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OA260
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:41 pm

Reports coming in of a terror attack in Paris. Police report up to 18 dead so far.

news.sky.com
 
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pvjin
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:51 pm

Not surprised one bit, with EU's long tradition of ultra liberal immigration policies and inability to protect its borders EU has been inviting terrorists for a long time.

RIP all innocent people who have to die because of our politician's inability to protect us from terror. Thanks to strict gun laws in countries like France the only ones with guns are criminals, terrorists, and the governments that aren't interested in protecting people from those two other groups. Year after year I can understand the American NRA better and better, if the government is incapable of protecting ordinary people then those people should be allowed to protect themselves.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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DeltaMD90
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Thanks to strict gun laws in countries like France the only ones with guns are criminals, terrorists, and the governments that aren't interested in protecting people from those two other groups. Year after year I can understand the American NRA better and better, if the government is incapable of protecting ordinary people then those people should be allowed to protect themselves.

1: Do you honestly think the amount that may have been saved in this attack would outweigh the stupid, pointless shootings they'd have daily?
2: While self defense does happen in the US, it far from stops all attacks here
3: Do you think the benefits of point 2 outweigh point 1?

Yes, Europe has a problem. But come on, would pouring guns into France be better in the long run? Seriously?
 
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sebolino
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:57 pm

3 different attacks.

People in the concert room "Bataclan" seem to be hostages of terrorists.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Not surprised one bit, with EU's long tradition of ultra liberal immigration policies and inability to protect its borders EU has been inviting terrorists for a long time.

Ridiculous. Terrorists strike everywhere, no ?
 
lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 3):
Ridiculous. Terrorists strike everywhere, no ?

This and a few months back the train attacker. It seems that France has a bigger problem than other countries. But, at the end of the day it is your country and you decide whether you wanna live in increasing terror in order to be politically correct.

Edit: Forgot the Hebdo attacks (how could I miss that), attacks against Jewish targets (stores/synagogues). The list goes on and on and on.

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:03:27]
 
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pvjin
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
1: Do you honestly think the amount that may have been saved in this attack would outweigh the stupid, pointless shootings they'd have daily?

Don't know, but owning a gun would sure make me feel safer in case ISIS starts to mess around in my city. Obviously the only real solution would be rational immigration policy and deporting all poorly integrated and radical Muslims, but as that's not going to happen at least give ordinary people ability to protect themselves from the resulting chaos.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
2: While self defense does happen in the US, it far from stops all attacks here
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
3: Do you think the benefits of point 2 outweigh point 1?

Perhaps not, but in this situation Europeans are just bunch of weak sheep compared to Americans, a piece of cake to terrorists.

Quoting sebolino (Reply 3):
Ridiculous. Terrorists strike everywhere, no ?

How many Islamic terrorist attacks there have been in South Korea lately? Or what about Belarus or Poland?

The fact is larger number of poorly integrated Muslim immigrants you have in any given country it's more likely for that country to see terrorist attacks.
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Aesma
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:03 pm

Hostages at the Bataclan. If often go there. Tonight was a concert of the Eagles of Death Metal.
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sebolino
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 4):
This and a few months back the train attacker. It seems that France has a bigger problem than other countries.

Terrorists strike against countries who fight them. US, France, GB, Spain ...
Sure, if your country doesn't make the slightest move to fight terrorists where they are, you're safe.
 
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sebolino
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
How many Islamic terrorist attacks there have been in South Korea lately? Or what about Belarus or Poland?

Oh yeah. South Korea has sent so many warplanes against ISIS !
 
lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 7):

Considering the US holds the biggest pie in the "fight against terror" and is the number one target, not much happening from specific terrorist groups here. Maybe because the US has better control of who comes in and who is allowed to come live here? As for Spain and the UK, same as France, they have allowed a lot of dissatisfied people to move in. Hell, the UK cannot even kick out a known hate mongerer who preaches terror within UK borders.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:08 pm

One of the attacks (or at least shots heard, or explosions, not clear) was near the Stade de France (80 000 seats stadium) where a France-Germany football match was being played, with president François Hollande in attendance. He has been exfiltrated.
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OA260
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:09 pm

Reports now 26 dead .
 
lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 8):
Oh yeah. South Korea has sent so many warplanes against ISIS !

You are missing the point. As a country you have allowed too many people to live within your borders that hate who you are, what you stand for, your values and your freedoms. They don't even hide that fact anymore, they clearly state in whenever they can. You can bury your head in the sand and say that this does not involve failed immigration policies but they have already started biting you in your rear end.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 8):
Oh yeah. South Korea has sent so many warplanes against ISIS !

Yeah, perhaps European countries should just allow ISIS establish a huge caliphate in Middle East. Actually you French should also install Sharia law to France, that would make ISIS happy and stop the terror, right?
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:10 pm

Firstly, my thoughts go out to the victims and Parisiens in general, they've suffered terribly this year. I have a feeling this is just the start.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Thanks to strict gun laws in countries like France the only ones with guns are criminals
Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Don't know, but owning a gun would sure make me feel safer in case ISIS starts to mess around in my city.

It won't stop terrorist attacks, they'll find new ways. They'll find ways to kill you even if it's a gunfight, because they're terrorists, that's what they do.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:11 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 9):
Considering the US holds the biggest pie in the "fight against terror" and is the number one target, not much happening from specific terrorist groups here. Maybe because the US has better control of who comes in and who is allowed to come live here?

Maybe because the dozens of thousands of people entering illegally in the states are mainly South Americans, and not people from middle east or north Africa, thanks to a small piece of water called the Atlantic Ocean ?
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Grenades have been used, should we carry some of those too, to feel safer ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 1):
Not surprised one bit, with EU's long tradition of ultra liberal immigration policies and inability to protect its borders EU has been inviting terrorists for a long time.

Not this shit, please.


I feel with all Parisians. I have been there in Paris in September. Despite the terror alerts, I walked into a "Garde Républicaine" barracks between Quartier Latin and the Eiffel tower, and asked two friendly policemen, both sitting in the office, what this Garde was... and they explained to me the history of the Gendarmerie.

In spite of a label reading "Alerte attentats" on the fence of said barracks.

     


David

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:15:10]

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:20:36]
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 13):
Yeah, perhaps European countries should just allow ISIS establish a huge caliphate in Middle East. Actually you French should also install Sharia law to France, that would make ISIS happy and stop the terror, right?

I suppose you don't understand ironic sentences ... France can't be accused of being inert against terrorists, and that's why they attack us !! ( no irony )

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:16:21]
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Don't know, but owning a gun would sure make me feel safer in case ISIS starts to mess around in my city.

A gun isn't going to make you safer. These guys went into places with fully automatic rifles. Good luck fighting back with a Glock.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Obviously the only real solution would be rational immigration policy and deporting all poorly integrated and radical Muslims, but as that's not going to happen at least give ordinary people ability to protect themselves from the resulting chaos.

How about deporting radicalized people instead of just Muslims? Way back when my ancestors moved to the US, they didn't move into some melting pot that everybody loves to portray the US as. They moved to an Irish neighborhood, and surrounded themselves with other Irish people. It takes generations before groups start to truly assimilate. My dad was the first of 5 generations to not marry an Irish woman.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
How many Islamic terrorist attacks there have been in South Korea lately?

I'd much rather worry about the odd terrorist than whether or not 3 million soldiers 100 miles away are going to shell my neighborhood or invade because the dear leader is upset he ran out of Cognac.

Quoting lewis (Reply 9):
Considering the US holds the biggest pie in the "fight against terror" and is the number one target, not much happening from specific terrorist groups here. Maybe because the US has better control of who comes in and who is allowed to come live here?

The US also has geography on it's side. How do the terrorists need to get here? By plane essentially. Unless they sneak in through Canada or Mexico it's more difficult to get here. In Europe they can be smuggled in by the ground.
Pat
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lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 15):
Maybe because the dozens of thousands of people entering illegally in the states are mainly South Americans, and not people from middle east or north Africa, thanks to a small piece of water called the Atlantic Ocean ?

And as we speak W Europe is opening its arms towards millions of people with unknown history and unknown intentions. Germany just admitted that they don't even know how many "refugees" they are hosting as we speak. But sleep well at night, as long as you are PC about the whole matter everyone will like you and will appreciate your generosity.

By the way, from what I have seen in previous attacks all of the attackers have been legally present within your country. Not illegal border jumpers. Just a reminder.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 12):

There is a point there. A program recently on France 24 reported from areas where the Police fear to go as there are ghettos of Islamic extremism. It seems out of control.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Reports 35 dead and rising fast and 100 taken hostage !
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:21 pm

Thoughts with those that are there. Having family in France, it is a bit concerning  
 
lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
How about deporting radicalized people instead of just Muslims? Way back when my ancestors moved to the US, they didn't move into some melting pot that everybody loves to portray the US as. They moved to an Irish neighborhood, and surrounded themselves with other Irish people. It takes generations before groups start to truly assimilate. My dad was the first of 5 generations to not marry an Irish woman.

In every single country with similar terror and uprising issues, there is always ONE culprit. I have yet to hear about radicalized Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Italians, Irish, Germans. That is because radicalization does not happen based on nationality but based on a specific religion. Unless you know any examples of any other radicalized nationality or religion that has caused any problem in a host country, ever...

Greeks were similar in keeping to their communities for generations. But they also had, like the Irish, some sort of respect for their new countries of living. Assimilation is very slow but only one group lashes out violently wherever they go.

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:24:52]
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:24 pm

News here are now reporting at least 40 dead.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 14):
It won't stop terrorist attacks, they'll find new ways. They'll find ways to kill you even if it's a gunfight, because they're terrorists, that's what they do.

At least then people should have a chance of survival unlike those who got / are now getting slaughtered mercilessly.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
A gun isn't going to make you safer. These guys went into places with fully automatic rifles. Good luck fighting back with a Glock.

Perfectly possible if you have an element of surprise, like hiding in an empty room when one of those AK men comes in.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
How about deporting radicalized people instead of just Muslims?

Well, that already would be a good start, but as far as I can see anyone who openly sympathizes with those groups should get deported, not just actual hate preachers. Immigrants with crime record should also get deported much more easily than they do now.

One problem are the radicalized second generation immigrants with only European nationality. Where you could deport those?

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
I'd much rather worry about the odd terrorist than whether or not 3 million soldiers 100 miles away are going to shell my neighborhood or invade because the dear leader is upset he ran out of Cognac.

At least the North Korean leadership doesn't believe in imaginary creature that rewards you if you kill a lot of people who believe differently from you, in the end they act quite rationally compared to religious radicals.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Reports 35 dead and rising fast and 100 taken hostage !

So the inevitable result of EU's recklessness is finally happening. I hope Europeans will finally wake up and start demanding some determined action to stop this. If they don't then all hope is lost and European civilization will be most definitely doomed.

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:26:22]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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OA412
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:27 pm

Jesus Christ. The bigotry and Islamophobia on display by some in this thread is absolutely embarrassing.
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jetblueguy22
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 24):
In every single country with similar terror and uprising issues, there is always ONE culprit. I have yet to hear about radicalized Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, Italians, Irish, Germans. That is because radicalization does not happen based on nationality but based on a specific religion. Unless you know any examples of any other radicalized nationality or religion that has caused any problem in a host country, ever...

Seriously?
Using your examples:
Radicalized Japanese? Remember WWII?
Radicalized Chinese? Radicalists Fighting the Chinese on Tibet.
Greeks? Revolutionary Struggle
Italians? The Mafia
Irish? The IRA
Germany? The Nazis?

Not everything is about religion.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 26):
Perfectly possible if you have an element of surprise, like hiding in an empty room when one of those AK men comes in.

You're not going to have that element of surprise. You've seen too many Hollywood films. These guys aren't rookies. They know what they're doing, they planned it out.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 26):
Well, that already would be a good start, but as far as I can see anyone who openly sympathizes with those groups should get deported, not just actual hate preachers. Immigrants with crime record should also get deported much more easily than they do now.

One problem are the radicalized second generation immigrants with only European nationality. Where you could deport those?

No they shouldn't be deported. The radicalized second generation should be put in jail, wait for it, when they commit a crime or conspire to commit a crime.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 26):
At least the North Korean leadership doesn't believe in imaginary creature that rewards you if you kill a lot of people who believe differently from you, in the end they act quite rationally compared to religious radicals.

You're right. They just build nukes so when the opportunity arises they can run over the South. A land they still believe is theirs.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
lewis
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 28):
Seriously?
Using your examples:
Radicalized Japanese? Remember WWII?
Radicalized Chinese? Radicalists Fighting the Chinese on Tibet.
Greeks? Revolutionary Struggle
Italians? The Mafia
Irish? The IRA
Germany? The Nazis?

I'm talking about ethnic groups and nationalities living in other countries, getting radicalized and causing trouble or being behind terrorist attacks. Nicely taken completely out of context, try again.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):

Jesus Christ. The bigotry and Islamophobia on display by some in this thread is absolutely embarrassing.

Your country's immigration policy takes into account a lot of factors for each origin country and sets quotas, limitations or outright bans accordingly. Maybe you should think about why?
 
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MrHMSH
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 26):
At least then people should have a chance of survival unlike those who got / are now getting slaughtered mercilessly.
Quoting pvjin (Reply 26):
Perfectly possible if you have an element of surprise, like hiding in an empty room when one of those AK men comes in.

This isn't Hollywood. If arming people with guns was the solution then there would be no gun crime in places that do so.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
The bigotry and Islamophobia on display by some in this thread is absolutely embarrassing.

Not every Muslim is a terrorist. But Islam creates more terrorists than the others by some margin, and I don't see why it shouldn't be criticised so heavily if it is what people use to justify killings of thousands. Islamophobia is just a term coined by people that think Islam should be free from criticism. A phobia is an irrational fear, there's nothing irrational about fearing this exact sort of terrorist action.
 
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OA412
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 29):
You're not going to have that element of surprise. You've seen too many Hollywood films. These guys aren't rookies. They know what they're doing, they planned it out.

  

Quoting lewis (Reply 30):
Your country's immigration policy takes into account a lot of factors for each origin country and sets quotas, limitations or outright bans accordingly. Maybe you should think about why?

Yeah you've made this exact same argument before, and it's just as unpersuasive as ever. Our immigration policy is incredibly racist. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that part out, but it's certainly not geared toward keeping Muslims out as it is at keeping Latinos out.
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CPH-R
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:34 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 24):
Japanese,

Aum Shinrikyo & Japanese Red Army.

Quote:
Greeks,

Revolutionary Nuclei.

Quote:
Italians,

Brigate Rosse.

Quote:
Irish,

(P)IRA & the Loyalist Paras.

Quote:
Germans

Probably the more famous of the lot, the Red Army Faction.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 34):

How many of said groups committed attacks where they just mercilessly slaughtered random civilians? There's a difference between killing a politician whose ideology you don't like and massacring 100 random people.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Alfons
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 15):
Maybe because the dozens of thousands of people entering illegally in the states are mainly South Americans, and not people from middle east or north Africa, thanks to a small piece of water called the Atlantic Ocean ?

Well, didn't stop the Americans to smartly think into the future and help attack Nazi Germany before Hitler takes over then global technology leader England, create many little boats equipped with radar and V3's, and cross this small piece of water.  

That's what I sometimes miss in the European mentality, to look years ahead instead of only up to its own fence.

Alfons
 
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DeltaMD90
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:37 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Don't know, but owning a gun would sure make me feel safer in case ISIS starts to mess around in my city.

Yeah, I'm sure you owning a gun will make you feel safer. But do you feel safer having a ton of people around you also packing heat?

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Perhaps not, but in this situation Europeans are just bunch of weak sheep compared to Americans, a piece of cake to terrorists.

Can you not see how short sighted this line of thinking is? Are you ok with greater deaths and violence in general if it might reduce terrorism deaths some?

Let's also not forget that we aren't talking about 1 alerted guy with a gun vs 1 oblivious terrorist with an equal gun. It's more often the terrorist that's alerted and has the element of surprise with a much more effective gun and load out than even you would condone being legal and not even the most paranoid person would carry around, not to mention grenades which are often used in these attacks

Quoting lewis (Reply 9):
Considering the US holds the biggest pie in the "fight against terror" and is the number one target, not much happening from specific terrorist groups here

I think geography is the big factor here. While not impossible to smuggle people and weapons in, it's a lot harder, and Europe has a much higher number of Islamists (Islamists, not Muslims, don't get me wrong)
 
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OA260
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:40 pm

Reports of another shooting at Les Halles shopping mall. Anyone who knows the area will know its a major train station too.

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:41:58]
 
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flyingturtle
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:44 pm

60 dead according to the newest reports. Shooting continues in Les Halles.


     


Je suis totalement horrifié.

David
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OMP777X
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:46 pm

The death toll has risen to at least 35, and there have reportedly been hostages taken. May those who've perished rest in peace. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...-11e5-bd91-d385b244482f_story.html

Best,

OMP777X

[Edited 2015-11-13 14:58:29]
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OA412
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 43):
60 dead according to the newest reports. Shooting continues in Les Halles.

Je suis totalement horrifié.

God, that really is awful. Also saying 100 hostages.
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Don't know, but owning a gun would sure make me feel safer in case ISIS starts to mess around in my city.

Yet every other instant where ISIS wasn't messing around in your city, you'll have the pleasure of walking around having to presume every other person you encounter on a daily basis is armed.
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Aesma
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:50 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 37):
That's what I sometimes miss in the European mentality, to look years ahead instead of only up to its own fence.

I don't remember the US attacking Germany (or Japan, or...) in 1913 nor 1938. I well remember 2003 though, and we're living in that future now.
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:51 pm

Live special on France Inter:


http://www.franceinter.fr/player
 
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flyingturtle
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:55 pm

Somebody tells me of more shootings at other places.

Old tactics... when the police are tied down at some place, raise hell at another one.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Perhaps not, but in this situation Europeans are just bunch of weak sheep compared to Americans, a piece of cake to terrorists.

don't forget the value of history. The European continent has a very old and long history with the ME, the arabs, the persians, North African countries, colonism etc. ... . That creates a hundreds of years old mixing of cultures, people and generations inside many European countries, where it's not so easy today to bring in the wolves and play the American-style Rambo.

I don't want to know what would happen in the US population if USA would start a war with Mexico (for whatever reasons which are not important in this scenario), doing a lot of collateral damage in the Mexican population. The US would have to stay 'sheep' with its own Mexican population, not to create a little civil war.

Not so easy all of that.

Alfons
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:57 pm

Borders are to be closed as off right now.
 
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OA260
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:58 pm

France is closing its borders also. President Hollande has just given a statement.
 
wingman
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 37):
That's what I sometimes miss in the European mentality, to look years ahead instead of only up to its own fence.

In terms of your example you'd really have to credit Churchill with the true visionary thinking, he was begging Roosevelt from day 1 to get involved but it was the American public that lacked the vision/willingness just from the sheer isolation. He also called the Iron Curtain well in advance but by then the US understood its responsibility too well.

And now post 9-11 it's very hard to imagine complacency settling in. But I have to agree that Europe is a tinderbox right now and something like this present attack could easily set off what these terrorists dream of, which is all out cultural/religious warfare.
 
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Paris Terrorist Attacks - Part 1

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:59 pm

State of emergency declared. 6 shooting incidents and 3 explosions being reported.

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