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MaverickM11
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Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:39 am

And I can't blame them. How are you supposed to give your testimony in a "long tube full of demons?" Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, defending their private jets

[Edited 2016-01-07 16:43:40]
 
Kent350787
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 am

Doesn't this belong in the "Funniest Comedy Sketches" thread :P

[Edited 2016-01-07 17:29:01]

[Edited 2016-01-07 17:29:16]
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:57 am

I didn't watch the video, so I can't comment specifically on it or its content, but:

So what? If these charlatans can convince people to give them enough money to use a private aircraft, among other things, doing the Lord's work, that's their problem. So long as these hucksters stay on the right side of the law, there are bigger issues to be dealt with.

That's not to say the public shouldn't be educated about these mountebanks and that the hucksters shouldn't be ridiculed whenever possible. But, in the end, while what they are doing, IMHO is immoral, it is legal.
 
bluejuice
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:08 am

Hmmm... you are telling me "prosperity gospel" works if I you give you money, then God will reward me with money.... makes sense. How do I cut a check?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIobdRNLNek
Seems their current private plane suffered mechanical failure on takeoff when his wife and kids were on a shopping spree in London.
 
Ken777
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:08 am

Well, I guess you need a fleet of private jets if you are flying around the world preaching and raising money to buy more private jets.

Pity these guys giving in luxury forget about Jesus talking about feeding the hungry or caring for the sick.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:21 am

This charade where they use God and Christianity to fleece people to live in luxury themselves sure proves the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted"
 
ltbewr
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:56 am

It is too bad our IRS has been so neutered and Conservative politicians have created excessive protections for almost exclusively Jewish and Christian faith groups so those responsible in government can't go after them. I think it is long past time to go after all not for profits including faith groups to limit abuses as to tax, overhead costs, executive compensation and benefits (like a private jet) and many other laws, regulations and policies. I have pretty much given up giving to religious based charities as don't want them extorting help with pushing their faith, paying too much to executives, limiting health care rights (including abortion, end of life), their hate to GLTBQ's, and far too often their marginal sending on the poor and old.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:58 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):

So what? If these charlatans can convince people to give them enough money to use a private aircraft, among other things, doing the Lord's work, that's their problem. So long as these hucksters stay on the right side of the law, there are bigger issues to be dealt with.

So what? They don't pay taxes. That's what.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:04 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
So what? They don't pay taxes. That's what.

So? Are they operating inside the laws and regulations? I'm not saying don't scrutinize them, but if there's a question or gray area, we have to come down on the side of The First Amendment. Free expression of religion. And, that is untaxed because the power to tax is the power to destroy.

Sorry, I'd rather see these fraudsters jet around the world, than have the government chill religious expression by taxing these guys.
 
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seb146
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
So what?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
while what they are doing, IMHO is immoral,

You just answered your own question. These are supposed to be men and women of God. These are supposed to be examples of the deeds and words of Christ. If they build a 30,000 seat arena and a 40 room mansion and fly on their own private jet, and ignore their followers, you are telling me that is what Jesus would have done?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:21 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):

So? Are they operating inside the laws and regulations? I'm not saying don't scrutinize them, but if there's a question or gray area, we have to come down on the side of The First Amendment. Free expression of religion. And, that is untaxed because the power to tax is the power to destroy.

OK, can I declare myself a religion and skip my tax bill?
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:08 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
OK, can I declare myself a religion and skip my tax bill?

If you meet the requirements of IRS Publication 501(c)(3) (I think), I don't see why not.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 6):
It is too bad our IRS has been so neutered and Conservative politicians have created excessive protections

You know, I was a bit bored and intrigued by the protections afforded by Congress to religious organizations and took a look into the vast world of the Internet.

Religious organizations enjoy protections under 26 USC 7611. This particular section was authorized by Congress through Public Law 98-369 (Deficit Reduction Act of 1984) way back in 1984. The make-up of Congress was split, a Democratic House (272-163) and a Republican Senate (55-45). P.L. 98-369 was introduced into the House as HR 4170 by Rep. Dan Rostenkowski (D) and co-sponsored by 23 others (15 Democrats and 8 Repubicans).

It would seem to me that Conservatives had only a small part in this bill. Of course, we know that Democrats only read bills after they are passed, so it is quite possible that the 16 Democratic members that supported the bill and all those that voted for the final version did not, in fact, know about the provisions giving special protections to religious organizations.

[Edited 2016-01-07 23:13:01]

[Edited 2016-01-07 23:13:36]
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
So what?

So what is that while they deceive others by "requiring" a private fleet, they go out and tell them to oppose certain government actions. These people are the least qualified to lead a church.

Yeah, give me money or else you'll go to hell. That's the Lord's way. Oh, the government legalized same-sex marriage? SCANDAL! Take arms and oppose it.

The only person in the world who I can truly give a pass on this: the current Pope. He's an example of humility and that he's not in it for the luxury or the prestige of being a reigning monarch, and we've seen that through his actions.
 
sccutler
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:09 pm

I was at a local car wash recently, and the pastor of a baptist church in a somewhat-downtrodden (working class, not ghetto) community showed up, driving a new Bentley. It was a gift from the flock, and he stated that he was humbled at receiving it. While I cannot speak for the guys getting jets, I can tell you that this particular pastor is one who left a very successful corporate career for the ministry, and had always chosen to live modestly, residing in a basic home in the same neighborhood as the church.

Parishioners stated, when they presented the car, that his stewardship of the congregation was inspirational to the church members and it was something they could do as a symbol of their respect and love. I believe the sentiment, and the pastor's humility, were genuine.

He told me, "they could have made it a Buick, and I'd have been bowled over."

I sincerely believe that the gift had legitimate inspirational value for the church's members.

Now, G-Vs? That's a bridge too far, I think.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:06 pm

Well, the Pope received an old Fiat 500 as a gift (it might have some value now as an antique car though).

Jan
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:19 pm

Quoting BlueJuice (Reply 3):

Gotta get some anointin' up on this money!
https://youtu.be/AYxeTjrckl0?t=34s
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:24 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
Well, the Pope received an old Fiat 500 as a gift (it might have some value now as an antique car though).

Was that before or after his US tour last fall (when he rode in a new black 500L)?
 
petertenthije
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
Was that before or after his US tour last fall (when he rode in a new black 500L)

Actually, the pope was given a (then 29 y/o) Renault 4. It was a gift Italian priest Renzo Zocca. This was in 2013 so well before Fiat got their product placement deal.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Renault-4-190-000-miles-clock.html
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:24 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 6):
I have pretty much given up giving to religious based charities as don't want them extorting help with pushing their faith, paying too much to executives, limiting health care rights (including abortion, end of life), their hate to GLTBQ's, and far too often their marginal sending on the poor and old.

That is really quite cynical. Religious charities in the United States are some of the most effective community organizations and provide untold benefits to the poor, sick, and marginalized. You criticize them for "pushing their faith." No, they are practicing their faith. How unfortunate that you can't find common ground on something because you don't agree on everything.

Edit: And to the OP, the use of tax shelters by televangelist to live lavish lifestyles is utterly deplorable. The IRS can and should go after people like that.

[Edited 2016-01-08 09:25:19]
 
PhilBy
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:34 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
This charade where they use God and Christianity to fleece people to live in luxury themselves sure proves the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted"

If they make people happy and satisfied by taking the money they do more to earn the money than some politicians and psychologists do!
 
bennett123
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:48 pm

IMO, these people are charletans.

If they want to be followers of Christ then some humility is called for.

If He could be born in a stable, and on a donkey, (rather than a horse as an earthly king would - which is the equivalent to a Gulfstream) then they should do likewise.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:55 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):

There are plenty of other effective secular charities that do good work in the same areas. I'm with ltbewr on this. I have no issue with anybody "practicing their faith" in private, but am certainly opposed to them doing so in public using my money. If they seek to discriminate in the name of charity then not only is that un-charitable, it's is un-Christian IMHO.
 
luckyone
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
You just answered your own question. These are supposed to be men and women of God. These are supposed to be examples of the deeds and words of Christ. If they build a 30,000 seat arena and a 40 room mansion and fly on their own private jet, and ignore their followers, you are telling me that is what Jesus would have done?
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 20):
IMO, these people are charletans.

If they want to be followers of Christ then some humility is called for.

Luke 18: 18-22
"18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
As usual, Bible thumpers ignore it. But then, if the people giving them money don't read it...why should they care...
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
You just answered your own question. These are supposed to be men and women of God.

So? Being immoral is not illegal. So long as they stay on the right side of the law, what they're doing is legal. Don't like it, petition your senators and representative to change the law/tax code.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 12):

So what is that while they deceive others by "requiring" a private fleet, they go out and tell them to oppose certain government actions. These people are the least qualified to lead a church.

Can you prove the deceit? If you can I suggest you ask a prosecutor to bring criminal charges.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 13):

Now, G-Vs? That's a bridge too far, I think.

Really? You're ok with a Bentley, but not a G?

Quoting sccutler (Reply 13):
Parishioners stated, when they presented the car, that his stewardship of the congregation was inspirational to the church members and it was something they could do as a symbol of their respect and love. I believe the sentiment, and the pastor's humility, were genuine.

You know what would have been more inspirational? If they gave the money they spent on the car to a local food bank in his name...or, maybe seed one of their own. How about a local homeless shelter. Or, use the money to minister to shut-ins?

Look, that congregation can do what it wants with its money, just like the congregations of these charlatans can do what they want with theirs, I would have a problem being a member of a congregation whose pastor would accept such gifts when there is so much more that can be done with the money...and sentiment.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:41 pm

I thought I recognised the name Kenneth Copeland, he's one of the gentlemen featured in the Chaser's War on Everything 2.30 Report, along with Creflo Dollar, who has also been in the news recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfX3uA15RM
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 19):

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
This charade where they use God and Christianity to fleece people to live in luxury themselves sure proves the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted"

If they make people happy and satisfied by taking the money they do more to earn the money than some politicians and psychologists do

Except they do it in the name of God. Politicians merely lie to get votes and wealth. They do not promise eternal salvation to gullble people.
 
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seb146
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 23):
Being immoral is not illegal

Here is the rub:

All this is being done in the name of Christ and Christianity. You know: Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin, Ray Moore, Antonin Scalia.... Pretty much the right wing of the right wing. A who's who of political Bible thumpers.

All these multi millionaires and billionaires demand people give them money because God will give them in return. Okay, so why are there still faithful living in boxes? Why are the faithful dying from easily treatable disease and hunger? Why are these people, who demand money for a peaceful religion, the same people who always want war and guns and death?

No, being immoral is not illegal, to a point. But, lying in the name of Christ needs to be stopped.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:50 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
But, lying in the name of Christ needs to be stopped.

How do you know it's a lie? If it was a provable lie, these hucksters would be on trial for fraud. It is not a provable lie, therefore, they are allowed to continue to exercise their constitutional right to religion. As are those that follow them and provide them the lifestyle they live.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
All this is being done in the name of Christ and Christianity. You know: Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin, Ray Moore, Antonin Scalia.... Pretty much the right wing of the right wing. A who's who of political Bible thumpers.

None of whom are televangelists.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
All these multi millionaires and billionaires demand people give them money because God will give them in return.

So? The people that give money believe that they will receive salvation from doing so. It is their choice. They choose to accede to the "demand". Any coercion is spiritual.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:14 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
How do you know it's a lie?

Because religion isn't something you profit from. Imagine the outrage if the CEO of Planned Parenthood made the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) that these people make.

You can fundraise to help maintain the church in top shape or to help out a local cause. But the call to be a pastor or priest or whatever is expected to be accompanied by knowing that it's a voluntary thing and not a career to make money from.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
It is their choice. They choose to accede to the "demand".

I couldn't care less what people choose to believe and what they choose to give away. I do however care A LOT when the same people expect others to abide by what they believe in because one guy in a podium told them to.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
Because religion isn't something you profit from.

But, to them it is not profit. They claim that any proceeds and the stuff they buy with the proceeds are necessary to their ministry, else they would be breaking the law. Prove they are breaking the law and they will do time...just ask Jim Bakker.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
I do however care A LOT when the same people expect others to abide by what they believe in because one guy in a podium told them to.

That happens to be the definition of evangelism. Ignore them if what they're peddling doesn't suit you.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:21 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):

So? The people that give money believe that they will receive salvation from doing so. It is their choice. They choose to accede to the "demand". Any coercion is spiritual.

And the taxpayer supports them to the tune of something like $80B annually. Coincidentally the SNAP program costs about the same, which republicans want to vaporize. At least SNAP feeds people, unlike the true welfare queen that is (primarily christian) religion.
 
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seb146
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:28 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 29):
They claim that any proceeds and the stuff they buy with the proceeds are necessary to their ministry, else they would be breaking the law.

Have you seen Joel Osteen's house?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
None of whom are televangelists

And, yet, they support the same things televangelists do.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
How do you know it's a lie?

Jesus and the change makers in the Temple. Also, look up Mark 10:25, Matthew 19:24, and Luke 18:25. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If you want to rake in the billions from poor people, fine. Just don't be mad when it comes time to pay the piper.

As a side note, I enjoy watching Joyce Meyer from time to time. I know she is in this group of wealthy televangelists and, no, I don't give her money. She has enough.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:38 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
Have you seen Joel Osteen's house?

Don't really care.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
And the taxpayer supports them to the tune of something like $80B annually.

Unhappy about it? Get Congress to change the law.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
Jesus and the change makers in the Temple. Also, look up Mark 10:25, Matthew 19:24, and Luke 18:25.

Yup, I've read The Bible. Written by man, interpreted by man and applied by man. Some folks see it one way, while others see it another.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
As a side note, I enjoy watching Joyce Meyer from time to time.

I don't watch any of them. The whole genre turns me off.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
And, yet, they support the same things televangelists do.

Some probably do, some probably don't. I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats and/or Liberals that are just as "pious" as the Conservatives you noted. Your point?

[Edited 2016-01-08 22:10:03]
 
PhilBy
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:22 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25):
Except they do it in the name of God. Politicians merely lie to get votes and wealth. They do not promise eternal salvation to gullble people.

Plenty of politicins invoke God in their lies.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 28):
Because religion isn't something you profit from.

Tell that to the Vatican!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:34 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
But, lying in the name of Christ needs to be stopped.


By whom? The government? You want the government deciding matters of religion?

No, all businesses, whether religious or not, should be taxed. If they are nonprofit, then they may be tax-free. A house of worship is a business. It has accounts and books and a budget and staff and a payroll. If it operates as a nonprofit, then let it be tax-free. If it makes a profit, tax it.

Mitt Romney allegedly didn't pay taxes for ten years because he used the LDS church as a tax shelter. Joel Osteen and his ilk probably barely pay taxes because their "churches" own their houses.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:51 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
Don't really care.

You sure "don't care" quite often and aggressively
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:04 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):
You sure "don't care" quite often and aggressively

Aggressively? Often?

I don't care about where or how any of these guys/gals live. It appears that others care quite a bit but, I couldn't care less.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:22 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 36):
Aggressively? Often?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
So what?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
So?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 23):
So?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 27):
So?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 29):
Ignore them
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
Don't really care.

Seems like a lot of caring for someone who doesn't care.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:13 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 29):
Ignore them if what they're peddling doesn't suit you.

Can't really do that when some of their followers are elected officials, intent on writing laws based on what they believe in. My vote is limited to one district alone. A religious official from Alabama, for instance, wouldn't care any less about the people in the other states because his constituents will back him up regardless of what he does. So he's able to get together with his colleagues and write bills to bring about what he's preached to on Sundays.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:21 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 38):
Can't really do that when some of their followers are elected officials, intent on writing laws based on what they believe in.

Thats the essence of a democracy, no? For the officials elected by the people to represent the will of the people that elected them and to write legislation that reflects those beliefs?

If you don't like what's happening work to elect someone else. That doesn't work? You can always move to a different district.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):
Seems like a lot of caring for someone who doesn't care.

Maybe you're unclear on this particular usage of the word 'so' when used in response to some sort of statement?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:00 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 39):

Thats the essence of a democracy, no? For the officials elected by the people to represent the will of the people that elected them and to write legislation that reflects those beliefs?

Not when the policies they constantly push are in direct contravention to the Constitution and the Establishment clause and when they select SCOTUS justices like Antonin Scalia who believes that the First Amendment allows the government to establish religion and to favor religions.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:00 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 39):
Thats the essence of a democracy, no?

This actually concerns me. The fact that it's a democracy doesn't make it right. If Trump is elected and promises to build camps to place those he deems undesirable, should I hold my tongue because it's a democracy?
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 29):
That happens to be the definition of evangelism. Ignore them if what they're peddling doesn't suit you.

you do know the church is the biggest racquet around, right? beats me how people even watch this rubbish let alone chip in a few dollars. Blind faith...
 
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seb146
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:44 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
Have you seen Joel Osteen's house?

Don't really care.

That is kind of the point: Using church money for extravagance.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
I don't watch any of them. The whole genre turns me off.

Like with music, people like what they like. I like Joe Satriani. I go to his concerts from time to time. But, I expect my money to be going toward his house, kids, equipment. When I give to my church I grew up in, I expect it to go toward building upkeep and helping feed the poor and house the homeless. Not buying a Gulfstream or Jaguar.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats and/or Liberals that are just as "pious" as the Conservatives you noted. Your point?

Right wingers feel that Christianity should be law. While there are Democrats who probably live by the Bible, they do not actively seek to legislate morality and Biblical principle. That is the difference.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
Not when the policies they constantly push are in direct contravention to the Constitution and the Establishment clause and when they select SCOTUS justices like Antonin Scalia who believes that the First Amendment allows the government to establish religion and to favor religions.
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 41):
This actually concerns me. The fact that it's a democracy doesn't make it right. If Trump is elected and promises to build camps to place those he deems undesirable, should I hold my tongue because it's a democracy?

That's why we have a government set-up with checks and balances.

If you don't like the way one branch leans, you vote accordingly.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 43):
When I give to my church I grew up in, I expect it to go toward building upkeep and helping feed the poor and house the homeless. Not buying a Gulfstream or Jaguar.

So, don't give to the charlatans.

[Edited 2016-01-09 14:16:27]
 
1g
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:54 am

You should see Kenneth Copeland rationalize Obama's reelection through the word of god 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7d6V8gzBs4

I wonder what he would say if the Democrats were to be elected in 2016.

Seriously though, this type of preaching disgusts me. These people go on television, ask you to ignore medical based treatment for diseases like cancer and tell you to treat your diseases through faith. One way to obtain faith according to them is to seed faith first... which is basically sending money to these people. Kenneth Copeland's wife, Gloria Copeland, is especially notorious in this type of seed faith healing business.

I get the idea of tax exempting religious institutions and I do support the fundamental idea of it, but it truly saddens me to see it abused like this.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:32 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):

That's why we have a government set-up with checks and balances.

Not when that government can be bought by those same churches tax-free as "free speech" and "religious liberty" to interfere in government. They can get justices like Scalia and completely overturn the democratic process, which they are desperately trying to do.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:13 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats and/or Liberals that are just as "pious" as the Conservatives you noted.

Legislating from the bible is almost exclusively the domain of the republicans, especially when it's directly in contradiction to the Constitution.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 39):
Maybe you're unclear on this particular usage of the word 'so' when used in response to some sort of statement?

You keep saying "I don't care" and yet keep responding.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):
So, don't give to the charlatans.

Our taxes go to those charlatans.
 
bennett123
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:31 pm

It would be nice to hear from some of these people which part of the Bible supports their actions.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Evangelists Discuss Why They Can't Fly Commercial

Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:07 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):

You keep saying "I don't care" and yet keep responding.

Oh, I understand. That's called "conversation" or "debate".

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
Our taxes go to those charlatans.

No, they don't. They just don't pay any taxes. Subtle difference. But, I agree with you. We need to review our laws and regulations when it comes to "tax-free" entities, especially religious organizations. But, as I noted in Reply 8:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
I'm not saying don't scrutinize them, but if there's a question or gray area, we have to come down on the side of The First Amendment.

We have to tread lightly when dealing with a constitutional right.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
They can get justices like Scalia and completely overturn the democratic process, which they are desperately trying to do.

To quote Senator Barbara Boxer:

"Elections have consequences"

If you don't like the way your elected officials vote, then vote them out.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
Not when that government can be bought by those same churches tax-free as "free speech" and "religious liberty" to interfere in government.

If a religious organization is interfering in government, that is a failure of elected and appointed officials. The law allows the government to investigate and strip religious organizations of their status, it's just that the bar is set high...and for good reason.

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