Sheesh, you'd think a mellow state like Kansas would be free of this sort of thing.
Not much is yet known...
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- ArmitageShanks
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
Can I get whoevers parking space that was the closest?
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- TheCommodore
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
It may be tough, but I have no sadness for this sort of thing anymore.Innocent people being murdered on a daily basis.
When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem
When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
Most of America, like you, are already desensitized to these occurrences. It's hard to take care of a problem when you don't have any feeling over it.
You would think the murder of innocent children at an elementary school (Sandy Hook) would have spurred some change, but it didn't do much at all. If that didn't get the gears going, I don't think anything will.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
We need them to protect ourselves from these madmen and our government.
Maybe his job was outsourced to China, or anywhere else. Just like Carrier just did last week.RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
I just can't recall gun violence ever being as frequent as it seems to have become ever since the movie theater shooting in Colorado...
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting Airstud (Reply 5): I just can't recall gun violence ever being as frequent as it seems to have become ever since the movie theater shooting in Colorado... |
Quite possible and as the sense of being wronged by your fellow citizens, your government, and corporations and so many social issues it will get worse. Too many lost souls out there.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4): Maybe his job was outsourced to China, or anywhere else. Just like Carrier just did last week. |
If that was the case the guy would have gone in and killed the CEO and Board Members.
All this is is another Second Amendment Event in America. It is the result of uncontrolled selling of guns without regard to the potential risks of the buyers.
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
Most rational people in this country would welcome politicians bringing some intelligent improvements to gun laws, but the money behind the NRA and gun manufacturers is far more important to politicians. For them it is always cash over country so we get out routine Second Amendment Events.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
Just a few more heroes sacrificed to honor the sanctity of the second amendment.
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- MaverickM11
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
Another NRA production...plus the Kalamazoo shootings last week and I think there was another one right before it. But seriously, all the victims should have been carrying to protect themselves when they were attacked out of the blue, especially that young girl at a Cracker Barrel 
This is how we get 'gun slingin' religion clingin'" people like Palin and Trump. You don't need science, reason, data, reality, or facts, you just need to believe in Jezus and gunz! They'll always save you.
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): It may be tough, but I have no sadness for this sort of thing anymore.Innocent people being murdered on a daily basis. |
This is how we get 'gun slingin' religion clingin'" people like Palin and Trump. You don't need science, reason, data, reality, or facts, you just need to believe in Jezus and gunz! They'll always save you.
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- Revelation
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
Lord knows.
| Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8): Just a few more heroes sacrificed to honor the sanctity of the second amendment. |
Yep.
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- MaverickM11
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
Oh look, it's this discussion again!
I'm sure it'll be just as enlightening and fruitful as all of the other gun-related discussions, and many new details will emerge that change people's opinions and results in real change.
Wait, no. We'll just have the conservative Americans and myself defending the practical and philosophical cases for the 2nd even as blood runs in the streets; the Australians being super arrogant and screaming "WE BANNED GUNS AND NOW NO ONE KILLS ANYONE LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER WE ARE," the liberal Americans being a bit more reasonable but still wasting their time arguing a position that is a political black hole; the Europeans and Canadians scratching their head at what seems really silly without understanding the political environment surrounding the laws; and a few moderates making some good points.
So let's all save each other a shit-ton of time and just read this truncated version on bash.org: http://bash.org/?23396
I'm sure it'll be just as enlightening and fruitful as all of the other gun-related discussions, and many new details will emerge that change people's opinions and results in real change.
Wait, no. We'll just have the conservative Americans and myself defending the practical and philosophical cases for the 2nd even as blood runs in the streets; the Australians being super arrogant and screaming "WE BANNED GUNS AND NOW NO ONE KILLS ANYONE LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER WE ARE," the liberal Americans being a bit more reasonable but still wasting their time arguing a position that is a political black hole; the Europeans and Canadians scratching their head at what seems really silly without understanding the political environment surrounding the laws; and a few moderates making some good points.
So let's all save each other a shit-ton of time and just read this truncated version on bash.org: http://bash.org/?23396
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
meh...
We just had three people randomly shot and killed in Kalamazoo the other day, didn't even make the news in most places. Guns are the thing. Don't mess with guns or the Bible here. If anyone tries, like letting the gays marry or having back ground checks or any regulations, that is unpatriotic. Let people die because 'Murica. Signed, the party who loves life and freedom for all.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
That's why I always keep blow darts on my person loaded with Poison Arrow toxin for just such an occurrence... 
Nothing crazy like arming everyone in the USA with a a gun like the NRA suggest.
Nothing crazy like arming everyone in the USA with a a gun like the NRA suggest.-
- WearyDrover
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- MaverickM11
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting opethfan (Reply 12): WE BANNED GUNS |
Ahhh the biggest myth in the world! NO, Australia did not ban all guns. What it did do was ban semi automatic and fully automatic guns. All guns must pass a committee before being sold here and every one must hold a firearms licence before obtaining a gun. It's isn't that hard and takes a week at most to get a license. I don't see why it's such a big deal.
| Quoting opethfan (Reply 12): NOW NO ONE KILLS ANYONE |
I know it's such a disgrace /s
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
So how many bit the bullet this time. Will the slaughter this year beat last years total, isn't it also about time for another cop shooting an unarmed black kid, it's been a while! 
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- Revelation
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting opethfan (Reply 12): a political black hole |
Yes, that's a perfect description. If Sandy Hook can't change minds, nothing can.
| Quoting QF29 (Reply 20): I don't see why it's such a big deal. |
Because a large number of people have their entire identity tied up in being a gun owner. They'd sooner change their sexual preference rather than see access to guns curtailed in any way.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting tz757300 (Reply 3): You would think the murder of innocent children at an elementary school (Sandy Hook) would have spurred some change, but it didn't do much at all. If that didn't get the gears going, I don't think anything will. |
I believe, after Sandy Hook, someone said something along the lines of "The gun debate is over. Once people determined that it was okay for kids to be murdered in school, the gun debate had ended." Sad but true.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22): Gun rights should be like any other right: if you want to take it away from someone you should have to get a ruling in court. |
Sure. That has nothing to do with the need to get a license, which doesn't involve the courts and can be easily justified on public safety grounds.
-Mir
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22): Gun rights should be like any other right: if you want to take it away from someone you should have to get a ruling in court. |
By getting people to take safety classes and being licenced, how is that taking rights away? I supposed my individual right to drive is being infringed upon by forcing me to know how to drive, know the rules of the road and carry insurance? So I don't kill anyone? That is what you are saying. You are saying it is perfectly legal for me to pilot a 380 full of passengers because that is my right.
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22): Because it restricts individual freedom. |
How? Go back and read what Australia actually did and not what NRA tells you.
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- af773atmsp
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
I'm interested in knowing how often this happens in Western Europe. Because some Americans believe that we just don't hear about the shootings in Europe.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 30): I'm interested in knowing how often this happens in Western Europe. Because some Americans believe that we just don't hear about the shootings in Europe. |
It's a rare as hens teeth. In the last nine years I've lived in Europe the only mass shootings I can think of are the Utoya Island massacre and the two incidents in Paris. Last year in Germany the police killed someone which I believe was the first death by cop in 5 years in Germany.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31): Last year in Germany the police killed someone which I believe was the first death by cop in 5 years in Germany |
Nah.. We usually end up between 5 and 10 people killed by cops/year. But accidental or unjustified shootings are extremely rare and many years pass without.
Best regards
Thomas
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
And for today's (26 Feb 16) mass shooting in the US, this time comes from Washington State
Belfair, Washington: 5 Killed, Including Shooter, on Property in Area, Report Says
The Mason County sheriff's office received a call Friday from a man saying he shot four people. Four bodies were found on the property, and the man shot himself in front of deputies, KING5 said.
Belfair, Washington: 5 Killed, Including Shooter, on Property in Area, Report Says
The Mason County sheriff's office received a call Friday from a man saying he shot four people. Four bodies were found on the property, and the man shot himself in front of deputies, KING5 said.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2): When is America, its people, going to wake up to its gun problem |
There is no gun problem,
It is sad your country gave up a basic civil right it makes Australia a lesser place to live
This thread is going to go down the same slope as all the other, stupid, facists anti-gun folks will complain about one of the great civil rights of this country for about 200 threads and then it will be locked because they have to insult those of us who support the right to bear arms cause..
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 35): It is sad your country gave up a basic civil right it makes Australia a lesser place to live |
Obviously you have ever lived there. I did for 8 years and the quality of life, education standards, medical care, etc. was as good as it gets.
And the changes in the gun laws was based on a mass shooting - just like we have here all the time (like 2 in the last 24 hours) - but they had the political wisdom to do something about it. But then their politicians are not the lapdogs of the NRA.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22): Gun rights should be like any other right: if you want to take it away from someone you should have to get a ruling in court. |
And until you can prove to a court, with data and evidence, that having guns in the hands of citizens poses a threat to the general population, that ruling will never come. It is impossible to prove, and you cannot statistically analyze the behavior of the entire gun-possessing population. You can look at how many of a given type of shooting are done with a given type of firearm, sure, but that's as far as it goes. That's what Europeans don't get about this issue within the American prism.
Then there's the Constitutional route, which is even less likely.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 35): It is sad your country gave up a basic civil right it makes Australia a lesser place to live |
My country is a lesser place to live just because civilians can't own a AR15?
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 35): There is no gun problem |
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting Mir (Reply 26): Sure. That has nothing to do with the need to get a license, |
Yes it does. If you are going to deny someone the right to possess a gun, then you are in essence pre-convicting them of a crime. Consequently there should be due process and a high burden of proof in order to do so.
If you want to keep someone from exercising their rights, then you should do so in court. If you can't then you had no business trying to stop them in the first place.
| Quoting seb146 (Reply 27): By getting people to take safety classes and being licenced, how is that taking rights away? |
Safety classes shouldn't be mandatory. It's a good idea but it's none of my business.
| Quoting seb146 (Reply 27): You are saying it is perfectly legal for me to pilot a 380 full of passengers because that is my right. |
No I'm not, and by the way, reading is a skill. Practice can help you.
| Quoting seb146 (Reply 27): How? |
Can an Australian own an AR-15?
| Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29): I don't believe BMI actually owns a gun, so why should he even care? |
I've never even fired anything bigger than a paintball gun.
That said, your line of logic is idiotic and dangerous. By that standard, only criminals should stand up for the Fourth and Fifth Amendments.
See it matters to me because I'm not a hypocrite. It's quite a contrast to the liberals who so often only stand up for the rights they care about but go scrambling for regulation any time anyone uses one of their rights in a way they disagree with.
| Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37): And until you can prove to a court, with data and evidence, that having guns in the hands of citizens poses a threat to the general population, that ruling will never come. |
Not even then, for the same reason you can't put thousands of people on trial for a crime. If you have evidence for why a specific person is likely to commit a crime if they have a gun then take it to court.
| Quoting QF29 (Reply 38): My country is a lesser place to live just because civilians can't own a AR15? |
Yes it is. Maybe not from your perspective since you have no interest in AR-15s, but from an objective viewpoint of "How many things is a citizen allowed to do legally" Australia is down one compared to the US.
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- WearyDrover
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 35): It is sad your country gave up a basic civil right it makes Australia a lesser place to live |
Lesser in what way?
Australians can and do obtain firearms quite legally, though all firearms must be licensed and registered, stored in a gun safe, the owner must show competence and need. These requirements are not as onorous as they may appear.
Figures published by the Australian Institute of Criminology indicated that over the past 25 years the homicide rate has fallen by 18%. The overall homicide rate at about 1.1 per 100,000 is higher than some European countries but well below that of the United States. Whether this is due to fewer people having access to guns can not be stated with certainty but equally, the possibility can't be excluded. In the absense of guns people reach for other weapons including knives, blunt instruments or even their hands and more than two thirds of all homicides in Australia occur through these means.
What we rarely see in Australia is multiple homicides of random individuals. More common are murder suicides where a man will kill wife and/or children against a background of marriage break-up. In rural areas this might involve using a sedative, placing the children into the car and driving into the farm dam. Drive by shootings are less common and usually restricted to gang-related disputes. Even terrorist related offences are rare. Since 1803 757 Australian police officers have been killed in the line of duty (including accidental deaths). The Officer Down Memorial in the US records close to that number since 2010 alone and 13 to date in 2016.
But this isn't a competition to see who can drink the most. Whether it is one person being killed or ten, whatever the weapon of choice, wherever the killing occurs (US or Australia) the families and friends of those who died are left with the pain and anguish.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): If you are going to deny someone the right to possess a gun, then you are in essence pre-convicting them of a crime. |
Not at all. You are just denying them the right to have a licensed gun.
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): If you want to keep someone from exercising their rights, then you should do so in court. |
How many people looking to buy a gun will want to pay for an attorney because they are denied a license. Should we have a mandatory trial for those denied? That will make the Average Joe happy when they get the lawyer's bill.
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): It's a good idea but it's none of my business. |
Until, of course, someone in your office accidentally discharges a gun. Are open carry guns allowed in your workplace? Do you wish they were
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41): Not at all. You are just denying them the right to have a licensed gun. |
Why would you deny someone the right to own a gun?
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41): How many people looking to buy a gun will want to pay for an attorney because they are denied a license. Should we have a mandatory trial for those denied? |
Give them due process and see. It should be the right of the applicant to have a court rule on their right to own a gun. If you want to keep someone from owning a gun you should have to get a court ruling, but not necessarily specific to weapons. It could be a restraining order or felony conviction.
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41): Are open carry guns allowed in your workplace? |
No but I work on private property. The owner of property should have complete freedom to deny entry to gun owners or frankly anyone else.
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41): Do you wish they were |
No, but just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's okay to make it illegal other than on my property.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): It's quite a contrast to the liberals who so often only stand up for the rights they care about but go scrambling for regulation any time anyone uses one of their rights in a way they disagree with. |
Funny how they constantly do that that eh?
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): Consequently there should be due process and a high burden of proof in order to do so. |
And that is why using the very inaccurate "No fly list' was such a bad idea. In fact in a case in Oregon it is very likely the entire list will be thrown out since there is currently no way to appeal a listing.
| Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 40): Australians can and do obtain firearms quite legally, though all firearms must be licensed and registered, stored in a gun safe, the owner must show competence and need. These requirements are not as onorous as they may appear. |
The hell that isn't onerous. I call the government choosing what you are allowed to possess slavery, sad so many Aussies are slaves to their government so willingly.
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41): How many people looking to buy a gun will want to pay for an attorney because they are denied a license. |
And the idea of using fiscal means to determine who can exercise a civil right rears it's ugly head.
So by your logic it is only the people with means that deserve to have civil rights?
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 7): If that was the case the guy would have gone in and killed the CEO and Board Members. |
I agree. It seems a violent person from way back. Weapons bought by an old girlfriend. Papers served on him that day I think. Off the deep end. Instead of workplace rage, rage at the system, kill anyone who he can. Another madmen. The CEO escaped this time.
| Quoting Ken777 (Reply 7): Most rational people in this country would welcome politicians bringing some intelligent improvements to gun laws, but the money behind the NRA and gun manufacturers is far more important to politicians. For them it is always cash over country so we get out routine Second Amendment Events. |
I most certainly agree.
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42): Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):Not at all. You are just denying them the right to have a licensed gun.Why would you deny someone the right to own a gun?Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):How many people looking to buy a gun will want to pay for an attorney because they are denied a license. Should we have a mandatory trial for those denied? Give them due process and see. It should be the right of the applicant to have a court rule on their right to own a gun. If you want to keep someone from owning a gun you should have to get a court ruling, but not necessarily specific to weapons. It could be a restraining order or felony conviction.Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):Are open carry guns allowed in your workplace?No but I work on private property. The owner of property should have complete freedom to deny entry to gun owners or frankly anyone else.Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):Do you wish they were No, but just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's okay to make it illegal other than on my property. |
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 43): Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):It's quite a contrast to the liberals who so often only stand up for the rights they care about but go scrambling for regulation any time anyone uses one of their rights in a way they disagree with.Funny how they constantly do that that eh?Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):Consequently there should be due process and a high burden of proof in order to do so.And that is why using the very inaccurate "No fly list' was such a bad idea. In fact in a case in Oregon it is very likely the entire list will be thrown out since there is currently no way to appeal a listing.Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 40):Australians can and do obtain firearms quite legally, though all firearms must be licensed and registered, stored in a gun safe, the owner must show competence and need. These requirements are not as onorous as they may appear.The hell that isn't onerous. I call the government choosing what you are allowed to possess slavery, sad so many Aussies are slaves to their government so willingly.Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):How many people looking to buy a gun will want to pay for an attorney because they are denied a license.And the idea of using fiscal means to determine who can exercise a civil right rears it's ugly head.So by your logic it is only the people with means that deserve to have civil rights? |
Just my 2 cents as a Canadian. I wouldn't call myself a gun enthusiast, but I've gone out shooting before with friends and it's a great way to spend a day.
However,
and this seems to come up in every one of these gun threads, but you seem to be arguing that regulating guns is a bad thing. I like the analogy to cars. No one is preventing you from owning/renting/operating a vehicle, provided you have the necessary training and experience (ie a license) to operate said motor vehicle and abiding by the local/federal road rules. I see gun ownership as the same thing. I have no problems at all if you want to own a gun. I won't get into whether or not one should be allowed to own an AR-15, that's a different discussion. My point is, why not have a state or federal database of people who are licensed to own guns?
[quote["A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."[/quote]
Would treating gun ownership similar to car ownership not be considered well regulated?
Please don't take this and twist it into something it's not. I'm just seeking a bit of clarification on why people seem to be so opposed to the topic of gun licensing? Granted, there's no amendment in the US constitution stating well regulated drivers shouldn't have their right to drive cars infringed, but I think the analogy works well enough for these purposes.
Cheers
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- MaverickM11
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 35): There is no gun problem, It is sad your country gave up a basic civil right it makes Australia a lesser place to live |
Ladies and gentlemen: exhibit A-Z why we have Trump
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39): Safety classes shouldn't be mandatory. It's a good idea but it's none of my business. |
Uh, your life is none of your business? What about the dramatically increased likelihood that it's cut short? Don't care bout 'that?
| Quoting diverted (Reply 46): Would treating gun ownership similar to car ownership not be considered well regulated? |
No that is pissing on the constitution and making da baby Jesus cry...because freedom. Or something. Now Iowa wants to allow children under the age of 14 have handguns--google that and you'll have to wade through a bunch of stories of teens killing others with guns but whatevs. In a nation with a near 1:1 gun-inhabitant ratio, the NRA has long run out of people to arm now that every last terrorist, nutjob, and crank has an arsenal, so clearly: kids! The NRA will cloak it in their long con of safety/freedom/rights, but ultimately the guns need to be sold to keep buying politicians, to sell more guns. Just follow the money.
[Edited 2016-02-26 19:13:07]
RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
| Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47): Ladies and gentlemen: exhibit A-Z why we have Trump |
Actually if I were to vote in the Republican primary, it wouldn't be for him...Sorry to ruin your delusion there.
| Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47): No that is pissing on the constitution and making da baby Jesus cry...because freedom. |
Ladies and gentlemen:Exhibit A-z why we have a witch like Hillary running.
| Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47): The NRA will cloak it in their long con of safety/freedom/rights, but ultimately the guns need to be sold to keep buying politicians, to sell more guns. Just follow the money. |
How many Tinfoil hats do you own?
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- DocLightning
- Posts: 22843
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RE: Workplace Shooting In Kansas
I do wish the Muslims and the African-Americans would start holding mass protests while waving semi-automatic assault rifles around.
That would solve the problem in a real hurry. A332DTW, can you get to work on that?
[Edited 2016-02-26 19:29:46]
[Edited 2016-02-26 19:30:05]
That would solve the problem in a real hurry. A332DTW, can you get to work on that?
[Edited 2016-02-26 19:29:46]
[Edited 2016-02-26 19:30:05]