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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:19 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):

Having said that, I really think people are painting with a broad brush way too often. Nonetheless, there's no stopping it.

Yup. Say what we will about Fox, but they do sell shedloads of advertising time. They know their market.
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seb146
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:23 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
Please don't get hung up on a marketing slogan.

Repeat it enough times and, looking at this thread alone, people believe it.

Fox says they are the best because they use phone polls. Those phone polls call land line phones. Who owns land lines?

If I ask four people what color the sky is and three say green, it must be green. The most popular answer is green so, Americans agree the sky is green. The sky is green and anyone who says the sky is blue hates America and is a libtard. Why even argue facts? The sky is green.

This is Fox logic.

Back to the real issue. Iran investigated, sailors were released. No fuss, no muss. And Republicans are fuming there was no war.
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Revelation
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:30 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
Repeat it enough times and, looking at this thread alone, people believe it.

And tell big enough lies (like minorities and/or the poor are the source of our problems) and people lack any context to evaluate it, so the rely on "instinct". Goebbels et al understood this, it's know as the "Big Lie" theory.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
Fox says they are the best because they use phone polls. Those phone polls call land line phones. Who owns land lines?

Mostly old people set in their ways.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
Republicans are fuming there was no war.

This hasn't been the "October Surprise" they were looking for, but it's a long time before October...
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:10 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
This is Fox logic.

Me thinks you have a FOX complex. No, really.

FWIW, here are the current headlines from the three "News" sites:

FOX: GOP pundits hit back at SC gov's SOTU response, with a Breaking News headline about an attack of some sort in Indonesia.

CNN: Powerball winners, with a top story of the Indonesia incident.

MSNBC: Cruz dismisses report on loan, with the next being Rhetoric vs Reality on Obama foreign policy. (nothing on the Indonesia incident).

Frankly, FOX leaned Right from what I can see, MSNBC leaned Left, and CNN was sort of here and there. MSNBC, of the three, offered little other than political stuff, while FOX and CNN offered a lot of different headlines and story options to read.

Struggling to single out FOX as evil and others such as MSNBC as darlings, but perhaps it depends on our political viewpoint, tolerance, or maturity? Or just being tired after a long day and not really giving a crap about the sideshow stuff they offer.

-Dave
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:04 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 53):

FWIW, here are the current headlines from the three "News" sites:

Yep, you taking three snapshots at one instant in time is soooo meaningful.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 53):
Struggling to single out FOX as evil and others such as MSNBC as darlings

No one is saying others such as MSNBC are darlings. Where do you see that?

I for one am perfectly willing to say MSNBC wishes it was as successful at captivating its target audience and targeted advertisers as well as FOX does, and for the same reasons, capitalist greed.

I'm just commenting on the impact of FOX being as good as it is at what it does along with some suggestions about why I think they are so effective. Nowhere is it said MSNBC isn't trying some of the same things and just isn't doing as well at it. That too is an interesting topic, but it isn't what is being discussed here.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:31 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 54):
Yep, you taking three snapshots at one instant in time is soooo meaningful.

Thanks for the knock. Not sure what your point was as I never said it was "soooo meaningful"?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 54):
No one is saying others such as MSNBC are darlings. Where do you see that?

Just adding context. I get that the knee-jerk FOX-bad comments are the only one's worthy of applause, but I was actually quite interested to see the "news" being offered up by the three, and chose to share it. I don't think I drug MSNBC through the mud the way others here did with FOX. I just contrasted the different styles.

And, please tell me that you can see I was primarily directing my comments to Seb146 and his anti-FOX rants.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 54):
I'm just commenting

Yes, but I don't think I ever quoted or replied to any of your comments, so not sure why you feel the need to explain yourself to me?

-Dave
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WIederling
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:06 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 15):
So who's your source, Revelation?

Historic evidence gallore  
Murphy is an optimist
 
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seb146
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:59 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 53):
Struggling to single out FOX as evil and others such as MSNBC as darlings

Nope, but nice try.

First off, MSNBC does not constantly call itself "news" and "fair and balanced." They know they are biased. They make no qualms about it. I actually don't have a problem with Fox being biased. They just need to stop lying to their viewers. Stop with the "news" nonsense and stop with the lie they are "fair and balanced" because they are none of those things.

That is my problem with Fox.
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Revelation
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 55):
Just adding context.

Just inventing context, IMHO. Otherwise known as constructing a 'straw man' argument:

Quote:
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:10 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):
First off, MSNBC does not constantly call itself "news" and "fair and balanced."

That's their problem. Maybe if they did, they'd have more viewers, be more successful, and effect more change in the populace they are trying to reach.

From Wiki: "MSNBC is an American basic cable and satellite television network that provides NEWS coverage and political opinion on current events. It is owned by the NBCUniversal NEWS Group, a unit of the NBCUniversal Television Group division of NBCUniversal."

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):
That is my problem with Fox.

I have a feeling you'd find something new to "waaaaa" about if they dropped it

Quoting Revelation (Reply 58):
Just inventing context, IMHO. Otherwise known as constructing a 'straw man' argument:

I think you're bending over backwards to find something wrong with what I'm saying when I wasn't even addressing you, but I'm happy to give you the last word.

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MAH4546
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:15 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 57):
First off, MSNBC does not constantly call itself "news" and "fair and balanced." They know they are biased. They make no qualms about it. I actually don't have a problem with Fox being biased. They just need to stop lying to their viewers. Stop with the "news" nonsense and stop with the lie they are "fair and balanced" because they are none of those things.

It's not Fox News' fault that facts and reality lean conservative. What a liberal considers "fair and balanced" is skewed reality, hence why liberals are such fans of censorship and limits on free speech.
a.
 
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seb146
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:17 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 59):
Maybe if they did, they'd have more viewers, be more successful, and effect more change in the populace they are trying to reach.

If they had done the Fox thing and demanded everyone call them "news" and "fair and balanced" since day one? no. But, we will never know, will we? MSNBC decided to play fair. MSNBC decided to play by the rules Fox set down. But Fox played by whatever rules they decided.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 59):
I have a feeling you'd find something new to "waaaaa" about if they dropped it

News vs. Opinion.... hmmmmm.....

Still, that has zero to do.....

oh, wait....

Obama didn't bomb the snot out of Iran, so he is weak. Yeah. There is that. Says Rafael "Ted" Cruz and Trump.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:43 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 61):
If they had done the Fox thing and demanded everyone call them "news" and "fair and balanced" since day one?

"Demanded"? You really do have the victim card down, don't you? lol

Quoting seb146 (Reply 61):
Obama didn't bomb the snot out of Iran, so he is weak. Yeah. There is that. Says Rafael "Ted" Cruz and Trump.

Well, I meant you'd find something else to "waaaaa" about with FOX News if they dropped the "Fair and Balanced" bs, but I guess whatever is fine. You do understand the difference between what a politician says and what MSNBC/FOX/CNN/etc say, don't you? I worry that it all sort of blurs for you, which might explain the emotional responses.

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LMP737
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:16 am

Looks like that lieutenants career is over.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/14/politics/navy-boats-iran-waters/
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flyingturtle
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:05 pm

Dear Maj. Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari,

Commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards,


please release this thread from the imbecile "discussions" about the true meaning of "news".


Signed,


David
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WIederling
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:45 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 63):

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/14/politics/navy-boats-iran-waters/

wonder why they are so uptight at home.

nothing what could have been deemed complimentary action:
Nobody carelessly shot .. "ups"
No cable ties
No bags over the head
No water boarding.

next time I'd advise purchase of a chart plotter and up to date charts.
( Navionics are rather good.)
also the use of a tow rope is not unheard of either.

With best friend SA giving the finger to Iran
it would not have been completely unfounded for Iran
to perceive the instance as a US provocation.

[Edited 2016-01-15 06:56:59]
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Aesma
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:27 pm

This incident wouldn't have made the news if Iran was not the great satan for the GOP. I mean, in France we heard about the powerball, several times on prime time news, but not about this.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 60):
What a liberal considers "fair and balanced" is skewed reality, hence why liberals are such fans of censorship and limits on free speech.

I guess Vladimir Putin is a liberal. And the new government in Poland too.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 43):
If you can't stick to the topic please show some respect to the forum, the site and the A-net community in general by not wasting the time of those posters that can.

Rant Over

So, in what way did you stick to the topic ?
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 66):
This incident wouldn't have made the news if Iran was not the great satan for the GOP. I mean, in France we heard about the powerball, several times on prime time news, but not about this.

A few years ago the British Royal Marines Commandos accidentally stormed a tourist beach in Spain near Gibraltar during a training exercise. It looked a bit surreal, seeing camed up Marines in full gear and with rifles and machine guns jumping off their RIBs on a beach full of topless women and little children. It was an embarrassment for the Marines (they also claimed a navigation error), and they received a lot of teasing from their Army counterparts, and the Spanish authorities were a bit annoyed, but everything got sorted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...m-ashore-in-the-wrong-country.html

But it was shown again that the most dangerous being on earth is a lieutenant with a map.

Jan
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WIederling
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:25 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 67):

Imagine the British press clamoring that this was due to showing a teat or two and
the Queen calling in the Spanish ambassador for some juicy lambasting.

re Officer with a map:

There is that quip from a military bigwig that he would prefer an intelligent lazy subordinate to a dumb zealous one any time. ( should I look for the proper citation ?)



This one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_vo...-Equord#Classification_of_officers



[Edited 2016-01-15 08:30:20]
[Edited 2016-01-15 08:52:56]


[Edited 2016-01-15 08:53:49]

[Edited 2016-01-15 08:54:22]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:06 pm

I think that Eisenhower used a similar classification and which tasks to delegate to whom.

Jan
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flyingturtle
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:14 pm

"A search-and-rescue effort was launched -- including sending a U.S. Navy vessel inside Iranians waters due to concern the sailors could have been overboard and in the water. The U.S. Navy informed Iranian military vessels in the area they were coming in for a search-and-rescue, the official said. There were "robust bridge-to-bridge communications" during that
time, but there was no trouble, the official said."

This, Mr. Tom Cotton and friends, is not what a Navy would do if they were dealing with an enemy.


David

Quoting WIederling (Reply 68):
There is that quip from a military bigwig that he would prefer an intelligent lazy subordinate to a dumb zealous one any time. ( should I look for the proper citation ?)

Yes, there are intelligent and dumb, and lazy and industrious officers.

Dumb and lazy: Can't be used for any purpose, but they are not a danger as they don't accomplish anything at all.
Dumb and industrious: Can be used for some purposes. Need much supervision. Because they're so busy, they can work up the ladder quickly - where they can't be removed from, because they point to their hard work as a defense. The most dangerous officer.
Intelligent and industrious: Can be used for most purposes. You want most of your staff to be intelligent and industrious. Need little supervision.
Intelligent and lazy: Due to their calmness, these officers are suitable for the highest levels of command. They do not interfere with other officers, they do not micromanage, but when serious shit happens, they spring into action and save the day with their superior decision-making abilities.

Yes, there is much truth to it, IMHO.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 69):
I think that Eisenhower used a similar classification and which tasks to delegate to whom.

This? http://www.accountsresource.co.uk/wp...oads/2013/07/Eisenhower-matrix.png


David
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rfields5421
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 45):
You're just full of $hit.

We both lived through those years,

1) I went through school desegration three times, 1965, 1967, 1970.

2) The Klan burned a cross outside my family church in 1963 because the priest allowed a black woman (in town for a family funeral) to attend mass, though she had to sit in the choir loft, not in the main sanctuary.

3) I had my car stopped and surrounded by Klansmen who were doing fund raising at a highway intersection in 1978, when one realized my Asian wife and two mixed-race children were in the car. Their shouted comments were disgusting. We were 'rescued' by a state trooper who added more insults, but cleared the way for us to get out of the area.

4) I grew up in a town where no 'Negros' were allowed to buy property or rent (still as of December 2015, no blacks have ever lived within the city limits.)

There were so many similar instances, that I assumed that was the normal way of life until I left the rural South.

I remember news media saying exactly what I said above, though it was mainly print, but a few radio station commentators.

With the changes in equal time requirements, and the lack of requirements for cable networks to provide opposing views, I'm absolutely certain Fox News would take a segregationist line.

Actually, Fox News does have a strong segregationist viewpoint/ agenda against Hispanics, painting them all as illegals.

On 1963, it was acceptable for news media to make statements about the proof that Negros were inferior, and their high crime potential, especially against white women. Fox would just be part of the crowd.

(Of course, the individual program hosts and guests make the statements, not the 'network' per se. However, the network management controls who is given the opportunity to have air time and make such statements.)

Quoting seb146 (Reply 51):
Repeat it enough times and, looking at this thread alone, people believe it.

Unfortunately, some 85-90% of my extended family members whom I love dearly, believe every word spoken on Fox is the rock solid truth, and many acquaintances.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 70):
Dumb and lazy: Can't be used for any purpose, but they are not a danger as they don't accomplish anything at all.
Dumb and industrious: Can be used for some purposes. Need much supervision. Because they're so busy, they can work up the ladder quickly - where they can't be removed from, because they point to their hard work as a defense. The most dangerous officer.
Intelligent and industrious: Can be used for most purposes. You want most of your staff to be intelligent and industrious. Need little supervision.
Intelligent and lazy: Due to their calmness, these officers are suitable for the highest levels of command. They do not interfere with other officers, they do not micromanage, but when serious shit happens, they spring into action and save the day with their superior decision-making abilities.

Don't forget that the dumb-but-industrious officers will excell in routine situations, but will not have the intellect to understand when out of the box thinking is required. They will still insist that everything should be done to SOPs.
They will be out of their depth if something happens which is not covered by standard procedures. I also knew a few pilots in the civilian world like this, who know all procedures by heart, and rose quite fast to senior positions because of this, but got aircraft into serious, if not dangerous situations because of this.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 70):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 69):
I think that Eisenhower used a similar classification and which tasks to delegate to whom.

This? http://www.accountsresource.co.uk/wp...x.png

Yes, this is what I meant.

An intelligent fresh lieutenant will listen to his (hopefully) experienced platoon sergeant until he has collected some experience of his own.

If you remember the series Band of Brothers, there is the depiction of the captain (Capt. Sobel), who trained the new paratroopers, but later turned out to be a complete failure in tactical situations during training exercises in England, so that his soldiers mutined against him and he was removed from commanding the parachute company. I checked on him, as her really existed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Sobel.
But afterwards he proved to be a competent logistician, but he was not a combat officer, being quick to adapt to a quck changing environment.

Jan

[Edited 2016-01-15 09:39:14]
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WIederling
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 72):

German WWI ++ military Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord seems to be the originator.
Interesting history.
His daughters were in communist intelligence and he intended to provide an accident
for Hitler should he ever visit one of his bunkers.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 72):
They will still insist that everything should be done to SOPs.

Yes, it's sad, these Sons Of a Procedure. That's why training must be as real as possible, to make people "fail" often enough to instill a sense for improvisation. I see that in my first aid organization where you know that there are only a few possible emergencies, but yet the environment always changes. Where is the emergency taking place? Who can you task with something? What do I do after the person is reasonably secure, but still needs to be transported or sheltered?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 72):
Capt. Sobel

Here, Montgomery comes to mind. An adept logistician, and master of rather static standard situations, while the Germans excelled at maneuver warfare. When he "planned" Market Garden, an operation with quick operations and long distances to be covered every day, it just had to fail. And also Lloyd Fredendall who was a good trainer, but an inept and overcautious guy when stationed in North Africa. Long lines of communication, no mutual fire support for the front units, and building an underground command bunker into solid rock - dozens of miles away from the front. Add to that micromanagement...


But well, we digress again. Back on topic using the following link - Lt. Gen. Van Riper supposedly plays Iran during a hostility, and manages to sink a sizeable part of the US Navy in the process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
wingman
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 67):
A few years ago the British Royal Marines Commandos accidentally stormed a tourist beach in Spain near Gibraltar during a training exercise.

I could understand that on the Isle of Wight, but Marbella? Benny Hill would've spotted those boobs from a mile offshore. I never heard that story, it'd certainly make these SEALs feel a bit better about themselves.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 74):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 72):
They will still insist that everything should be done to SOPs.

Yes, it's sad, these Sons Of a Procedure. That's why training must be as real as possible, to make people "fail" often enough to instill a sense for improvisation. I see that in my first aid organization where you know that there are only a few possible emergencies, but yet the environment always changes. Where is the emergency taking place? Who can you task with something? What do I do after the person is reasonably secure, but still needs to be transported or sheltered?

I remember a major training exercise when I was in the German civil defence (Technisches Hilfswerk) during Cold war, when such exercises had a high degree of reality. Sudenly our section leaders (squad leaders, "Gruppenführer") were removed and declared casualties on orders of the referees, just to see how we would get on with the tasks with part of the chain of command missing. Or another exercise, where we were deliberately kept awake for 48 hours (and had to prepare and carry out a demolotion using explosives towards the end of this time). I remember falling asleep sitting on a carboard box full of explosives, when we had a lull after having prepared, but not yet loaded the charges.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 74):
Here, Montgomery comes to mind. An adept logistician, and master of rather static standard situations, while the Germans excelled at maneuver warfare. When he "planned" Market Garden, an operation with quick operations and long distances to be covered every day, it just had to fail. And also Lloyd Fredendall who was a good trainer, but an inept and overcautious guy when stationed in North Africa. Long lines of communication, no mutual fire support for the front units, and building an underground command bunker into solid rock - dozens of miles away from the front. Add to that micromanagement...

Rommel on the other hand was a genius at tactical level, but didn't care much about his logistics, causing him to outreach his logistics chain and running out of supplies.
Another thing about Montgomery, who, like many of British officers of his generation, had first hand experience of the trench fighting of WW1 (where he was a frontline lieutenant): He always made sure that he had at least a local superiority before each (successful) battle he fought and was very reluctant to sacrifice his troops unnecessarily.
Market Garden was a very uncharacteristic in that he made a gamble.

Jan
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flyingturtle
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:14 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 76):

Sadly, my hearing disability has barred me from joining the military, the civil service, the civil protection - and had to go for other opportunities. The priorities of our army, for example, are disputed, but yet I would have gone to do something like this. Just gathering experience, being put in a situation and make the best out of it.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 76):
had first hand experience of the trench fighting of WW1

It's fascinating to learn how the differences between the armies all played out... when I read history books, then it's mostly about World War II.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
BestWestern
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:09 am

So Cruz would have bombed and asked questions later.

Meanwhile diplomacy solved the day.

"And I give you my word, if I am elected president, no service man or service woman will be forced to be on their knees, and any nation that captures our fighting men and women will feel the full force and fury of the United States of America".
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:12 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 78):
"And I give you my word, if I am elected president, no service man or service woman will be forced to be on their knees, and any nation that captures our fighting men and women will feel the full force and fury of the United States of America".

Even if American troops illegally enter undisputed national territory of another nation.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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seb146
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:23 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 62):
You do understand the difference between what a politician says and what MSNBC/FOX/CNN/etc say, don't you?

When Fox runs with it. Their latest narrative is Obama is weak in foreign policy. In other words: bomb the snot out of "them" is the acceptable foreign policy. War is the answer. That is the latest drum beat. These right wing politicians just say what Fox codes.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 62):
"Demanded"? You really do have the victim card down, don't you?

What about Palin, O'Reilly, Hannity, and the Fox Babes crying that they are not main stream media as the voice over announcer tells everyone they are the most watched cable news channel? That is not playing victim? Surely you jest.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:18 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 80):
When Fox runs with it. Their latest narrative is Obama is weak in foreign policy. In other words: bomb the snot out of "them" is the acceptable foreign policy. War is the answer. That is the latest drum beat. These right wing politicians just say what Fox codes.

You mean like talking points? You think that the right has any sort of corner on the media/politician crossover? No need to answer - yes, you do.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 80):
What about Palin, O'Reilly, Hannity, and the Fox Babes crying that they are not main stream media as the voice over announcer tells everyone they are the most watched cable news channel? That is not playing victim? Surely you jest.

Ok, here's the thing. They are a business in it for the dollar. They are marketing themselves. You, on the other hand, are really you.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:26 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 66):

I guess Vladimir Putin is a liberal. And the new government in Poland too.

Well...when you are a modern day republican they probably are.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LMP737
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:28 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 31):
But other pundits criticize Obama for not using a harder stance against Iran in this case, or for not mentioning this in the State of the Onion speech.

Listening to some of them talk I got the impression that the only viable response would be to go in guns blazing and that if the President didn't do just that the US would suffer from a humiliation from which it would never recover.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:00 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 83):

established MoO since at least 1898:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish%E2%80%93American_War#USS_Maine

Provocation (,reaction ) followed by forward "defence".
Sometimes they even forget the initial chapter like in Grenada  

[Edited 2016-01-16 04:05:14]
Murphy is an optimist
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20078
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:08 pm

Iran has also released four American prisoners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35333656

Quote:
Iran has released Washington Post reporter Jason Rezaian and three other Iranian-American prisoners as it anticipates the lifting of international sanctions. Rezaian, 39, was convicted of espionage in Iran last year.

Iranian state TV named the other three as Saeed Abedini, Amir Hekmati and and Nosratollah Khosravi.Iran said they were being swapped for seven Iranians held in US prisons but there was no immediate US confirmation.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:19 pm

Just to piss Bebe off!  
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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flyingturtle
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Breaking: Iran Seizes Two US Navy Boats In Gulf

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:38 pm

After the sailors on their boats have not been heard from, the USN suspected a man over board situation and sent a ship into Iranian waters, while indicating that they're on a search and rescue mission.

Tom Cotton: "WHAT? These barbarians seem to have a lazy day! Why didn't they sink the rescuers?" 

By the way, there is the right of innocent passage for all nations.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down

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