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OA260
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Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:43 pm

Apple just announced that they have had the slowest growth in iPhone sales since the launch in 2007.

What next for Apple? Rumour is an upgraded version of the 5S which maybe cheaper and back to the original size.


Apple iPhone sales lower than expected

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35412892

[Edited 2016-01-26 13:46:16]
 
1g
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:49 pm

That's ironic because as a person who is not really a fan of Apple products, the iPhone 6S is the best phone they have released in a while. I guess after very minimal changes year after year, people finally got fed up with the 6S.

A rumor I heard about the next iPhone (iPhone 7 presumably) is that it's getting rid of the headphone jack. Probably because the headphone jack takes quite a bit of space and Apple is trying to make their phones thinner and cram more stuff in.

I hope they don't get rid of the headphone jack... last thing I want in the market is headphones that work with certain devices and not others.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:11 pm

Yeah I went to their store and they have this beautiful 12" laptop... with of course no CD drive, no hard drive and not even USB ports. So yeah, it can't do anything.

By the way, OA, it wasn't "slowest sales" since 2007 because they sell probably 48 times more phones now than in Q4 2007. 48 million versus around 1 million in 2007. For Q1, it was 78.5 million versus 2.3 million in Q1 2008.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:23 pm

Slowest Sales GROWTH! You forgot the word growth...
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:26 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 1):
Apple is trying to make their phones thinner

Am I the only one that does not understand the obsession of making smart phones thinner and thinner? It makes no sense at all. To avoid damaging the phone eveyone adds a protective casing or cover anyway, thus making the phone just as thick as yesteryear's Nokia 3310.

I'd be be very happy for the phone to be twice as thick if it means that no aftermarket case is needed. We know it's possible. Samsung for instance has the XCover series which, from personal experience, is every bit as durable as the trusty old 3310.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:33 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 1):
That's ironic because as a person who is not really a fan of Apple products, the iPhone 6S is the best phone they have released in a while. I guess after very minimal changes year after year, people finally got fed up with the 6S.

I am actually the opposite I dont like the 6 or 6S at all. I dont like the thinner or bigger design. The 5S I still have and would not swap it for a 6S unless I had no choice. I might even buy another 5S unless we see a so called 5Se launched. I had the 4/4S/5/5S so always upgraded on the day of launch. The 6 changed everything for me.

So I hope that they do upgrade the 5S and at least it will be another model to choose from and broaden their range on offer. I cant see myself switching to HTC/Samsung etc..
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:50 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
Slowest Sales GROWTH! You forgot the word growth...

That doesn't downplay the severity of the issues facing AAPL. Companies like AAPL are valued on their ability to maintain growth: PV = CF/(r-g) where "g" is growth. When growth gets smaller, the value of the firm goes down in a hurry.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:04 pm

Pretty simple and not surprising to me. There is a lot more quality competition in the smart phone market than there was when the first Iphone was released. There is the argument also to be made that the 6S with the exception of the 3D touch was playing catch up to competitors' products that had already been on the market for at least a year.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:08 pm

Hopefully they come up with something good, because I have a pretty hefty amount of stock in them...
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:21 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 1):
I guess after very minimal changes year after year, people finally got fed up with the 6S.

While every other model looks similar to the previous one there are significant changes internally, like moving from an A7 to an A8 processor. Apple is pretty intense in the evolution of the iPhone, be it with OS, software, components or "style" and continues to invest heavily in the product. The fact that they are pulling in something like 90% of the profits in the smart phone market shows they are doing a good job.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:26 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
The fact that they are pulling in something like 90% of the profits in the smart phone market shows they are doing a good job.

Or it means they are putting all their eggs in one basket and they aren't performing in that sector the way they once did due to a bunch of quality competition.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:47 pm

You can get a very competent smartphone for less than a third of the price of an iPhone so more and more people will wonder if they're worth it.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Yeah I went to their store and they have this beautiful 12" laptop... with of course no CD drive, no hard drive and not even USB ports. So yeah, it can't do anything.

I agree with you. That is a lame product.

Go MBA or MBP instead....beautiful machines.

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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:32 am

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 8):
because I have a pretty hefty amount of stock in them

They made $18Billion in profits.... you'll be a'ight.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:23 am

I was going to say that people finally figured out that spending $100.00 per month on a phone was idiocy. Sorry, I know that will not happen.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:31 am

Quoting 1g (Reply 1):
A rumor I heard about the next iPhone (iPhone 7 presumably) is that it's getting rid of the headphone jack.

Maybe they should buy a company that makes wireless headsets? Oh, they already did that...

I haven't kept up on standards but when they first came out Bluetooth headsets were ok for voice but not for music.

In my case I use the headphone jack enough to make this an annoyance. I thought I read they'd make a lightening to headphone jack dongle to cover the cases where people really want headphone jacks but chances are they'll patent the bejesus out of it and then overcharge for the dongle, because Apple.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 4):
Am I the only one that does not understand the obsession of making smart phones thinner and thinner? It makes no sense at all. To avoid damaging the phone eveyone adds a protective casing or cover anyway, thus making the phone just as thick as yesteryear's Nokia 3310.

Everyone? Nope, not me. I have insurance on the phone just because replacing it for any reason is a big problem, so I don't worry about having a big ugly case on it.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
You can get a very competent smartphone for less than a third of the price of an iPhone so more and more people will wonder if they're worth it.

I think that will be an important factor going forward since 'feature velocity' is slowing down.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:36 am



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
That doesn't downplay the severity of the issues facing AAPL.

Their competition would kill for the kinds of "problems" Apple is facing.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
That doesn't downplay the severity of the issues facing AAPL. Companies like AAPL are valued on their ability to maintain growth: PV = CF/(r-g) where "g" is growth. When growth gets smaller, the value of the firm goes down in a hurry.

Apple is not primarily a growth stock, even though they have grown like crazy in the past years.

Shareholders don't have to wait for growth as much when they can cash in pretty decent dividends which Apple has been paying out for a while now. Well over 200 billion $ in liquid assets (minus a much lower amount of tactical debt) and regular, massive earnings every quarter are very, very substantial cushions for their overall valuation.

They are not – for instance – Amazon which is slowly burning the shareholders' money in the hope for eventual market domination where hope for the future is all they've got.

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 10):
Or it means they are putting all their eggs in one basket and they aren't performing in that sector the way they once did due to a bunch of quality competition.

90% of overall mobile profits say the exact opposite. Even in China the cheaper competition has a hard time while Apple keeps growing fast.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
You can get a very competent smartphone for less than a third of the price of an iPhone so more and more people will wonder if they're worth it.

Pretty much everybody is wondering (and everybody should!), but a substantial number will still come to the conclusion that the iPhone is actually worth its price to them.

Others will choose something else, and in either case it can still be the correct individual decision.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Yeah I went to their store and they have this beautiful 12" laptop... with of course no CD drive, no hard drive and not even USB ports. So yeah, it can't do anything.

An optical drive in an ultralight? Really? In 2016?
And no floppy drive either. The outrage!

It's for being carried easily and to be used with wireless connectivity. It has one multi-purpose USB port (for rarely needed wired peripherals and for the charger), but it also has an excellent trackpad which makes a mouse completely redundant (that would even be a step down).

If you can't see what it's good for, you just have very different needs (or think you do).

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 14):

I was going to say that people finally figured out that spending $100.00 per month on a phone was idiocy. Sorry, I know that will not happen.

If I remember correctly, I had paid €799 for my iPhone 4S within my provider contract (19% of that is german VAT), used it for three years and then decided to just give it to someone else instead of selling it, which I could have done. (By the way: Even the new owner still gets full update support to this day, over four years later.)

So that came out to €22 per month in effective cost of ownership. I fail to see the outrage in that.

My iPhone 6 cost €899 out of contract but it is likely that I can use that one even longer. Four years of use would mean just €18 per month.

So, what about it?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
In my case I use the headphone jack enough to make this an annoyance. I thought I read they'd make a lightening to headphone jack dongle to cover the cases where people really want headphone jacks but chances are they'll patent the bejesus out of it and then overcharge for the dongle, because Apple.

It's a rumour. Nothing more. And one which has been making the rounds for several years by now. There is zero actual evidence for it. Just for perspective.

By the way: Using the Lightning port for audio out has always worked, as it did before with the Dock connector.

[Edited 2016-01-26 18:48:05]
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:37 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
Slowest Sales GROWTH! You forgot the word growth...

Right, but also:

Quote:

Apple has reported the slowest growth in iPhone sales since the product's 2007 launch and warned sales will fall for the first time later this year.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:02 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

Apple iPhone sales lower than expected

But the services and other products growth was high.

The iphone still dominates, and the Ipad line was the real beakdown in earnings.

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 10):
Or it means they are putting all their eggs in one basket and they aren't performing in that sector the way they once did due to a bunch of quality competition.

I don't think it is necessarily the competition. Apple makes a quality product. I still use a Iphone 5, and I have friends that still have the 3GS. The sales growth is bound to slow a bit, but I also think that the world economic softness affected sales as well. Even the Android makers have suffered.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:13 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
since 'feature velocity' is slowing down.

then

Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
If I remember correctly, I had paid €799 for my iPhone 4S within my provider contract (19% of that is german VAT), used it for three years and then decided to just give it to someone else instead of selling it, which I could have done. (By the way: Even the new owner still gets full update support to this day, over four years later.)

Apple's only real solution further down the road will be to license use. When your device gets two to three years old you will have to pay for another years license or upgrade your model 9x for a model 10.

Okie
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 19):
Apple's only real solution further down the road will be to license use. When your device gets two to three years old you will have to pay for another years license or upgrade your model 9x for a model 10.

Nope. When I buy a device, the decision about how long I'll use it is mine. No deal otherwise.

The total market is still growing (albeit at a slowing pace), and Apple still has only a minority share of it. But even if they completely stagnated from here on out, they'd still remain massively profitable.

There are upper limits on the money potential customers are overall ready (and able!) to spend, so unlimited growth would not be possible anyway.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:41 am

Apple's last bullet to increase sales was to increase the size, something they could have done much earlier. But this way they can squeeze out millions in extra sales by delaying the technological progression. It was a shrewd strategy, and those trapped in the Apple ecosystem paid up for it.

The basic problem for all cell phone companies is that new models are only slightly better, or even worse, then the last. The need to upgrade as dried up. The glory days are over for them. Now comes the mature stage of the cycle.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:41 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

Apple just announced that they have had the slowest growth in iPhone sales since the launch in 2007.

From the OP article:

"The US tech giant sold 74.8 million iPhones in its fiscal first quarter, compared with 74.5 million a year ago."

That's still 74 million phones, guys! This is hardly a failure, nor is it declining. Growth is not endless - it would be impossible to sell 100, 200 or more million phones per year - there are simply not enough people to buy them.

It's called market saturation, and EVERY high growth business eventually reaches it. And if you think about it, in less than 10 years, Apple has gone from manufacturing no phones at all to the number one phone brand in the world. When you are on top of Mt Everest, there simply is nowhere else to go.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:22 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 4):
Am I the only one that does not understand the obsession of making smart phones thinner and thinner? It makes no sense at all.

Yes, I think the iPhone's are just a bit too absurdly thin. But I think it's Apple's goal of producing a 'premium' phone for the lowest cost possible, an overall a thinner phone and less components does mean a cheaper cost, which means a higher profit margin. They force themselves to put in a 1800mAh battery into the iPhone to maintain the thinness and then put a lot of limitations of the software on the phone just so that phone's battery life can last a day.

Personally, I think most people would prefer to have slightly thicker phones if it meant more functionality out of them, such as battery life of two days!

But as I said companies like Apple have the incentive of keeping costs low as possible to bring in the greatest profits. I

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
I am actually the opposite I dont like the 6 or 6S at all.

Well yours is just a personal preference of not liking a larger phone which is perfectly legitimate. Unfortunately Apple has pulled out of the sub 4.5 inch smartphone department and are now focusing on larger phones. I personally don't think they will return to the size of the iPhone 5 anymore, I think they will stick to the 4.7 inch and 5.5 inch size iPhones for the foreseeable future.

And really most of the smartphone manufacturers don't even seem to produce high quality phones smaller than 4.5 inches anymore! For example, Sony's Xperia Z5 COMPACT phone has a screen size of 4.6 inches, just a hair under the iPhone 6. Over the past five years or so the norm for smartphone screen sizes has only grown.

But I will recommend that you try phones larger than 4.5 inches if you haven't already. Some people might like the smaller screens, but in my experience once people experience their smartphones on a larger screen they can't go back to a smaller screen.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
While every other model looks similar to the previous one there are significant changes internally, like moving from an A7 to an A8 processor.

Which is why I think the iPhone 6S is the best phone from Apple  
The internal improvements of the 6S are leaps and bounds ahead of the improvements done on the previous models.

The A9 Chip is truly remarkable upgrade over the A8 chip.

And they also added a NAND controller to the 6S's internal storage, giving the 6S roughly twice the read/write speeds of its closest competitors. No other phone has done this before and in fact the internal memory department is an area in which a lot of Android manufacturers skimp out on.

The improvements of the A9 chip and the inclusion of a NAND controller are definitely reflected by the speed of the software. But I don't think most people care about how apps run faster and open faster (Nor do I think most people will even notice) hence why I think there was an overall dissatisfaction with the 'lack of changes' the iPhone 6S brought. The previous iPhone models at least had easy to point out changes; the iPhone 6 was a totally new design, the 5S had a fingerprint scanner, the 5 was an new design as well et cetera.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:15 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
That's still 74 million phones, guys! This is hardly a failure, nor is it declining. Growth is not endless - it would be impossible to sell 100, 200 or more million phones per year - there are simply not enough people to buy them.

Traders don't necessarily care. The stock will take a hit.
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:54 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 23):
Yes, I think the iPhone's are just a bit too absurdly thin. But I think it's Apple's goal of producing a 'premium' phone for the lowest cost possible, an overall a thinner phone and less components does mean a cheaper cost, which means a higher profit margin.

Unlikely.A thinner phone can need more material than a thicker one to still get the necessary stability. And aluminium really isn't very expensive. Thinner devices also tend to need higher-grade components all around.

Quoting 1g (Reply 23):
Unfortunately Apple has pulled out of the sub 4.5 inch smartphone department and are now focusing on larger phones.

No, they haven't. They still have a 4" model, and there are the first unauthorized photos of a new 4" model that's designed like an iPhone 6 and which would most likely get upgraded components.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:07 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 24):
Traders don't necessarily care. The stock will take a hit.

Yes, but Investors will buy the dips. The company still pays a hefty dividend. Has a huge R&D budget, and will keep incrementally entering different businesses.

The true issue here as the OP as posted is that the Smartphone industry has reached a mature life scale point. Apple at least has a healthy profit margin. Other companies are losing money on their smartphones, and if the industry has reached maturity. Many of them may lose their appetite for continued losses on their phone products. I see this as a huge problem on the Android/Windows side of the market where there are far too many manufacturers.
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:54 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
I think that will be an important factor going forward since 'feature velocity' is slowing down.

Feature velocity, interesting word. Thanks. I noticed that overall hardware improvement "velocity" is also way down. I have a Macbook Pro that is almost as fast as a new one. It is 5.5 years old. My family members are running iMacs from 2008 that run the current software just fine. That means processor speed was excellent back then, and Apple has continued to make efficient software. The need for hardware leaps (to accommodate full motion video etc) has diminished, and may go away entirely soon. There is only a certain amount of graphics complexity that can be shown on a computer screen.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
It's for being carried easily and to be used with wireless connectivity. It has one multi-purpose USB port (for rarely needed wired peripherals and for the charger), but it also has an excellent trackpad which makes a mouse completely redundant (that would even be a step down).

If you can't see what it's good for, you just have very different needs (or think you do).

That's fine. Here's where I am. My primary PCs are laptops. So yes, I need the ports. Now, I could buy the 12" as an additional netbook. I have an Acer netbook with Windows 10 that I like very much. The Apple product is clearly superior but it costs $1300 vs $250 for my Acer.

One possibility is a return to the Powerbook Duo (you probably remember that) which was an ultralight notebook that slid into a dock. The processing power of mobile devices will soon eclipse any reasonable PC need. Then, we'll just need to have a mobile device (such as the 12") and a docking station. The end of the PC. I think it will happen within 6-7 years.

In Apple terms (since I just visited their store while stuck at a shopping mall over the weekend), their iPad Pro and Macbook 12" are really both mobile devices with mobile processors. They are not that different. The OSs are related. They will blur together.

One of my friends (an attorney) already runs his office fully from an Android phablet in his pocket. He can modify complex documents securely on the server, etc. The most he would need is a larger monitor and input devices to interface with the phone. His need for a PC is over.

[Edited 2016-01-27 09:03:57]
 
wingman
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:10 pm

I just read the summary of Cook's comments and some analyst opinions of them and there is plenty of silver lining here, just not with traders or stock holders or anyone else that is betting on the explosive growth to continue ad infinitum. 60%+ of sales are outside the US and with most major markets in decline or stagnation (Brazil, China, Japan, Europe etc.) you simply cannot expect the percentage growth to continue unabated. But the margins are still extraordinary and they leave Apple at the beginning of a new downturn with some $200B to weather the storm. And they have over 1BB connected devises (active!) that they can pump service revenue through.

The stock price at $125 was way too high for reality and clearly Apple was unable to produce a fantasy quarter. But I agree with the posters above, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, Microsoft, Blackberry...they would kill to be in Apple's situation.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
One possibility is a return to the Powerbook Duo (you probably remember that) which was an ultralight notebook that slid into a dock.

No need for that any more. Today you'd use a Retina MacBook connected via USB-C to a USB dock or a MacBook Air connected via Thunderbolt to a Thunderbolt dock (it is pretty much certain that all future Macs will switch to USB-C and provide Thunderbolt 3 through that, and even the ultrathin Retina MacBook will likely get Thunderbolt 3 that way). A thin cable is all you need, no mechanical plug-in dock required any more.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
In Apple terms (since I just visited their store while stuck at a shopping mall over the weekend), their iPad Pro and Macbook 12" are really both mobile devices with mobile processors. They are not that different. The OSs are related. They will blur together.

Nope. Apple has explicitly ruled that out, and the pretty bad experience with Windows 8+10 is just another reminder why they won't follow into that dead end – and why they shouldn't.

Some aspects of the pure hardware construction (unibody cases and how the motherboards and batteries are designed and built in together, for instance) have been similar for years, but horizontal touch screens and vertical screens connected to a keyboard and a trackpad have fundamentally different ways to interact, and forcing those together just doesn't work well.

I know it from my own use of my iMac and my iPad – they fill very different requirements, even where they overlap functionally.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
One of my friends (an attorney) already runs his office fully from an Android phablet in his pocket. He can modify complex documents securely on the server, etc. The most he would need is a larger monitor and input devices to interface with the phone. His need for a PC is over.


Yeah, that's now a real option.
 
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:21 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Yeah I went to their store and they have this beautiful 12" laptop... with of course no CD drive, no hard drive and not even USB ports. So yeah, it can't do anything.

And after Apple has set the trend, and the other guys follow suit, then it'll (the other machines) will be awesome, right? And it does have a USB port. Why put a hard drive in it when onboard flash storage is better?
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:31 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 28):
Motorola, Samsung, HTC, Microsoft, Blackberry...they would kill to be in Apple's situation.

That's what's called "burying the lead story". Those firms indeed aren't in Apple's position and never have been, so it's not news. What is news is that Apple itself is projecting its first sales fall in smartphones ever.
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1g
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:54 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Unlikely.

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but Apple does try to cut cost in other areas while they try to add newer more expensive components.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
No, they haven't. They still have a 4" model, and there are the first unauthorized photos of a new 4" model that's designed like an iPhone 6 and which would most likely get upgraded components.

Yes they still sell the iPhone 5S but Apple sells all of their phones close to three years. They will probably drop selling the iPhone 5S when the new iPhone is released.

Right now the details about the new iPhone's are all rumours, but it will be interesting to see Apple release three different phones ("Mini", Base, Plus)
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 32):
Maybe my reasoning is flawed but Apple does try to cut cost in other areas while they try to add newer more expensive components.

Of course. But it's very obviously not what drives Jony Ive's primary design decisions.

The unspoken truth may be that while some people loudly clamor for more battery life, in reality it may just be a concern for a smallish minority. My iPhone 6 would easily last 2-3 days in normal use if I didn't charge it every night anyway.

So making the battery smaller and thinner in conjunction with ever more efficient chips for largely the same battery life as all previous models while still offering the 6(S) Plus with actually longer battery life may simply be the sweet spot they intend to stay on.

Meaning that the iPhone gets thinner because it simply doesn't need a bigger battery so why waste resources and cause pollution with toxic battery chemicals more than really needed?

For the minority of people who actually need it there are add-on battery packs and car chargers. But for most people it would most likely not make a lick of difference in real life if the battery lasted twice as long.

That iPhone battery life has been so consistent across all generations lets me believe Apple simply thinks they already have what most people actually need. And with the Plus and extra battery packs all bases are covered anyway.

Quoting 1g (Reply 32):
Yes they still sell the iPhone 5S but Apple sells all of their phones close to three years. They will probably drop selling the iPhone 5S when the new iPhone is released.

Quite certainly.

Quoting 1g (Reply 32):
Right now the details about the new iPhone's are all rumours, but it will be interesting to see Apple release three different phones ("Mini", Base, Plus)

No, it's more than just a rumour by now. There does exist a photo which would be rather difficult to fake. Not entirely impossible, but very, very difficult:
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/24/leaked-photo-4-inch-iphone-6/

It looks a lot as if a 4" iPhone will still be there when the 5S leaves the lineup, so lamentations might be premature.
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:13 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 32):
Right now the details about the new iPhone's are all rumours, but it will be interesting to see Apple release three different phones ("Mini", Base, Plus)

Its looking very much like there will be a 5Se which as Klaus advised will be the smaller size but upgraded. I know quite a few who like me did not upgrade and should the so called 5Se be true will be upgrading right away. So there is still demand for the smaller handset otherwise Apple would not even bother to design it.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:20 am

Belmont and Targus are already making docking stations that turn your phone into a PC. The problem with Apple is that the phones aren't mouse compatible - unlike android and Windows phone.

I've just got a windows phone for work - and I'm mightily impressed.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 35):
Belmont and Targus are already making docking stations that turn your phone into a PC. The problem with Apple is that the phones aren't mouse compatible - unlike android and Windows phone.

I've literally never, ever missed a mouse with my iPhone (or iPad)...!

It's cute to have theoretical options, but is it actually practical in every case? And practical enough to outweigh the compromises you'd have to make?
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:22 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36):
I've literally never, ever missed a mouse with my iPhone (or iPad)...!

Me too the thought of using a mouse never crossed my mind for an iPhone/iPad. I guess if people are really wanting that then they are better with the more traditional products. I hate Windows and never looked back from dumping it even the new versions which I have used at work.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:07 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
Me too the thought of using a mouse never crossed my mind for an iPhone/iPad

But you use a mouse for your PC? I'm talking about turning your phone into a PC, not a mouse phone.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Flighty
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
I hate Windows and never looked back from dumping it even the new versions which I have used at work.

Have you tried Windows 10? It is really nice. Haven't heard a single complaint from anyone. Most people really like it.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 38):
But you use a mouse for your PC? I'm talking about turning your phone into a PC, not a mouse phone.

I think we will be able to turn our PCs into phones very soon. Accepting mouse input would be pretty easy.   
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:53 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
Their competition would kill for the kinds of "problems" Apple is facing.

I don't compete with Apple, but no, I wouldn't "kill" for their problems. Their growth has always been predicated on bringing new products to market as their old products cool-off.

Their notebooks were instrumental to their early 2000s growth, and now there's talk about whether they should even make personal computers.

The iPod was instrumental to their mid-2000s growth and now those have largely fallen by the wayside.

The iPhone was instrumental to their late-2000s growth and now its sales growth are slowing down.

The iPad was instrumental to their early-2010s growth and it has cooled off.

The iWatch isn't really taking the world by storm.

Granted, that is no small track record they've accumulated over the last 15 years. But, all good things can come to an end. Apple in particular was relying heavily on the creative clout of Jobs + Ive. If they cannot continue that track record of creative successes, which is possible, then they are in trouble. So again, I wouldn't "kill" for the responsibility to come up with the next iPhone!

I have tremendous respect for AAPL, I've owned AAPL stock in the past, I own AAPL products right now. But, it's foolish to count on past success as an indicator for future success.
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OA260
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:02 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 39):
Have you tried Windows 10? It is really nice. Haven't heard a single complaint from anyone. Most people really like it.

Yes work is Windows PC and home is iMac. Neighbour has Windows 10 and called me a few times to go over and sort it out and explain various things as she hates it. Just a personal preference.

Also I still cant see me ever wanting to use a mouse on any tablet / iPad / Smartphone as I would never use it personally. I use my iPhone/iPad when Im out and about and travelling and dont need something else to carry and something I would not need. Home PC/iMac is a different matter same as I would not take my printer/scanner with me.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 39):
Have you tried Windows 10? It is really nice. Haven't heard a single complaint from anyone. Most people really like it.

True story - a few months ago, my old Windows 7 laptop died, it was a love hate relationship with that computer because the constant updates and babysitting required for Windows was a real pain.

So I was in a market for a new laptop, I ended up buying a Windows 8 machine with the free upgrade to 10. I took it home and battled with it for most of the night trying to get everything set up, installing Windows 10, antivirus, Photoshop, movie editor. The upgrade to Windows 10 has a hassle as is and Photoshop and the movie editor wouldn't work at all, so I packed it up the next morning and brought it back. I told the guy at the store I wanted to return my purchase and he looked at me and said "Let me guess, Windows 10, right?" I replied "Yup!" and he continued to tell me I was the third person that morning to have returned a laptop because of Windows.

So I ended up buying a MacBook Pro and haven't looked back since. I'm absolutely finished with Windows and from the salesperson at the store said, I'm not the only one.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
slider
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
I have tremendous respect for AAPL, I've owned AAPL stock in the past, I own AAPL products right now. But, it's foolish to count on past success as an indicator for future success.

This is a good point--especially since the gap in the mobile phone and tablet market has closed noticeably. Competitors go after Apple by name in their ads, showing them up in features and such.

In every one of those product lines you mention, there isn't one of them that doesn't have healthy, vibrant competition. In many ways, that's a credit to Apple--they rose the bar that they now have to try to keep going over.

I've had few complaints with any Apple device I've owned, but I also don't worship at the altar like many do.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 43):
I've had few complaints with any Apple device I've owned, but I also don't worship at the altar like many do.

Same here. I started out with the iPhone 5s a year and a half ago, bought an iPad and now the MacBook Pro. They're not perfect, but for my needs, they're the best fit.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4764
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 42):
So I ended up buying a MacBook Pro and haven't looked back since. I'm absolutely finished with Windows and from the salesperson at the store said, I'm not the only one.

I was a longtime PC user, even built a few of my own. Slowly purchased Apple products starting with the iPod ten years ago, then the iPhone and iPad. I still resisted a switch to Mac for a long time but 3 years ago I got a MacBook Pro and have absolutely no regrets. I have zero interest in going back to Windows. I haven't had a headache since.

Quoting slider (Reply 43):
but I also don't worship at the altar like many do.

Yep, same here. I like the products but dont belong to the cult of Apple worship. Some have a hard time believing we exist.
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ikramerica
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 42):
So I ended up buying a MacBook Pro and haven't looked back since. I'm absolutely finished with Windows and from the salesperson at the store said, I'm not the only one.

Try upgrading to El Capitan rather than buying a machine with it preinstalled. My scanners stopped working. Only after wasting hours did I get some of the features to work again. But my flatbed large format scanner still fails to work. Other things are either very slow or use super high processing power. iTunes pegged out my quad i7 just to sync with my phone.

Not tried Windows 10 yet on my wife's laptop. Shall see one day if it's worse of a process...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10160
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:19 am

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 10):
Or it means they are putting all their eggs in one basket and they aren't performing in that sector the way they once did due to a bunch of quality competition

Apple has long invested significantly in R&D for years and, fortunately, Jonny Ive (and his team) was well protected for the future by Steve Jobs before he died. Apple has a lot of very good people in hardware, software, marketing, etc and their growth is pretty well protected.

Quoting Okie (Reply 19):
Apple's only real solution further down the road will be to license use.

Not a chance. Why should they give away the golden eggs and move the market to Cheap? Apple might not have the largest share of the market in terms of sales, but it blows the market away in terms of profitability. They have something like 94% of the smart phone market. Why throw away profits to be a cheap manufacturer?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
Many of them may lose their appetite for continued losses on their phone products.

That's true in many markets. The PC market is shrinking and Apple is thinly company delivering growth in PC sales on a continual basis.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
His need for a PC is over.

Really? I can see him making small changes to a PC generated doc that he has on his phone, but you're talking about smaller documents. I believe that heavy legal lifting needs a PC with big storage.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
it is pretty much certain that all future Macs will switch to USB-C

I'm not in love with USB-C when it comes to ditching the magnetic power charger. With grandkids and peripheral neuropathy I'v gotten the benefits of that adapter many times. USB-C is too delicate for me.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
For the minority of people who actually need it there are add-on battery packs and car chargers.

True. I have a car charger that goes into use anytime my grandson gets in the car.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
Their growth has always been predicated on bringing new products to market as their old products cool-off.

And their old products tend to continue generating sales. iPods still sell, even if the market has been mostly taken over by the iPhone. So the "newer" product eats up iPod sales, but the shift generates more profits. New iPhones will get more power and other features, but Apple will still receive revenues from older products.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
now there's talk about whether they should even make personal computers.

Who ever is talking is probably working for a PC company that is looking to get out of the shrinking PC business. The Mac market is still growing in terms of percentage of the market and they sold 5.3 million Macs. Considering the reality that the 5.3 million Mac market is a very profitable one there is obviously no need for Apple to stop making them. Actually, Intel is delivering a new processor soon so we can expected a new, upgraded Mac pretty soon.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
The iPod was instrumental to their mid-2000s growth and now those have largely fallen by the wayside.

It's still around, but the iPhone has really eaten into those sales. There should be no need to tell you which product generates the most profits.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
The iPhone was instrumental to their late-2000s growth and now its sales growth are slowing down.

You consider 74.8 million units in the First Quarter to be a call for concern? There may be a market saturation in the start phone market, but Apple is pulling the lion's share of the profits in this market,

Apple is also opening doors to growing sales designed to ]with their new leasing program where you can get a new phone every year if you want. It is actually appears to be designed to motivate annual upgrades.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
The iPad was instrumental to their early-2010s growth and it has cooled off.

The iPad is a product that people will keep for multiple years. My wife got hers when thee iPad 2 came out and sees no reason to upgrade. She's happy with what she has and each time she down loads a new game (generally for the grandkids) Apple continues to receive revenues from that old purchase.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
The iWatch isn't really taking the world by storm.

Ask the makers of fine watches (or even branded watches in the Apple Watch price range) and you'll find that their sales are down. The Apple Watch is going to grow slowly, but it will grow,

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 40):
But, it's foolish to count on past success as an indicator for future success.

But it is not foolish to look at successful people at Apple (like Jony Ive) and anticipate that he will still develop products that you really want to have.
 
slider
Posts: 7735
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 44):
Same here. I started out with the iPhone 5s a year and a half ago, bought an iPad and now the MacBook Pro. They're not perfect, but for my needs, they're the best fit.
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 45):
Yep, same here. I like the products but dont belong to the cult of Apple worship. Some have a hard time believing we exist.

Yeah, dealing with Apple zealots is always fun. I especially love that they think Apple is impervious from viruses, haha
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Apple Announces Slowest IPhones Sales Since 2007

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:17 pm

I think between the maturing market for cellphones in the First World markets and the slowdown of the Chinese economy, a sales slowdown of iPhone sales was expected anyway.

Many will watch with great interest what Apple does with the iPhone 7 due in September 2016. I expect the very final design "frozen" by the end of February 2016, and the phone itself may not look much different than the current iPhone 6s/6s+, but expect the disappearance of the physical Home button on the front of the phone, more internal RAM (probably as much as 4 GB), and possibly a new two-lens rear camera for a major leap forward in picture quality. I believe Apple wanted to remove the 3.5 mm headphone connector, but now with the slowing economy, they may drop that idea out of fear removing the 3.5 mm headphone connector could seriously affect sales.

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