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timz
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Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:28 am

In other words, could the scene really have looked like this.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/AWTPNB/san-...alifornia-united-states-AWTPNB.jpg

It appeared in one of Galen Rowell's books, and likely in others since then. Good a guess as any it was taken from 37.8795N 122.2284W, at about 500 meters elevation. The thing that looks wrong is the cloud layer beyond the city-- you'd think the top of the clouds would be sort of level, not ramping upward into the distance as it is here. Think it's possible?

(If you're wondering about Sutro Tower, turns out it's just barely out of the pic.)

[Edited 2016-01-14 17:45:25]
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:45 am

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
you'd think the top of the clouds would be sort of level, not ramping upward into the distance as it is here.

What do you mean, ramping upward?
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DocLightning
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:10 am

This image is taken from the east and looking west. In San Francisco during the summer, the fog creeps eastward from morning until night. San Francisco has a number of hills that deflect the fog upwards as it passes over them.

This picture is certainly plausible for San Francisco.
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LittleFokker
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:16 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
San Francisco has a number of hills that deflect the fog upwards as it passes over them.

True, but just based on the angle of the downtown buildings, the lower photo is clearly taken from sea level or not very high above sea level (look closely at the Bay Bridge for reference). You wouldn't be able to see 10 miles or so worth of clouds in the background if you were looking up at the downtown buildings at about a 15-20 degree angle like that.

I think it's two separate images merged together. The background clouds just don't look like they fit with the foreground clouds.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:28 am

I have a giant sized, obviously fake, copy of a Renoir on my wall that looks, and is, more real than that "picture". That's not even a good photoshop.
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timz
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:28 am

Haven't checked, but I suspect if you go to his hill and measure the vertical-angle to the point in the sky that's the same angle above the BofA building as the most distant clouds in his pic, it'll be too many thousands of feet above the ocean.

In the pic, the distant cloud layer looks like he's looking down at the top of it-- which he wouldn't be doing, from 500 meters above sea level.

Also wonder if the sky above the clouds could look like that with the time exposure he gave to the skyline part of the pic.
 
timz
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 3):
the lower photo is clearly taken from sea level or not very high above sea level

The downtown buildings, you mean? That's what he shot from 500 meters elevation. The rest is the puzzle.
 
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:41 am

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
The downtown buildings, you mean? That's what he shot from 500 meters elevation

I do mean the buildings, but there is no way in hell that's 500 m (approx 1600 feet). The bay itself is sea level since it merges with the Pacific Ocean. The Transamerica building (with the famous pyramid top) only rises 853 feet and there's no way this photographer is looking down on that building from twice as high. Again, look at the Bay Bridge in the lower left hand corner of the picture for a better reference. Tops, this photographer was 50 feet above sea level.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
That's not even a good photoshop.

  
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DocLightning
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:42 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 3):

True, but just based on the angle of the downtown buildings, the lower photo is clearly taken from sea level or not very high above sea level (look closely at the Bay Bridge for reference). You wouldn't be able to see 10 miles or so worth of clouds in the background if you were looking up at the downtown buildings at about a 15-20 degree angle like that.

I still think this is a straight shot. It's what you would see using a telephoto lens (that's why the sizes are all skewed) from a helicopter at about 500 meters over the Oakland hills.
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seb146
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:28 am

It looks doctored. At least the East Bay part (lower). It is older. The city is a typical shot. It is the OAK-Yerba Buena Island part that looks off. It is beautiful, though.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:09 am

Quoting timz (Reply 5):
In the pic, the distant cloud layer looks like he's looking down at the top of it-- which he wouldn't be doing, from 500 meters above sea level.

Not sure I understand. This shot was taken from less than 500 meters:

http://www.vksphoto.com/Skyscapes/Comet-Pan-STARRS-March-2013/i-3sg3H86/0/L/IMG_6199-L.jpg

The shot just looks like an HDR (as is my shot). Looks like typical fog (which is what's in my shot too).
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:40 am

It looks all wrong. There are two different angles at play here between the clouds and the buildings. It looks like a bad photoshop of a skyline merged with an aerial view of clouds.
 
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seb146
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:37 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 11):
There are two different angles at play here between the clouds and the buildings. It looks like a bad photoshop of a skyline merged with an aerial view of clouds.

The city gets fog like that. But, you are right about the angles. There is something off about that picture.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 11):
There are two different angles at play here between the clouds and the buildings.

It's possible, but it's also possible that it's just a lot of compression from a telephoto lens, taken at a particular angle, making it look weird.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:23 pm

This shot look legit to me. The elevation combined with a super-telephoto will create some incredible compression that can fool what our brain expects to see. The angle is not shooting up at the skyline as pointed out above. The bridge and the lower right edge of the city/skyline clearly shows it looks down from above. Search google for other photos taken from an elevated position of the skyline and you'll see the tall buildings appear at an even sight line even though the shots are taken from above.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
It's possible, but it's also possible that it's just a lot of compression from a telephoto lens, taken at a particular angle, making it look weird.
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 14):
Search google for other photos taken from an elevated position of the skyline and you'll see the tall buildings appear at an even sight line even though the shots are taken from above.

I've googled some pics and I see what you guys mean, but there's something about the pic that just looks wrong. I found this pic which has been taken from roughly the same location in the same conditions and light, but it looks right. I'm not posting the pic as there is a copyright on it, but here's the link:

Fog City - San Francisco

If you look at the angle of the clouds in both pics they are very different. In the first pic the clouds look as if they were taken from a much higher location, something like the level in the pic below, yet the difference in the angle of the skyline is considerable:



However, you guys know the city better than me, but I'll need a bit more convincing.    I'm kind of thinking that the photographer knew what he was looking for, but couldn't have been bothered going to the trouble of waiting for the right conditions, so had a stab at it in Photoshop. And I can completely understand that, I've been guilty of the same myself:

http://i.imgur.com/zpkHx6d.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ypeJcIh.jpg

Same pic, but I couldn't have been bothered to wait for a full moon.  





[Edited 2016-01-15 10:37:31]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 15):
Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 15):
However, you guys know the city better than me, but I'll need a bit more convincing.    I'm kind of thinking that the photographer knew what he was looking for, but couldn't have been bothered going to the trouble of waiting for the right conditions, so had a stab at it in Photoshop. And I can completely understand that, I've been guilty of the same myself:

I disagree. I do a lot of compositing work and I also work closely with a guy who fakes conditions if he can't get them and he thinks this is legit as well. With such extreme compression going on, distance and elevation are crucial to how a photo will appear and you can find comparable shots but even at locations just a few feet off on distance, angle and elevation the differences between the two photos will be pretty drastic. The only way to prove that it's possible is to shoot from the same exact spot with the same focal length and the same conditions. But I can only state based on my experience with photography and my familiarity with the city that it looks like it could be legit. I'm confident that if it was a clear evening with no fog, nothing would strike anyone as being off. But the fog adds a whole new dimension and tricks the eye.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 16):
With such extreme compression going on, distance and elevation are crucial to how a photo will appear and you can find comparable shots but even at locations just a few feet off on distance, angle and elevation the differences between the two photos will be pretty drastic.

   Exactly.

Certain angles and elevations will just look off, while slightly higher or lower, or a bit to the left or right, might look perfectly natural.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 15):
Same pic, but I couldn't have been bothered to wait for a full moon.

Nice job with the moon reflection.  
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timz
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 7):
there is no way in hell that's 500 m

If you go to 37.8795N 122.2284W, you'll see he took the pic of the skyline from about 500 m above sea level.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):

Quoting timz (Reply 5):
In the pic, the distant cloud layer looks like he's looking down at the top of it-- which he wouldn't be doing, from 500 meters above sea level.

Not sure I understand. This shot was taken from less than 500 meters:

In his shot, the top of the cloud layer is beyond downtown SF, 20+ km away. In your shot the cloud tops are much closer-- right? That's the problem.

However! The objections to the cloud layer in Rowell's pic apply to this one as well, taken from a bit farther north and a bit lower, years later

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffcheah/6131653169

and I'm somehow inclined to believe that one. (Note how much darker the skyline is in that one.)

[Edited 2016-01-15 11:27:34]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:28 pm

Just take this shot I found on google images, taken from what appears to be a similar spot. Crop in a bit to match the composition of the other shot and you can see land and water in the distance behind the skyline. If you can see the terrain "ramp up" then you'd see the fog layer do the same behind the city. Then throw in another fog layer in the foreground and you get the shot in question. I don't see what's wrong here. The shot in question still looks legit.



[Edited 2016-01-15 12:36:15]

[Edited 2016-01-15 12:47:55]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 18):
In his shot, the top of the cloud layer is beyond downtown SF, 20+ km away. In your shot the cloud tops are much closer-- right? That's the problem.

Why is that a problem? In my shot, the most distant clouds are probably around 10 km away (no idea really, but that's a guess). He's considerably higher up than I was (I was at around 250-300 meters, I think), and the cloud peaks are probably close to the same height in both shots. So naturally he would be able to see farther away.
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:02 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 19):
If you can see the terrain "ramp up" then you'd see the fog layer do the same behind the city.

But there's a natural incline in the background. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fog doesn't follow the contours of the terrain: it usually flattens at the top, so if there was fog in that pic, it wouldn't appear as inclined as the terrain.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:11 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):

As someone who has watched the fog literally pour in up and over those hills, id say it is likely the fog does follow the contour of the land. You can see in the photo exactly where that hill is. It's the dark region to the left beneath the "a". But I'm not only talking about that hill. Look at the pic I posted. The horizon is above the skyline. That gives you an idea of how high the cloud line should be behind the skyline, factoring in some additional space for the thickness of the fog of course.

[Edited 2016-01-15 14:12:55]
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:29 pm

Another shot that can be cropped accordingly and shows how high the line extends behind the skyline.



Also worth noting that the farther out you go away from the coast, the thicker the cloud layer could be.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but fog doesn't follow the contours of the terrain: it usually flattens at the top, so if there was fog in that pic, it wouldn't appear as inclined as the terrain.

If the wind follows the terrain (as would be expected to a certain extent), the fog can do so too. If the air is just rising adiabatically, then yes, you'd expect the fog to go away at a set altitude. But I don't think wind falls under that.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:05 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 22):
As someone who has watched the fog literally pour in up and over those hills, id say it is likely the fog does follow the contour of the land

Hmmmmm . . . looking at some more pics of fog in SF I think what you're probably talking about the fog rolling in over the hills, then it seems to settle to a level which gives it that flat top look.

I'm probably applying my toupee theory here: if you look at man's hair and can't figure out if it's a toupee or not, you can be guaranteed it IS one. There are a couple of things about that first picture that just LOOKS fake (to me anyway): the angle of the clouds vs the angle of the buildings and the way the outline of some of the buildings are too clean. The buildings don't seem to blend in naturally to the fog at all (compared to the Fog City pic I posted earlier they look as if they've just been plonked in there).

When I look at the OP's pic, all I keep seeing is a city skyline with a layer of clouds superimposed over it - at the wrong angle.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:06 am

Heres a side-by-side with another shot that has been cropped to match the frame. You can see how everything lines up.

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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:33 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 26):

Heres a side-by-side with another shot that has been cropped to match the frame. You can see how everything lines up.

I think this is going to be a case of the blue/black white/gold dress that broke the internet last year! Honestly I can't see how the contours of the terrain in the right pic bear any resemblance to the top of the fog in the first. It just makes the first pic look even more fake now: it looks as if the backgroud has been cut out completely and a fake one put in.

Looks like we're just not going to agree here, but still, I love these puzzles and it's been good fun. Short of getting the raw file we're just not going to solve it here.

Also, while it may be mid-afternoon in San Fran, it's past midnight here and time to hit the sack.   
 
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 27):

I think this is going to be a case of the blue/black white/gold dress that broke the internet last year! Honestly I can't see how the contours of the terrain in the right pic bear any resemblance to the top of the fog in the first. It just makes the first pic look even more fake now: it looks as if the backgroud has been cut out completely

Honestly, I'm baffled that it isn't clear with the side-by-side. You can even see the dark bump right where that hill is. That's the only land feature that would create a noticebale effect from above.
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rfields5421
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:43 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 21):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but fog doesn't follow the contours of the terrain: it usually flattens at the top, so if there was fog in that pic, it wouldn't appear as inclined as the terrain.

I haven't spent a lot of time in San Francisco, but in my limited time there I've seen fog 'boiling' over terrain features. There needs to be a slight wind to keep the fog from settling. Or I guess that might technically be a low cloud rather than fog. I've seen 'fog' follow terrain many times, San Diego, Japan, west Texas.

Often fog is a complete blanket covering an entire area, but along rocky coasts, it often is patchy, leaving some areas clear and others covered.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:36 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 28):
Honestly, I'm baffled that it isn't clear with the side-by-side. You can even see the dark bump right where that hill is. That's the only land feature that would create a noticebale effect from above.

Oh I can see the bump all right, and it seems to be where that hill is, but the rest of the clouds do not follow the contours of the terrain at all, in fact they are more-or-less at the one height. There is no downward slope behind the tall buildings, otherwise there would be a shadow, as there is in front of the hump. Your pic looks as if it's taken from roughly the same location (top of a hill, perhaps?). if that's the case, the clouds in the left pic would be much higher, which is why -- to me -- the background seems to have been completely cut out and replaced by clouds.
 
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seb146
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:46 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 26):
Heres a side-by-side

The clouds look grainy compared to the buildings. I still think it is doctored.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:58 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 30):

What contours do you expect the fog to follow? It's a ceiling. It remains pretty constant above the terrain, the exception here being the large hill. The marine layer would be rather flat and uniform as it extends out of sight at the horizon. You can layer the two photos on top of each other. I could take the fog from the left and create the same image using the skyline on the right. I could fake fog to illustrate my point. The fog extends from right behind the skyline all the way out to the horizon. What's the issue here??

I'm seriously baffled.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:36 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 31):
The clouds look grainy compared to the buildings. I still think it is doctored.

Not sure what grain has to do with it. The skyline is mostly silhouetted so the darker tones wouldn't show as much grain. Same goes for the bright window lights.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:44 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
I'm seriously baffled.

So am I!   

You're saying:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
What contours do you expect the fog to follow? It's a ceiling.

Yet earlier you were saying:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 22):
As someone who has watched the fog literally pour in up and over those hills, id say it is likely the fog does follow the contour of the land.

I'm taking a liberty here as the Fog City pic is copyrighted, but I'll remove it tomorrow. Looking at the two pics side by side, the angle of the clouds is very different, which is why I think it looks wrong. The clouds are angled too steeply compared to the angle of the skyline. It just doesn't look right:

http://i.imgur.com/rxcEzse.jpg
 
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:59 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 34):

You left out the part where I said the exception was the large hill, which I also said was the only land feature large enough to influence the fog. In your new example you can still see that influence. Everything else would be fairly uniform and follow the line of sight to the horizon.

Also worth noting that your example is a long exposure so the fog movement changes the appearance of the fog. The shot in question was taken with a fast shutter speed, which is also indicated by the appearance of grain.

Another difference is the top of the cloud layer. In your example the fog looks thicker. In the shot in question the top of the clouds is below the tallest buildings. That's what causes the cut-out look.

[Edited 2016-01-16 01:06:44]
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:35 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 35):
Another difference is the top of the cloud layer. In your example the fog looks thicker. In the shot in question the top of the clouds is below the tallest buildings. That's what causes the cut-out look

The fog in first pic looks a bit thicker than the first, but I don't think it's enough to cause the difference in angle: in the right pic you really seem to be looking down on the fog from quite a height, it's something like flying over clouds. In the other pic you're looking across the clouds, which you would expect. Also, the fog miraculously disappears before the main block of buildings, which gives it that Photoshopped look. Otherwise it would have to be angled very steeply to disappear behind the buildings like that.

As a photographer, you will know the incredible results you can get using all sorts of editing software and it can be very hard to tell what's real and what's not, but the original pic just doesn't look real at all (to me anyway).

I don't think we're going to agree here!

[Edited 2016-01-16 01:40:47]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:56 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 36):

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 35):
Another difference is the top of the cloud layer. In your example the fog looks thicker. In the shot in question the top of the clouds is below the tallest buildings. That's what causes the cut-out look

The fog in first pic looks a bit thicker than the first, but I don't think it's enough to cause the difference in angle: in the right pic you really seem to be looking down on the fog from quite a height, it's something like flying over clouds. In the other pic you're looking across the clouds, which you would expect. Also, the fog miraculously disappears before the main block of buildings, which gives it that Photoshopped look. Otherwise it would have to be angled very steeply to disappear behind the buildings like that.

As a photographer, you will know the incredible results you can get using all sorts of editing software and it can be very hard to tell what's real and what's not, but that first pic just doesn't look real at all (to me anyway).

I don't think we're going to agree here!

First of all your example isn't taken from the same spot so elevation appears to be different. You can't ignore those differences. You also cannot ignore the difference that the fog thickness would play. We also don't know how close the fog is to the buildings. There's a wall of fog and the fog approaches the city from the west, so the fog would be approaching the photographer. So at some point you would get a shot of the skyline with fog lurking just behind. We have no idea where the foreground fog is except for between the photographer and Treaure Island so what appears to be a miraculous hole could just be the result of perspective and compression.

In my side-by-side example you can draw a line from the top of the tallest building up to the top of the hazy layer at the horizon and then go to the original pic and draw a line from that same building to the fog at the horizon and the line is the same length. So any layer between the ground and the top of that building that extentds to the horizon would follow that same line up to the horizon.

I wish google earth had more detail and flexibility so I could create a profile view and a compressed view from the photogs location and create an animation that rotates the view so you could see how this works.

And yes I know how photography works and how things can be manipulated, which is precisely why I don't think this was faked. There's no need to fake it!!
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:03 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 37):
First of all your example isn't taken from the same spot so elevation appears to be different

To me it looks as if it's taken from the exact same spot. I don't know the location, but I'm sure it's one (top of a hill) that's well-used by photographers and chosen for the best view.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 37):
And yes I know how photography works and how things can be manipulated, which is precisely why I don't think this was faked. There's no need to fake it!!

I think that's your strongest point: if you're going to Photoshop something you could do a much better job than that! It just doesn't look real at all . . .
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:18 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 38):

There isn't just one location to shoot from. It's the other side of the bay! Your example was taken a good distance to the left of the original shot. The closest I could find on google was the shot I put next to it and I layered them on top of each other and they fit nearly perfectly. I'll post that composite when I get a chance.

To me it looks real. Faking it would be a waste of energy and probably wouldn't line up as well as it does to the clear shot.

[Edited 2016-01-16 02:19:23]
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:54 am

Okay...

Side-by-side:


Left shot layered over the right shot with 50% opacity to reveal the right shot underneath:


Another fog shot found on google from same vantage point:


[Edited 2016-01-16 02:54:52]
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Toni_
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:37 pm



Quoting myself last friday before I abruptly had to leave and couldn't finish the post while google searching for images to check the horizon line  bigthumbsup :

I'm gonna say fake too. It looks as if there are 2 horizon lines

I'm fully convinced by Silver1SWA now. It seems to match perfectly and looks legit. I guess the illusion is caused by how the fog rolls over those hills. Pretty impressive!

[Edited 2016-01-17 06:40:14]
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:51 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmm . . . I still remain to be convinced. I take the point over the positioning of the fog vs the landscape, but there is just something fake looking about the pic. I don't think the clouds fit in with the pic at all: they look completely wrong. If you look at the last pic in post 40 or this one:



you'll notice the amount of detail in the fog, which is absent in the Alamy pic, apart from the foreground. If it were a long exposure I could understand it, but the detail in the fog in the foreground suggests it not a long exposure. Look at the detail in the pic in the link in post 18 and you'll see what I mean. All these other pics look real, there is nothing wrong with them at all, but that Alamy pic looks as if a shot of clouds was superimposed on the city.



[Edited 2016-01-17 11:17:50]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 42):

Perhaps it's the colors throwing you off? I don't understand your point about the fog details. I see plenty of detail in the distance of the original shot.

I guess there is just no convincing you. I think I have shown that it's entirely possible to get this shot without faking it, so why would someone fake it? No two fog banks look exactly the same so you won't find another shot that looks 100% identical.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:39 pm

I know I shouldn't be altering this photo but for demonstration purposes only I desaturated the fog. I think it helps give it a more natural feel. Also by removing the blue, a slight yellow glow can be seen in the fog right behind the skyline, caused by the city lights.

It's just a whole lot of effort to fake something that happens naturally probably 100 days a year.



[Edited 2016-01-17 11:40:48]

Also, another factor could be depth of field. The photographer could have been shooting 400-600mm and if shot wide open (f/4 or even f/2.8) the city would be in focus and the foreground and background could be out of focus which would lower fog detail a bit and also make the city skyline "pop" more.


[Edited 2016-01-17 12:39:52]
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timz
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:20 pm

Hyperfocal distance with a 500 mm at f/4 would be 5 km or less, so you can forget about depth of field.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:41 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 45):

Hyperfocal distance with a 500 mm at f/4 would be 5 km or less, so you can forget about depth of field.

Ah yes, duh. I forgot the distances we are talking here. Thanks.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:40 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 43):
I don't understand your point about the fog details. I see plenty of detail in the distance of the original shot.

But compare it to the other pics. It just looks different.


Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 43):
I guess there is just no convincing you. I think I have shown that it's entirely possible to get this shot without faking it, so why would someone fake it? No two fog banks look exactly the same so you won't find another shot that looks 100% identical.

Yeah, I don't know what it is, but there is just something fishy about it, and I'm not being awkward here. Kind of instinct more than anything, I just think it LOOKS completely wrong. All the other pics look 100% genuine and I have no problem with them, but there is just something about that pic that has me scratching my head. I don't even think it's a good pic.

As for faking it, like I said earlier, I suspect the photographer had seen similar pics before, but just couldn't have been arsed waiting for the right conditions. He could have run that up in ten minutes and saved himself the bother of waiting for a foggy day and then driving (or walking) up to the top of that hill to take the shot.

Lazy bastard . . .   
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:51 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 47):
As for faking it, like I said earlier, I suspect the photographer had seen similar pics before, but just couldn't have been arsed waiting for the right conditions. He could have run that up in ten minutes and saved himself the bother of waiting for a foggy day and then driving (or walking) up to the top of that hill to take the shot.

So he took a separate shot of fog somewhere and inserted it perfectly so that all the lines match up with that perspective? Or you saying he stole someone else's shot of fog and inserted it into his own?

C'mon man...
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Braybuddy
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RE: Think This Pic Is A Straight Shot?

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:13 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 48):
So he took a separate shot of fog somewhere and inserted it perfectly so that all the lines match up with that perspective? Or you saying he stole someone else's shot of fog and inserted it into his own?

He could have either had a pic of the skyline and blended it with a stock shot of clouds or found both online. It wouldn't be difficult. I don't even think the perspective matches.

I've just looked at it again and again and the more I do the more I think it's faked. The way the clouds shroud the buildings on the left looks odd compared to the ones in the middle. The scale of the clouds doesn't match (IMHO!) the buildings.

We're just not going to agree here at all, and I have to repeat, I'm NOT being awkward. Short of seeing the original raw file I'm just not going to believe it's real.

However, it's a fascinating debate, and interesting to see how people can see completely different things, just like that white/gold/blue/black dress last year.

[Edited 2016-01-17 16:14:08]

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