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mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:42 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 116):

I made it clear I wouldn't vote for The Trump even if he were the only candidate.

The point was that no matter how many insults you throw at Trump supporters, you can't vote for anybody in our election and as such, your opinion is worth the same.

So Trump won Nevada handily last night. There is an article on the demographics of his voters in Nevada. Not quite the stupid white-guy club so many of you portray. It dawned on me also that the primary Republican contenders consists of two hispanics and a white, easily the most "diverse" field.

According to preliminary network entrance polls, he won every single demographic. He carried men by 24 points and women by 18 points. He won those who describe themselves as very conservative, somewhat conservative and moderate. Just as in South Carolina, he bested Cruz among born-again evangelicals.

The polling showed that he even won among Hispanics...........

Half of voters last night had a college degree. He beat Rubio 41-30 among this group. Among those without a college degree, he led Cruz 51-22. In his victory speech, he boasted: "We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated! We're the smartest people."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2016/02/24/daily-202-trump-s-romp-in-nevada-shows-why-conventional-wisdom-about-his-ceiling-may-be-wrong/56cc817a981b92a22d383ec1/
 
rfields5421
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:00 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 140):
simple because the average us citizens today seems to think "no, we can't" about just about any change that could be made.

One of the profound disappointments of my life is seeing the United States turn from a nation that used to believe we could do anything, solve any problem if we worked hard enough toward that goal.

We are now a nation which says 1) we are too poor to provide healthcare for our people; 2) we are too poor to provide pensions and assistance for the elderly and disabled; - both of these are because of the "it is bad for business" mentality which the public has been convinced will be the savior of the nation. That mentality also sees exporting US jobs to other nations as a good thing. And that is the core cornerstone of the "conservative" movement.

Somehow great numbers of the public/ voters have been convinced that is what 'conservativism' is all about.
 
bmacleod
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 137):
Quoting bmacleod (Reply 135):
What really gives me chills is Trump having the power to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack. With his unpredictability you never know where he's headed...

What has he said that would lead you to believe this? I think it is far more believable if you apply this statement to Cruz. Trump really isn't all that unpredictable when compared to any other politician.

Mainly his "loose cannon" attitude - really can anyone trust someone like Trump to be the Commander-in-Chief?
 
Flighty
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:01 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 151):
That mentality also sees exporting US jobs to other nations as a good thing. And that is the core cornerstone of the "conservative" movement.

Trump would not agree with that. Not sure if you call him conservative.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 152):
Mainly his "loose cannon" attitude - really can anyone trust someone like Trump to be the Commander-in-Chief?

If trust is a keyword, I am not sure where Rubio or Hillary Clinton would score in national polls. My guess would be remarkably low. Probably lower than John Edwards. And we know how that turned out.

Trump has shown critical thinking skills that other candidates simply don't have. He's not great but he nevertheless outperforms his opponents. Hillary voted for the Iraq war, if we are judging her ability to command. She directly participated in the greatest folly of the century so far.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:09 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 153):
Trump has shown critical thinking skills that other candidates simply don't have.

He has????

Trump believes he can block Muslims from entering the country. This is for intents and purposes impossible and impractical, not to mention violates our Constitution.

Trump believes Mexico will build a wall to prevent its citizens from entering the U.S.

Trump has proposed TRILLIONS of dollars of additional long-term spending with no way to pay for it.

How does any of this show critical thinking skills?
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 152):
Mainly his "loose cannon" attitude - really can anyone trust someone like Trump to be the Commander-in-Chief?

He may be a loose cannon, but nothing he has done has really suggested that he is a war hawk and would nuke everyone. He has recently criticized the US's involvement in the Middle East, and has also stated ISIS needs to be defeated (so has every other candidate). Let me put it this way, in regards to being in charge of the military and nukes I would trust Cruz & Clinton way less than Trump. I would probably trust Bernie the most because he's against using force almost to a fault.
 
Flighty
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 154):
He has????

Yes, just in the last 2 days, he has said he will prosecute Hillary Clinton as president. Most people in the country view her unfavorably. That is a huge win. It's almost cheap, but it's there for the taking.

Last night, Trump said he loves poorly educated voters. Upon analysis, most voters in the country are poorly educated. Trump noticed another opportunity. It's almost too easy for him.
 
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PITingres
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 153):
Trump has shown critical thinking skills...

I wouldn't call them critical thinking skills, although I suppose that gets into semantics. A more accurate positioning is that Trump shows great sales skills. Picking up target cues and unobtrusively adjusting your sell to it is Sales 201.

Too bad that what he's selling is in essence identical to die Endlösung. You'd think more people would see that, but maybe too many people who remember the 1930's have died of old age.
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:43 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 153):
Hillary voted for the Iraq war, if we are judging her ability to command. She directly participated in the greatest folly of the century so far.

I'd forgive her for that. But not for Libya, I would like to see that they learn from mistakes and she made the exact same one again, with complete disregard.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 154):
Trump believes he can block Muslims from entering the country. This is for intents and purposes impossible and impractical, not to mention violates our Constitution.

Sure he can. They can and do limit visas from certain countries.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 156):
on analysis, most voters in the country are poorly educated.

Really. What does "poorly educated" mean?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:56 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 146):
and in case you ever wondered why German universities have so many US Students... their number is growing faster than world air traffic. Giving free education to those in need is considered development aid here.... we are glad to help out.

I was on a ski lift in St Moritz with a young lady from Germany. Told me I dream of going to university in America. I asked her why she wants to come to America vs going to university in Germany. She told me it is very hard to get into. There was no freedom of choice once you weren't on a college bound path.

"German secondary education includes five types of school. The Gymnasium is designed to prepare pupils' education and finishes with the final examination Abitur, after grade 12, mostly year 13. The Realschule has a broader range of emphasis for intermediate pupils and finishes with the final examination Mittlere Reife, after grade 10; the Hauptschule prepares pupils for vocational education and finishes with the final examination Hauptschulabschluss, after grade 9 and the Realschulabschluss after grade 10. There are two types of grade 10: one is the higher level called type 10b and the lower level is called type 10a; only the higher-level type 10b can lead to the Realschule and this finishes with the final examination Mittlere Reife after grade 10b. This new path of achieving the Realschulabschluss at a vocationally oriented secondary school was changed by the statutory school regulations in 1981 – with a one-year qualifying period. During the one-year qualifying period of the change to the new regulations, pupils could continue with class 10 to fulfil the statutory period of education. After 1982, the new path was compulsory, as explained above. Other than this, there is the Gesamtschule, which combines the Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. There are also Förderschulen/Sonderschulen. One in 21 pupils attends a Förderschule.[5][6] Nevertheless, the Förderschulen/Sonderschulen can also lead, in special circumstances, to a Hauptschulabschluss of both type 10a or type 10b, the latter of which is the Realschulabschluss. Most German children only attend school in the morning. There are usually no provisions for serving lunch. The amount of extracurricular activity is determined individually by each school and varies greatly."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany


America=capitalism=land of opportunity

That's why our colleges and universities are bursting at the seams with international students despite their costs.
 
Flighty
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:59 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 158):
Really. What does "poorly educated" mean?

Good question,
Basically probably means people without a college degree, in today's media parlance. We wouldn't call someone "well educated" without a college degree, but that doesn't mean they aren't full citizens, don't vote, or don't deserve to have politicians defend their interests. Yet, there is this view that "education" is the source of all well being, and also, vitriolic rants against "racist/ignorant" people who haven't had the apparently purifying experience of going to college.

There are a lot of falsehoods in the typical treatment I have laid out above. Plenty of very skilled and cultured people have never been to college, but they are nonetheless painted as "ignorant scum" by certain people. This all goes to the argument about who can have ideas, who determines what is "true" and what group of people should run the country. I am not saying plumbers should run the country exclusively, but they should have a role. A tiny clique of professors/lawyers and think-tankers (Obama, the Clintons, the Bushes) should have a role, but probably not an exclusive role.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:13 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 156):
Last night, Trump said he loves poorly educated voters. Upon analysis, most voters in the country are poorly educated. Trump noticed another opportunity

Except that the majority of the poorly educated in America don't vote at all. Most aren't even registered to vote.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 158):
Sure he can. They can and do limit visas from certain countries.

That won't stop Muslims from entering the U.S. There are plenty of Muslims living in countries that are not "Muslim" countries. Are we going to stop all people from France, the UK and Germany from entering the U.S.? There are many Muslims living in those countries.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 160):
I am not saying plumbers should run the country exclusively, but they should have a role.

But who is going to give them that role? Trump isn't poorly educated (by your definition). He has a degree from an Ivy League school!! He has spent almost his entire life among the wealthy and well-educated, so he doesn't represent the poor. He's just manipulating the poorly educated into believing he will help them when in reality he can't and won't.
 
Flighty
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 161):
majority of the poorly educated in America don't vote at all. Most aren't even registered to vote

Good point, but they can, and he will increase turnout. It's not all about religion and churches anymore.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 161):
But who is going to give them that role? Trump isn't poorly educated (by your definition).

No he's not, and that's kind of important. He's a very rich dude who went to elitist schools. It would be difficult to say he despises the elite because he could never be a part of it. Instead, he is criticizing the elite from the inside, a much stronger and rarer thing.

The country could be run better for the benefit of citizens. Can Trump do that, I really don't know, but we need someone disruptive. Part of "building" something is leveling the site and demolishing things you don't like. The American voters have an excellent economy and culture that they still control via elections. If they want Sanders promises, I think they can have that too, but there is a lot of corruption in the left wing too. Sanders shares creativity and willingness to break the rules, which is what this is really all about. The "rules" aren't beneficial to average Americans in recent decades.
 
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PITingres
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:32 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 162):
Part of "building" something is leveling the site and demolishing things you don't like.

Another part is giving the job to someone with some skills in building, otherwise instead of a rickety building you have nothing. I give you BER as an example.

I disagree with your entire argument, but even if we allow that some major disruption is needed, turning over the reins to someone who might as well be a KKK elite is not the way to do it.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:44 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 162):
The "rules" aren't beneficial to average Americans in recent decades.

But is that the "rules" fault or the fault of the average American that isn't willing to do what is necessary to compete? Many of the uneducated that Trump is catering to are doomed to poverty no matter what policies Trump implements because their lack of education guarantees them little in terms of opportunity.

Trump can't fix with his plans and he's lying if he says he can. However, these folks are so uneducated that they buy his lies and that's what is truly dangerous.
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 161):

That won't stop Muslims from entering the U.S. There are plenty of Muslims living in countries that are not "Muslim" countries. Are we going to stop all people from France, the UK and Germany from entering the U.S.? There are many Muslims living in those countries.

Understood but they could easily slow down migration from certain areas and control population growth through bureaucracy without having to pass any new laws and without having to ask about religious affiliations. Although I think that does come up during the Resident Visa process.
 
LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:56 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 155):
He may be a loose cannon, but nothing he has done has really suggested that he is a war hawk and would nuke everyone. He has recently criticized the US's involvement in the Middle East, and has also stated ISIS needs to be defeated (so has every other candidate

When he says he would bomb the hell out of ISIS and take their oil which would require the use of US ground forces I would say otherwise.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 156):
Last night, Trump said he loves poorly educated voters. Upon analysis, most voters in the country are poorly educated. Trump noticed another opportunity. It's almost too easy for him.

To quote Andy Borowitz "Say what you want about Trump, he's not stupid. He is a smart man with a deep understanding of what stupid people want."
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:42 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 164):
However, these folks are so uneducated that they buy his lies and that's what is truly dangerous.
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 166):
To quote Andy Borowitz "Say what you want about Trump, he's not stupid. He is a smart man with a deep understanding of what stupid people want."

LOL. You go ahead and carry on with that ignorant arrogance.

Get used to it. President Trump.
 
LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:59 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 167):
LOL. You go ahead and carry on with that ignorant arrogance.

Get used to it. President Trump.

Thank you for proving my point.
 
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777Jet
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 145):
To have college education entirely socialized is probably "un-American",

The American way of life would change because then there wouldn't be enough under-qualified workers to do the jobs at the bottom of the barrel  
Quoting Rara (Reply 145):
I agree. To have college education entirely socialized is probably "un-American", as it were. I doubt Sanders could make this work if elected President. But it would already be a huge step forward if college education wouldn't be so astronomically expensive.

  

Having more affordable college education is a good, sensible, realistic & achievable goal IMHO.

Suggesting shifting from the current mostly user pays system to free college education is just a typical stupid, careless, unrealistic and unaffordable left-wing pipe-dream.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 146):
and in case you ever wondered why German universities have so many US Students... their number is growing faster than world air traffic. Giving free education to those in need is considered development aid here.... we are glad to help out.

Of course Germany is glad to help out - they will continue to until there is nothing left.

Free college education is not something that people need.

People need access to water, food, shelter & medicines / medical treatment - college education is not a basic necessity in life.

People who want a college education should pay for it themselves, not depend on the tax payer yet again.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 148):
I think it is fairly ridiculous that people have to pay for their education in the first place with anything else but their will and time.

Education is a broad term.

You do realize that we are talking about college education here, not kindergarten or junior high school?

There comes a time when people should take responsibility for paying their own way unless there is some kind of money tree or bottomless pit of money which it seems that some in here actually believe exists...

Quoting mham001 (Reply 150):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 116):

I made it clear I wouldn't vote for The Trump even if he were the only candidate.

The point was that no matter how many insults you throw at Trump supporters, you can't vote for anybody in our election and as such, your opinion is worth the same.

Well said.

Let's see how the thread regarding their next election unfolds  
 
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zckls04
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:55 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 166):
To quote Andy Borowitz "Say what you want about Trump, he's not stupid. He is a smart man with a deep understanding of what stupid people want."

Trump is a very smart man indeed. He's realized that a switch has been flicked in political discourse which means candidates are no longer required to attempt to tell the truth. Politicians had previously been conditioned to obfuscate, evade, and distract from difficult questions, and that gave everybody the (largely correct) impression that they were slimy weasels. The alternative was outright lying, which was historically disastrous to the political fortunes of anybody caught doing it.

What Trump is taking advantage of is that the incentive not to lie no longer exists. The voters are so entrenched in their obsession over whose team is the best, that they rarely question anything any of their candidates say, and even if they do will forgive almost any untruth on the basis that "the Dems/GOP did it first".

In a way I think it's only due to convention that we haven't already had more Trumps, and I'm certain there will be more to come, whether or not Trump himself is victorious.
 
Pyrex
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:41 am

Quoting adipasquale (Reply 6):
The difference is that Bernie Sanders is not spouting our racist, xenophobic, Isalmophobic BS.

His rhetoric against anyone who has achieved any success in life is just as bad. Plus, he thinks terrorists are caused by global warming...

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 46):
(Also, when our nation spent two years, close to 100 million dollars and locked up the government for doing anything for a year for the Clinton Impeachment Trial - it embarrassed the nation on the world stage - not Clinton's action which was a minor issue - but that we would waste so much on such a minor deal.)

A boss of a company get a BJ from an intern in his office is a huge deal, and not because of infidelity. Any CEO who did that would be fired by the Board, no matter (HP fired theirs for a lot less...).. Regardless of what they think, public employees are not better than us poor private sector folks, and the rules that apply to them should not be different.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 70):
Well, if there is something the US of A doesn't need it is the number of college degrees in science and engineering continuing to stagnate, especially with someone at the helm that is going to make the US much less attractive to foreign talents with all his xenophobic bs.
Affordable education is probably the biggest driver in economic growth you can have.

Right now a US company has to pay an US graduate 1) what those graduates think the need in term of available income plus 2) whatever they paid for their degree within a reasonable time frame plus 3) the interest on that loan.

With education being free they can save 2) and 3), significantly reducing the payroll burden of hiring a US engineer instead of a Thai engineer in Thailand or communist Chinese engineer in Bejing.

I am all for free higher education but before you can do that in the U.S. you have to fundamentally shift the entire university system, and Sanders does not have the stomach for that. If there is one thing universities in the U.S. have shown is that they CANNOT be trusted with more free money.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 125):
BTW, college is extremely expensive in the US, like many things that are supposed to be cheaper thanks to being private. I went to the elite of higher education in France and it cost the state 15000€/year. A normal university costs 8000€/year, and you can become a fine doctor, archeologist, lawyer or top mathematician that way.

You probably didn't have one administrator per teacher (half of them with the word "diversity" in their title). You probably also only had courses that mattered to your area of education and not have half your credits be victim studies or some other bullshit even if you were majoring in something useful like engineering.
 
tommy1808
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:33 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 169):
Free college education is not something that people need

Exactly my point. People don't need degrees, countries and their economies need people with degrees.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 169):

Of course Germany is glad to help out - they will continue to until there is nothing left.

We just had the highest budget surplus in 25 years thank you very much. Free university degrees are part of that, since they are revenue positive for the government.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 171):

I am all for free higher education but before you can do that in the U.S. you have to fundamentally shift the entire university system,

I think it is more a mindset issue.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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scbriml
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:24 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 150):
The point was that no matter how many insults you throw at Trump supporters, you can't vote for anybody in our election and as such, your opinion is worth the same.

I'm still entitled to express it.   
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:57 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 159):
She told me it is very hard to get into. There was no freedom of choice once you weren't on a college bound path.

You can't buy your way into university here, you'll have to pass the Abitur exams (or show equivalency by having lots of professional experience).

What we offer is a structured vocational training programme for those who don't make it through the Abitur. This system both includes real worl hands on experience and theoretical schooling. And there a various grades of skill levels, from apprentice via journeyman to master of thetrade. A master tradesman is considered equalto a PhD here and can draw similar money. You don't need to have a college degree here to be accepted.
I'm a blue collar worker, who went through an apprenticeship, and my new job earns me more than 50,000 Euros per year.
Plus there exist ways you can move on, evening classes, distance learning courses etc.. You are not stuck in a field, if you want to progress, you just have to meet the academic standards.
My mother was one of the first. A nurse by profession(in Germany nursing is considered to be a vocational profession, learned at nursing schools usually located at a hospital), long years of experience allowed her to go to university at the age of 40 to get a degree, without having passed the Abitur exams. Based on this, she still progressed in her career and retired as a senior regional manager.
Btw., there are plenty of American students studying here now, as university education is a lot cheaper here and you can get a degree from a prestigious university for the cost of a degree from a mediocre community college in the US.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678


Jan

Edit:
Here is another, more recent article about American students in Germany:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/wh...e-flocking-germany-staying-n515961

While the German states cover the tution, they say keeping the education for free, even for foreigners, is a win-win situation, as up to 50% of the foreign students stay here after they graduate and then work and pay taxes.
I know several Americans in myprofession, who decided to stay here for good. Most of them came here with the American military and met German wives (or in one case of an American woman, a German husband). They all say that, deside their spouse's families, the better social security and better labour laws (and sometimes better salaries) make them stay here, even though they could return back to the US at any time. They also praise the quality of life here as opposed to where theycame from. E.g. in the case of the woman, she is black and came from a rural village in Georgia. Here she lives in a small rural village in Germany and feels completely at home there and integrated.

[Edited 2016-02-25 02:28:29]
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 173):
I'm still entitled to express it.   

Entitled? That's an interesting word. Do you consider yourself elite?

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ec99
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:20 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 171):
His rhetoric against anyone who has achieved any success in life is just as bad. Plus, he thinks terrorists are caused by global warming...

He is a left-wing nut job but if you look at his tenure in Burlington his policies were not that extreme. I am not voting for him but I don't think his populism is particularly unique.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 171):
A boss of a company get a BJ from an intern in his office is a huge deal, and not because of infidelity. Any CEO who did that would be fired by the Board, no matter (HP fired theirs for a lot less...).. Regardless of what they think, public employees are not better than us poor private sector folks, and the rules that apply to them should not be different.

This just seems like you are a Newt Gingrich caliber hypocrite or are just unfamiliar with American political and legal history. Before Clinton’s affair went public, these type of things were looked at differently. They were things rich powerful white men did. I am not condoning it but merely saying your focus on Clinton reflects either bias or lack of knowledge. See article below about Bush 41s affair. Only difference was the dems in Congress decided not to make a political issue out of it.
If you are going to argue that your point isn’t just a political potshot you have to check the facts first.
http://tca-reference-desk.blogspot.c...itzgerald-described-as-george.html
 
727LOVER
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:35 pm

If Trump is elected president, would this be the USA's 1st HOT First Lady?
 
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PITingres
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:28 pm

She wouldn't be the youngest. Jackie Kennedy was 31 at the inaugural.
 
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777Jet
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:20 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 172):
People don't need degrees, countries and their economies need people with degrees.

They don't need everybody who would be entitled to free college education to have a degree.

The current system in most countries produces enough degree holders to do the jobs that need degrees - whether or not those people choose to use their degrees, and where, at the end of the day is their own choice.

If people with degrees go overseas to earn a higher wage because the local wage is too low which causes a skills shortage then that is the systems fault.

People will still go overseas for higher wages - giving out free college education won't solve skills shortages in that sense.

Look how many people who have degrees now can't even get decent jobs in some countries and in some cases are no better off work or career wise than if they didn't have a degree.

Free college education for all is just a stupid idea.

More affordable college education makes much more sense, given that under the current expensive mostly user pays system there are still enough people willing to take on huge debt to get a degree, people who still might end up on minimum wage anyway...
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:55 am

Free university education, coupled with strict academic criteria for enrollment. Plus a structured vocational training scheme leading to a recognised career path for those who are not academically inclined.
E.g. in the US you are nothing without a college degree, even if it is one in South Bessarabian Basket Weaving.
A licenced airframe & powerplant mechanic is considered semi skilled in the US.
Here an apprentice is actually earning money as he learns, more or less a pocket money, but it teaches him that there are rules. He gets the money, bu he will have to be in the shop on time, obey the master tradesman's orders and work for a whole day.Also a third year apprentice is almost like a qualified journeyman, so that the company gets compensated for what it spent on him during the first years.

Free college education allows those who have the academic skills and mindset, but come from poor families, to get into the academic world.

Jan
 
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777Jet
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:34 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 181):
Free university education, coupled with strict academic criteria for enrollment.
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 181):
Free college education allows those who have the academic skills and mindset, but come from poor families, to get into the academic world.

Do the rich kids with academic skills and mindset still get free uni education under your system or just the poor?

What about the dumb rich kids who are still willing to pay their own way? Can they still attempt a degree?

I'm just curious about the different pathways to higher education under your ""Free university education, coupled with strict academic criteria for enrollment"" system.

[Edited 2016-02-25 18:43:24]
 
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WarRI1
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:47 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 181):
Free college education allows those who have the academic skills and mindset, but come from poor families, to get into the academic world.

A noble thought, but we do not do too much noble these days. We like the class system, top, middle and lower with the lower living standards that goes along with each class. If everyone was equal, what would be the sense of achieving, driving for success, screwing your fellow citizens as is so common here now.
 
opethfan
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:42 am

I like Sanders. I like Trump. I'd vote for the Libertarian, though.

A public debate on "the establishment" and the garbage that is the two party, right left system needed to happen half a century ago or more. But any progress is good, even though I think the real progress will be made when Congress, with its 15% approval but 90% re-election rate, is the subject of these discussions.
 
tommy1808
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:13 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
Do the rich kids with academic skills and mindset still get free uni education under your system or just the poor?

Everyone. In a tax besed system you can't charge extra from those that already carry the higher tax burden.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
What about the dumb rich kids who are still willing to pay their own way? Can they still attempt a degree?

If you don't match the entry criteria, you are not going to university. Even if your parents can donate a new hospital wing.
You are free to go back to school to earn the entry qualification.

If you don't match the sttict academic criteria, there are more lose criteria if:

1) you have a "Meister" literally meaning "Master" in your recognised trade, which means you've been through your jorneyman time, worked in your field for a while and made your Meister, which is about the equivalent of a bachelor degree learning wise.
2) learned a recognised trade, have significant work experience and pass an entry exam.
3) you hold a certificate that is equivalent to a Meister from another training regime

All of the above qualifies you to go to university to earn a degree in a field that your recognised trade is about. Like a automotive mechatronics engineer, 3 years training, 2 years working plus passing the Meister program, would qualify you to study engineering.

Plus side of the system, many people start working here with 16, 3 to 3.5 days/week in the company, rest in school, pass their finals when they are 18 or 19, made their own living during that time and can start their career. And go to university later if they feel the urge.
I think this dual-system is the main reason for germany''s economic sucess.

Best regards
Thomas
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:44 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):

What about the dumb rich kids who are still willing to pay their own way? Can they still attempt a degree?

Can't get into university here. Pass the Abitur exams or show many years of professional experience, based on vocational training (and not just basic level). Foreign students have to show that they have equivalent education. And those students who don't hack it get washed out fast.

So even the millionaire's son or daughter will have to go down the vocational route if he can't meet the criteria.

Jan
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 181):
A licenced airframe & powerplant mechanic is considered semi skilled in the US.

Ya, maybe your English is off regarding the use of the word 'skilled', but that's just not true. I worked with my hands and got plenty of respect for skills. I don't believe many white collar people are often referred to as 'skilled', it is usually used in regards to 'skilled trades'.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:35 pm

No way! The biggest problem this country faces is the huge wealth gap, in the 1960s the lower 90% had ~70% share of the average income growth now that share has dropped to sub-zero! Thanks to the Trickle-down economics, a Republican multi-billionaire will only exacerbate the problem.

Only those who like what they see here should vote Republican...

 
MD11Engineer
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:42 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 187):
Ya, maybe your English is off regarding the use of the word 'skilled', but that's just not true. I worked with my hands and got plenty of respect for skills. I don't believe many white collar people are often referred to as 'skilled', it is usually used in regards to 'skilled trades'.

I'm a FAA A&P mechanic, done the exams and have the licence, but from what I got told back then at A&P school in 2001,the US Department of Labor classifies an A&P mechanic as "semi skilled" due to no college degree required.

Jan

Edit:
AQpparently the whole thing comes from the ATA to push down the salaries of the mechanics by declaring them to be semi skilled. There have been several threads on A.net about this issue between 2000 and 2005.

[Edited 2016-02-26 11:56:50]
 
LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:46 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 188):
No way! The biggest problem this country faces is the huge wealth gap, in the 1960s the lower 90% had ~70% share of the average income growth now that share has dropped to sub-zero! Thanks to the Trickle-down economics, a Republican multi-billionaire will only exacerbate the problem.

Only those who like what they see here should vote Republican...

The reason the way a lot of people vote are the three G's, god, guns and gays. If you tell them what they want to hear on those three subjects they will vote for you.
 
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ER757
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:32 pm

Was out last night and missed the debate, but got home just in time to see a CNN reporter do a post-debate interview with the Donald. It was surreal...he called Rubio a choker, prattled on about his flop-sweat, said the IRS always audits him and thinks maybe it's because of his religion, and on and on. Of course he also took every chance he had to say how great he was at business and even sports! It was pure comedy gold, I haven't seen anything that funny on TV since Fawlty Towers
 
rfields5421
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:12 pm

Everyone in the US on Donald's income level gets audited almost every year, however he hasn't said if he personally, or his company are being audited.

There is a difference.

He is not being singled out because of his religion or any other reason. He is being audited because he likely takes every questionable deduction possible.

Donald is also completely wrong about not being able to release his tax returns while being audited. He can do so, and he could release revised returns if the audit is competed before the election. Now, it is likely that his tax lawyers are telling him that the returns cannot be released because they don't want anyone who might have proof of irregularities to see those returns.

The best news is that we apparently have a voice in the election this year in Texas. So Rubio gets my vote.
 
coolian2
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:47 pm

If I had a vote, it would be Sanders first. Not because I dislike Hillary but because he represents my general opinions.

Then Hillary.

Then my cat (he's old but he'll survive the term).

Then a Republican.
 
stratosphere
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:24 am

Ill tell you what I never really liked Trump even before he decided to run for president. But just the fact that a lot of these hollyweird liberals and also Al "NO TAXES" Sharpton threatening to leave the country is giving me a reason to vote for him
 
MD-90
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:42 am

I'm going to vote for him on Super Tuesday.

1. He says he supports auditing the Federal Reserve
2. He's less of a warmonger than every other candidate still in the race.
 
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777Jet
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:31 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 185):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):
What about the dumb rich kids who are still willing to pay their own way? Can they still attempt a degree?

If you don't match the entry criteria, you are not going to university. Even if your parents can donate a new hospital wing.
You are free to go back to school to earn the entry qualification.
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 186):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 182):

What about the dumb rich kids who are still willing to pay their own way? Can they still attempt a degree?

Can't get into university here.

Here idiots can still get in to some courses through Open Universities.

Of course, if they are dumb they will just fail, and fail, etc.

However, if they do alright, there is a pathway to transfer to being an on campus student if they choose.

Regardless, there is still a way for idiots to get into some uni courses here.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4046
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:52 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 194):

Ill tell you what I never really liked Trump even before he decided to run for president. But just the fact that a lot of these hollyweird liberals and also Al "NO TAXES" Sharpton threatening to leave the country is giving me a reason to vote for him

Every election cycle, regardless of who wins, there have been a small group of people who make headlines for saying "If person XYZ gets elected I'm leaving. They never do. That's a really dumb reason to choose a candidate because it just justifies their cheap publicity grab.
 
L-188
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:29 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 188):
Only those who like what they see here should vote Republican...

You might want to read the book, "Lying with Statistics" before you put any weight behind that chart.
 
Rara
Topic Author
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:29 pm

I thought this was an interesting and very readable article about the Trump phenomenon:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-donald-trump-unstoppable-20160224

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 187):
Only those who like what they see here should vote Republican...

What's the Y axis? Percentage of what?
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 1305
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:31 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 197):
You might want to read the book, "Lying with Statistics" before you put any weight behind that chart.

I won't read any books, nothing will change my mind. I live here and I can see that social inequality is a real problem, even Warren Buffet recognizes the problem, remember when he said that his secretary was on a higher tax bracket than himself!


Quoting Rara (Reply 198):
What's the Y axis? Percentage of what?

Income growth.

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