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mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:03 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 445):
ou're right. The reasons dreamed up to invade Iraq were dishonest to say the least. Much points to GWB finishing off what his daddy didn't do.

Many other people looked at the same intelligence GWB looked at and voted to go. This is embarrassing to many people who would like to jump on that bandwagon, such as Hillary, but cannot because they saw the same things Bush saw.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 445):
In all honesty, GWB was facing a very difficult problem - withdrawing all the troops and letting mayhem spring up in Iraq, status quo, or putting as many troops there as it is needed to provide security.

This statement lacks follow-through. Obama vacated Iraq, he even gave up airbases in the desert that were meant to hold some stabilizing forces long term. ISIS may have been created in Fallujah (sort of) but they were able to spread because there was NOBODY there to stop them. Sorry, that was not GWB.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 447):
So none of those people were actually beaten up?

Looking at the videos and comments quoted on CNN, it appears the protesters are the ones looking for trouble. Unless CNN is in on the 'Trump media worship'.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 448):
We've got a government that won power something like eight years ago, and they still manager to blame the previous government for the issues they've got.

Oh, you've noticed that too? It is all Bush's fault.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 427):
The question was about Obama's actions making the West less secure. You answered Libya. How many times has Libya attacked or tried to invade the West? Qaddafi helped fund the Lockerbie bombing, yes. But, since regime change, how is the West less secure when it comes to Libya? You answered a question but did not think about it.

I have a feeling we are going to get the stock right-wing "Benghazi" answer which has already been investigated and closed.

So, you still need to answer the question about how Obama has made the West less secure?

Most consider Europe to be "West". Why don't you spend a little time asking them if they feel more secure with ISIS parked a boat ride away, making threats and flooding their shores with refugees.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:06 pm

I am voting for Trump in early voting today here in Florida>
 
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seb146
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:57 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 450):
Obama vacated Iraq, he even gave up airbases in the desert that were meant to hold some stabilizing forces long term. ISIS may have been created in Fallujah (sort of) but they were able to spread because there was NOBODY there to stop them. Sorry, that was not GWB.

Wasn't it Bush who decided to pull troops out AFTER he left office? Blame the next guy for failings and not what Bush wanted.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq

From the article:

On 14 December 2008 then-President George W. Bush signed the security agreement with Iraq. to draw down troops from Iraq.

But, tell me how it is Obama's fault?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 450):
Oh, you've noticed that too? It is all Bush's fault.

The billions in debt? The economic crash? Yeah... it HAD to be Obama's fault! It happened in 2008 or before, so it could only be Obama's fault. Who else could it be?
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Aesma
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:20 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 414):
Honestly people/posters in the US shouldn't give a F*** what foreigners think about our politics. They do not live here they do not have a vote. Most (not all) of the posters on this forum that offer up an opinion on US politics have a bias that likely will not change regardless of who we elect. There are a certain few posters who have aggressively negative attitudes towards US politics and those won't change. That is not a justification to vote for Trump. The US should do what the US thinks is in its best interest if other countries don't like it that's fine. As a US citizen I don't expect or want other countries' voters or government to go against their own best interest as well.

Well as long as the US has fingers in our pies we'll continue to care. Millions of refugees going our way, thanks to you, just as an example.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 450):
This statement lacks follow-through. Obama vacated Iraq, he even gave up airbases in the desert that were meant to hold some stabilizing forces long term. ISIS may have been created in Fallujah (sort of) but they were able to spread because there was NOBODY there to stop them. Sorry, that was not GWB.

The government you put in place didn't want you there anymore.

ISIS was created the day Bush decided to disband Iraq's military.
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LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 426):
That was not the question, was it. You asked, I answered. If you don't want to hear the answer, you should not ask the question.

The problem is your answer has no bearing in reality. If Obama had done nothing Libya would still be a mess. It would probably resemble Syria. Qaddafi would have control of Tripoli and some of the surrounding area and not much else. Various rebel factions would be fighting him along with each other and groups like ISIS would enter the fray.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:46 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 450):
ISIS may have been created in Fallujah (sort of) but they were able to spread because there was NOBODY there to stop them. Sorry, that was not GWB.

Yes it was. No 2003 invasion, no ISIS.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
GDB
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:38 am

While the rubes who brought into the whole 'Saddam had a hand in 9/11' and similar BS (copyright Dick Cheney), won't ever grasp it, one thing to know about the late Iraqi dictator was he allowed NO opposition, especially Islamist based.
There could be no Al Queda in Iraq, when he was in charge.
So no morphing into ISIS either.

The financial crash happened in the autumn of 2008, though the signs were there a year or so before, just when one Donald Trump was launching another no doubt tremendous business, in the real estate market, as he said, it was never a better time to start this business up.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:09 am

I still just don't know. I'm having issues with both parties, can't stand the overkill of Political Correctness and definitely flip the bird at both the Dems and Repub elites. If you think they (elites both parties) have your back well, then I just seen Elvis flying on the Concorde. I feel we need a street fighter in the White House but, frown upon the blanket stereotyping of certain groups. It's going to come down to: VP running mates, shape of the nation at election time. And, if Hillary gets her ass handed to her (E-Mail scandal) and Bernie runs out of hot air then, I'd probably vote my party (Democrat) But, that's a lot of what if's. Trump I feel is an opportunist which is a keen sense of intuition, no matter what you think of him. If say we were ending 8 years of McCain or 4 of Mitt, the Donald would have run as a Democrat. And there you have it.
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Aaron747
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:27 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 455):
Yes it was. No 2003 invasion, no ISIS.

This is not even a matter of dispute. Almost every ME analyst reaches the same conclusion, just in different words.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:28 am

I keep wondering this:

People praise Trump for speaking his mind. Obama speaks his mind and those same people tell him to shut up because no one wants to hear it.

Why is it okay for one and not the other, aside from the obvious?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
coolian2
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:30 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 450):
Oh, you've noticed that too? It is all Bush's fault.

It's what you inherit. Obama has done a big rescue job - whereas my country is being run into the ground and it appears the time/space continuum has broken to explain when things went wrong.
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LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 458):
This is not even a matter of dispute. Almost every ME analyst reaches the same conclusion, just in different words.

Don't tell that to the Fox News/talk radio crowd.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
afcjets
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:57 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 459):
I keep wondering this:People praise Trump for speaking his mind. Obama speaks his mind and those same people tell him to shut up because no one wants to hear it.Why is it okay for one and not the other, aside from the obvious?

Not everyone, in fact I think more people resent that he speaks his mind. All of the political class and at least half of the country want DT to shut up or at least filter what he says. Did you not see all the protestors in Chicago?

[Edited 2016-03-12 20:59:55]
 
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seb146
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:13 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 462):
in fact I think more people resent that he speaks his mind

Many people loved it. Some still do.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 462):
Did you not see all the protestors in Chicago?

I would say that is a product of his speaking his mind.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MSPNWA
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:12 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 459):
Why is it okay for one and not the other, aside from the obvious?

Obama doesn't sound like a man speaking his mind. He sounds like a robot. He talks like a politician. People want someone that sounds like a real human. Someone they relate to. Someone real. Trump is that breath of fresh air. I don't like Trump as a person, and his values don't fit mine as well as Cruz. But he will probably get my vote because he does not act like a politician. He sounds like a real human. Cruz has lost my vote because of the opposite.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:24 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):

Obama doesn't sound like a man speaking his mind. He sounds like a robot. He talks like a politician. People want someone that sounds like a real human. Someone they relate to. Someone real. Trump is that breath of fresh air. I don't like Trump as a person, and his values don't fit mine as well as Cruz. But he will probably get my vote because he does not act like a politician. He sounds like a real human. Cruz has lost my vote because of the opposite.

If Trump sounds like a real human, after all what has happened recently, then I'm sorry, but you are just so lost....
 
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scbriml
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:06 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
Someone they relate to.

So how, exactly, does the average working (or not working) Joe relate to the billionaire Trump? They don't, they just want to hear someone say all the things they want to hear:

"Let's make America great again!"
"We're going to build a wall and get Mexico to pay for it."
"We're not going to let any Muslims into America."

Let's not worry about the minor details of how we're actually going to do those things. U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!
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seb146
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:07 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
But he will probably get my vote because he does not act like a politician

And that is the problem. People can speak their mind. No one has a problem with that. However, politicians living in a "free" society need to not speak their minds like that. Politicians need to understand there is more to this planet than white Christian Americans. If Trump were not running and saying the same things, the rest of us would be eating it up. But, that he is running scares the hell out of us.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
Obama doesn't sound like a man speaking his mind.

How so? When he is giving a prepared speech or when he is speaking off-the-cuff? Because, as I said, he has to speak knowing he wants to piss off as few people as possible. Even when talking about the murder of children or poisoning water or allowing another country to build an oil pipe on American soil or whatever.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LMP737
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:52 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
But he will probably get my vote because he does not act like a politician. He sounds like a real human. Cruz has lost my vote because of the opposite.

Facts say otherwise. When you listen to him talk you realize he sounds just like a politician. The worst kind though. The kind of politician that plays on peoples fear and ignorance.

Like a lot of politicians he flip flops on issues according to which way the wind is blowing. Just look at his changing positions on marriage, Iraq, gun control, abortion etc. He will tailor his message to whatever crowd he's speaking to at that moment. Look at his comments regarding the Paris attack. What kind of crowd do you think he was talking to?
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Mortyman
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 468):
Facts say otherwise. When you listen to him talk you realize he sounds just like a politician. The worst kind though. The kind of politician that plays on peoples fear and ignorance.

Like a lot of politicians he flip flops on issues according to which way the wind is blowing. Just look at his changing positions on marriage, Iraq, gun control, abortion etc. He will tailor his message to whatever crowd he's speaking to at that moment. Look at his comments regarding the Paris attack. What kind of crowd do you think he was talking to?

Just like most politicians he also has plans that are unrealistic, like building this wall against Mexico and deporting some 11 million people ...

Mexico is naturally not gonna pay for such a wall and even if so, how would such a thing be built ? It would be a hell of a long wall, through very difficult terains, passing through among other things, the Rio Grand ... Proabably easier to move some 300 million Americans to Mars ...

Deporting 11 million people would demand cooperation from the countries you are gonna deport them to. Good luck with that !

Leaving NATO would have serious impact not only for Europe but also the USA. You will loose alot of inteligence apparateus to name one thing. It would also mean that your allies would be less likely to help out in missions abroad and less likely to buy American millitary equipment.

Leaving the UN would mean that the US would loose the little credibility and morale that is left.


As with most politicians, Trumph is promosing too much. Promises that he will not be able to keep

[Edited 2016-03-13 10:11:06]

[Edited 2016-03-13 10:12:56]
 
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OA412
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:45 pm

Here's a rather good article about a speech Obama gave in which he pretty well summed up Trump's rise. The whole notion currently being peddled by some Republicans that Trump's rise is Obama's fault is ludicrous. Their policies and talking points over the last few decades ensured his rise, not to mention most of what has made Trump popular, the GOP's attacks on educated elites, science, women, minorities, reason, and common sense, long predates Obama's presidency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...sment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 458):
This is not even a matter of dispute. Almost every ME analyst reaches the same conclusion, just in different words.

   At the time, many of us warned of the rise of Islamic extremism as a consequence of the Iraq War, but were shouted down by those calling us un-American and anti-military. It didn't exactly take a huge leap of faith to see that an ISIS-like organization would form in response to the invasion of Iraq. In fact, some of you may remember the posters of Bin Laden as Uncle Sam saying "I want YOU to invade Iraq."

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
People want someone that sounds like a real human.

Really? Are the people with whom you associate on a regular basis also loud-mouthed, think-skinned, bigots?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
Someone they relate to. Someone real.

How can the vast majority of Americans relate to Trump? Most of us are not billionaires. Most of us didn't inherit daddy's fortune. Most of us choose to associate with good people, not obnoxious racists.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
Trump is that breath of fresh air.

Sure he is.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 466):

Exactly.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 469):
Just like most politicians he also has plans that are unrealistic, like building this wall against Mexico and deporting some 11 million people ...

And Trump supporters in this very thread have acknowledged they don't actually believe he'll build a wall, they just like the fact that he has the balls to say it. So when you admit some of your candidate's ideas are pie in the sky, why do you continue to support him knowing he's going to renege on campaign promises?
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MSPNWA
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:33 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 465):
If Trump sounds like a real human, after all what has happened recently, then I'm sorry, but you are just so lost....

He talks like someone who lives in my culture.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 466):
So how, exactly, does the average working (or not working) Joe relate to the billionaire Trump? They don't, they just want to hear someone say all the things they want to hear:

Those are the feelings of the people I meet on a daily basis. We want a great America again. We want a secure border. We want to be careful with letting in immigrants that not only don't want to assimilate into this culture, but want to harm people. The vast majority of people are tired of politicians not delivering (look at the Congress approval ratings). Many don't want another one. And I don't either. I'll take my chances on Trump, since I can be fairly assured that another politician won't do the job. He's not an ideal candidate, and I don't hear anybody saying he is, but it's a chance many are willing to take.

Details? The details of building the wall are out there. Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it. Engineering capability is not an issue. The only obstacle is politics. And that's sad and disgusting. So many people and politicians want to reward law-breakers. A country without borders and without enforced laws is not a country. People against secure borders and enforcing immigration laws are traitors to their country. Period.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 467):
And that is the problem. People can speak their mind. No one has a problem with that. However, politicians living in a "free" society need to not speak their minds like that. Politicians need to understand there is more to this planet than white Christian Americans. If Trump were not running and saying the same things, the rest of us would be eating it up. But, that he is running scares the hell out of us.

Are you saying Trump is speaking like this for the white Christian vote? Or do you mean the others are?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 467):
How so? When he is giving a prepared speech or when he is speaking off-the-cuff? Because, as I said, he has to speak knowing he wants to piss off as few people as possible. Even when talking about the murder of children or poisoning water or allowing another country to build an oil pipe on American soil or whatever.

Do you listen to him? Do you watch his speeches? He can barely get a word out without a teleprompter in his face telling him what to say. He's incapable of having a spontaneous conversation to the press. Bush was the same way. Many federal politicians are too. They're robots once they attain office.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):

He talks like someone who lives in my culture.

What is your culture, exactly? Is it the one that is referred to here: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...Death-anxieties-and-strict-fathers ?
 
Mir
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 464):
People want someone that sounds like a real human. Someone they relate to. Someone real. Trump is that breath of fresh air.

If people are relating to Trump, that's a bad sign. The guy is a fraudster who talks a good game but has absolutely nothing to back it up with, and he'll gladly screw over anyone and everyone, including his supporters, in order to make a buck (only to lose it later because he has no bite to back up his bark). He doesn't give a crap about the people of this country. All he cares about is his ego.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
The vast majority of people are tired of politicians not delivering (look at the Congress approval ratings).

From 2010 to 2014 the number of Republicans in the Senate grew by 13, and the number of Republicans in the House grew by 68. So if Republicans don't like the people in Congress, perhaps they should look themselves in the mirror and ask why they put them there.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
The details of building the wall are out there. Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

No it would not. Mexico has already said they're not paying for the wall, and we can't dip into their bank account.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Do you listen to him? Do you watch his speeches? He can barely get a word out without a teleprompter in his face telling him what to say. He's incapable of having a spontaneous conversation to the press.

Some of his best work is spontaneous, actually. He's had some rough moments there, as does everyone, but he's very capable of being thoughtful and substantive with the press (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUuVhGHqZoc ).

Trump's rhetoric, on the other hand, is just a bunch of repetition with no substance.

-Mir
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Scorpio
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
He's not an ideal candidate, and I don't hear anybody saying he is, but it's a chance many are willing to take.

It doesn't bother you that he's a serial liar who changes his mind about just about anything at the drop of a hat? Or that this man has repeatedly demonstrated that he has incredibly thin skin and handles any kind of criticism by viciously attacking the person who DARED to criticize him, often through direct insults? Ever think about what will happen when he continues doing this when in office, and starts insulting other countries and their leaders? It doesn't make you stand still and think when you hear this man wants to curtail the freedom of the press, and has directly advocated war crimes and torture?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Do you listen to him? Do you watch his speeches? He can barely get a word out without a teleprompter in his face telling him what to say. He's incapable of having a spontaneous conversation to the press. Bush was the same way. Many federal politicians are too. They're robots once they attain office.

And Trump will either be the same, OR he will rapidly manage to isolate the US from the rest of the world by shooting off his filthy mouth the way he's been doing in the campaign, seriously damaging the reputation of the US abroad, and the US economy and its security.

Be VERY careful what you wish for. Politicians are careful about what they say and how they say it for a reason.
 
Mortyman
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:44 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it

How ? It's a fantasy

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
The vast majority of people are tired of politicians not delivering (look at the Congress approval ratings). Many don't want another one. And I don't either. I'll take my chances on Trump

Trumph dos'nt seem to be populare among the political elite on either side of the isle in the US. How is he supposed to get things done ? While the politicians in the US might not be to your liking, Trumph will have to deal with them. Running a country, is not a one man show ... Unless he is going for a dictatorship kind of thing ...
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 475):
Running a country, is not a one man show ... Unless he is going for a dictatorship kind of thing ...

Maybe he is....and that's why he needs to be stopped now.
 
mham001
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:47 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 452):
Wasn't it Bush who decided to pull troops out AFTER he left office? Blame the next guy for failings and not what Bush wanted.....

Your source seems to ignore all news after 2008....

10/15/2011 03:09 pm ET | Updated Dec 15, 2011
BAGHDAD -- The U.S. is abandoning plans to keep U.S. troops in Iraq past a year-end withdrawal deadline, The Associated Press has learned. The decision to pull out fully by January will effectively end more than eight years of U.S. involvement in the Iraq war, despite ongoing concerns about its security forces and the potential for instability.

The decision ends months of hand-wringing by U.S. officials over whether to stick to a Dec. 31 withdrawal deadline that was set in 2008 or negotiate a new security agreement to ensure that gains made and more than 4,400 American military lives lost since March 2003 do not go to waste.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...ithdrawal-us-troops_n_1012661.html

There was plenty of talk by Obama about extending their stay, things changed between 2008 and 2011.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 453):
Well as long as the US has fingers in our pies we'll continue to care. Millions of refugees going our way, thanks to you, just as an example.

Yea, you might want to check Europe's history in the region with it's willy-nilly map making. I see you are also dismissing responsibility for Libya. After the experience in Iraq, that is inexcusable.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 454):
The problem is your answer has no bearing in reality. If Obama had done nothing Libya would still be a mess. It would probably resemble Syria. Qaddafi would have control of Tripoli and some of the surrounding area and not much else. Various rebel factions would be fighting him along with each other and groups like ISIS would enter the fray.

BS. Khadaffi had been suppressing Islamists based in Benghazi for decades, some of them the exact same people who led the charge that convinced the Brits and France to kill him. You show clear lack of historical knowledge.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 455):
Yes it was. No 2003 invasion, no ISIS.

The roots of ISIS were there before GWB became president but no doubt, losing Saddam gave them ample opportunities. So why is that ok for you when Obama helps do the same in Libya?

Quoting GDB (Reply 456):

While the rubes who brought into the whole 'Saddam had a hand in 9/11' and similar BS (copyright Dick Cheney), won't ever grasp it, one thing to know about the late Iraqi dictator was he allowed NO opposition, especially Islamist based.
There could be no Al Queda in Iraq, when he was in charge.
So no morphing into ISIS either.

I agree with this.

Now, the question is why your country and France led the charge to do the exact same thing in Libya? And then did not even pretend to try to help them after the fact. Where is your outrage?
 
photopilot
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:22 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
We want a great America again.

You want a great America. Well how about starting with Universal single-payer health care so not a single American lacks the basic human right of healthcare.
You want a great America, well how about looking beyond your borders and realizing that you Americans are NOT special, are NOT the greatest, are NOT the only people on this planet. Start accepting the value and values of others.
You want a great America, well how about all Americans stop buying Chinese junk in your stores. Realize and SUPPORT American manufacturing and American jobs. Sure it might cost a few pennies more but when is American going to re-discover it's Social Conscience and realize that if you want a great America, you have to first support American jobs.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
We want a secure border.

Really??? All the walls in the world won't stop PROFIT DRIVEN immigrant smuggling and human trafficking. As long as you have waterfront coastlines you're going to have go-fast boats smuggling people into the USA for the huge profits involved.
Oh, and while you're at it.... you can control immigrant smuggling by STOPPING the Americans that are happy to employ a low-wage illegal immigrant instead of a legal American. Those rich folks that hire un-documented nannies, gardeners, handymen, field workers, etc because you can save a few dollars (that profit motive again) over hiring an American citizen.

You want a great America...... then get Americans to take those jobs and pay a fair and reasonable wage for them.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
We want to be careful with letting in immigrants that not only don't want to assimilate into this culture, but want to harm people.

Really #2??? How about you also worry about Americans like Timothy McVeigh, Bruce Ivans, Scott Roeder , Dylann Roof, Elliot Rodger, Aaron Alexis, Adam Lanza, James Holmes, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, etc, etc, etc...... AMERICANS, ONE AND ALL!!!!

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
The details of building the wall are out there. Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

Former Mexican president Vicente Fox has given an uncompromising response to Republican frontrunner Donald Trump’s plans to make Mexico pay for a wall along the US border with Mexico. “I’m not going to pay for that f*cking wall." If you think it's a simple matter to make Mexico pay for it, you've been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
People against secure borders and enforcing immigration laws are traitors to their country.

The USA wouldn't survive without immigration. Period!!!! Isolationism is the stupidest idea that a country can have.
 
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:00 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 474):
Politicians are careful about what they say and how they say it for a reason.

Indeed. Otherwise you end up with someone like Trump who appears to change his position on every issue depending on which way the wind is blowing.
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:11 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
We want a great America again.

The main things wrong with America right now are exactly the things that Trump stands for: the bullying, the unreasonable fear and xenophobia, the racism, the violence-will-solve-everything culture, the rich get richer business ethics (or lack thereof).

You've been sold a pack of lies by a master of the art.

It's bad enough that the man is not fit for office; the worst part is that I don't think he knows any other way to operate. The Presidency is not a kingship or a dictatorship, although sometimes you have to wonder what people think they are electing. It's not some sort of high level real estate deal. Trump will be bad for the economy and much worse for our national security. He'll be unable to deliver on any one of his bully-boy promises and it will just piss of the rest of the world. We'll be lucky to escape a Trump presidency without a major war.
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:00 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Do you listen to him? Do you watch his speeches? He can barely get a word out without a teleprompter in his face telling him what to say.

Oh man, it's been so long since I'd heard it, I'd forgotten the whole teleprompter business. IMO it's a ridiculous accusation since he's quite able to speak eloquently off the cuff. I'd also suggest that teleprompter or not, I'm not quite sure what impresses people about Trump. There's no substance to anything he says.

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
If people are relating to Trump, that's a bad sign.

Indeed.

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
The guy is a fraudster who talks a good game but has absolutely nothing to back it up with, and he'll gladly screw over anyone and everyone, including his supporters, in order to make a buck

Exactly. He couldn't care less about the people supporting him right now and will throw them under the bus at the first opportunity if it means making a little money or boosting his own ego.

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
He doesn't give a crap about the people of this country. All he cares about is his ego.

This. That really is all he cares about.

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
From 2010 to 2014 the number of Republicans in the Senate grew by 13, and the number of Republicans in the House grew by 68. So if Republicans don't like the people in Congress, perhaps they should look themselves in the mirror and ask why they put them there.

Fascinating isn't it? So many GOP supporters slam the establishment, yet they keep reelecting them. It all comes down to voting for any Republican, no matter how bad rather than be a "traitorous RINO" and vote for a Democrat.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

   What in the world makes you think it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it? Mexico is a sovereign country. They'll just turn right around and tell us if we want to secure our border, we can pay for our damn wall ourselves. And if you think Mexico doesn't have a leg to stand on because the vast majority of illegal or undocumented immigrants in this country are from Mexico, I'd suggest you're wrong. Mexico can point to the fact that we gladly employ undocumented immigrants in low-wage jobs Americans refuse to do, and that Republicans are just as happy about that as anyone in spite of the rhetoric they spout to win over anti-immigration voters.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
A country without borders and without enforced laws is not a country. People against secure borders and enforcing immigration laws are traitors to their country. Period.

I'll take that under advisement.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 474):

I agree with everything you've said. One other thing about Trump and his supporters that I haven't seen brought up and that bears mentioning is that so much of his candidacy and appeal is based on the idea of victimhood. These are mostly straight, white, Christian men angry because they feel they've become the put-upon minority in this country. Never mind how ludicrous that is, what I find most interesting is that this is the same lot who emphatically tells anyone with any actual minority claim they need to stop being oversensitive and stop using the race (or woman or gay or what have you) card all the time. These are the one group in this country that has NEVER faced one bit of institutionalized discrimination, yet here we are. At its core, his appeal is based not just on living in an America that exists only in their imaginations, but on hypocrisy.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 478):
You want a great America. Well how about starting with Universal single-payer health care so not a single American lacks the basic human right of healthcare.

Funny isn't it? I have a very difficult time understanding the Republican mindset. It is supposedly the party of Christian values, yet they would rather see people die in the street than enact something as "Communistic" as universal healthcare. They vehemently oppose abortion, yet are staunch supporters of the death penalty. I could go on, but I'll just say none of it makes any sense to me.

And let's be honest, the America they want to go back to was a horrible place for anyone other than straight, white, Christian males. It was an America in which the South was segregated, where gays lived deep inside the closet, and where women only spoke when spoken to.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 478):
You want a great America, well how about all Americans stop buying Chinese junk in your stores. Realize and SUPPORT American manufacturing and American jobs. Sure it might cost a few pennies more but when is American going to re-discover it's Social Conscience and realize that if you want a great America, you have to first support American jobs.

A little over ten years ago, I worked in retail selling linens. I started just after the last American bedding manufacturer went bankrupt because they couldn't compete against foreign-manufactured goods. I'd get customers complaining about the quality of Pakistani-made linens, yet these same customers refused to spend the extra amount of money to buy American...

Quoting PITingres (Reply 480):
The main things wrong with America right now are exactly the things that Trump stands for: the bullying, the unreasonable fear and xenophobia, the racism, the violence-will-solve-everything culture, the rich get richer business ethics (or lack thereof).

  

Quoting PITingres (Reply 480):
You've been sold a pack of lies by a master of the art.


  
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

Simple? How exactly?   
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:22 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 482):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

Simple? How exactly?

He's planning on getting Trump to say "Please".            
 
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:06 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
The details of building the wall are out there. Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

No it would not. Mexico has already said they're not paying for the wall, and we can't dip into their bank account.

He could cut foreign aid to Mexico, which is around half a billion US dollars a year, and use that money over an extended period of time if he was really ruthless. So, in a sense, Mexico would be paying for the wall.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 474):
It doesn't bother you that he's a serial liar who changes his mind about just about anything at the drop of a hat?

Aren't ALL politicians???

That's the problem.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 474):
Politicians are careful about what they say and how they say it for a reason.

Yes, ALL politicians  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 482):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Money is not a problem (it's a drop in the bucket of the annual spending), and it would be simple to make Mexico pay for it.

Simple? How exactly?

Ruthlessly use the foreign aid money to Mexico.

Anyway, I don't believe the wall will happen, and I also don't believe there will be free college education if Sanders wins.
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 465):
If Trump sounds like a real human, after all what has happened recently, then I'm sorry, but you are just so lost....

Trump sounds DIFFERENT than all the other politicians. He has emotion in his speeches, he makes what are very obviously un-rehearsed statements (many outrageous but that's beside the point).

To much of the voting population, Trump is interesting to listen to. He isn't boring repeating the same old bland statements like other politicians.

Trump is much more 'human' sounding than any other candidate. Note - I DID NOT SAY he is saying good things, realistic things, or even things which are not utter BS. He talks like a lot of real people. At least one heck of a lot more like real people than Cruz, Rubio, Sanders or Hillary.

And Donald Trump has always talked like that. He hasn't changed, gotten politically correct, or become concerned about getting the facts straight or being consistent. Donald today is the same as the Donald trying to keep his bankrupt casino open.


---------------

My personal opinion is that Donald Trump sounds like a self-promoting reality TV 'star' trying to keep the 'brand' going.

Oh, wait - that's what Donald Trump really is.

------------------

Note that we have a thread approaching 500 posts, even after moderators have deleted some of the most outrageous/ offensive posts - about what Donald Trump is saying.

The last thread I saw on another current presidential candidate didn't make 100 posts, and his proposal was more unrealistic, xenophobic, impossible - than most of Trump's statements.

[Edited 2016-03-13 19:36:46]
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:30 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 428):
The winner would then go head to head with the only Democrat nominee, none other than, Jerry! Jerry! Jerry Springer!

I think before long the debates will start resembling the Jerry Springer show anyway. It's only a few steps from "my dick is bigger than yours" to a full on fist fight.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 484):
He could cut foreign aid to Mexico, which is around half a billion US dollars a year, and use that money over an extended period of time if he was really ruthless.

So if he does that over about 35 years, he might have enough to pay the estimated 17 billion dollars required to build the thing. Whoopee.

Now where does the money come from to guard it? I believe the Mexicans may be familiar with the concept of ladders and shovels.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 484):
Aren't ALL politicians???

That's the problem.

Not to nearly the extent Trump does. I've never heard Clinton suggest a flat tax, or Cruz suggest a wealth tax. Trump has been for and against both.

Saying "all politicians are liars, so I'm going to vote for the biggest liar of them all" does not make a whole lot of sense.

Have you ever stopped to ask why it is that politicians generally DON'T "speak their mind" like Trump does?
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:01 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 477):
Your source seems to ignore all news after 2008....

Because I was talking about the Bush Administration making deals with Iraq. But, go ahead and keep blaming Obama for things that Bush did.....

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Are you saying Trump is speaking like this for the white Christian vote? Or do you mean the others are?

At first, it seems that Trump was simply planting the seeds. Now, he is watching his puppets dance and Trump can not get enough of his ego being stroked. Anything to stay in the news.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
Do you listen to him? Do you watch his speeches? He can barely get a word out without a teleprompter in his face telling him what to say.

You are talking about prepared speeches. I am talking about off-the-cuff talks. I didn't like the attitude GWB had in h is voice when he was addressing the Press Corps. But, he was genuine. He was saying what was on his mind, but in a diplomatic way. Even if I did not agree with the words, he sounded genuine. Same with Obama, same with Clinton, same with GHWB, etc.

Trump, however, just likes the sound of his voice and the reaction of his minions to it, IMO.
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:39 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 484):
Aren't ALL politicians???

That's the problem.

Not to the extent Trump is. That guy rarely opens his mouth without lying. And research confirms that he lies FAR more often than any of the other candidates.

THAT is the problem.
 
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:40 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 469):
Just like most politicians he also has plans that are unrealistic, like building this wall against Mexico and deporting some 11 million people ...

Mexico is naturally not gonna pay for such a wall and even if so, how would such a thing be built ? It would be a hell of a long wall, through very difficult terains, passing through among other things, the Rio Grand ... Proabably easier to move some 300 million Americans to Mars ...

Deporting 11 million people would demand cooperation from the countries you are gonna deport them to. Good luck with that !

Leaving NATO would have serious impact not only for Europe but also the USA. You will loose alot of inteligence apparateus to name one thing. It would also mean that your allies would be less likely to help out in missions abroad and less likely to buy American millitary equipment.

Leaving the UN would mean that the US would loose the little credibility and morale that is left.


As with most politicians, Trumph is promosing too much. Promises that he will not be able to keep

All of these sound like liberal excuses for not having borders. You're buying right into talking points of globalists who benefit from uncontrolled migration. Nobody believes that all of 11 million illegals will be deported but tougher border and visa enforcement is a good start to have LEGAL immigration.

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
If people are relating to Trump, that's a bad sign. The guy is a fraudster who talks a good game but has absolutely nothing to back it up with, and he'll gladly screw over anyone and everyone, including his supporters, in order to make a buck (only to lose it later because he has no bite to back up his bark). He doesn't give a crap about the people of this country. All he cares about is his ego.

If people are relating to Bernie, that's a bad sign. The guy is a fraudster who talks a good game but has absolutely nothing to back it up with, and he'll gladly screw over anyone and everyone, including his supporters, in order to make a buck (only to lose it later because he has no bite to back up his bark). He doesn't give a crap about the people of this country. All he cares about is his ego.

Fixed that for you. Bernie is milking his supporters from donations knowing full well he has no chance of nomination. Can't trust a career politician who lived on welfare till he was 40.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 479):
Indeed. Otherwise you end up with someone like Trump who appears to change his position on every issue depending on which way the wind is blowing.

You spelled Hillary wrong.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 484):
He could cut foreign aid to Mexico, which is around half a billion US dollars a year, and use that money over an extended period of time if he was really ruthless. So, in a sense, Mexico would be paying for the wall.

  
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rfields5421
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
All of these sound like liberal excuses for not having borders.

Actually they were talking points from very conservative political leaders in the US in the 80s and 90s.

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
You're buying right into talking points of globalists who benefit from uncontrolled migration.

And the leading globalists in the US are conservative businessmen who support the Republican party. How they have become 'liberals' is beyond me.

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
Nobody believes that all of 11 million illegals will be deported but tougher border and visa enforcement is a good start to have LEGAL immigration.

I know several dozen people who literally believe that Trump will deport 11 million people within 60 days of becoming President. How the logistics of moving 183,333 people a day across the border would be accomplished is something they think Trump will handle.

Both they, and Trump, totally ignore the major impediment to massive deportation - what country will take them. Currently in order to deport someone, the US government must supply proof to the destination country that the person actually belongs in that country / is a citizen of that country.

Estimates of the illegals in the US from most sources say only a little over half the illegals are from Mexico.

From those from the countries of Central America/ South America are going to require special aircraft flights over Mexico to those countries. Mexico won't accept them.

There are over a million illegal Asians, many from China, in the US. Close to 3/4 of a million from Europe.

------------------

As I've said before - the answer to illegal aliens is to stop their ability to have jobs / make money. If they can't, they will leave/ stop coming here.

To do that we have to ENFORCE laws against companies and individuals who employ illegals.

--------------------

That includes stopping the practice of sub-contracting labor, and allowing the real employer to avoid responsibility. i.e. Almost every large big-box store sub-contracts out cleaning services. Those are largely illegals (at least in the Dallas area). If immigration comes to Walmart to check immigration status, they cannot go into the store, they have to wait in the parking lot for the employees to leave. Walmart and the local manager are shielded from any penalities because "it is the contractor responsibility".

The surest way to make it extremely difficult for illegals to work is to require positive proof of citizenship. That would mean an effective means of confirming identity from a nationwide database. i.e. a National Identity Card program. The conservatives HATE that idea, as to true liberals.

So there is ZERO chance that illegals will find it harder to work in the US, even if Trump is elected. Congress, and the business leaders, won't let him implement effective measures.

The two most recent Presidents who really understood both the issues with illegal immigration, and the critical need for those workers for the US economy were Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. President Reagan was able to push through a program to allow illegals with extended residence and no criminal record to eventually gain citizenship - Amnesty as some call it.

President G.W. Bush pushed for a program of temporary work visa's for lower skill jobs. Visa's that would make it possible for such workers to be in the US for six to 10 months a year, and go home to Mexico or other country for visits. To be able to return to the US easily and look for another job. He was shutdown by Republican party leaders.

(George W. Bush is the only President in recent history who actually can speak conversational Spanish - at least the Mexican version.)

[Edited 2016-03-14 07:29:56]
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Mortyman
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:20 pm

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
All of these sound like liberal excuses for not having borders. You're buying right into talking points of globalists who benefit from uncontrolled migration. Nobody believes that all of 11 million illegals will be deported but tougher border and visa enforcement is a good start to have LEGAL immigration.

I can assure you that I want borders and border control., that however does not exclude having a realistic approach to things...
 
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:26 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 484):
He could cut foreign aid to Mexico, which is around half a billion US dollars a year, and use that money over an extended period of time if he was really ruthless.

And Mexico just cuts that money out of their efforts against drug trafficking and you have the US public pay for the wall again. Half a Billion is peanuts.
That US consumers insist to poison themselves is much more a problem for Mexico, and a couple of other countries, than illegal immigration is for the US. I guess they´d have good arguments to turn the table on that talking point.

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
Can't trust a career politician who lived on welfare till he was 40.

Gerhard Schröder used to live of Wellfare and he is certainly one of the better regarded German politicians (only god knows why...)

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/g...r-waren-die-asozialen-1193698.html

The headline is probably something like "We were the entitled leaches"

So, why can´t you trust a person that knows how it feels to have no money? And that apparently got back on his feed, even though they may have taken long. I would certainly think it a good idea that everyone who wants to be elected at all has to live of welfare, spend time in prison, work in a nursing home and so on before they are even eligible to show up on the ballot.

best regards
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luckyone
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 471):
He talks like someone who lives in my culture.

I feel very sorry for the world in which you apparently live. I've lived in such a world and am much happier out of it, than in it. It's a small world inhabited by people with even smaller minds.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 481):
Oh man, it's been so long since I'd heard it, I'd forgotten the whole teleprompter business. IMO it's a ridiculous accusation since he's quite able to speak eloquently off the cuff. I'd also suggest that teleprompter or not, I'm not quite sure what impresses people about Trump. There's no substance to anything he says.

He's a marketing genius and an entertainer. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are both the result of our political system, particularly the presidency becoming basically a political American Idol. Both are an indictment of our education system, in that people apparently can't do math. Either that or we stopped paying people to push the collective "Think" button as a society. What you're seeing is people like to be entertained.
 
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 493):
particularly the presidency becoming basically a political American Idol.

Well, i guess even American Idol draws on a brighter audience:


best regards
Thomas
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StarAC17
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 473):
Some of his best work is spontaneous, actually. He's had some rough moments there, as does everyone, but he's very capable of being thoughtful and substantive with the press (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUuVhGHqZoc ).

Don't forget this!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 474):
It doesn't bother you that he's a serial liar who changes his mind about just about anything at the drop of a hat? Or that this man has repeatedly demonstrated that he has incredibly thin skin and handles any kind of criticism by viciously attacking the person who DARED to criticize him, often through direct insults? Ever think about what will happen when he continues doing this when in office, and starts insulting other countries and their leaders? It doesn't make you stand still and think when you hear this man wants to curtail the freedom of the press, and has directly advocated war crimes and torture?

Watch him go to the first G8 or G20 and has a disagreement with Angela Merkel or David Cameron I can see him taking to twitter and call her an old hag and come up with something personal to say to David Cameron.

If he does win I can see for the first time allied nations refusing entry of the US president. The UK is floating a petition to keep him out, Mexico probably won't want to deal with him and neither will any of the Arab states that have big business interests in the US.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 481):
I agree with everything you've said. One other thing about Trump and his supporters that I haven't seen brought up and that bears mentioning is that so much of his candidacy and appeal is based on the idea of victimhood. These are mostly straight, white, Christian men angry because they feel they've become the put-upon minority in this country.

That is the Bully mentality.

Ever stood up to a bully in the schoolyard? They immediately play the victim when you actually fight back and often you are deemed the aggressor and I see this in the media. Whenever someone calls Trump on his positions he attacks the pundit or the reporter personally and then he claims the liberal media is attacking him. I remember when Wolf Blitzer had Trump on several years ago about the birther movement (I think Trump thought the birth certificate was fake). Blitzer (whom is an incompetent dolt whom is unqualified for a real newsroom) called him on it and Trump went into a tirade that the media was in the tank for Obama.

I really wish for the days when news called BS BS without apology.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 485):
My personal opinion is that Donald Trump sounds like a self-promoting reality TV 'star' trying to keep the 'brand' going.

Oh, wait - that's what Donald Trump really is.

That is why it's so hard to bring him down.
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting AI121 (Reply 489):
If people are relating to Bernie, that's a bad sign. The guy is a fraudster who talks a good game but has absolutely nothing to back it up with

I agree that Bernie is setting unrealistic expectations of what he will be able to do in office. He would not be the first politician to do that. But he does not try and tell the people that he owns vineyards that he doesn't, that he has a steak company that he doesn't, that he has a magazine that he doesn't, or that his university is a quality institution when it clearly isn't. That is fraud, and blatant fraud at that. You don't see that from Bernie Sanders, or really any other candidate in the race.



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PITingres
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 491):
I can assure you that I want borders and border control., that however does not exclude having a realistic approach to things...

  

In addition, contrary to some opinions I've seen, illegal immigration is hardly the biggest problem the US faces. I would classify it as moderately important at best.

If one could magically stop all illegal immigation tomorrow, at zero cost, the consequences would still be massive. It would crater any number of business practices (as per rfields5421's discussion), raising costs significantly. Those costs would be passed along to the customer. I don't say this is necessarily a bad thing, at least not long term, but it's a thing and needs to be considered. Short term it's likely to put as many people out of work as into work. I get the impression that the more virulent anti-illegal crowd thinks that once illegal immigration is stopped, the sun will shine and everyone will sing happy days are here again. Like so many of these weird beliefs that today's Republicans are so fond of, it just ain't so.
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StarAC17
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:43 pm

Quoting PITingres (Reply 497):
In addition, contrary to some opinions I've seen, illegal immigration is hardly the biggest problem the US faces. I would classify it as moderately important at best.

  

Illegals are in the US because they are wanted.

The US will probably have another amnesty in the near future.
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seb146
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RE: So Who Of You Would Vote For Trump?

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 490):
The surest way to make it extremely difficult for illegals to work is to require positive proof of citizenship

There is a federal government program called eVerify where businesses can call into a data base and check the citizenship status of a potential hire. But, as you said, some of those businesses are sub contracted and do not use this system.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 490):
President Reagan was able to push through a program to allow illegals with extended residence and no criminal record to eventually gain citizenship

Obama wanted to do the exact same thing. Guess who was against it?
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