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Aesma
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500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:21 pm

It seems the bill is used for illegal activities more than for legitimate uses.

What are your thoughts ?

I'm not sure I've even seen one, so it will not change my life, that's for sure ! Before the Euro the biggest bill in France was 500F, so less than 100€. I believe the Germans are the main supporters of the 500€ bill, I'm not sure why. To keep small stacks under the mattress ?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
I'm not sure I've even seen one, so it will not change my life, that's for sure ! Before the Euro the biggest bill in France was 500F, so less than 100€. I believe the Germans are the main supporters of the 500€ bill, I'm not sure why. To keep small stacks under the mattress ?

I don't know enough about the culture in Germany, and I know France has a card and check-based spending culture for a long time. But in Switzerland cash was king for a long time. It is still not unusual to buy a car with cash, for example. You got the cash at the bank and go to the dealership. Obviously this is a lot easier if you have large denominations.

Governments obviously want to minimize this cash culture as they can't monitor income/revenue taxes as well, and banks don't like it because they can't charge as many fees on cash transactions.
 
1g
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:21 pm

Can't think of a reason that you would absolutely need to have a 500 EUR bank note.

I think the 100 and 200 EUR bank note is sufficient with any large transaction that you want to conduct in cash for whatever reason.
 
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Aesma
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:23 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
It is still not unusual to buy a car with cash, for example. You got the cash at the bank and go to the dealership.

Totally illegal in France, even for a used car, unless it's less than 3000€.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:23 pm

I read that drug smugglers like to use Euros, as the largest denomination is 500 €, and it can be changed in many countries with ease.

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
To keep small stacks under the mattress ?

There is no penalty in keeping cash at home. My savings account gives me 0.3% of interest. And as I like to collect coins (there are still very few silver coins in Swiss circulation... I like to snatch them), very often I pay in bank notes.

And also, cash is the most secure thing you can have - because you know what happens when somebody else gets his hands on the cash. A (credit) card, on the other hand, depends on the PIN code, the implementation of its security, if signatures can be falsified...you can't be totally sure what happens when you lose the card. If it was "secure" as cash, you would not need to call the card's issuer's customer service to have the stolen card voided.


David
 
Okie
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:28 pm

The US had $500, $500, $1000, $5000 and $10000 bills but discontinued issuing them back about 1969-70 or so.
I think the last printing was 1945 of those denominations.

When I was in grade school one of the parents father worked for a bank and brought a $10,000 bill for the students to look at.
He said it was basically useless since they were mainly conversation pieces and were not in circulation and the only place it could be deposited or used was at the bank that held the serial number.

Okie

[Edited 2016-02-12 12:31:16]
 
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Aesma
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:44 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
And also, cash is the most secure thing you can have - because you know what happens when somebody else gets his hands on the cash. A (credit) card, on the other hand, depends on the PIN code, the implementation of its security, if signatures can be falsified...you can't be totally sure what happens when you lose the card. If it was "secure" as cash, you would not need to call the card's issuer's customer service to have the stolen card voided.

I'm not sure I follow you. If I lose my card, I call my bank and cancel it, they will refund every illegitimate use. If I lose my stack of bills, I'm screwed.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
It seems the bill is used for illegal activities more than for legitimate uses.

Nooooooooooo, how didn't we see that coming?  Wow!  Wow!  

I always thought that the Brussels bureaucrats created that bank note to ease their own embezzlements, but I probably have a twisted mind.
 
ACDC8
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
I'm not sure I follow you. If I lose my card, I call my bank and cancel it, they will refund every illegitimate use. If I lose my stack of bills, I'm screwed.

First you have to prove what the illegitimate uses were - not always easy depending on the bank.

I agree that cash is still one of the most secure options out there. Too many times I've been somewhere and their machines were down or my card wouldn't work.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
I'm not sure I follow you. If I lose my card, I call my bank and cancel it, they will refund every illegitimate use. If I lose my stack of bills, I'm screwed.

It's simple... you have a nuclear reactor. In which ways could it fail, leading to a catastrophe? For example, the coolant could leak... the emergency cooling pump could fail... the control rods could fail... so the security analysis of a nuclear powerplant is a serious exercise in safety engineering.

With wind power, the most dangerous thing would probably be the collapse of the tower, crushing a cow or two.

Similarly, the failure modes of a card are more difficult to oversee in comparison to cash. If it's stolen, it's just stolen. When even a layman can easily understand the security risks, then it is inherently safe.


David
 
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fr8mech
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:32 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
And also, cash is the most secure thing you can have - because you know what happens when somebody else gets his hands on the cash.

That doesn't make it secure, that makes it less risky. Less exposure to additional problems. It is not more secure.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):

Totally illegal in France, even for a used car, unless it's less than 3000€.

Why in God's name would that be illegal?

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8):
First you have to prove what the illegitimate uses were - not always easy depending on the bank.

I've had fraudulent charges removed and it was no more difficult than making a phone call. Institutions: J.P. Morgan, American Express, Capitol One & Fifth Third.

I don't recall ever seeing a 500 Euro note (hey, how do you make that Euro thingie?)
 
ltbewr
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:08 am

Such bills are near useless but for drug dealing, other criminal acts or tax evasion. That is why the USA doesn't issue for legal tender anything over $100.
 
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Aesma
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:31 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Why in God's name would that be illegal?

To deter tax evasion and other illegal activities, money laundering for example.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
(hey, how do you make that Euro thingie?)

AltGr + E

At least on my French keyboard, it's even displayed on the E key.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:36 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
But in Switzerland cash was king for a long time. It is still not unusual to buy a car with cash, for example. You got the cash at the bank and go to the dealership. Obviously this is a lot easier if you have large denominations.

That's how I bought my last car. Switzerland still has a 1000 Franc banknote, equivalent to about US$1020 or 910 euros. With the 1,000 franc denomination you can carry the equivalent of $1 million in a coat pocket. With the current largest US$100 denomination you need a briefcase.

There was a 500 Swiss franc banknote until about 20 years ago when it was replaced with a 200 denomination. Now 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 1000 paper denominations.

Quoting Okie (Reply 5):
The US had $500, $500, $1000, $5000 and $10000 bills but discontinued issuing them back about 1969-70 or so.
I think the last printing was 1945 of those denominations.

Canada dropped their $1000 denomination in 2000 to reduce it's use in money-laundering etc.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...st-in-the-hands-of-criminal-elites
 
ACDC8
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I've had fraudulent charges removed and it was no more difficult than making a phone call. Institutions: J.P. Morgan, American Express, Capitol One & Fifth Third.

I would think it all depends on the bank one is dealing with - some may be easier than others.
 
ikramerica
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Such bills are near useless but for drug dealing, other criminal acts or tax evasion. That is why the USA doesn't issue for legal tender anything over $100.

Well, that WAS true when a mercedes cost $10,000. But there was a lot of inflation between 1970 and 2015, so at minimum, a $200 bill might be of use.

I don't like carrying anything larger than a $20 because many people won't take them, but routinely I see Armenian immigrants around here with $100s and trying to pay with them and having to get approval, etc.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:35 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 14):
I would think it all depends on the bank one is dealing with - some may be easier than others.

True, but so far, my experience has been 100% positive when disputing fraudulent charges.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
To deter tax evasion and other illegal activities, money laundering for example.

Silly.

I can certainly see the allure of having larger bills, but as we move into a more "cashless society" I can certainly see the benefits in reducing the different denominations in circulation.
 
ACDC8
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
True, but so far, my experience has been 100% positive when disputing fraudulent charges.

Thats good to know  

Fortunately, I've never had to deal with any fraudulent charges on my debit card ( just one on my credit card that the CC company caught in time). The only negative experience I've had on my debit card was when they froze it because they believed it to have been compromised - which became a bit of a problem because I was putting a down payment on a new car at the time - but nothing had been taken out of my accounts.

[Edited 2016-02-12 22:30:51]
 
tommy1808
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:12 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
I believe the Germans are the main supporters of the 500€ bill, I'm not sure why. To keep small stacks under the mattress ?

I guess because we had a 1000 DM bill and culturally like to pay cash. Even apartments and houses are still sometimes cash transactions.

Best regards
Thomas
 
PanHAM
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:34 pm

When we changed from the DM to € seberal People from Israel send me 100 DM bills to Change into €. The Balkan countries, where the DM was and the € now is, would love to Keep the 500 € bill.

Legal or illegal, used car Dealers Need the cash. Officially in Germany now, the threshold is 14.999,999€ for cash deals. How can you syenn a used car when there is a Limit of € 5k would be imposed? The private sale of a used car worth more than 5K would be almost impossible. Or would you trust someone claiming that he just transferred € 50K to your bank account and give me the keys and the title?

At the end of the day, such legislation would lead to full control of the bureaucrats over their sovereign. Can't be and won't happen in Germany.
 
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XAM2175
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:56 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 15):
I don't like carrying anything larger than a $20 because many people won't take them

I've now heard this from a few people who've travelled to America. Is confidence in the security of your banknotes really that low, even with the newer Series 2009 $100s?

In Australia $100 is also the largest note issued but usually the only reason you'll have for one being refused is inability to make change. Plus the $50 note is the standard denomination you'll receive from an ATM, unless you withdraw an amount that can only be fulfilled with $20 notes.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
(hey, how do you make that Euro thingie?)
Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
At least on my French keyboard, it's even displayed on the E key.

It's not directly possible on a standard US English keyboard, which don't have a Graphics Alt (AltGr) key.
However, if you're using Windows, it can be done by holding down either standard Alt key while entering 0128 on the numpad.
Some applications though, like Word, will accept Ctrl+Alt as a replacement for AltGr on US keyboards and so will print € for Ctrl+Alt+E.
(and as an aside, £ is Alt + 156 )

[Edited 2016-02-13 05:59:56]
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:49 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Why in God's name would that be illegal?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I've had fraudulent charges removed and it was no more difficult than making a phone call. Institutions: J.P. Morgan, American Express, Capitol One & Fifth Third.

I battled 4 months to get my money back after my card had been reported stolen but someone still managed to charge several thousand dollars worth of goods and the credit card bill was auto-debited from my account.

As a general rule it should always be preferable to deal in cash, and keep credit card transactions to only what you absolutely have to (such as internet transactions). It keeps you from getting too much in debt.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 20):
I've now heard this from a few people who've travelled to America. Is confidence in the security of your banknotes really that low, even with the newer Series 2009 $100s?

It is interesting that US currency is just about the easiest currency to counterfeit among the first world currencies, and has been for years. I've never quite figured out why they haven't done more to make it harder to copy accurately, such as more colors and more use of relief (raised features).
 
tommy1808
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:52 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
Or would you trust someone claiming that he just transferred € 50K to your bank account and give me the keys and the title?

Just use a bank guaranteed check, they still have those, or only hand the title over after the money is in your account, which is zero risk for the buyer.
And of course you can still make money transfers that clear well under one hour.
After all, what do you do if he pays with faked cash...

Best regards
Thomas
 
PanHAM
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:08 pm

Last time I sold a used car the Price was agreed and the cash was paid. Nice try with a bank guaranteed check but that does not hold up to reality. Same with the title. That way a criminal seller can sell a car ten times and vanish and still Keep the title in his Hands. Counterfeit Money is a risk and robberies as well. But a cash Limit would be the greatest risk for this type of Business.

.
 
tommy1808
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
Same with the title. That way a criminal seller can sell a car ten times and vanish and still Keep the title in his Hands.

He only has one car, it takes a new kind of stupid to buy a "car" without getting the car.
If the seller refuses to hand out the title later, that is only an inconvenience, not a problem, since you have the car, the contract and the proof of payment.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
Nice try with a bank guaranteed check but that does not hold up to reality

You can always call the issuing bank and see if it is genuine. Not honoring their own guaranteed check is like going default, something you can not recommend if they want to stay in business.

There are reasons why it is recommended to do that kind of cash transaction in your bank... In that case you can just as well do a money transfer.

I don't like limits on cash transactions either, but I don't think that any kind of legal transactions requires cash to be workable.

Best regards
Thomas
 
johns624
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 20):
I've now heard this from a few people who've travelled to America. Is confidence in the security of your banknotes really that low, even with the newer Series 2009 $100s?

That used to be the reason but now it's a matter of many small businesses not keeping enough $20 bills in the drawer to make change, due to fears about robberies.
 
diverted
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:48 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
That's how I bought my last car. Switzerland still has a 1000 Franc banknote, equivalent to about US$1020 or 910 euros. With the 1,000 franc denomination you can carry the equivalent of $1 million in a coat pocket. With the current largest US$100 denomination you need a briefcase.

There was a 500 Swiss franc banknote until about 20 years ago when it was replaced with a 200 denomination. Now 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 1000 paper denominations.

They haven't been printed in YEARS but we still have a $1000 bill in circulation. They stopped printing them for the same reasons; really easy to conduct massive cash deals with $1000 bills than $100. (For reference $1M in $100's would be 10kgs, and 10,000 bills. $1000 bills and its 1000 notes, weighing 1KG.

They're known as pinky's and they're still the highest denomination western bill. (though realistically only $700 US or so these days)

 
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Aesma
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:52 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
Legal or illegal, used car Dealers Need the cash. Officially in Germany now, the threshold is 14.999,999€ for cash deals. How can you syenn a used car when there is a Limit of € 5k would be imposed? The private sale of a used car worth more than 5K would be almost impossible. Or would you trust someone claiming that he just transferred € 50K to your bank account and give me the keys and the title?

Guaranteed checks are the norm. The only people complaining are shady.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
It keeps you from getting too much in debt.

Or you could use debit cards like most French people do (or checks if they're old school).
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Or you could use debit cards like most French people do (or checks if they're old school).

As bad or worse. My wife is an EXPERT at overdrawing her account. If she sees something she wants, and she has a check handy or a card that will work, she buys it. Then I get a call from my bank saying my account is overdrawn, fees apply etc etc. She has cost me thousands upon thousands of dollars in bank fees in the past.

That is why for the past 10 years I have refused to give my wife a card or a checkbook. I give her cash every 2 weeks, that way whenever she looks into her wallet to buy something she can physically see what she has left for the next X days.
 
johns624
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:40 pm

I hardly ever pay with cash. I just don't like carrying a lot around. I also haven't paid any interest on my credit cards in over 20 years. All it takes is common sense. If I don't have the money to pay it off, I don't buy it. It's too bad that you have to treat your wife like a child.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 29):
It's too bad that you have to treat your wife like a child.

She's female. They're all frickin' mental.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:05 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 22):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
Or would you trust someone claiming that he just transferred € 50K to your bank account and give me the keys and the title?

Just use a bank guaranteed check, they still have those, or only hand the title over after the money is in your account, which is zero risk for the buyer.
And of course you can still make money transfers that clear well under one hour.
After all, what do you do if he pays with faked cash...

Best regards
Thomas

Most private car sellers would consider this to be too much effort and too bureaucratic. Last time I bought the Smart (with cash) and for the Landrover, I made a large downpqayment in cash and paid the rest by cheque( the last time I used a cheque), but the seller was not happy.

Most Germans like to keep cash transactions, as cash is cash. We also like the anonymity, e.g. this is why Firefox browsers, the Ixquick anonymizer search engine and Tutanota encrypted emails are quite popular here. I personally would never use Chrome and since their last change of privacy policies I also stay away from Google and Yahoo as search engines.

Jan

Jan
 
johns624
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):

She's female. They're all frickin' mental.

Nope. My wife is as financially responsible as anyone. She's in business and knows how to act. It's the women who play the "poor little flighty woman" act and get away with it that are like that.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 26):
They haven't been printed in YEARS but we still have a $1000 bill in circulation. They stopped printing them for the same reasons; really easy to conduct massive cash deals with $1000 bills than $100. (For reference $1M in $100's would be 10kgs, and 10,000 bills. $1000 bills and its 1000 notes, weighing 1KG.

They're known as pinky's and they're still the highest denomination western bill. (though realistically only $700 US or so these days)

I mentioned the CA$1000 in my reply. In terms of value the 1000 Swiss franc denomination, still both printed and circulated, is now worth about twice as much, close to CA$1400 at current exchange rate.

I think the only time I ever personally encountered the CA$1000 banknote was during my 3 years as a CP Air ticket agent at their downtown ticket office in YYC in the early 1970s. Passengers would sometimes use them to pay for tickets, e.g. a family going to Europe or Hawaii etc. Credit cards were much less common then. It always made me nervous when someone would hand me a $1000 bill, which was probably equal to about twice my monthly salary then. With inflation, CA$1000 then is the equivalent of roughly $6000 today. We didn't leave $1000 bills in the cash drawers under the counter but put them in the safe right away before the daily bank deposit the next morning.
 
PanHAM
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:37 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 31):
Most private car sellers would consider this to be too much effort and too bureaucratic. Last time I bought the Smart (with cash)

Indeed, selling a used car never happens at the verbally, over the phone, quoted Price. So much for the Bank certified cheque. Electronic cash takes , depending which bank is used, till the next day. That is for normal gyro accounts. With a Business account that can be the same day but then you don't sell your Company car that way.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):

Guaranteed checks are the norm. The only people complaining are shady.

Thanks. That may be in France. I haven't written a cheque since 10 years or so. I use Auto Banking or electronic Banking both on my private and Company accounts.and i would never use my smart phone for paying anything.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:45 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):

Guaranteed checks are the norm. The only people complaining are shady.

Thanks. That may be in France. I haven't written a cheque since 10 years or so. I use Auto Banking or electronic Banking both on my private and Company accounts.and i would never use my smart phone for paying anything.

Same for me. The only reason I didn't take the whole amount with me in cash, but just a downpayment, when I bought the Landrover, was that I had to go to the seller's place by train and that I had to switch trains at Frankfurt's main station, which is located in the middle of a red light district, with plenty of drug addicts and unsavoury people around. As the seller and me met on a weekend, he was not happy about the cheque (but finally accepted it), as he could not verify it on the spot and wasn't sure if it would have bounced. On the other hand, if he had not accepted it, then I would have had another long ride home by train.

Jan
 
Viscount724
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:51 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):

Guaranteed checks are the norm. The only people complaining are shady.

Thanks. That may be in France. I haven't written a cheque since 10 years or so. I use Auto Banking or electronic Banking both on my private and Company accounts.and i would never use my smart phone for paying anything.

Cheques are virtually non-existent in Switzerland. I've lived here almost 20 years and have never seen one. I think they're used to a limited extent by companies etc. but not by individuals.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:13 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
Cheques are virtually non-existent in Switzerland. I've lived here almost 20 years and have never seen one.

As I recall paper cheques were pretty much outlawed in Switzerland about 25 years ago. They were an anachronism from the past.
 
Toni_
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:45 pm

The only time I saw a €500 banknote (...which turned me into Gollum for a few seconds) was when I bought a second hand car in 2002. It was only a couple of weeks after the introduction of the currency and I guess people were still marvelling about the new notes and accepted them easier. Today cashiers already look at you sideways with suspicious disapproval if you slip out a €100 note.

I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the €200 note either. Most shops don't even accept them anymore. A lot of establishments in the Netherlands for instance have these stickers on their window or cash register:


I only walk around with my bankcards these days so personally I could do without it. For most people this €500 note is like a nugget of gold anyway. It has great value but trading it comes with limitations. Makes sense that mostly crooks and banks use it.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:57 pm

I personally don't like shops knowing and recording my shopping habits, which is very easy via a debit or credit card, as they get my personal details. This is also why I refuse to use a pay back card.
I understand that this attitude is being shared by many of my compatriotes.

Jan
 
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Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 14753
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
Cheques are virtually non-existent in Switzerland. I've lived here almost 20 years and have never seen one. I think they're used to a limited extent by companies etc. but not by individuals.

But we know that Switzerland is not too concerned with tax evasion, or rather that it's an industry there rather than a problem !
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11483
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:08 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
It seems the bill is used for illegal activities more than for legitimate uses.

What are your thoughts ?

I think it is a relatively empty or useless action. The "activities" will simply switch to the next largest denomination. Yes it can make it more difficult by making the quantities and bundles of bills larger which means different methods to transport such. But it is still done.

Tugg
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 8312
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:26 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
credit card bill was auto-debited from my account

Well, that's your first mistake, allowing anyone automatic access to your checking account.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Or you could use debit cards like most French people

If the card has the potential to leave my sight, I will never use my debit card.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 29):
I hardly ever pay with cash.

I'm moving back towards cash. It's easier to teach the kids about fiscal reprehensibility.

This popped into my news feed today.

http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/312...cretary-called-for-end-of-100-bill

I'd be interested to read the study, but haven't had an opportunity to search for it yet.
 
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Aesma
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:40 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 42):
If the card has the potential to leave my sight, I will never use my debit card.

French cards (called Carte Bleue : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carte_Bleue ) have been smart cards since 1992, so that can't happen. Even before that the system has always been designed to register transactions, to check with the bank later, so you could have handheld machines without connection to the telephone.

I'm not sure why the articles says CB has been phased out in 2010, it's still written on my quite new cards.

[Edited 2016-02-16 17:41:24]
 
bhill
Posts: 1890
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 5):
The US had $500, $500, $1000, $5000 and $10000 bills but discontinued issuing them back about 1969-70 or so.
I think the last printing was 1945 of those denominations.

The REALLY big US denominations were only used...and legal...for inter-bank transfers of large sums...before wire transfers were ubiquitous and safer that moving that much gold. And I am not suprised about the Swiss banks, what with all that foreign cash stashed there.......
 
AM744
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:08 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 37):

As I recall paper cheques were pretty much outlawed in Switzerland about 25 years ago. They were an anachronism from the past.

So, how do they deal with say, a mortgage downpayment where the seller is in turn cancelling his own mortgage. An interchange of guaranteed checks among the stakeholders gives some certitude. What are the alternatives? Look in real time at your account balance in a computer screen? Counting lots of potentially false bills? Honest question.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):

Guaranteed checks are the norm. The only people complaining are shady.

Exactly. I think checks still have a place in this day and age.

Man, what do you do with a bunch of false high denomination bills?
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting AM744 (Reply 45):

So, how do they deal with say, a mortgage downpayment where the seller is in turn cancelling his own mortgage. An interchange of guaranteed checks among the stakeholders gives some certitude. What are the alternatives? Look in real time at your account balance in a computer screen? Counting lots of potentially false bills? Honest question.

Real estate transactions are here normally done via a notary public. He has a neutral account, into which the buyer (or his mortgage bank)pays the amount by bank transfer. The notary public will then initiate the transfer of the title at the land office from the seller to the buyer. Only when this has been completed, will he release the sum to the seller, or the mortgage bank listed in the title, again by bank transfer. No cheques involved. It might take a few days, but is pretty safe.

Jan
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:38 am

The technical term is "Escrow Account". Once the registry court has filed the title under the name of the new owner the notary releases the payment to the seller.

This usually takes place within a few days in well organized states in Germany or several months in Berlin.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:10 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 47):

This usually takes place within a few days in well organized states in Germany or several months in Berlin.

The sale of my late grandmother's propertyin Berlin two years ago went quite fast (within a few days) after the questions considering inheritance had been sorted out by a court.

Jan
 
N1120A
Posts: 26857
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: 500€ Bill Could Be Eliminated

Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:10 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
To keep small stacks under the mattress ?

Heh heh

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
I believe the Germans are the main supporters of the 500€ bill, I'm not sure why.

Cash culture.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8):
First you have to prove what the illegitimate uses were - not always easy depending on the bank.

US law protecting any kind of plastic card holder is among the strongest in the world.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Why...would that be illegal?

Tax evasion, mostly.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
That's how I bought my last car. Switzerland still has a 1000 Franc banknote, equivalent to about US$1020 or 910 euros.

Actually, it is about USD $1007 right now.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
True, but so far, my experience has been 100% positive when disputing fraudulent charges.

That is because the US has the strongest consumer protection laws on earth, when it comes to plastic card transactions. There is zero liability for fraudulent transactions, under any circumstance, and a presumption that a charge reported as fraudulent is so. That isn't the case in other countries.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 20):
I've now heard this from a few people who've travelled to America. Is confidence in the security of your banknotes really that low, even with the newer Series 2009 $100s?

That is really overstated. Also, it has almost nothing to do with banknote security, and more to do with fear of robbery. The $20 is actually the most commonly forged note.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 15):
I don't like carrying anything larger than a $20 because many people won't take them

You are overstating it. The only businesses that don't like taking bills over $50 are ones that don't do a ton of cash business and/or are susceptible to robbery.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 25):
That used to be the reason but now it's a matter of many small businesses not keeping enough $20 bills in the drawer to make change, due to fears about robberies.

And due to a shift toward plastic transactions. Most businesses just don't have the same kind of cash turnover they formerly did, so they don't have cash sitting around.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 39):

I personally don't like shops knowing and recording my shopping habits, which is very easy via a debit or credit card, as they get my personal details.

German privacy laws aren't going to allow them to do much data mining.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 42):
If the card has the potential to leave my sight, I will never use my debit card.

In most of the world, and particularly France, the card never leaves your sight.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 43):
I'm not sure why the articles says CB has been phased out in 2010, it's still written on my quite new cards.

Carte Bleue is still used for the ATM and EFTPOS transactions within France, but general payment processing has been replaced by Visa.

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