Cop Sues Family Of Man He Killed

727LOVER · Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:33 pm

He killed an innocent neighbor as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/07/us/chi...cer-sues-quintonio-legrier-estate/

http://www.ibtimes.com/chicago-polic...suing-family-man-he-killed-2297133

Aesma · Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:46 am

Only in... you know the rest !

airportugal310 · Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:54 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Only in... you know the rest !

No we don't...tell us please!!!

727LOVER · Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:22 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 2):
Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):Only in... you know the rest !
No we don't...tell us please!!!

Quote the correct person, please....thanks

IMissPiedmont · Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:13 am

Yet the police want immunity. And the remaining good police wonder why they are no longer trusted.

ArmitageShanks · Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:32 am

The police are racist killers.
Criminals deserve to die.
Guns are awesome.
Guns are awful.
America is a shit hole.
Americans are dumb idiots.
America is responsible for every bad thing in the world.
George Bush.
Lawyers are scum.
His parents are to blame.
Typical black criminal.
Republicans are to blame.
Democrats are to blame.
Obama is a tyrant.
Obama is a gutless leader.
Trump.

Am I forgetting something?

n229nw · Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:09 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 5):
The police are racist killers.
Criminals deserve to die.
Guns are awesome.
Guns are awful.
America is a shit hole.
Americans are dumb idiots.
America is responsible for every bad thing in the world.
George Bush.
Lawyers are scum.
His parents are to blame.
Typical black criminal.
Republicans are to blame.
Democrats are to blame.
Obama is a tyrant.
Obama is a gutless leader.
Trump.

Am I forgetting something?

Hey, I am going to sue you for copying part of what I was going to write!!

seb146 · Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:16 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
Yet the police want immunity. And the remaining good police wonder why they are no longer trusted.

According to the CNN site, the officer felt his life was threatened. By a man swinging a baseball bat and not complying with the officer. I get that.

What I don't get are officers who shoot unarmed people 19 times.
What I don't get are people who say the unarmed deserved to die.
What I don't get are officers who are held to a different standard for taking innocent lives.
What I don't get are people who think they are John Wayne killing unarmed people and getting away with it.

WIederling · Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:19 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
What I don't get are officers who are held to a different standard for taking innocent lives.

Wasn't there some ruling around that death caused in context of police pursuit of criminal activity is attributable to the perpetrator?

ikramerica · Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:56 am

The reason he sued is that the family sued him and the police department. So the money would go to his estate (family gets rich). What he wants to so is turn it around and sue for that money and I believe give it away. If the family doesn't win or settle, the cop will drop his suit.

I believe it's a ploy by the PBA to head off these lawsuits that have run rampant with cities settling rather than litigating.

diverted · Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 5):
The police are racist killers.
Criminals deserve to die.
Guns are awesome.
Guns are awful.
America is a shit hole.
Americans are dumb idiots.
America is responsible for every bad thing in the world.
George Bush.
Lawyers are scum.
His parents are to blame.
Typical black criminal.
Republicans are to blame.
Democrats are to blame.
Obama is a tyrant.
Obama is a gutless leader.
Trump.

Am I forgetting something?

A W between George and Bush.

N867DA · Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 10):
A W between George and Bush.

Now, now...let's be inclusive and dislike ALL the George Bushes.

I don't trust police officers and firmly believe the less interaction I have with cops the better. I think police officers are too emboldened in this country because they end up in court with their buddy district attorneys and prosecutors. I'm obviously not a huge fan.

But I also know if things go bad, they're the first people I'd call for help.

diverted · Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:51 am

Quoting N867DA (Reply 11):
Now, now...let's be inclusive and dislike ALL the George Bushes.

That's true. Jebediah and Prescott should be included in there. As well as Jeb! and his money hole of a campaign.

WarRI1 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:17 am

Let us have testimony from all on here who were at the scene of the shooting and are so good at passing judgement about these incidents. Who among us have had a baseball wielding assailant attacking them? Who among us would not react to such an assault to protect their life? If what the Police said is true, maybe the officer has some grounds when he said the assailant caused the actions that resulted in an innocent being shot and killed. Just my opinion of course, I was not there.

bohica · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:21 am

Quoting WIederling (Reply 8):
Wasn't there some ruling around that death caused in context of police pursuit of criminal activity is attributable to the perpetrator?

I don't believe it applies in all jurisdictions.

N867DA · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:41 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
Who among us have had a baseball wielding assailant attacking them? Who among us would not react to such an assault to protect their life?

Who among us chose to become sworn officers of the law? I'm not a pilot but I question the judgment of a pilot who shows up to work drunk or even one who takes off in a blizzard without deicing. Should I stop doing that too? Police Officers have a tough job, and maybe instead of giving them a pass when they kill people we should re-evaluate the requirements and tests to be a cop.

WarRI1 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:00 am

Quoting N867DA (Reply 15):
Who among us chose to become sworn officers of the law? I'm not a pilot but I question the judgment of a pilot who shows up to work drunk or even one who takes off in a blizzard without deicing. Should I stop doing that too? Police Officers have a tough job, and maybe instead of giving them a pass when they kill people we should re-evaluate the requirements and tests to be a cop.

Read my words again, were you or I there? I was not, so I am not about to condemn anyone who was. The Officer was called to that scene as a result of a complaint and he emerged alive and that is not for you or I to judge. There is a process to be followed.

Mir · Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:26 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
If what the Police said is true, maybe the officer has some grounds when he said the assailant caused the actions that resulted in an innocent being shot and killed.

That's a completely separate question from whether he should be suing the estate of someone he killed for emotional distress. Even if you think the shooting was justified, the suit is absolutely despicable.

-Mir

Tugger · Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:05 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
If what the Police said is true, maybe the officer has some grounds when he said the assailant caused the actions that resulted in an innocent being shot and killed.

That's a completely separate question from whether he should be suing the estate of someone he killed for emotional distress. Even if you think the shooting was justified, the suit is absolutely despicable.

Actually I do not find it despicable, sad yes, I wish it were not needed, yes. But in a "the best defense is a good offense" situation it is absolutely a good idea. Just won't make anyone any friends or score "good points".

I can't fault the strategy, just fault that it is basically necessary.

Tugg

WarRI1 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:09 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
That's a completely separate question from whether he should be suing the estate of someone he killed for emotional distress. Even if you think the shooting was justified, the suit is absolutely despicable.

Both families filed suit against the Police, for emotional distress/damages whatever? I think it is only fair that he has the right to sue in return for the emotional distress caused by shooting someone who was an innocent bystander. Does anyone think this Officer will ever be whole again? He killed an innocent bystander because of the actions of this man/boy. Does anyone think the family of the perpetrator should be enriched for the actions which caused the death of the innocent victim? The innocent victims family is the one who should be compensated, not the family of the person who caused the tragedy. He is damaged by emotional distress also. It works both ways.

WarRI1 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:23 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 18):
Actually I do not find it despicable, sad yes, I wish it were not needed, yes. But in a "the best defense is a good offense" situation it is absolutely a good idea. Just won't make anyone any friends or score "good points".

I can't fault the strategy, just fault that it is basically necessary.

It is the state of affairs we now find ourselves in. The lawless sometimes want to enrich themselves for their acts of lawlessness, or their families do. Is there injustice, of course there is.

Acheron · Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:37 am

And this thread is the perfect example of why the cops act like they do in the US: Short of raping their mothers infront of them, cops can do no wrong, no matter how racist or sociopaths on a power trip they are.

Then again, those usually defending cops are white males, so yeah...

N867DA · Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:08 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Does anyone think this Officer will ever be whole again?

It's his job. He accepted the job knowing his actions are subject to review, and that he may need to put himself in danger. He should be given all the mental and physical health care he needs to recover, but ultimately it's his job. I wonder how cops would have handled situations like this 30, 40 years ago. It seems the gun has gone from a weapon of final resort to the weapon to use if someone sneezes in a cop's general direction.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Does anyone think the family of the perpetrator should be enriched for the actions which caused the death of the innocent victim?

If the cop made a mistake, yes. The only downside to this is that the city will pay the money, not the cop personally. I wish cops had to carry something like malpractice insurance. Assuming Rialmo did something wrong, the family should definitely be compensated.

Dreadnought · Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:15 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
That's a completely separate question from whether he should be suing the estate of someone he killed for emotional distress. Even if you think the shooting was justified, the suit is absolutely despicable.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 18):
But in a "the best defense is a good offense" situation it is absolutely a good idea.

Yes, it is despicable but made necessary by the despicable actions of the perp's family - first by raising a kid to be a criminal, and secondly by trying to extort money from his death.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 21):
And this thread is the perfect example of why the cops act like they do in the US: Short of raping their mothers infront of them, cops can do no wrong, no matter how racist or sociopaths on a power trip they are.

So what would you recommend using against a man coming at you with a baseball bat? Bad language?

Have you ever gone on a ride-along with a cop? If you did you might feel a lot more forgiving of them.

Tugger · Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 21):
Short of raping their mothers infront of them, cops can do no wrong, no matter how racist or sociopaths on a power trip they are.

Just curious but where in this thread is this being said or done?

Not be me, at all.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 22):
If the cop made a mistake, yes. The only downside to this is that the city will pay the money, not the cop personally. I wish cops had to carry something like malpractice insurance.

Yes, I could certainly agree with that. Doctors have to carry such insurance and they too serve "the public good" so why not officers? I like the personal responsibility aspect it creates. Nothing wrong or prejudicial against anyone, just need to be insurable.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 22):
Assuming Rialmo did something wrong, the family should definitely be compensated.

And if you didn't assume anything?

Assumptions, on either side, shouldn't be a factor. Only the facts.

Tugg

seb146 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:36 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
first by raising a kid to be a criminal, and secondly by trying to extort money from his death.

So, you know for a fact this is how he was raised? I suppose he could never have been raised in a nice Christian home with strong family values and just decided one day that "if I just smoke crack once..." But, that could never happen because "those people" always raise criminals, right? Also, do you know for a fact that, during the grieving period, when people are not right in the head, some spineless lawyer showed up and said "hey, you wanna make some quick cash?"

Did you ever think of any of that?

Dreadnought · Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:44 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
So, you know for a fact this is how he was raised? I suppose he could never have been raised in a nice Christian home with strong family values and just decided one day that "if I just smoke crack once..."

Know that my son died years ago, and the one greatest thing on my mind (and on my wife's) for many years afterwards was "where did we go wrong?" and "Is there anything we could have done different". The idea of finding someone to sue never came up - although in hindsight there are a few people that I could have gone after. But that would have been despicable.

The fact that these guys went down that road is an indication (not proof, just an indication) that this family is pretty dysfunctional.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
But, that could never happen because "those people" always raise criminals, right?

I don't know what you mean by "these people". I have not followed this case closely - I just know a teenager went after a cop with a bat. What his ethnicity was, I do not know, and I really don't give a shit - it does not matter in the slightest to me. If you act like a dangerous lunatic, it should hardly be surprising if you get treated as one.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):
Also, do you know for a fact that, during the grieving period, when people are not right in the head, some spineless lawyer showed up and said "hey, you wanna make some quick cash?"

A lawyer did approach me after my son died. I can't remember much about the conversation (that whole period is frankly a blur), but I do remember it was very unpleasant and he never came back.

Redd · Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:51 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
think it is only fair that he has the right to sue in return for the emotional distress caused by shooting someone who was an innocent bystander.

That has to be the most absurd statement I've ever come across. He killed an innocent person, at best, due to his gross incompetence. He doesn't have the right to 'emotional distress' If he wins, do you have any idea what kind of precedent this will set? Cops will be able to shoot people and sue their families for their personal emotional distress, absurd.

This cop should be unemployed and possible imprisoned for killing an innocent person.

johns624 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:15 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 27):
. He killed an innocent person, at best, due to his gross incompetence

Care to explain that? Not every shot is a hit under stress. Bullets go through walls. It's the fault of the dead man since he made the cop have to use his gun. I'm not a big police supporter but I also judge each case individually.

Aesma · Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:52 pm

For those who feign incomprehension if meant only in America of course. And not just the ridiculous suit, but the whole story. I don't know how often French cops get attacked (not very often I would guess), but somehow they shoot so few people it makes national headlines every time. In fact even accidental deaths where cops are involved make headlines. Remember the 2005 riots ? Those started because two kids suspected of theft ran from cops and hid into an electric transformer. The cops were nowhere near them, they died of electrocution, and you know the rest.

Dreadnought · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:27 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
Remember the 2005 riots ? Those started because two kids suspected of theft ran from cops and hid into an electric transformer. The cops were nowhere near them, they died of electrocution, and you know the rest.

Another example when the cops are blamed and the criminals who caused the whole event are elevated to the status of martyrs.

777way · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:49 pm

Hope he dosent get a cent and if he wins then the face of America changes with riots etc, literally something never imagined.

Acheron · Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
So what would you recommend using against a man coming at you with a baseball bat? Bad language?

Well, unlike what you might think, people armed with baseball bats are not unique to the US so you might try doing what the rest of the world does when it comes to that?.

Don't you have tasers and pepper spray?.

Heck, with a properly trained cop, using a gun to deal with someone with a baseball wouldn't cross their minds nowhere near as a default go to option.

But then again, the US general sexual arousal and unhealthy obssession with guns, violence and shooting people is indeed pretty unique.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
Have you ever gone on a ride-along with a cop? If you did you might feel a lot more forgiving of them.

I've dealt with enough cops to actually not feel any sympathy for them.

777way · Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:28 pm

It could be the city racists including PD instigated this cretin to countersue to discourage minorities, specifically blacks from suing in the future in such cases, and this may even cause the LeGrier family to drop their lawsuit, I think the Jones were the ones who should have actually been suing.

WIederling · Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 31):

Would be a Good Thing (TM)
No longer being able to shoot the problems but will have to move to fix the cause

bennett123 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Not clear why it required six shots to this guy down.

At that range it would be hard to miss.

casinterest · Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
Yes, it is despicable but made necessary by the despicable actions of the perp's family - first by raising a kid to be a criminal, and secondly by trying to extort money from his death.

Have you read the case? The kid was "emotionally distressed and wielding a bat" according to the 911 call. He was a college kid home for break, and somehow had a mental breakdown. The police report indicates POT may have had a hand in it. However what happens next is very murky.

The cop knew what the situation was going in, and I have some serious reservations about his handling of the situation, when not only did he shoot the suspect 6 times, but he killed an innocent bystander with a shot to the chest.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ones-autopsies-20160114-story.html

The counter lawsuit by the cop is a bit insane especially if LaGrier was trying to kill someone. The police officer did himself and his own investigation no favors by creating such an inflammatory arena for discussion of the issue.

If I was the innocent bystander's family that was shot and killed. I would be suing the hell out of the cop and the family, when all they wanted was help diffusing the situation.
.

Redd · Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 28):
It's the fault of the dead man since he made the cop have to use his gun

You do know cops are trained (at least in other countries) how to deal with confrontations without using a gun? You think it's the fault of the dead man that the cop can't shoot? He probably should have used a taser or walked away and called for back up if he couldn't de-escalate the situation without killing 2 people... In other countries this kind of shite does not happen because cops are apparently trained much better.

zckls04 · Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:40 pm

As everybody knows by now, white people have mental illnesses, black people are thugs and criminals. Also, policemen are always 100% truthful and are never incompetent, despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

And don't forget, we need guns to protect us from tyranny. We don't know what form that tyranny will take yet, but it can't possibly be the police- they're all awesome!

N867DA · Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 24):
And if you didn't assume anything?

Then this thread wouldn't exist, and if we refused to speculate on anything at all, we could stop reading and posting in any public forum. I definitely hope the courts are more enthusiastic to find the truth and show no favoritism to any party.

Mir · Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:54 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Does anyone think this Officer will ever be whole again?

The possibility of shooting someone is part of his job description. It follows that if he needed to shoot someone, it is possible that someone other than the intended target might get hit. That's just occupational hazard which he needs to be willing to accept if he's going to be a police officer. The responsibility for helping him overcome whatever mental trauma he might have suffered is on his employer. If they don't hold up their end of the bargain, then he's more than welcome to sue them for that. The family of the man he killed has done no wrong against him, and he has absolutely zero justification for suing them.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
but made necessary by the despicable actions of the perp's family - first by raising a kid to be a criminal, and secondly by trying to extort money from his death.

So you're just assuming that the deceased was to blame and that everything the officer did was correct. That's not been proven.

If that is the case, then the family's suit should be rejected and that should be the end of that. If that is not the case, and if the officer was incorrect in his actions, then why shouldn't the family be compensated for wrongful death? The city should be the one compensating them, of course, not the individual officer, but they should still be compensated. Unless, of course, the officer was criminally negligent in his actions (which it doesn't seem like he was, but theoretically possible), in which case why shouldn't he also be on the hook?

One way or another, the injured parties (if there are any) would be compensated without any need for his suit.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
The fact that these guys went down that road is an indication (not proof, just an indication) that this family is pretty dysfunctional.

"First by raising a kid to be a criminal, and secondly by trying to extort money from his death" makes it sound like you've got a lot more than an indication.

-Mir

Acheron · Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:40 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 40):
So you're just assuming that the deceased was to blame and that everything the officer did was correct. That's not been proven.

I'm not sure if Dreadnought has a daughter but I'd like to see how he'd react is this said daughter got raped and people's general reaction was "Well, she was asking for it being dressed like that".

Victim blaming is the easy way out...

WarRI1 · Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 40):
So you're just assuming that the deceased was to blame and that everything the officer did was correct. That's not been proven.

Everyone on here is assuming and that is the problem, nobody knows shit about what really happened. The Officer does. I just love the bullshit being tossed out on here. Any Police Officers on here? I was one for a two years, and I do not have a clue as to what I would have done in this situation. You can bet my weapon would have been out if it was warranted. I was is barroom brawls, and restraining crazy, drunken, drugged people, but I never had a bat whizz by my head.

All this bullshit and it does not hold a thimbleful of value. A call was made, a man attacked a Police Officer and two people died because of his actions. Let the people who know determine what happens next. He has every right to sue as have the families. Who deserves damages and who was damaged is still left up to the authorities and juries. All you armchair experts keep up the blather. Nobody serves to die, some may, and some perpetrators may also. Such is life., such is the dangerous world of law enforcement and criminal activity.

DocLightning · Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:47 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 41):

I'm not sure if Dreadnought has a daughter but I'd like to see how he'd react is this said daughter got raped and people's general reaction was "Well, she was asking for it being dressed like that".

Victim blaming is the easy way out...

He might not say that about his own daughter, but in the 17 or so years I've been on A.net I've seen him say similar things about other peopels' daughters.

seb146 · Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:26 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 42):
Nobody serves to die, some may, and some perpetrators may also

If there is a crazed person swinging a baseball bat at your head, I understand using a gun. Clearly self defense and I do not have a problem with that.

However, if the person with the bat was close enough that the officer had to duck and cover, how did the second person get shot? Isn't that nearly point blank range from the officer to the person with the baseball bat?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 42):
Such is life., such is the dangerous world of law enforcement and criminal activity.

And this cavalier attitude is what is making people mad at police. This is why civilians think police simply do not care. The ones who shoot unarmed civilians all seem to have this attitude.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 35):
Not clear why it required six shots to this guy down.

At that range it would be hard to miss.

If shots went into his arms and legs and abdomen, I can understand that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Another example when the cops are blamed and the criminals who caused the whole event are elevated to the status of martyrs.

So, two people are SUSPECTED of stealing. Not that it was actually proven. They were just SUSPECTED. Maybe they did and maybe they did't. You are saying "they deserved to die" and "good riddance." These were someone's children. But, oh, well. Who cares. Right?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
A lawyer did approach me after my son died.

Not a shock. As with the OP, probably.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 26):
The idea of finding someone to sue never came up - although in hindsight there are a few people that I could have gone after. But that would have been despicable.

Ethics are fluid. They differ from person to person. Maybe this family had the lawyer be such a smooth talker that s/he made it sound like the best deal ever. Make money off the death of their child. Or, as you believe, they raised this child to die so they could collect millions.

Mir · Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:29 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 42):
Everyone on here is assuming and that is the problem, nobody knows shit about what really happened. The Officer does.

Not even he knows. The human ability to recall stressful scenarios precisely is not very good. That's why body cameras are so useful.

-Mir

ikramerica · Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:23 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 38):

Play the race card if you want but white people are getting shot and killed and beaten to death by cops as well. Happens in LA far too often.

GDB · Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:09 am

Cops in all other western nations have to face people with bats, knifes etc, much less often with guns because that obsession is not there, rarely do they shoot, even more rare in places like the UK where most of them are not armed in the first place.
Rarely too are the officers killed, it's a big news story when it happens.

As to the idea of this trigger happy jerk - now killer - being allowed to sue, pretty incomprehensible even if it's his union pushing it.
I doubt he'd get through the (much longer) training police officers have to do in most other western democratic nations.
Including for those where firearms training isn't part of basic training.

Seems that for all the fist pumping about 'how much more freedom' some in the US bang on about, fact is you are not only much more likely to be killed by a cop in the US if you are unarmed, non white and unarmed exponentially so, the cop has much more chance of not only evading justice or just keeping their job if it's a clear use of excessive force but your loved ones might get sued too!
Doesn't sound much like a more free society to me, unless your a cop that is.

If you don't fancy the danger that goes with being a cop anywhere, don't do it. Could it be that the entry requirements for a cop in the US is at a level it's by far the best paying - and unionised of course the one union the GOP likes - job some of these cops in these cases we are seeing so many of, could ever hope to get?
Not a vocation, or to serve their community.
By no means am I tarring all, or even most, officers in the US with this brush but what is the training period, what are the requirements?

[Edited 2016-02-11 01:34:49]

WIederling · Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:21 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 38):
And don't forget, we need guns to protect us from tyranny. We don't know what form that tyranny will take yet, but it can't possibly be the police- they're all awesome!

The tyranny is already there and most everybody from the gunswingers club hasn't given a sh't.
All they do is clamor for more of that tyranny.

seb146 · Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:38 pm

I know I may face backlash from this but I wonder:

How many people killed by cops are war veterans with PTSD? How many people killed by cops have mental issues? How many people killed by cops have a drug or alcohol problem? Or are abuse victims? Or are in the wrong place at the wrong time?

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