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OA260
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Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:25 pm

Sadly a sign of the times that Belgium finds itself in recently. City officials have cancelled all celebrations for New Year due to terror threats.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Sadly a sign of the times that Belgium finds itself in recently.

How sad.

Another example of how we have all been affected by this scourge.

Who won the war on terrorism again ?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 1):
Who won the war on terrorism again ?

That is a good discussion to have and it's a very nuanced debate, but I do not believe every isolated precaution is an example of the "terrorists winning." Now if we have to make large, permanent changes and we cancel events all the time then yes, I think that's a win on their part

I think this is just an unfortunate necessity and in 1 year, Brussels will have new years like normal. I sure hope so at least
 
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pvjin
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
That is a good discussion to have and it's a very nuanced debate, but I do not believe every isolated precaution is an example of the "terrorists winning." Now if we have to make large, permanent changes and we cancel events all the time then yes, I think that's a win on their part

I kinda agree. I think it's kind of messed up to think that if we don't take precautions and let terrorists blow up and shoot innocent people then we somehow make them lose. If we do that then we are just bunch of weak apathetic sheep waiting in line for their turn in a slaughterhouse and the terrorists have won.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I think this is just an unfortunate necessity and in 1 year, Brussels will have new years like normal. I sure hope so at least

I think the threat is there to stay for quite a while. Europe has received an unforeseen amount of refugees from some of the most unstable and poorest parts of Islamic world. Integrating much smaller numbers of Muslim refugees has been a challenge and hasn't always worked so well as we can now see with thousands of European grown radicals who have left to fight for ISIS. Now integrating a much larger amount of them in current economic situation with little jobs available for them, that's going to be a real nightmare.

Radicals of the future are already among us, or at least their parents are, and I think there's little we can do to change that when deportation isn't an option.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we see some tragic headlines from major European cities tomorrow, but even more interesting will be what happens in the long term. Western Rome didn't fall due to outside forces but inner issues that weakened it, I think same is happening to the EU now with too many utterly incapable imbeciles in control of this badly leaking ship.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:40 pm

NY City is keeping up its Times Square tradition - they just have strict controls into the area and 6000 cops on duty before, around and after the ball drop. I suspect that with Brussels and the Belgium government, they just cannot afford or even get enough cops or the location of any public celebrations may not be able to be secured sufficiently. This also takes away any possible attention the terrorists want. Sadly they do 'win' with such decisions.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Sadly a sign of the times that Belgium finds itself in recently. City officials have cancelled all celebrations for New Year due to terror threats.

Sad.

Very sad.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
NY City is keeping up its Times Square tradition -

Good to hear!

Sydney will be doing the same.

Should be a big NYE here as it always is.

Happy New Year!!!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:54 pm

Brussels is a policing nightmare, Francophone enclave in the Flemish half of Belgium, half the cops barely speak or read the language of the other half — apparently the Dutch-speaking police authorities share more intel with their counterparts in Amsterdam than in Francophone Belgium, and v. v. with the Walloons facing Paris, instead of Antwerp.

I think it's crazy to cancel public events, and almost unprecedented in my memory. London has forever been blowing up in various ways, IRA / Libyans (actually we've had loads of embassy sieges, it was quite the thing in the 80s) / al-Qaeda open mic-ers etc, and only on the actual day of 7/7 was anything cancelled for security reasons (and actually more out of respect for the victims).
 
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Aesma
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:15 pm

I will spend NYE in Paris personally, at a theater then a restaurant, and fuck the terrorists !
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:51 pm

Yeah, I say un cancel it. Why give in to the fear? Get the army out there if you have to and make it safe.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
will spend NYE in Paris personally, at a theater then a restaurant, and fuck the terrorists !

Well Paris has quite a few you know.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 8):
Yeah, I say un cancel it. Why give in to the fear? Get the army out there if you have to and make it safe.

That's a bit difficult especially if those terrorists are suicide bombers. The only way to prevent them from entering an area would be making everybody go through metal detectors and body scanners or whatever. That would obviously create huge lines of people waiting to get scanned, and terrorists would just blow themselves up in that crowd instead.
 
steman
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:44 am

Berlin isn´t cancelling the event at the Brandenburger Gate, the biggest NYE Celebration event in Germany.
There are two things I don´t understand:
1) why is Brussel under threat? Is Belgium much involved in the fight against ISIS that it becomes a prime target?
2) why would people spend NYE outside, in a huge crowd, standing for hours in the cold? This is really beyond my understanding!
 
Scorpio
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:41 pm

A little background on why the fireworks diplay in Brussels was cancelled, and what the threat was / is:

A few days ago, two people were arrested who were apparently planning a terrorist attack during the new year's celebrations, with the prime targets being 'symbolic places' in Brussels. One of them appears to be someone who is seen as one of the main 'recruiters' of would-be terrorists. They were members of a motorcycle gang called the 'Kamikaze Riders', who sympathize with IS. Since then, several more arrests have been made. Now, there are two main reasons why the fireworks display has been cancelled:

-during the search of the apparent terrorists' home, military uniforms were found. This could indicate they were planning to dress as soldiers, so they could go into the crowds heavily armed without raising suspicion, as actual soldiers have been patrolling strategic places in Brussels for a while;

-several members of the Kamikaze Riders motorcycle gang appear to have dropped off the radar. Authorities fear they might be planning to still go ahead with the planned attack.

Now, about an hour ago, it was announced that another six people have been arrested this morning in this investigation. We don't yet know who these people are, but with any luck they're the kamikare riders who had disappeared...
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
but I do not believe every isolated precaution is an example of the "terrorists winning."

Each event, no... but the aggregate amalgamation is producing a society where everyday freedoms are chipped away bit by bit in the name of security. Thus, they ARE winning. They're not making people convert to Islam, but they are killing our way of life by a thousand cuts.

Today's the last day USAmericans can get their current passport pages extended, due to "increased security threat."

You already experience a pants-emptying radiation-rape, in order to get on an airplane..... it's just a matter of time (or more realistically: just a matter of a few more bombs) before you have to do the same thing for a train or bus ride.

And as soon as there's a few major attacks on giant Western sports stadiums, and there likely will be--- then we're going to have to do the same to enter those.

There's already talk by high end officials of ending the US' visa waiver program, or of ending the EU's Schengen agreement, due to abuse by terrorism.

Every time "they" do something, we lose a bit of the ability to live openly/freely, in the name of precaution. It's only going to get worse. They're DEFINITELY "winning."
 
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pvjin
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):

I guess that's the price you have to pay for tolerating Islamism. With proper border control and just little bit of discrimination one could pretty quickly minimize the terror threat in Europe and the US for good without infringing with rights of anyone who hasn't chosen to follow an obsolete and very much intolerant religion.

As an agnostic European I don't want to give up my freedoms in name of security, yet I don't want to get blown up either just so that some morons can continue following moral codes of Middle East over 1000 years ago.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 11):
There are two things I don´t understand:
1) why is Brussel under threat? Is Belgium much involved in the fight against ISIS that it becomes a prime target?
2) why would people spend NYE outside, in a huge crowd, standing for hours in the cold? This is really beyond my understanding!
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 12):
A few days ago, two people were arrested who were apparently planning a terrorist attack during the new year's celebrations, with the prime targets being 'symbolic places' in Brussels. One of them appears to be someone who is seen as one of the main 'recruiters' of would-be terrorists. They were members of a motorcycle gang called the 'Kamikaze Riders', who sympathize with IS. Since then, several more arrests have been made. Now, there are two main reasons why the fireworks display has been cancelled:

-during the search of the apparent terrorists' home, military uniforms were found. This could indicate they were planning to dress as soldiers, so they could go into the crowds heavily armed without raising suspicion, as actual soldiers have been patrolling strategic places in Brussels for a while;

-several members of the Kamikaze Riders motorcycle gang appear to have dropped off the radar. Authorities fear they might be planning to still go ahead with the planned attack.

Now, about an hour ago, it was announced that another six people have been arrested this morning in this investigation. We don't yet know who these people are, but with any luck they're the kamikare riders who had disappeared...

According to what I have heard on German radio this morning (WDR 5, from Northrhine-Westfalia, which is bordering Belgium), it has been found out that during the Paris attacks several of the terrorists repeately called two cell phone numbers in Belgium. The suspicion is that the whole attack has been coordinated from Belgium, and that these people are still at large (the names are possibly known to the authorities, but have not been made public). Then there is evidence of at least two independently operating Islamist terror cells in Belgium, but not all names areknown yet.

Jan
 
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OA260
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:24 pm

Munich Police have said there is a real threat to the city and asked people to avoid crowds and train stations.
 
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ER757
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:27 pm

Seattle did this a while back (I want to say it was the 2000 celebration but I could be wrong). They still did the fireworks at the Space Needle but they had it all blocked off and no one could be in or near the area
 
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Aesma
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:26 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
And as soon as there's a few major attacks on giant Western sports stadiums, and there likely will be--- then we're going to have to do the same to enter those.

Well the November attacks in Paris included several suicide bombers at the Stade de France (80 000 seats, built for the 1998 Football World Cup), however security was too tight for them to enter, and they didn't manage to blow themselves in crowds outside either (probably due to lack of preparation).
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:57 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
without infringing with rights of anyone who hasn't chosen to follow an obsolete and very much intolerant religion.

So in other words, essentially all of them?  
 
melpax
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:54 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
And as soon as there's a few major attacks on giant Western sports stadiums, and there likely will be--- then we're going to have to do the same to enter those.

Already happening here in Melbourne. A fence has just been erected surrounding the MCG, anyone entering on game day is now searched, as well as all cars using the underground carpark.

A previous terror plot was uncovered by police back in 2005, islamists were planning to launch an attack during the 2005 AFL grand final, one of the biggest days in Australian sport.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-1...urity-measures-for-cricket/7036156
 
blueflyer
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RE: Brussels Cancels New Year Celebrations Terror Risk

Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:51 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
NY City is keeping up its Times Square tradition - they just have strict controls into the area and 6000 cops on duty before, around and after the ball drop. I suspect that with Brussels and the Belgium government, they just cannot afford or even get enough cops or the location of any public celebrations may not be able to be secured sufficiently.

Timing is the bigger issue. NYPD has been planning for NYE for months. Brussels authorities had implemented additional security measures since the Paris attack and the Brussels lock-down, but the decision to cancel festivities altogether was based on information gathered two days before NYE. No city in the world reacts that fast.

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