F1 2015: Mexican GP

notaxonrotax · Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:50 pm

Bienvenidos a Mexico!

It's on!
After 23 years "we" are back on Mexican soil.

Although the Championship excitement has ebbed away a touch, I think we could still be looking at an interesting GP; especially within the Mercedes team.

HAM is definitely keen to win the "1st" Mexican GP (he said so in several interviews) while ROS may well don his "the Devil may care" racing suit.
Stay tuned for turn 1!

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moo · Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:58 pm

The next three races should be interesting, because although the WDC and WCC titles are both settled, the question of which driver comes second is still far from over.

Does Hamilton care about where Rosberg finishes? Will he help his team mate if he ends up between Rosberg and Vettel? Should be interesting!

scbriml · Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
Does Hamilton care about where Rosberg finishes?

Almost certainly not.

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
Will he help his team mate if he ends up between Rosberg and Vettel? Should be interesting!

I'm not sure Hamilton 'helping' him to win would improve Rosberg's glum demeanour.

moo · Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):

Perhaps my rhetorical questions weren't quite as rhetorically obviously rhetorical

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:38 pm

Jenson Button has broken the record with a 70-place grid drop for the Mexican Grand Prix!

25-place penalty for changing his engine, turbocharger, MGU-H and MGU-K

all then changed again for Free Practice 2 making it 50 places

yet another turbocharger change after his qualifying problems

and a new control electronics and MGU-H change

He will have to start the race from somewhere out of Mexico?

CPH-R · Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
He will have to start the race from somewhere out of Mexico?

Dunno, is the Circuit of the Americas available this sunday?

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
He will have to start the race from somewhere out of Mexico?

Dunno, is the Circuit of the Americas available this sunday?

You had the exact same thought as me.
I was thinking he could start the race from the Austin racing track.

notaxonrotax · Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:39 pm

Exciting stuff.....just about to open a beer and indulge in this race today!

Braking has been a problem for numerous cars, and the grip hasn'been great. (altitude related, perhaps).
Quite a few cars have spun or have gone off, so; I for one am expecting a treat this afternoon!

The LONG run from Start / Finish down to turn 1 could be crucial for the lead!

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MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:03 pm

Kimi now has a 30-place grid penalty. He'll start at the back but still ahead of Jenson Button.

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:30 pm

Race start time 13:00 local | 19:00 GMT

Starting Grid:

1 Rosberg 1'19.480

2 Hamilton 1'19.668

3 Vettel 1'19.850

4 Kvyat 1'20.398

5 Ricciardo 1'20.399

6 Bottas 1'20.448

7 Massa 1'20.567

8 Verstappen 1'20.710

9 Perez 1'20.716

10 Hülkenberg 1'20.788

11 Sainz 1'20.942

12 Grosjean 1'21.038

13 Maldonado 1'21.261

14 Ericsson 1'21.544

15 Nasr 1'21.788

16 Rossi 1'24.136

17 Stevens 1'24.386

18 Räikkönen 1'22.494

19 Alonso 1'21.779

20 Button

Kimi was moved to 19th place ahead of Jenson Button.

I predict Hammy will win this one - again. Let's see if I am right.

zkojq · Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:43 pm

So....how many Mercedes will (or won't) make it past the first corner? I'm looking forwards to this!

Force India might become Aston Martin next year it seems.

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
Does Hamilton care about where Rosberg finishes?

Doubt it.

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
Will he help his team mate if he ends up between Rosberg and Vettel?

About the same chance as the suggestion in the last race by David Croft that Rosberg might let Vettel go past so that his countryman might challenge Hamilton instead. Not sure what he was thinking.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
He will have to start the race from somewhere out of Mexico?

Most of the way to Interlagos!

Quote:
So Bernie is pushing the idea of a cheaper independent engine option which punishes the current engine suppliers as his option would have greater flexibility within the rules, potentially allowing for better performance.

Basically, by insisting on the cheaper engine option having a benefit other than the cost, isn't Bernie admitting that the costs of the current engines cannot be reduced by the manufacturers because otherwise an independent manufacturer should have no problems producing a competitive engine with the current formula on the budget Bernie wants...

I just think that its stupid to keep making changes to the engine rules if FOM wants to attract new manufacturers. Keep them nice and stable for a few years so that they can earn some ROI. At that point you'd have a greater chance of BMW, Toyota etc reentering someday.

[Edited 2015-11-01 10:56:34]

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 10):
Most of the way to Interlagos!

Haha! Big laugh!

In fact he is now in 11th place not bad at all

Alonso had to quit because of a mechanical failure. Let's see how long Jenson's car will hold.

Rosberg first
Hammy second

Vettel puncture. Now a spin.

This will be a long race. A lot will change.

Let's see how it goes.

B747forever · Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:42 pm

Wow, so much love between the two Finns on the track

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 12):
Wow, so much love between the two Finns on the track

Reversed karma. This time it was Bottas taking Kimi off the race.

Lap 52 now Vettel is out. No more Ferraris in the race.

box

[Edited 2015-11-01 12:18:19]

B747forever · Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Lap 52 now Vettel is out. No more Ferraris in the race.

A weekend they will want to forget fast.

MadameConcorde · Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:49 pm

Well my prediction FAILED.

1. Rosberg
2. Hammy
3. Bottas.

Stealthz · Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:18 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
1. Rosberg
2. Hammy
3. Bottas.

As close as I ma going to get to seeing the result as the Australian fans have again been screwed over by the Fox/TEN Cartel.
A 5:00 am race is a natural for a Monday evening highlights package as they did for Austin, No the evil gnomes at Ten slot the race "live" at 05:30 onto ONE without any promotion and with no Monday night highlight package.

MadameConcorde · Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:36 pm

Star of the race? Jenson Button.

Finished 14th after starting 90th with his grid penalty. Heroic drive.

teme82 · Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
Reversed karma. This time it was Bottas taking Kimi off the race.

And people here mad that Valtteri didn't get penalty for that ...

zkojq · Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:02 am

Did Rosberg say 'thank-you for the chicken' on the podium? Boring race though.

What do people here think of this article?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34706265

Red Bull won't be using Renault engines next year. Ferrari and Mercedes apparently won't sell them any, which makes it seem like Honda will be their only choice if they want to stay in the sport (yet in the article he says that would be worse...which it probably would).
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...-out-using-renault-engines-in-2016

notaxonrotax · Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:56 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 19):
Did Rosberg say 'thank-you for the chicken' on the podium?

"Gracial por el apoyo" is pretty different from "Gracias por el pollo".
His Spanish is not bad actually....considering how many languages he speaks.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 19):
Boring race though

I wouldn't call it boring, but yes; we have seen more exciting ones!
A few observations:

-It was ROS his weekend....whatever HAM tried, Ros had the ability to respond both in qualifying and the race. This is why 2014 was a difficult championship for HAM, as ROS can be quite good.

-Kimi, Kimi....where did he think BOT would go?
Self inflicted, in my opinion.

-VET, very uncharacteristic mistakes....not Ferrari's weekend.

-Verstappen beats Sainz again in qualifying and the race. The difference in points between them is getting significant....and they are getting close in the qualifying-score.

-Love how MAS has to be told to push push push several times.....that happens a lot.
I am surprised to see him in F1 for another year.

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zckls04 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
Star of the race? Jenson Button.

Finished 14th after starting 90th with his grid penalty. Heroic drive.

Thanks- you gave me a good belly-laugh...

Not a particularly enthralling race, but what a podium setup! I love the track design.

Grizzly410 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 19):
What do people here think of this article?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/...06265

I think Hammy definitively lacks something to be a great champion for me, can't find the right word for it, but he should be relaxed and just congratulate warmly his teamate for the win. With a smile on his face saying "enjoy and be happy for scoring more than me on this race, next year I'll put you down again."

During the race however I don't understand why they wanted him to pit so badly, don't have anything to support but the safety reason is not so clear for me. Hammy was suprised, so he must have feel the tyres were still in rather good condition, why not listen the pilot and take one lap to rethink if not for being sure not to screw Nico's win?

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 20):
-Verstappen beats Sainz again in qualifying and the race. The difference in points between them is getting significant....and they are getting close in the qualifying-score.

-Love how MAS has to be told to push push push several times.....that happens a lot.
I am surprised to see him in F1 for another year.

zkojq · Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:54 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 20):
-VET, very uncharacteristic mistakes....not Ferrari's weekend.

It was like a season's worth of mistakes for him condensed into one race.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 20):
-Love how MAS has to be told to push push push several times.....that happens a lot.
I am surprised to see him in F1 for another year.

Reminds me of this (at Singapore):

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 20):
-Kimi, Kimi....where did he think BOT would go?
Self inflicted, in my opinion.

Its sad to see what a disaster this season is turning out to be for him. He used to be really good.

Quoting Grizzly410 (Reply 22):
I think Hammy definitively lacks something to be a great champion for me, can't find the right word for it, but he should be relaxed and just congratulate warmly his teamate for the win. With a smile on his face saying "enjoy and be happy for scoring more than me on this race, next year I'll put you down again."

Grace.
I wonder what would have happened afterwards if Hamilton continued to defy team orders, stayed out and managed to win the race.

Quoting Grizzly410 (Reply 22):
Hammy was suprised, so he must have feel the tyres were still in rather good condition, why not listen the pilot and take one lap to rethink if not for being sure not to screw Nico's win?

TheFlyingDisk · Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:12 am

Quoting Grizzly410 (Reply 22):
I think Hammy definitively lacks something to be a great champion for me, can't find the right word for it, but he should be relaxed and just congratulate warmly his teamate for the win

He's selfish, and from the article sounds like a spoiled brat. That's what turns me off about Hammy (and Vettel for that matter) whereas the likes of Schumi & Senna despite being ruthless still manages to be magnanimous in defeat, especially when beaten by their teammate fair & square.

They just don't make'em like they used to...

scbriml · Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:57 pm

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24):
Schumi & Senna despite being ruthless still manages to be magnanimous in defeat, especially when beaten by their teammate fair & square

After they'd failed to crash into or run their rivals off the track? Or parking in the middle of the track in qualifying? Or being allowed past by their team-mate 10m from the finish line? Or getting into a fist-fight with a rival?

Yeah, they were real gentlemen racers.

[Edited 2015-11-06 08:58:29]

notaxonrotax · Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:35 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 25):

After they'd failed to crash into or run their rivals off the track? Or parking in the middle of the track in qualifying? Or being allowed past by their team-mate 10m from the finish line? Or getting into a fist-fight with a rival?

Thank you for some sanity, Scbriml.....
HAM may appear a little cold at times, but I think both him and VET are generally nice guys.
SCHU and Senna were right A-holes in their days.....brilliant drivers, but NOT very nice!
Let's not re-write history here!

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scbriml · Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 26):
HAM may appear a little cold at times, but I think both him and VET are generally nice guys.
SCHU and Senna were right A-holes in their days.....brilliant drivers, but NOT very nice!

I fully understand that everyone has their favourite driver(s) and I can see why some people dislike Hamilton, but I try and limit my opinion of drivers to their performances on the track. I believe Hamilton has every right to be considered one of the great F1 drivers. It's very possible that he'll win a 4th WDC next year. Nobody wins three or more WDCs without being a very good driver.

All I care about is what he does on the track. I seriously couldn't care less who he hangs out with, what music he likes, what colour he dies his hair, his diamond earrings or whatever new tattoos he has. I only care about his driving. And it's very good.

Grizzly410 · Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
All I care about is what he does on the track.

OK that's your criteria ! I also like to think a great champion have for sure the need (even if it is not "right") to "do what needs to be done" to achieve his goals. ==> #ForzaVale, your penalty is a joke.

But we were not talking about something that happened on the track !

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 19):
What do people here think of this article?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/...06265

Team-mate have 4 pole in a row, 2 best lap, screwed it up badly previous GP so your win was not as clear cut as previous...
Why complain and put a shadow on Nico's win saying the team basicaly helped Nico ?
Perhaps I'm too much romantic with a chamion being some kind of white knight.

scbriml · Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting Grizzly410 (Reply 28):
Perhaps I'm too much romantic with a chamion being some kind of white knight.

There's your problem.

I think they're all self-centred egotists who simply cannot comprehend that they can be beaten by anyone without some external force coming into play.

TheFlyingDisk · Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:29 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 25):
Yeah, they were real gentlemen racers.

Never said Senna & Schumi were gentlemen racers...

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
It's very possible that he'll win a 4th WDC next year. Nobody wins three or more WDCs without being a very good driver.

Good, but not great. It's been that way ever since the sport got more technologically advanced - he who has the best car (and is reliable enough) wins.

I long for the days like the 1982 season where 11 drivers manage to win races & drivers like John Watson could pull off an upset win from the back of the grid.

scbriml · Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 30):
I long for the days like the 1982 season where 11 drivers manage to win races & drivers like John Watson could pull off an upset win from the back of the grid.

Mainly because the cars were so unreliable and the sport was so much less professional. Compare a pit stop from then to one now. I honestly don't think the drivers were any better then than now.

I've very rarely if ever heard anyone disagree that Alonso is a great driver. His opinion is that Hamilton is a great.

notaxonrotax · Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 30):

Never said Senna & Schumi were gentlemen racers...

Correct, you said this:

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24):
Schumi & Senna despite being ruthless still manages to be magnanimous in defeat, especially when beaten by their teammate fair & square.

Schumacher In 1994, Schumacher in 1997......a fair loser? (In 1994 he would have lost!)
Him trying to bash Coulthard's teeth in at rainy Spa after running into the McLaren?

Senna, may I remind you:

Quoting (Reply ):
In 1990, Brazilian F1 star Ayrton Senna rammed into long-standing rival Alain Prost at the first corner of the Japanese Grand Prix at 160mph. The collision secured the world title for Senna.
At the time he said: “We are competing to win and if you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver.”

A year later, he admitted he did it deliberately.

A good (potential loser)....me thinks not!

And who could forget him and Eddie Irvine when young "Steady" Eddy un-lapped himself!

http://betisesportsworld.net/2014/04...-in-japan-93-what-really-happened/

A true gentleman in defeat, perhaps...but not in my books!

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zkojq · Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:08 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
I try and limit my opinion of drivers to their performances on the track.

I also like to let their driving do the talking, but when Lewis says something like what he did in the article I linked to, it's difficult for it not to leave an impression. I used to really like him when he was at McLaren, but since leaving he seems to have become a bit of a jerk.

Quoting Grizzly410 (Reply 28):
Why complain and put a shadow on Nico's win saying the team basicaly helped Nico ?

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24):
He's selfish, and from the article sounds like a spoiled brat.

Exactly, it just makes him come off as a bit of a sore loser.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24):
and Vettel for that matter

Vettel was a bit of a jerk when he was with Red Bull (Multi 21, anyone?), but now seems much more relaxed. That could of course be because Kimi isn't giving him much of a challenge. I like the way he regularly messes with Lewis and Nico, both of whom come of very stiff/serious in all the press conferences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PPhfA5XNaE

moo · Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:45 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 30):
Good, but not great. It's been that way ever since the sport got more technologically advanced - he who has the best car (and is reliable enough) wins.

The 1970s then? Although that doesn't seem to gel with this point of yours:

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 30):
I long for the days like the 1982 season where 11 drivers manage to win races & drivers like John Watson could pull off an upset win from the back of the grid.

I think people look back on previous seasons with a bit of a rose tint to their glasses...

Once upon a time, anyone with a workshop could throw together a brand new airplane from scratch and their own design and sell it.

Can't do that today.

Same thing with F1. Once upon a time, you had teams running out of nothing more than ordinary garages. Today, you need a few million quids worth of super computer to even start from the back of the grid (see how much the HPC was that Caterham sold off as part of their liquidation).

But thats what F1 is supposed to be about - its NOT a spec sport, you DONT get given a standardised chassis and engine, the teams have to strive to be the pinnacle not just with a driver but also with the car. Thats how I particularly like it.

If you want to watch a sport where its driver vs driver in identical cars, watch something else - dont mess with my sport please.

Besides, we have had some fantastic races where drivers have recovered from the back of the field to win in recent years - Button at Canada for example, came from the back multiple times after punctures, penalties etc to take the win from Vettel on the last lap. One of the best races ever imho.

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 34):
I think people look back on previous seasons with a bit of a rose tint to their glasses...

It may be so, but you can't deny the racing was much closer back then.

Quoting moo (Reply 34):
But thats what F1 is supposed to be about - its NOT a spec sport, you DONT get given a standardised chassis and engine, the teams have to strive to be the pinnacle not just with a driver but also with the car. Thats how I particularly like it.

Nobody's advocating for F1 to be turned into a spec sport. But would it kill the sport if the racing is made to be more closer by not allowing one team to have such a large advantage over the rest?

Besides, with only three engine manufacturers left the sport is unintentionally getting closer to becoming a spec sport anyways.

Quoting moo (Reply 34):
Besides, we have had some fantastic races where drivers have recovered from the back of the field to win in recent years - Button at Canada for example, came from the back multiple times after punctures, penalties etc to take the win from Vettel on the last lap. One of the best races ever imho.

Races like Canada 2011 are few & far in between. At the very least I would love to have a repeat of the 2012 season where even Pastor Maldonado won a race and the championship went down to the wire.

scbriml · Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:23 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 35):
It may be so, but you can't deny the racing was much closer back then.

You can argue the racing is just as close as it's ever been.

Five of the last nine WDC have been decided by very narrow margins:

2007 - 1 point (three drivers separated by a single point)
2008 - 1 point (WDC decided on the last bend of the last lap of the last race)
2009 - 9 points
2010 - 4 points
2012 - 3 points

The close results in 2010 & 2012 are all the more remarkable given the scoring increase to 25 points for a race win.

moo · Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 35):
It may be so, but you can't deny the racing was much closer back then.

Having watched a load of 1980s races recently, I can actually

There was just as much dominance back then as there is now, you just tend to see the close racing in highlights than anything.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 35):
Nobody's advocating for F1 to be turned into a spec sport.

Actually, lots of people are advocating it to be turned into a spec sport, just not in so many words.

We already have massive restrictions on where teams can develop, and whenever one team succeeds more in a homologated area there are the inevitable calls for teams to be allowed exceptional permission to equalise. Sod that.

And now we have the FIA demanding that the engine manufacturers sell below cost to smaller teams, with the threat of a standard third party engine being introduced at a dramatically lower cost and thus more than half the grid are going to end up with it.

And of course that standard engine has a lot of exceptions under the current rules, because the FIA have internally recognised that you can't do the current power unit at the cost they want, so they have to relax the rules for their spec engine...

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 35):
Besides, with only three engine manufacturers left the sport is unintentionally getting closer to becoming a spec sport anyways.

Three? There are still four engine manufacturers - Ferrari, Mercedes, Honda and Renault.

I can see the FIA pushing for a single engine supplier in the next 15 years, just as they have with tyres. And when that happens, I'm done with F1.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 35):
Races like Canada 2011 are few & far in between. At the very least I would love to have a repeat of the 2012 season where even Pastor Maldonado won a race and the championship went down to the wire.

2014 went down to the wire as well, or is there some other criteria we need to apply here?

GrahamHill · Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:02 pm

So, according to Autosport, RBR would be close to signing a new deal with Renault for the 2016 season: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121722

moo · Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 38):

So, according to Autosport, RBR would be close to signing a new deal with Renault for the 2016 season:

I bet that took some eating of humble pie.

Stealthz · Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:31 pm

And also according to Autosport,
[quote= Jean Todt] "I'm sorry to say we cannot do better."[quote]

Yes you can, but you won't!

On the 2016 F1 calendar and the conflict between the Euro GO in Baku.. where the hell.. and the LeMans 24 Hr.
Yes you can you spineless little gnome, grow a pair and stand up to that evil gremlin Ecclestone and bring some sport back in to F1.
I know F1 can never return to the "gentleman" racer days of the '50s or the "garagista" days but it can pay more attention to the fans and those that have supported F1 for decades.
Grand Prix in Baku FFS, makes the middle east and Asian races seem sensible.

GrahamHill · Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 40):
On the 2016 F1 calendar and the conflict between the Euro GO in Baku.. where the hell.. and the LeMans 24 Hr.
Yes you can you spineless little gnome, grow a pair and stand up to that evil gremlin Ecclestone and bring some sport back in to F1.
I know F1 can never return to the "gentleman" racer days of the '50s or the "garagista" days but it can pay more attention to the fans and those that have supported F1 for decades.
Grand Prix in Baku FFS, makes the middle east and Asian races seem sensible.

It's a f... up, and like you I'm super disappointed that the FIA is not doing anything about it. It's two FIA championship races and they should avoid that kind of schedule clashes.

I'll be at Le Mans like every year, so I won't be watching the "European" GP in Baku.

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