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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 49):
Peugeot doesn't make any car that would fit the US market

   Any French car in the US would likely be done though a partnership. The French brands don't have the right product and image. Also PSA really doesn't have the financial strength to reenter the US, and Renault would never do so because of Nissan.
 
luckyone
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 30):
So let me get this straight. When the person defaults on the loan, Chrysler not only has to repossess a used Chrysler product (worth near zero), but has also lost $10,000 cash in addition.That's really not a great business plan.

Actually if you take away the loan-shark/predator aspect of it, it's a profitable plan. Chrysler has likely recouped enough via interest payments to offset any losses.

Quoting polot (Reply 50):
Any French car in the US would likely be done though a partnership. The French brands don't have the right product and image. Also PSA really doesn't have the financial strength to reenter the US, and Renault would never do so because of Nissan.

Renault could rebadge their cars as Nissans. They certainly rebadge other cars in their portfolio as Renaults, such as Dacias in South America.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 49):
Peugeot doesn't make any car that would fit the US market. Well they have a Golf competitor (actually winning accolades against it at the moment) in the form of the 308, and a family sedan the 508, but I doubt it would be enough to enter the US. Most French cars (and Italian ones for that matter) are hatchbacks and MPVs, not sedans and SUVs. To be competitive they would have to be imported from the Chinese plants, too.

While I agree pricing would have to be addressed, Peugeot might be able to develop a US presence by focusing on the grown urban population that buy a lot of hatchbacks. I live in Chicago, which is pretty dense, and hatchbacks are prevalent. They would need, however, a US partner.
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:50 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 51):
Renault could rebadge their cars as Nissans. They certainly rebadge other cars in their portfolio as Renaults, such as Dacias in South America.

They could, but Renault doesn't really offer anything that Nissan doesn't already have here (except city cars/super minis, but those are not popular in the US).
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:17 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

Seems everyone is in a rush to drop old established name plates. But then they are replaced with meaningless letters and numbers in my opinion. Hard to remember. Regarding the Dart; sad that it didn't work. I've always associated the Dart name with a venerable sort of plane workhourse that had as one if it's engine choices the almost bionic 225 slant six. Maybe they aimed to high (prices) and should of come out with a more economical model to wear the Dart badge. They could have gone retro/heritage or whatever they call it. Bottom line, Chrysler/Fiat in my book aren't the first names that come up when describing dependable fun to drive cars.
http://www.asparatu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMAG1126.jpg

Not a Fix It Again Tony rolling spud on wheels but you get the idea. My impression of the current Fiats/Lemonmobiles.
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petertenthije
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:35 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 53):
Bottom line, Chrysler/Fiat in my book aren't the first names that come up when describing dependable fun to drive cars.

Have you got any experience with Fiat's recent models?

Today's Fiats are no longer the joke they were some 20 years ago. Their models may not be suitable for most of the US market due to the American fondness for big cars, but there is nothing wrong with the engineering. The Panda, Punto and 500 series are very well designed and put together.

My 2010 Punto Evo is at over 130k km and I have yet to encounter my first repair beyond regular wear and tear items (tires, windscreenwipers etc). In my experience they are more reliable then Volkswagens which for some reason the local automotive press still consider the benchmark. Probably for tradition's sake as VW used to make indestructable cars.  
Attamottamotta!
 
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Aesma
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:00 pm

In Italy I have an aunt and uncle who own a farm, yet no pickup truck in sight, but an old Punto and a less old one !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 54):

Punto? Hope that name never makes it to the states that would be almost guaranteed failure. There was a car back in the day that was an underpowered firecracker when you hit it from behind. It's name Pinto.
When Fiat was importing to the USA back in the 60's and 70's. they had the Fiat 128 which was almost godly with the folks at Consumer Reports magazine. It got great reviews and was built like a brick you know what. Then, models and quality changed and not for the better and along came Toyota, Honda, Datsun, Mazda and Subaru. And then Fiat pulled out of the States. Is it a hippie/hipster chic anti car thing regarding design? At least the Fiats here got the ugly stick. Small cars don't have to look like Hello Kitty egg crates. Even the Prius finally updated it's style. The last two generations were old in the tooth. And I believe Chrysler and Fiat cars are toward the bottom in repair history reliability at least by Consumer Reports.
http://247wallst.com/autos/2015/10/2...-cars-wrecked-by-consumer-reports/

http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/...015-annual-auto-reliability-survey
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ACDC8
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:01 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 48):
Well, it's still a product of Dana holding corporation, not of FCA. All FCA can do is to complain. I don't think they have any major influence on Dana's QA processes. That said, my daily driver is a "Japanese" pick up truck using the same axle. The noises coming from the rear are really peculiar. I don't know how long will the diff last.

Yeah, I get that, but that doesn't change the fact that it is on a Chrysler product and customers expect it to be up to their (Chrysler's) standards. If Chrysler doesn't have any major influence of the quality control process of their contractors then there is a serious problem and speaks volumes of their lack of interest in a quality product.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
mham001
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:25 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 47):
The only survey that means anything is sales. All the rest is PR noise.

bs. People only discount the surveys when they score badly. Chrysler scores badly in all of them, every year. VW is proof of what poor reliability ratings get you - a bad reputation and slow growth. Believe it, Chrysler already has a bad reputation. Now they go ghetto with the subprime loans and spike some sales. This is typical Marchionne thinking, make the books look good today so he can sell it quick before the cards collapse again.


Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 54):
The Panda, Punto and 500 series are very well designed and put together.

I'm beginning to think we have higher standards this side of the pond. The Fiat 500 is generally not considered well here for overall quality but scores well for performance and design. The 500L is doesn't do well at anything. Many say the 500e is their best model, but Marchionne says he doesn't want you to buy them.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 56):

Punto? Hope that name never makes it to the states that would be almost guaranteed failure.

First thing I think is a Spanish vulgarity.

And then this in today's news...

The troubled Alfa Romeo Giulia needs serious help

Automotive News published a report last week saying two suppliers had insisted the Giulia, on the eve of production, didn't just fail one internal crash test, but failed the front, side and rear impact tests. A third supplier source told us the same thing. Alfa is denying it.

It was due on sale in Europe late last year and was supposed to be here in the next month or two. But it wasn't, and it won't. ..............

Looking from the outside, it looks as though: a) the engineers either can't pitch or don't know how to pitch important projects to Marchionne; b) the money isn't there; c) the actual development of cars is an inconvenient distraction to a CEO playing a high-finance game; or d) a combination of all of them.


http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/10/a...fa-romeo-giulia-needs-help-fedeli/

[Edited 2016-02-10 09:43:50]
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:41 pm

The Punto is a well put together car because at this point it is 10 years old, in addition to having a name that would make most Americans snicker.
 
trav110
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:18 am

I have a Dart and this does not surprise me at all - my car has acquired the nickname Shart, and for good reason.  
 
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mad99
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:43 am

Quoting polot (Reply 59):
in addition to having a name that would make most Americans snicker.

Why? Just curious
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 61):

Most Americans mistakenly think/say/write punta when they mean puta and would say punto the same except with an o instead of an a.

[Edited 2016-02-10 17:09:49]
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 53):

   Why did you post a pic of a Toyota Corolla with Hello Kitty decals with no explanation for it in a Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge thread?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 58):
The 500L is doesn't do well at anything.

I have to wonder if sales of the 500L in the east coast got an uptick following Pope Francis' visit to the U.S. last fall? At the recent Philadelphia Auto Show, one of the black 500Ls that the Pontiff rode in was auctioned off at $82,000 (at the more exclusive Black Tie kick-off event). Other black Fiat 500Ls on display had cardboard cutouts of Pope Francis placed next to the cars.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:11 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 63):
I have to wonder if sales of the 500L in the east coast got an uptick following Pope Francis' visit to the U.S. last fall? At the recent Philadelphia Auto Show, one of the black 500Ls that the Pontiff rode in was auctioned off at $82,000 (at the more exclusive Black Tie kick-off event). Other black Fiat 500Ls on display had cardboard cutouts of Pope Francis placed next to the cars.

Nope, 500L sales continued to suck especially with the introduction of the 500X that fall. In fact Fiat was able to sell more 500X's in the ~6 months that it was available last year (keep in mind that still means limited quantities available for sale in first couple of months) than they sold 500L all year.

[Edited 2016-02-11 09:13:48]
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 26):

Which, to be fair, is not an existing Fiat product but rather a new rebadged Miata.

It's not just a rebadge, it's a pretty extensive re-engineering of the base MX-5, the main carryover is the interior, they don't use the same engines either.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4pgdG3Ckmwg/maxresdefault.jpg

http://automotiva.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Fiat-124-Spider-17.jpg
 
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Aesma
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:04 am

I thought the red one was the Fiat. It looks to me like Mazda has changed the design of the MX-5, while the Fiat looks much more like one.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:57 am

Both models are not selling well, I haven't seen that many 200s & Darts on the road. The Dart is a great looking car but I doubt its reliability matches its cool style, I've seen a one year old Dart with a failed transmission at a Dodge dealership.

Chrysler announced a while ago that it was planning to drop either the Caravan or the Town & County.
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:49 pm

They are dropping the Caravan and replacing the Town & Country with the Pacifica that was revealed last month at the NYC Auto Show.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:40 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 67):
I've seen a one year old Dart with a failed transmission at a Dodge dealership.

I assume it was the ZF 9HP. I guess I have to agree with ACDC8 that Chrysler should be more careful with the suppliers and the purchased material. After the trouble with Jatco CVT's in the Caliber they are in hot water again. This time, somewhat surprisingly, with ZF.
But then, if I'd drive a Dart, I definitely wouldn't have this problem.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
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Polot
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:11 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 69):

The Dart has an in house 6spd DCT or a 6spd Hyundai transmission (plus a manual, but considering its rarity likely not the broken one) depending on the engine. It is the 200 that has been saddled with the unfortunate ZF 9HP.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:21 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 70):

Oh, I see. So which one is giving them the trouble? The classic 6 speed or the dual clutch one?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Marcus
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RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:25 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 65):
It's not just a rebadge, it's a pretty extensive re-engineering of the base MX-5, the main carryover is the interior, they don't use the same engines either.

Sorry but I will have to disagree on this, this is a car developed mainly by Mazda and FIAT only changes some of the cosmetic bits like sheet metal front and back, take a loof at the side pictures and you can see that everything between the wheels is the same in both cars, the door shape, the windscreen, the placement of the side blinkers etc...all main hardpoints are the same, the main changes are for front and back fascias and sheetmetal.

While this is not a badge engineering car like 80's 90's era GM's, I would not call it something with extensive re-engineering. Granted the engine is different.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
747400sp
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Re: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:14 pm

Hello

I brought a 2015 Chrysler 200, and I like the 9 speed transmission, it get pretty good high end speed yet give pretty good fuel economy.
 
747400sp
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Re: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:21 pm

I wonder why FCA did not put the Jeep Renegade on the Fiat Compact platform?
 
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Polot
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Re: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:17 pm

747400sp wrote:
I wonder why FCA did not put the Jeep Renegade on the Fiat Compact platform?

Because the Jeep Cherokee is on the Fiat Compact platform. The Renegade is purposely smaller, hence on a version of the smaller GM/FCA Small platform.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:54 pm

In the early 2000s my wife and I bought a Chrysler Sebring convertible on a whim and that was a big mistake. Car looked good on the outside but the problems we had with it are too many to list here. A bolt of lightning even hit near the poor car and fried some of its electronics...LOL.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: RE: Fiat/Chrysler Dropping Dart/200

Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:08 pm

Marcus wrote:
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 65):It's not just a rebadge, it's a pretty extensive re-engineering of the base MX-5, the main carryover is the interior, they don't use the same engines either.
Sorry but I will have to disagree on this, this is a car developed mainly by Mazda and FIAT only changes some of the cosmetic bits like sheet metal front and back, take a loof at the side pictures and you can see that everything between the wheels is the same in both cars, the door shape, the windscreen, the placement of the side blinkers etc...all main hardpoints are the same, the main changes are for front and back fascias and sheetmetal.

While this is not a badge engineering car like 80's 90's era GM's, I would not call it something with extensive re-engineering. Granted the engine is different.


The doors and rocker panels are different, the windscreen and frame are the same I'll give you that. The suspension settings are also very different.

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