurt's railway station district (a bit of a dodgy place). I brought enough cash for a substantial downpayment and gave the seller a cheque for the rest. As a private person he didn't have a credit card reader.

Jan
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Aesma
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 41):
One positive as to checks is that another person or business don't have to give up info as to their bank account.

I agree that banks should set up a system so that you have one address (number, code whatever) to receive money on your account, and another totally different one to send money from the same account.
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moo
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 60):
Then I don't what is happening to all the checks my current and my former companies sent to their vendors in Europe. I guess the companies just get to keep the cash.

Billions of dollars are transacted via a physical check that is sent to vendors overseas.

We still get to cash them, we just issue them very very rarely. With the direct debit system, BACS and fast payments, doing stuff directly from your bank account is much easier.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 79):
The last time i used a cheque was when I bought a second hand car some years ago from a private person and didn't want to bring a big wad of thousands of Euros in cash through Frankfurt's railway station district (a bit of a dodgy place). I brought enough cash for a substantial downpayment and gave the seller a cheque for the rest. As a private person he didn't have a credit card reader.

We use cashiers cheques or money orders for those - treated like cash, you just arent carrying around a bundle. The cashiers cheque takes on the face value, so if you lose it then the money is gone.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 81):
We use cashiers cheques or money orders for those - treated like cash, you just arent carrying around a bundle. The cashiers cheque takes on the face value, so if you lose it then the money is gone.

I made it a "Verrechnungsscheck" (Don't know the English term) by writing two parallel lines across the upper lefthand corner and wrote "Nur zur Verrechnung" on it. This means that he would not get the amount paid out in cash, but only lodged into his bank account. This also means, that if I had lost the cheque, I could have cancelled the transaction and have blocked it.

Jan
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rfields5421
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Thread starter):
Do we have like 5 more years left before paper checks become obsolete? What's stopping them from being obsolete now?

I'd say closer to 50 years. An entire generation has to grow up not using checks before they can be phased out.

Big ticket purchases may never go away from checkes. The last time I purchased a vehicle, which I paid cash for, I had to have a certified check prepared by my bank for the amount. The same with my RV trailer. There were about 25 checks associated with the sale of the last house I owned.

Merchants who sell things like $60,000 automobiles will usually not take a card for full purchase payment. The fees of credit card purchases would really cut into their profit margin.

I write about a dozen checks a year. Almost all go to government agencies, smaller ones, which do not do any type of card transactions. Vehicle registration, property tax, etc.

We also use many small campgrounds across the country. In paces where you drop the payment into a drop box, I will use a check, not cash. There is no card option.

I've really cut down on the amount of paper I keep, receipts and such. So paying by a check provides a proof of payment and avoids another piece of paper to keep.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
*I don't get quite what you mean about a cheque being an 'automatic receipt' ? I guess it shows on your bank statement but then so would a payment by debit card or direct debit, so those entries would also be 'automatic receipts' wouldn't they ?

Your payment by card or EBT doesn't show the place where the check was deposited. It doesn't always show the account into which the money was deposited. Likely the person depositing/ cashing the check was recorded on video. Banks are required to make scanned copies of the check available to the account holder so you can print out a copy of the cashed check. I cannot print out a copy of a credit card receipt. I've found that on-line purchases, especially from things like E-bay and Craigs List, are places where people will take your card for payment and never ship the item. When they accept a paper check, the shipment is delayed because they wait for the check to clear, but they do ship the item because the 'fraud' can be tracked to them easier.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
If cheques are still widely accepted how do businesses protect themselves against a cheque bouncing ?

The same way business protect themselves against credit card fraud, use of stolen credit cards. Large companies which accept personal checks have databases which flag names and account numbers which have written bad checks. Many businesses take the check, scan it, do an immediate electronic debit from the account and return the check to you at the cash register.

Quoting Okie (Reply 16):
I forgot to add that people who operate with cash can get a money order when they need to pay a bill that will not accept cash. Like a utility bill.
They pay the money order issuer the monies plus a fee for a money order sort of like a pre paid check.

I once had to get a copy of a cashed money order to 'prove' a payment was made. It is expensive, difficult and takes a lot of time. If I could not get a copy of the cashed check on-line, I could get it for free by walking into my bank in less than 10 minutes.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 20):
Okie already covered most of this for you, but I'd add you often see signs at cash registers saying v"There will be a $xx fee for a returned check." (I've never been able to figure out how they plan on collecting this fee from a bad-check-writing twerp who of course will have absquatulated by then...)

The vast majority of 'bad checks' are written by people who intend to pay, they miscalculated their bank balance. Many people live on the 'float' a couple days before payday. They expect to write the check to the merchant Friday, though their pay - which is needed to cover the amount of the check - will not be deposited until Monday. While technically illegal, it is done all the time across the country. Other people just make math mistakes.

Banks discovered a new source of income several years ago - they would process all charges/ checks against the account balance in real-time. And process deposits at the end of the business day making the money available the next day.

So if your company paid by check, and you deposited the check at 10 am, and went to the grocery store and used your debit card, wrote a check at Walmart which they turned into an immediate EBT - you would get hit with overdraft charges for those transactions. It took Congress passing a law to stop that procedure. Now banks have to process deposits first, then process payouts on the account. Some banks were making hundreds of millions of dollars annually on that 'hot check' process.
 
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moo
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 82):
I made it a "Verrechnungsscheck" (Don't know the English term) by writing two parallel lines across the upper lefthand corner and wrote "Nur zur Verrechnung" on it. This means that he would not get the amount paid out in cash, but only lodged into his bank account. This also means, that if I had lost the cheque, I could have cancelled the transaction and have blocked it.

Sounds similar to "account payee only", which was printed by default on all UK cheques.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 84):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 82):
I made it a "Verrechnungsscheck" (Don't know the English term) by writing two parallel lines across the upper lefthand corner and wrote "Nur zur Verrechnung" on it. This means that he would not get the amount paid out in cash, but only lodged into his bank account. This also means, that if I had lost the cheque, I could have cancelled the transaction and have blocked it.

Sounds similar to "account payee only", which was printed by default on all UK cheques.

Could be, as without this note any bearer could just cash the cheque.

Jan
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zckls04
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
These days checks seems to be better than credit cards in terms of basic security. Pay looks like the strongest option with a finger print required for now. Maybe that will be integrated into electronic transfer/payments in the future. It's not that difficult to add it to computers.

If you have a decent credit card they will refund your money with a quick phone call if you get frauded- I've always found check fraud much more longwinded to resolve. Dunno about ApplePay since it hasn't really caught on.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 51):
Works a bit differently in Norway, the banks here like you to have fewer credit cards. I had 4, three personal, one from my company, my bank manager asked me to get ride of one. I have no CC debt, but had nearly 1 million NOK in available credit.

In the US it seems to depend on whether you have balances. Opening 10 accounts with a balance of $0 will not affect your score much, but if you use the cards, even fairly lightly, you'll get dinged a bit. Having said that, my bank told me about a credit card with a 60k limit that I'd forgotten I even had. The balance was zero, and after I closed it my credit went up by 12 points or so.

Like with insurance, these factors probably change over time as the credit bureaus reevaluate risk based on their data. The factors which dinged you most pre-GFC probably aren't the same factors that affect you most now.
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prebennorholm
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:00 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 83):
I'd say closer to 50 years. An entire generation has to grow up not using checks before they can be phased out.

Nah, it goes much faster. Next year is the end of checks in my country - I haven't seen one for at least ten years.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 83):
Merchants who sell things like $60,000 automobiles will usually not take a card for full purchase payment. The fees of credit card purchases would really cut into their profit margin.

Last time I did such a thing, it wasn't a $60k car, only roughly $45k. I borrowed the dealer's PC, logged on to my bank, transferred the money. Two seconds later I received an SMS, asking me to reply with "OK". Then the dealer logged on to his bank and saw he had received the money. It all took two minutes and cost me a fee of DKK 2.00 = 30 US cent. That was October 2010 (it reminds me that I must soon go and get a new car).

Credit cards? I never use credit card in my own country. I use it abroad and for on foreign internet shops.

Even toll roads in neighbor countries - tunnels, bridges, ferries etc. - they accept a transponder in my car, when I just slow down to 20 mph when passing the pay station. It is automatically billed on my Danish debit card.
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DocLightning
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:10 am

I've suffered fraud on PayPal to the point where I refuse to use it now, so sometimes paper checks are my friend. I can also deposit them electronically using my banking app on my smartphone.

Similarly, I use my bank's "bill pay" feature to send checks to people who need one if I can't be bothered to write one and mail it myself.

I find checks to still be enormously useful, even though I rarely actually need to use them. But there are uses for them for which I haven't found a good electronic system.
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Airstud
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:14 am

I mailed a check for my heating bill from the post office in Madelia, Minnesota two Mondays ago.

I mailed checks to Discover & CrapitalOne from separate post offi in Santa Fe, New Mexico last week.

I mailed, yes mailed, a check to Xcel Energy from the post office in Bird City, Kansas last Monday.

And I mailed a check to Bank of America from the Oyens, Iowa post office on Tuesday.






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moo
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RE: How Much Longer On Checks?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 89):

To be fair, the US only just caught up with chip and pin tech, so it doesnt surprise me that you still mail cheques all over the place.

Over here, our bills are handled via direct debit or card payments over the phone (which are typically the first payment while the DD is set up).

Even the rent we paid while we were waiting for our house to be built was done via DD, no cheques in sight.

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