af773atmsp
Topic Author
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:11 am

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...tting-axed-under-new-fca-plan.html

I found this rather surprising since these models are only a few years old. I remember when the new Dart came out in 2012 and was really excited to see it in person. I was lucky enough to drive two Darts at the dealership I worked at, one manual and one automatic transmission. Shame to see them go.

I believe Dodge is also finally dropping the Caravan next year, while the Town & County gets a refresh with a hybrid option.

Any more changes potentially in store for Fiat/Chrysler?
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:50 am

Quoting af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I found this rather surprising since these models are only a few years old.

...don't kid yourself. Those things sucked. The Dart never measured up to the competition and the 200 was a Sebring, the poster child for automotive mediocrity.

Quoting af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I was lucky enough to drive two Darts

"Lucky" is an interesting word for it.

Quoting af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I believe Dodge is also finally dropping the Caravan next year, while the Town & County gets a refresh with a hybrid option.

I think they're getting rid of the Town & Country name. In my opinion dropping one of the oldest nameplates in the industry is a huge mistake. The only older one I can think of off the top of my head is the Suburban.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
User avatar
KLASM83
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:08 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:20 am

I've driven a fare share of Dodges, and I'm surprised that they pulled the plug on the Dart/200 so quickly. Especially when you look at how long they kept the much more terrible Avenger/200 going, I was thinking that this was a step up for them (yes, that was a backhanded complement).

My only questions are if they keep the 300 in this shuffle, and if prices bounce up, will this bite them in the butt?

Oh, Chrysler, you never cease to amaze me with your complete and utter....average-ness.
"The goodness of the true pun is in the direct ratio of its intolerability" -Edgar Allan Poe

Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:00 pm

Fiat has justed started rolling the Fiat Tipo (aka Fiat Aegea) into the showrooms. They might intend this to be the DD replacement?
Attamottamotta!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10151
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:14 pm

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 3):

The Fiat Tipo is essentially the Dart with Fiat styling cues instead of Dodge.

Note that FCA are not immediately dropping the Dart/200. They just basically said they are done investing in them. So the cars will stick around withering on the vine until it no longer makes financial sense to produce them.

The big issue is outside of Jeep and Ram FCA is a mess (worldwide, not just in the US). Those two brands are essentially keeping the company, which is heavily in debt, afloat right now hence why FCA is doubling down on them.

[Edited 2016-01-30 05:17:02]
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:37 pm

These were a decent car but FCA does not have the ability to earn a reputation for quality cars over the next 16-20 years as their competitors have. Once a company builds a solid car for 16-20 years or so, you can have confidence in the life cycle and their ability to innovate. FCA realizes they are too late and it is no longer feasible to salvage their car business. It may be most effective to keep building trucks y till they are obsolete, then dissolve the corporation (meaning sell Jeep and Ram) which is more or less what Marchionne has indicated he wants to do ASAP.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 4):
Note that FCA are not immediately dropping the Dart/200. They just basically said they are done investing in them. So the cars will stick around withering on the vine until it no longer makes financial sense to produce them.

Not so sure about that. They were already planning to move Dart/200 production to Mexico to free up the Sterling Heights factory for more trucks. It would make more sense to make that happen quickly and if they are being "phased out", why bother with Mexico?.

So Chrysler is basically bowing out of the sedan business. The Charger and Challenger don't even get invited to the magazine comparos because they couldn't evem match last-generation Chevy's and Fords. Replacements are said to be 2 years away. They won't happen imo.

Marchionne is desperate. He does not understand the US market and made a number of blunders. He has funneled too much money into Alfa, a niche product, while cutting R&D for future models. They have little in the pipeline and virtually nothing to meet emission standards, forcing them to buy green credits. Consumer ratings rank right down there with VW's, The future is bleak for FCA.

I see it as a maneuver to open up new doors for his merger needs. Without a merger, they will die. With no cars to overlap, Jeep and Ram would fit nicely with more OEMS who might like to have full lineups. Maybe Chinese or Korean.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:08 pm

I'm not sure. I think FCA is planning a new small sedan based on the Fiat Aegea/Tipo model that will use more powerful engines in the 160 to 200 bhp (SAE net) range, likely to be assembled in Mexico. I believe the model name will be Chrysler 100.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:07 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 6):
The Charger and Challenger don't even get invited to the magazine comparos because they couldn't evem match last-generation Chevy's and Fords.

Yes, they definitely couldn't match Chevy's and Ford's latest RWD/real AWD offernings. Oh wait...
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Ken777
Posts: 9999
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:17 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
In my opinion dropping one of the oldest nameplates in the industry is a huge mistake.

And that is one of the problems with the industry. Nameplates that had a solid reputation (even if some years of production didn't) and the US automakers panic when competition comes in. Look at the Caddy - they used to have some decent nameplates, but have moved to letters only - like the DTS. I can't even begin to figure out what cars are what in the line up these days and wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a WTF SUV before too long.

In terms of what FCA is going, I believe it is a dumb move. The smaller cars are best when thy bring in new, young buyers into a brand. Deliver at that level, like the Corolla did for us, and the customers buy their cars when they move up-market. When new entries, like Hyundai, knows this approach it's pretty sad that Fiat/Chrysler doesn't remember it.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):

I'm not sure. I think FCA is planning a new small sedan based on the Fiat Aegea/Tipo model that will use more powerful engines in the 160 to 200 bhp (SAE net) range, likely to be assembled in Mexico. I believe the model name will be Chrysler 100.

That's a good point, it should have been mentioned in the latest, greatest 5 year plan but all I see is speculation about another rather unexciting car using the same transmission everybody appears to hate. Already delayed, I'd bet it morphs into a CUV. Of course, Marchionne changes plans every ten months, so who knows. It's like deja vu all over again, when fuel prices go low, abandon everything for large vehicles.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 10):
That's a good point, it should have been mentioned in the latest, greatest 5 year plan but all I see is speculation about another rather unexciting car using the same transmission everybody appears to hate

Well, a small car being unexciting is hardly a surprise. But how is it different from any other car in the same class? And what's wrong with the 9AT? I tried it in the 200 and it suck just as much as any automatic transmission.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:59 pm

A lot of Dodge trucks are ending up being used for industrial conversions, work boxes, Ambulance bodies ect.

That is because Ford has had so many issues with it's Navstar diesel engine in that application that companies are starting to look at Dodge as a replacement. Of couse that credit goes to Cummins and their diesel motor and to Ford and their engine issues.

Frankly I think it is a downgrade and you can count me in as one that will never buy a Dodge since they took bailout money.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12520
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:55 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 4):
The big issue is outside of Jeep and Ram FCA is a mess (worldwide, not just in the US). Those two brands are essentially keeping the company, which is heavily in debt, afloat right now hence why FCA is doubling down on them.

If Fiat is a mess in Europe (I don't know) it's certainly not saved by Jeeps or Rams, Jeeps are a rarity and Rams aren't even sold here.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2387
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:58 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a WTF SUV before too long.

Well, Mercedes Benz is coming out with the GLC. I still remember the Mazda GLC "Great Little Car." And the Rambler Rogue.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10151
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:18 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
That is because Ford has had so many issues with it's Navstar diesel engine in that application that companies are starting to look at Dodge as a replacement. Of couse that credit goes to Cummins and their diesel motor and to Ford and their engine issues.

Ford makes their diesels in house now, they dropped Navistar about 5 or so years ago.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
If Fiat is a mess in Europe (I don't know) it's certainly not saved by Jeeps or Rams, Jeeps are a rarity and Rams aren't even sold here.

In an ironic twist, after Fiat rescued Chrysler it is FCA's US business that is propping up the company. That said the Jeep Renegade has done well in Europe.

Nobody's European operations are doing spectacularly well.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:37 pm

Having recently attending the Philadelphia Auto Show; a 2016 Dart, 200 & Grand Caravan are/were on display.

Quoting af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I believe Dodge is also finally dropping the Caravan next year, while the Town & County gets a refresh with a hybrid option.

Actually Chrysler is replacing their Town & Country minivan with a completely new model for 2017 (such was also on display) called the Pacifica (a name last worn by a large CUV circa 2004-2008).

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
the 200 was a Sebring, the poster child for automotive mediocrity.

While true for the previous generation (2014 and earlier); the current 200's a completely different car from its predecessors.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
I think they're getting rid of the Town & Country name. In my opinion dropping one of the oldest nameplates in the industry is a huge mistake. The only older one I can think of off the top of my head is the Suburban.

IMHO, They should've kept the Dodge for the simple reason that its history goes back further (by 2 years) than the Chrysler minivan.

It's worth noting that prior to that nameplate being placed on the minivan; it was used as a trim level (like Ford's Squire) on other vehicles (usually wagons & convertibles w/the simulated woodgrain).

Quoting polot (Reply 4):
Note that FCA are not immediately dropping the Dart/200. They just basically said they are done investing in them. So the cars will stick around withering on the vine until it no longer makes financial sense to produce them.

   That seems to be the case.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 6):
So Chrysler is basically bowing out of the sedan business.

More like FCA is ultimately trying to push/phase out both the Chrysler and Dodge brands altogether (the Dodge truck division being renamed Ram a few years ago was no accident).

Not unlike when Chrysler acquired AMC and dropped or phased out all its AMC & Renault-branded/designed vehicles but kept (most of) the Jeep branded vehicles circa 1987; nor Boeing's grabbing of McDonnell-Douglas for its military aircraft but phasing out the MDD commercial planes (including the then-new MD-95/717).

The main difference in this case being is that many of the Dodges & Chryslers are actually selling in respectable numbers.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
A lot of Dodge trucks are ending up being used for industrial conversions, work boxes, Ambulance bodies etc

See above, the Dodge trucks were rebranded (as Rams) several years ago.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
In terms of what FCA is going, I believe it is a dumb move.

Agree 100%, but it's becoming painfully apparent when Fiat bought Chrysler a few years ago; they were mainly interested in the Jeeps and the Ram trucks only and nothing else.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26025
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:33 am

FCA has simply said they will no longer work with Dart and 200 in-house. The cars will likely continue, with their development out-sourced. Could be an opportunity for, maybe, Peugeot to come to the U.S. market.
a.
 
UA444
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:37 am

They're junk anyway. The 200 9speed transmission is horrible in reliability and function and the Dart isn't competitive.

Hedging their bets on trucks and SUVs is just showing that they're so out of touch...still. But hey I'm sure they'll ask Uncle Sam for another bailout.
 
af773atmsp
Topic Author
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:25 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
Actually Chrysler is replacing their Town & Country minivan with a completely new model for 2017 (such was also on display) called the Pacifica (a name last worn by a large CUV circa 2004-2008).

Ah yes thats right! I quite like the look of the Pacifica and my family is a big fan of Chrysler minivans so maybe this one will be in our fleet someday. Just wish they either kept the name Town & Country or Caravan because of the heritage.

Is Fiat bringing any more of their cars to the U.S. market besides the 500? Not including cars made by Fiat but under a different badge such as the Jeep Renegade.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12624
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:52 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 15):
That said the Jeep Renegade has done well in Europe.

Which part of Europe has it done well in, I've only seen one, that was in England in December.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26025
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:37 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
Which part of Europe has it done well in, I've only seen one, that was in England in December.

Every part of Europe. Not exactly sure how you seeing one in England disqualifies that fact. Italy is naturally it's best market, where its one of the best selling nameplates. In the UK, Jeep brand sales are up over 200% thanks to the Renegade.

[Edited 2016-02-02 01:41:06]
a.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12624
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:11 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):
Every part of Europe. Not exactly sure how you seeing one in England disqualifies that fact. Italy is naturally it's best market, where its one of the best selling nameplates.

In the last couple of months I've been in Scotland, England, Denmark, Sweden, Estonia, Germany and only seen 1, I haven't been to Italy in a long time, last time I was there the Fiat Freemont was everywhere, they appear to been pretty popular in Italy but I've never seen one anwhere else in Europe.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):
In the UK, Jeep brand sales are up over 200% thanks to the Renegade.

Which is probably why I saw one in Leighton Buzzard.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3518
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:07 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):
In the UK, Jeep brand sales are up over 200% thanks to the Renegade.

In Spain it was over 300% but even with the success of the renegade (accounts now for something like 2/3 of their sales), they're still a niche brand. Last time I checked they were 20-something in the sales charts by nameplate, along with the likes of Smart, Lexus, Mitsubishi, etc.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10151
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:03 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):
Every part of Europe. Not exactly sure how you seeing one in England disqualifies that fact. Italy is naturally it's best market, where its one of the best selling nameplates. In the UK, Jeep brand sales are up over 200% thanks to the Renegade.
Quoting JJJ (Reply 23):
In Spain it was over 300% but even with the success of the renegade (accounts now for something like 2/3 of their sales), they're still a niche brand. Last time I checked they were 20-something in the sales charts by nameplate, along with the likes of Smart, Lexus, Mitsubishi, etc.

  
All I said is the Jeep Renegade is doing well in Europe, which obviously it is. I never said it was taking the continent by storm and threatening the Focus or Golf for sales leader.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:17 pm

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 19):
Is Fiat bringing any more of their cars to the U.S. market besides the 500?

They're reviving their 124 Spider Roadster. A prototype was on display at the Philly Auto Show.
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/spider/
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10151
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
They're reviving their 124 Spider Roadster. A prototype was on display at the Philly Auto Show.

Which, to be fair, is not an existing Fiat product but rather a new rebadged Miata. I don't believe Fiat as any current plans to bring some of their existing products such as the Panda or Punto across the pond other than the ones they already have.

Bringing the Tipo/Aegea as the Chrysler 100 may not happen with fuel prices remaining low and how soft Dart sales have been.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26025
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:07 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 23):
In Spain it was over 300% but even with the success of the renegade (accounts now for something like 2/3 of their sales), they're still a niche brand. Last time I checked they were 20-something in the sales charts by nameplate, along with the likes of Smart, Lexus, Mitsubishi, etc.

Jeep sold 88,000 vehicles in Europe in 2015 and is the continent's fastest growing brand. For a brand that pretty much focuses on a single niche, that's damn impressive, and it's quickly catching up and looking to outsell Honda next year.
a.
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:55 am

I wonder which other car will filter down to the rental car fleets once the 200s are defunct. It seemed like 200s were 50% of rental car fleets the last two years.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:27 am

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 28):
It seemed like 200s were 50% of rental car fleets the last two years.

Locally where I am, the Dart is popular because Dodge/Chrysler offers high interest loans to those who can't qualify for more traditional loans. As well, Dodge/Chrysler always offers a cheque for $10,000 if you finance one of their products, which of course is added on to your bill plus interest.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:52 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
As well, Dodge/Chrysler always offers a cheque for $10,000 if you finance one of their products, which of course is added on to your bill plus interest.

So let me get this straight. When the person defaults on the loan, Chrysler not only has to repossess a used Chrysler product (worth near zero), but has also lost $10,000 cash in addition.

That's really not a great business plan.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:12 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
So let me get this straight. When the person defaults on the loan, Chrysler not only has to repossess a used Chrysler product (worth near zero), but has also lost $10,000 cash in addition.

Yuppers. By the time is all said and done, you owe almost $30 000 for a $14 000 car.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
That's really not a great business plan.

How else are they going to get them into a Dodge/Chrysler?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:23 am

Sorry, my bad - its not $10 000 - its $12 500  

I hope this link works, its an e-edition for our local paper ...

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/eeditions/?iid=i20140117070920244

... second page. A $23 000 Jeep ends up costing you $48 000 at $250 biweekly for 96 months at 4.99%
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
UA444
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:24 am

If it weren't for the US government and rental car companies, Chrysler would've died decades ago.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:18 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
While true for the previous generation (2014 and earlier); the current 200's a completely different car from its predecessors.

New junk is still junk.

It looks like crap. It drives like crap. It's a Sebring.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
It's worth noting that prior to that nameplate being placed on the minivan; it was used as a trim level (like Ford's Squire) on other vehicles (usually wagons & convertibles w/the simulated woodgrain).

It was and without looking it up I think it's the second oldest nameplate after the Suburban.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
They're reviving their 124 Spider Roadster.

I'll admit that I signed up for the email list on the 124, but I suspect it will probably still be disappointing overall in terms of power.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):
It was and without looking it up I think it's the second oldest nameplate after the Suburban.

Would that not be the Golf or Corolla?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 35):
Would that not be the Golf or Corolla?

The Suburban was the Suburban since before either Volkswagen or Toyota existed. Town & Country has been used since 1941 and continuously since 1946.

After those, going off the top of my head, would be the Corvette (1953), 911 (1963) and Mustang (1964). Beetle may count depending on how much you hate the New Beetle. There may be others I'm not thinking of.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:55 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):

The Suburban was the Suburban since before either Volkswagen or Toyota existed. Town & Country has been used since 1941 and continuously since 1946.

After those, going off the top of my head, would be the Corvette (1953), 911 (1963) and Mustang (1964). Beetle may count depending on how much you hate the New Beetle. There may be others I'm not thinking of.

I didn't realize that the Town and Country was used that long - interesting.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:01 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 37):
I didn't realize that the Town and Country was used that long - interesting.

Some of them were basically wagon trim levels but they've used the nameplate for decades. Some of the mid to late 1940s woody Town & Country models sell for well into six figures.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:23 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):
It looks like crap. It drives like crap. It's a Sebring.

Look is a subjective thing and IMO it does look like any current car. And as far as driving is concerned, did you ever drive one? I did, and I can assure you: it does exactly what it is supposed to do. Get you from point A to point B on wide highways with severely underposted speed limits. Just as any other car in it's class.

Honestly, I just don't understand the hatred against Chrysler. What other manufacturers are producing is no better by any means, yet everything is OK. But if Chrysler would come up with the God of All Cars, for some it wold be still crap. Why is it?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:08 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 39):
What other manufacturers are producing is no better by any means,

The only Chrysler I would ever consider purchasing is the Challenger. The Mrs. has a 2012 Wrangler and while its a fun vehicle to drive when the top is down and you're off roading, the interior design is typical Chrysler - poorly laid out, the steering wheel controls for the stereo are mind boggling. Plastic pieces keep falling of and the parking brake doesn't hold worth squat - but according to the dealership - that's "normal", the horn and wipers go off for no reason at all and the rear diff has already had to be replaced twice (recall).

My parents had an Aries when I grew up, which was the car I got my license with - that thing was awful.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:41 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 39):
Honestly, I just don't understand the hatred against Chrysler.

I don't hate Chrysler. The products are rather schizophrenic though. Sure the Dart and 200 are crap, but then there's the Charger Hellcat and the Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee too. And I'm all in favor of more Alfas on this side of the pond.

Honestly, I think that Dodge and Chrysler should dispense with their small cars and let Fiat be more mainstream and less of a lifestyle brand. Dodge could be similar to Pontiac except for having the Durango and I could see Chrysler and Alfa co-existing similarly to Buick and Cadillac at GM.

I like what Jeep has been doing, but I think the Grand Cherokee SRT versions should be more like the Ford Raptor and let an SRT Durango be the on road beast.

I love the fact that the Viper exists, but I want to see a new generation (that unfortunately seems unlikely) since I don't think the current one is particularly competitive against the likes of the Corvette Z06.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 40):
The only Chrysler I would ever consider purchasing is the Challenger.

Over the last couple months I've had rentals of a new Mustang and a 2015 Camaro SS. The Mustang was the better of the two but I'd try a new Camaro, but at no point during either experience did I wish for a car like it but bigger, heavier and with smaller windows. The Challenger looks cool, but that's about it considering you can get nearly the same powertrain (except a manual) in a Charger.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 40):
The Mrs. has a 2012 Wrangler and while its a fun vehicle to drive when the top is down and you're off roading, the interior design is typical Chrysler

I view the Wrangler as the offroad counterpart to the S2000. Sure you could find something that's more efficient, quieter, easier to drive, more comfortable, and easier to live with but why would you? The fun outweighs the pain the vast majority of the time.

The quality on your example sounds like a concern though.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:46 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
The Challenger looks cool,

And thats the only real reason I'd buy it   I've always been and always be a Mustang fanboy, so that would be my first pick regardless.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
I view the Wrangler as the offroad counterpart to the S2000. Sure you could find something that's more efficient, quieter, easier to drive, more comfortable, and easier to live with but why would you? The fun outweighs the pain the vast majority of the time.

The quality on your example sounds like a concern though.

I agree, the fun does outweigh the practicality of such a vehicle, and like you said, thats why you buy - thats why the Mrs. bought hers. It is fun. problems aside, ergonomically it just isn't designed well - the controls are simply over complicated and unnecessary. I don't see the point of having 12 steering wheel buttons just for the stereo that doesn't even have a proper display of for a vehicle without power locks. Its just down right confusing lol!
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:43 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Sure the Dart and 200 are crap

Don't know about the the dart, as I never drove it, but the 200 is far from being crap - rather a typical example it it's class.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
but then there's the Charger Hellcat and the Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee too.

You see, I personally have a problem with the Charger. I consider the lack of manual version mind boggling. That's despite the fact tthat Chrysler has a rather well working paddle shifter.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Honestly, I think that Dodge and Chrysler should dispense with their small cars and let Fiat be more mainstream and less of a lifestyle brand.

Fiat currently doesn't have anything to offer in C and D class that would worthvile.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
I like what Jeep has been doing, but I think the Grand Cherokee SRT versions should be more like the Ford Raptor and let an SRT Durango be the on road beast.

Agreed and there definitely should be a Durango Hellcat.
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 40):
The only Chrysler I would ever consider purchasing is the Challenger.

I was seriously thinking about it, but i just can't bring myself to purchase something so impractical as a full size coupe.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 40):
, the interior design is typical Chrysler - poorly laid out, the steering wheel controls for the stereo are mind boggling.

Well, that's rather a matter of opinion. Coincidentally, i spent a week driving an Unlimited Sahara couple of weeks ago. I have to admit that one has to learn how to board the thing, but that's the price one has to pay for owning a vehicle like this. And I had to get used to almost vertical windshield. Otherwise, I consider it comfortable and well laid out. As far as the controls are concerned, the blonde transmission in it behaved really badly, but if I'd be buying one, such thing wouldn't be there. My only real concern was the force necessary to shift the transfer case. The power window controls on the centre console need some time to get used to, but again, this is the price one has to pay for removable doors. No problems with the radio controls.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 40):
Plastic pieces keep falling of and the parking brake doesn't hold worth squat - but according to the dealership - that's "normal", the horn and wipers go off for no reason at all and the rear diff has already had to be replaced twice (recall).

The horn and wipers are the real concern here. Hopefully the electrical get's improved. As far as the parking brake problems are concerned, well, that's rather a service problem and I've seen something similar with other brands too.
As far as the diff is concerned, is it even made by Chrysler?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 43):
Well, that's rather a matter of opinion.

It is, and I'm of the opinion that a signal light stalk doesn't need 20 different control functions and a further dozen on top of and behind the steering wheel for a stereo that doesn't even have that many buttons on it itself  
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 43):
As far as the parking brake problems are concerned, well, that's rather a service problem

Its actually quite a common problem in the Wrangler.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 43):
As far as the diff is concerned, is it even made by Chrysler?

What does it matter? Its on a Chrysler product, put on Chrysler vehicle at a Chrysler plant by Chrysler employees, shipped to a Chrysler dealership and sold at that Chrysler dealership by sales people representing Chrysler.

[Edited 2016-02-06 13:26:13]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:56 am

The problem with the Dart and 200 is that they cost as much as anything else to develop, and they have the smallest margins. Add that to the fact that it is also the auto segment with the most competition, and you have vehicles with very low profit potentials, need huge rebates to sell and take up a lot of factor space that could be used to sell more of the more profitable models.

It makes much more economic sense to rebadge another maker's cars. Chrysler did that for years with Mitsu and they are likely the front runners to make FCA's compact cars of the future.
What the...?
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:33 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
Locally where I am, the Dart is popular because Dodge/Chrysler offers high interest loans to those who can't qualify for more traditional loans.

Subprime loans are what they are living on, which just gives them a ghetto image.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 39):
Honestly, I just don't understand the hatred against Chrysler. What other manufacturers are producing is no better by any means, yet everything is OK.

Chrysler is a perennial bottom feeder in reliability surveys. What do you mean by "no better"?
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:06 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 46):
Chrysler is a perennial bottom feeder in reliability surveys. What do you mean by "no better"?

Chrysler has been the fastest growing carmaker in the US since FIAT took over, and they are now back to number 3 ahead of Toyota. They are number one in Canada for the past few years. Jeep is the fastest growing brand in Europe.

By 'no better'...perhaps he should have said that Chrysler is doing significantly better than most other brands in N.America, including all of the import brands.

The only survey that means anything is sales. All the rest is PR noise.
What the...?
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:34 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 44):
What does it matter? Its on a Chrysler product, put on Chrysler vehicle at a Chrysler plant by Chrysler employees, shipped to a Chrysler dealership and sold at that Chrysler dealership by sales people representing Chrysler.

Well, it's still a product of Dana holding corporation, not of FCA. All FCA can do is to complain. I don't think they have any major influence on Dana's QA processes. That said, my daily driver is a "Japanese" pick up truck using the same axle. The noises coming from the rear are really peculiar. I don't know how long will the diff last.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 46):
Chrysler is a perennial bottom feeder in reliability surveys. What do you mean by "no better"?

Well, surveys are just that, surveys. And people tend to complain about some products more than about the others. By no better I mean just that. Other products in class are no better than their Chrysler counterparts in every way an experienced driver can judge from driving the vehicle for few days. I obviously can't judge long term reliability, as FCA doesn't want me as a customer. Sadly, because I really wouldn't mind a Charger. And the Giulia, if it ever materializes, will be too late for me.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12520
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:48 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
FCA has simply said they will no longer work with Dart and 200 in-house. The cars will likely continue, with their development out-sourced. Could be an opportunity for, maybe, Peugeot to come to the U.S. market.

Peugeot doesn't make any car that would fit the US market. Well they have a Golf competitor (actually winning accolades against it at the moment) in the form of the 308, and a family sedan the 508, but I doubt it would be enough to enter the US. Most French cars (and Italian ones for that matter) are hatchbacks and MPVs, not sedans and SUVs. To be competitive they would have to be imported from the Chinese plants, too.

Then there is the engine problem, they do know how to make good engines, even collaborated with BMW on the Mini, but at the moment they've concentrated on diesel engines to an absurd level, and the US would demand their top engines power wise as the base engine.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Flaps, GDB, L410Turbolet, lentokone, Mani87, MarcoT, StlHsvSfoSan, Tugger, Waterbomber2, WesternDC6B and 92 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos