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1337Delta764
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Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:59 am

I did a thread for transit, so now I will do one for freeways.

Here in the Phoenix area, ADOT has made several improvements to our local freeway system, including expanding hours that travel times are displayed on dynamic message signs, as well as installing logo signs advertising services at the next exit after years of being restricted to rural areas. Here are some improvements that I would make:
-Display travel times on more dynamic message signs.
-Build the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202), the I-10 Reliever (SR 30), and the remainder of the Gateway Freeway (SR 24).
-Build the proposed Pinal North-South Freeway as a toll road (Pinal County doesn't pay the freeway taxes that Maricopa County pays, thus there are virtually no other ways to pay for it since I don't think Pinal County voters would be in favor of such tax increases).
-Increase the speed limit on I-10 (except between 43rd Avenue and Baseline Road), I-17 north of Loop 101, US 60 Superstition Freeway (all), Loop 101 (except for the Price Freeway and a portion of the Pima Freeway), Loop 202 (all), and Loop 303 (all) to 70 mph.

What would you do to improve your own freeway system?

[Edited 2016-03-07 19:03:48]
 
BestWestern
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:22 am

The HK freeway system is truly fantastic, especially considering the population density and topography of the nation.

Improvements:

1 - electronic tolling
2 - Increase speed limits
3 - more journey time signage
4 - improved exit signage (topography and density results in tight junctions and short, easily missed exit ramps)
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Aaron747
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:33 am

The system is pretty good in Osaka, although they are all toll roads and are definitely not free.

Maybe they could start by not running ramps through buildings: (#becauseinfra)

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af773atmsp
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:18 am

For the Twin Cities freeway system:
-any bridge that needs immediate repair or replacement will be done
-make Interstates 494 and 694, and Highways 62, 212, and 610 toll roads. My reasoning being that we should be encouraging less car trips and discouraging suburban sprawl. So if people living in the suburbs want these beltways then they're going to have to pay a price. And I use I-494, though not often cause I hate it.
-minor reconfigurations of existing freeways and interchanges to ease traffic flow
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seb146
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:05 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
not running ramps through buildings

That's awesome.

The only real improvements I would suggest for the North Bay are a third lane in each direction of 101 between Novato and Petaluma and more dedicated bike lanes. Maybe make some better connecting road through Larkspur from 101 to 580.
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BestWestern
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:15 am

Electronic tolling and variable speed limits really are ways to improve road network efficiency.

UrbanToll booths cause unnecessary delays.

Variable toll charges per time of day can also smooth usage through de-peaking rush hour non essential traffic.

In france they have a "bis" concept which is essentially an alternative route - again to maximise usage of infrastructure in place.

Oh, and since I love bridges and tunnels, it's great when signs say how long the bridges and tunnels are. In Spain and China they have signs with this info.

The Chinese get the importance of infrastructure. They are building for the future.
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777Jet
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:02 pm

I wish we had a freeway system to improve...
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TheSonntag
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:53 pm

More Bicycles. More Trams, subways, public Transport in General. City taxes imposed on People driving alone.

Europe is too small for cars.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:42 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Build the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202), the I-10 Reliever (SR 30), and the remainder of the Gateway Freeway (SR 24).

202 South around the mountain will be starting in the next year or so. It takes a significant amount of time to deal with land on the reservation. Sr-30 will be happening as well. SR24 was completed as planned so far. There are future plans that are in study are for 2025+.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Build the proposed Pinal North-South Freeway as a toll road (Pinal County doesn't pay the freeway taxes that Maricopa County pays, thus there are virtually no other ways to pay for it since I don't think Pinal County voters would be in favor of such tax increases).

This area is under study as well, but nothing concrete has been proposed ADOT hasn't settled on a route plan or even begun the design phase. I also don't think you'll ever see a toll road in AZ in our lifetimes, maybe toll carpool lanes though.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Increase the speed limit on I-10 (except between 43rd Avenue and Baseline Road), I-17 north of Loop 101, US 60 Superstition Freeway (all), Loop 101 (except for the Price Freeway and a portion of the Pima Freeway), Loop 202 (all), and Loop 303 (all) to 70 mph

70mph speed limit in an urban area seems really aggressive and unecessary.
 
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PITingres
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:47 pm

The main freeway through Pittsburgh dates to 1953 (a few sections to 1956), and it was obsolete the day it opened. Unfortunately there is no way to expand it without re-boring a tunnel, redoing several good-sized bridges, and engaging in a truly massive eminent-domain project. Probably not going to happen in my lifetime.

The local topography is extremely freeway-unfriendly and I'm not sure I see any realistic new build projects happening. There are ongoing plans for a connector in the south - southest regions, but who knows if it will ever get built.
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BestWestern
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:50 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
70mph

Not with variable speed limits - off peak it makes sense. At peak - you may want a 30 mph.

London's M25 has this perfectly managed.
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seb146
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:55 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 8):
70mph speed limit in an urban area seems really aggressive and unecessary.

It also makes no sense during commute times. Look at the East Shore and Nimitz in the East Bay (San Francisco area). Speed limit signs could say 80MPH between Richmond and Fremont but traffic rarely gets to go faster than 50MPH during the day.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:03 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
Not with variable speed limits - off peak it makes sense. At peak - you may want a 30 mph.

London's M25 has this perfectly managed.

I am a big fan of variable speed limits. A few of the municipalities have been implementing them here in school zones and night life areas. If there were one major change to the freeway system I would certainly advocate that. Currently most speed limit signs in the urban area at 65mph, which I think is a fair limit as far as speed and noise.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
It also makes no sense during commute times. Look at the East Shore and Nimitz in the East Bay (San Francisco area). Speed limit signs could say 80MPH between Richmond and Fremont but traffic rarely gets to go faster than 50MPH during the day.

Non commute times traffic flows pretty well. There's only one area I can think of that traffic is almost always a little bit congested. But AZ is somewhat like CA in that people tend to go as fast as possible whenever they can.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):

The only real improvements I would suggest for the North Bay are a third lane in each direction of 101 between Novato and Petaluma and more dedicated bike lanes. Maybe make some better connecting road through Larkspur from 101 to 580.

Is the 101/12 interchange in Santa Rosa still an absolute disaster? That was an awful interchange a couple years ago.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:57 pm

I like the freeway through the building. In Chicago, the Eisenhower Expressway goes through the old Post Office

Southern California
1. Speed limit 80 in open desert (especially the 10 between Chiriaco Summit and Blythe Airport).
2. Truck climbing lane uphill between Coachella and Chiriaco Summit.
3. Allow CHP to conficscate trucks which are going 37 in the left lane uphill on a two lane freeway and passing another truck going 35.
4. 3 lanes on the 15 to the NV state line.
5. Re-designate the cutoff from the 215 in San Bernardino to the 210 Crosstown as 259 like it used to be.
6. Complete the 710 gap.
7. Extend the 241 to meet the 15 in Northern San Diego County.
8. Connect the Pasadena Fwy to the 210
9. Variable Speed limits to control flow
10. Variable routings. Advise 10 or 60, 605 or 57, etc.
11. Spur from 60 to ONT terminals
12. Another route north over the San Gabriel Mountains

North Texas
1. Capacity pricing on tollways where it is fixed price 24/7
2. Some kind of spur into the Brinkmann Ranch development in Frisco

Chicago Area.
1. Crosstown Expressway
2. Finish Palatine Expressway flyovers.

Phoenix
1. I-10 3 lanes to Buckeye
2. Interstate route to LV (may go through Kingman)

Tucson
Something going east which serves Downtown and is reasonably close to U of A
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TWA772LR
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:39 pm

For Houston:

Complete revamp of I-610. It's always a mess and needs much better signage.
45 and 59 aren't bad in terms of condition, but traffic wise, 45 can rival LA and 59 south of downtown is up there as well.
I believe they should extend METRORail up to the Woodlands and IAH through the 45 and 59 HOV lanes respectively.
The Grand Parkway is coming along, but the part most important to me (between 45 and 59) has been dragging on forever now, does anyone have an idea when that segment should be open?
And FM 1960 can have much better light synchronization, from Lake Houston all the way to 45.
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desertjets
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:59 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
Phoenix
1. I-10 3 lanes to Buckeye
2. Interstate route to LV (may go through Kingman)

The 2nd one is part of the proposed Interstate 11 project. From Wickenburg north it would be mostly upgrading US 93 to interstate standards.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
Tucson
Something going east which serves Downtown and is reasonably close to U of A

Its been a long time since I've lived in, let alone been to Tucson, but traffic was a PITA back then. The anti-freeway movement hit Tucson big back in the 1970s. While that is all well and good, the anti-urban sprawl movement didn't hit as hard. I remember doing research for my senior capstone for my History major at UA and there were plans for urban freeways. I seem to recall a n/s route roughly following Campbell/Kino Parkway. But even then I think they were already behind the game by 1970 and the sprawl had already happened before any serious transportation planning could take place.



As for my town, Albuquerque -- it got kinda lucky as two major interstate highways essentially bisect the city. At least east of the river the road infrastructure is fairly good and there was a physical barrier on three sides to sprawl. The westside is another story and most transportation studies and plans basically say they are screwed. For much of the westside, particularly north of I-40 broke the grid that exists to the east -- however much of Rio Rancho is laid out in a grid. The big challenge is north/south flows from Rio Rancho, through the westside of Albuquerque to I-40. The other challenge is east/west flows. Basically with the Rio Grande in the way, and how some areas near the Rio Grande are developed, there is not a lot of places to build and expand crossings and east/west routes to connect to I-25 and the road grid on the eastside. While they recently addressed part of this issue with an upgraded interchange at I-25 and Paseo del Norte I feel like they went cheap and underbuilt the interchange. While it is better than what existed before it will be functionally obsolete in short order.

Ultimately part of the solution would be to make Paseo del Norte (the right of way is big enough IMO) controlled access from Tramway in the east to Double Eagle airport in the west. It is only controlled access from the I-25 interchange west to Coors.

Second is a western bypass. I think it is roughly planned, but decidedly a long-term need if the westside of town continues to grow.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:20 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 16):
As for my town, Albuquerque -- it got kinda lucky as two major interstate highways essentially bisect the city. At least east of the river the road infrastructure is fairly good and there was a physical barrier on three sides to sprawl. The westside is another story and most transportation studies and plans basically say they are screwed. For much of the westside, particularly north of I-40 broke the grid that exists to the east -- however much of Rio Rancho is laid out in a grid. The big challenge is north/south flows from Rio Rancho, through the westside of Albuquerque to I-40. The other challenge is east/west flows. Basically with the Rio Grande in the way, and how some areas near the Rio Grande are developed, there is not a lot of places to build and expand crossings and east/west routes to connect to I-25 and the road grid on the eastside. While they recently addressed part of this issue with an upgraded interchange at I-25 and Paseo del Norte I feel like they went cheap and underbuilt the interchange. While it is better than what existed before it will be functionally obsolete in short order.

Ultimately part of the solution would be to make Paseo del Norte (the right of way is big enough IMO) controlled access from Tramway in the east to Double Eagle airport in the west. It is only controlled access from the I-25 interchange west to Coors.

Second is a western bypass. I think it is roughly planned, but decidedly a long-term need if the westside of town continues to grow.

I used to live in Albuquerque. However, even though I don't live there anymore, here are some improvements that I would like to see:
-Extend hours of travel time displays on dynamic message signs to include non-rush periods in both directions. This was implemented here in the Phoenix area last July, where travel times are now shown in both directions from 5AM-11PM on weekdays, and 7AM-9PM on weekends.
-Install logo signs (food, gas, lodging, camping, attractions, 24-hour pharmacies) on Albuquerque freeways, including, I-25, I-40, and Paseo Del Norte. If a major metro area like Phoenix can have them, there is nothing that prevents Albuquerque from having them other than any meritless state law restricting them to rural areas.

Going back to my area, I have two additions:
-Install more dynamic message signs on freeway approaches. This would actually be up to the cities rather than ADOT, with some cities having a few, but they just don't seem to be as common as in other major cities.
-Install dynamic message signs on US 60 Grand Avenue. Grand Avenue is a major thoroughfare for those driving between Phoenix and Las Vegas, and thus it would be good to know about traffic incidents and travel times.

[Edited 2016-03-08 14:22:18]
 
diverted
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:46 pm

Ottawa----

I'd be happy if they could just keep the current roads decently paved. Dodging potholes on ever street is getting old quick.
 
luckyone
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:59 pm

The Eisenhower Expressway wouldn't narrow from 4 to 3 lanes just because Oak Park pitches a hissyfit every time the states talks about widening the road through there. It's a bottle neck during rush hour because of the double whammy of 4-3 narrowing, AND left-sided entrance and exit ramps, both of which occur within proximity to a right-sided entrance ramp. so it's a real cluster-gem.

In an ideal world, there would be a limited access road between the northern portion of Lake Shore Drive and the Kennedy/Edens Expressway, however, this would have to be a tunnel because any other type of roadway would decimate the community feeling those neighborhoods have.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:29 am

Quoting desertjets (Reply 16):
As for my town, Albuquerque -- it got kinda lucky as two major interstate highways essentially bisect the city.

  

I've lived in cities 1/4 the size of ABQ with worse traffic. Two big interstates almost right down the middle of the city with a modern interchange, generally wide boulevards for surface roads allowing 40 mph speeds, and limits to sprawl in three directions. It seems the challenge will be accomodating further growth south in Los Lunas and Belen, and west along the west side and Rio Rancho. The Paseo Del Norte interchange is a BIG improvement from what was there before and has helped cross river traffic. A bypass from south of Isleta pueblo up the west side along Atrisco Vista to 550 would be good down the road, but probably not needed for a couple decades.

Really ABQ traffic is generally quite easy. The changes I have are all small things like straightening I-25 between Central and Avenida Cesar Chavez (expensive but would be nice), building the extension of Sunport down to Broadway, and modernizing the Gibson on/off ramps with I-25.
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Ken777
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:00 pm

We are pretty lucky in Tulsa these days as voters have passed bond issues to pay for road improvements. The unlucky part is the need to know where the work is being done. The last major section to be upgraded on I 44 is completed but I 244 is still under heavy construction. Overall the completed construction is making driving a lot better.

Riverside Drive (not a true freeway because of the traffic lights) is closed off while a massive new park called The Meeting Place is being constructed. When that is completed it will be fantastic and will generate a national reputation in the park world. With another bond issue including low level dams on the river that should also start looking better.

Quoting diverted (Reply 18):
Dodging potholes on ever street is getting old quick.

We went through that one. A local TV station created the Pothole Fairy who would strike the streets. The worst sections were put on TV as part of a daily program and viewers were happy to call in their problems. There was one time when a 2 block long strip of potholes every 5 to 10 feet were shown. A few days later they were back on TV as the City had filled every other pothole - leaving the other to screw up suspensions.
 
coolian2
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:53 pm

Bowl the whole sodding thing and whack a train line on it.

It's absurd that I could walk to the train station and be in the city faster than if I tried to drive during peak traffic.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:58 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 18):
I'd be happy if they could just keep the current roads decently paved. Dodging potholes on ever street is getting old quick.

That's probably true for every Canadian city. And as for Ontario as whole, we need a realistic speed limit combined with variable speed limits where necessary. 100 km/h on most of the 401 is way too low. Just look how is looking like about 10 kilometers from my house: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401#/media/File:Highway_401-Highway_402_interchange.jpg
What would be the limit on a highway like this in Germany?
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offloaded
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:48 pm

Remove the tolls on the A22 (trans Algarve) which will relieve the pressure on the heavily stretched EN125.

The background to all of this is that as part of the bailout effort, the Portuguese government decided that putting a bunch of tolls on previously free highways would be a nice little earner. It wasn't. The tolls are too high and people avoid it like the plague. It actually now costs the state more in subsidizing the Spanish concession holder than it did before. Also the accident rate which had been falling, climbed sharply up as traffic headed to the free but creaking national roads instead.
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Ken777
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:18 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 22):
It's absurd that I could walk to the train station and be in the city faster than if I tried to drive during peak traffic.

It's also the price people pay to have their cars available. Great for outside salesmen, doctors going from office to hospital or attorneys from offices to court rooms. It's also great for people who drop kids off at school on the way to work, or just people who might have to work late. Individuals make their own decisions on how to commute, When I was in Perth I started driving to a close bus stop lot and then read wile the bus driver did the work. When I got a company car in a new job I drove to work, but left about 20 minutes earlier to avoid peak traffic.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Build the proposed Pinal North-South Freeway as a toll road

  

No toll roads in Arizona. Ever.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
No toll roads in Arizona. Ever.

Pinal County doesn't pay the freeway taxes that Maricopa County pays for, and I have doubts that Pinal County residents would vote in favor of a tax increase to build it, thus a toll road is the only option.

Arizona law now allows P3 projects, which may or may not involve toll roads. The South Mountain Freeway will be a Design-Build-Maintain P3 project, which the funding is already in place, but the private partner (Connect 202 Partners) will design, build, and maintain the freeway for 30 years.

The Pinal North-South Freeway, on the other hand, is unfunded, and unless Pinal County residents vote in favor of a tax increase to build it, ADOT must probably have it built through a Design-Build-Finance-Operate-Maintain P3 project, which means the road would be financed by the private partner via toll revenues.

One thing to remember about P3 projects is that they are not a privatization of public facilities, since the public partner retains ownership of the facilities.
 
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ER757
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:06 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
Chicago Area.
1. Crosstown Expressway

Ha - they were talking about this project ever since the FIRST Mayor Daley was in office. Will probably be built about the time the 3rd airport down in Peotone opens.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
The Eisenhower Expressway wouldn't narrow from 4 to 3 lanes just because Oak Park pitches a hissyfit every time the states talks about widening the road through there.

Amen brother! I used to have to deal with that Charlie Foxtrot every day.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 5):
Variable toll charges per time of day can also smooth usage through de-peaking rush hour non essential traffic.

This was recently implemented on I-405 outside Seattle. By the comments on the WSDOT website, you'd think the world just ended. Hilarious thing is all the whiners can still use the "free" lanes as the express toll lanes are an option. They just haven't a clue that in most places EVERYONE pays the toll and no one can zip along by paying for the privilege.
 
wn676
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 8):

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Build the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202), the I-10 Reliever (SR 30), and the remainder of the Gateway Freeway (SR 24).

202 South around the mountain will be starting in the next year or so. It takes a significant amount of time to deal with land on the reservation. Sr-30 will be happening as well..

I'm actually looking at the preliminary plans right now for portions of the SMF from the I-10 South to about Baseline. I think there's some utility work already underway around there. The entire freeway should be open about 3 years from now.

The final segments of SR 24 and SR 30 are currently in the study phase and I don't think an alignment has been picked yet, however, you're right that it's a matter of when, not if.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:04 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 29):
The final segments of SR 24 and SR 30 are currently in the study phase and I don't think an alignment has been picked yet, however, you're right that it's a matter of when, not if.

Of course these won't be built as toll roads due to the available shunpikes (US 60 and I-10, respectively), as well as the fact that Maricopa County has a freeway tax (Proposition 400, which in addition to freeways also funds mass transit). However, the Pinal North-South Freeway could potentially be built as a toll road due to lack of available shunpikes as well as the lack of a freeway tax in Pinal County.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:54 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
4. 3 lanes on the 15 to the NV state line.

The 3rd lane is the truck lane  .
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
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RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:02 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
Southern California
1. Speed limit 80 in open desert (especially the 10 between Chiriaco Summit and Blythe Airport).
2. Truck climbing lane uphill between Coachella and Chiriaco Summit.
3. Allow CHP to conficscate trucks which are going 37 in the left lane uphill on a two lane freeway and passing another truck going 35.
4. 3 lanes on the 15 to the NV state line.
5. Re-designate the cutoff from the 215 in San Bernardino to the 210 Crosstown as 259 like it used to be.
6. Complete the 710 gap.
7. Extend the 241 to meet the 15 in Northern San Diego County.
8. Connect the Pasadena Fwy to the 210
9. Variable Speed limits to control flow
10. Variable routings. Advise 10 or 60, 605 or 57, etc.
11. Spur from 60 to ONT terminals
12. Another route north over the San Gabriel Mountains

I agree with all of this, although I'm not too read up on the transit situation in the Inland Empire. I don't think you will ever see a higher limit than 70 MPH in California. CHP does need to bring in revenue, after all  . Also, I wish the 105 would connect to the 5, instead of just end at the 605, but further research into that matter led me to conclude that it wouldn't be feasible.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:30 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 28):
This was recently implemented on I-405 outside Seattle. By the comments on the WSDOT website, you'd think the world just ended. Hilarious thing is all the whiners can still use the "free" lanes as the express toll lanes are an option. They just haven't a clue that in most places EVERYONE pays the toll and no one can zip along by paying for the privilege.

That is because people in the west have not had toll roads. And few see a need for them other than as revenue generators. They are beginning to creep into California as they are now selling space in the HOV lanes.It snuck up on us, now even motorcycles, who don't have to pay in HOV lanes, must carry transponders.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8378
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:47 am

Tolling techniques, use of technology and common sense can alter traffic usage significantly.

In Ireland they introduced number plate recognition for electronic tolling and overnight removed massive bottleknecks on the Dublin city ring.

On the Dublin Port Tunnel (largest urban tunnel in Europe) they have priced the tunnel to successfully force traffic into off peak period usage. Tunnel usage is free for trucks and by banning trucks during the day in the city, have removed significant congestion in the city and urban roads - significantly reducing accidents also.

In Hong Kong, some toll roads are oneway toll only - which also reduces toll delays by 50%. The Lantau Link express way that links the airport to the city is only tolled heading towards the airport and not on the return as its the only road access to the airport. The toll tags here also work in China.

Variable speed limits can speed cars away from jams and slow cars arriving into peak zones.
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jetmatt777
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:41 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
Variable speed limits can speed cars away from jams and slow cars arriving into peak zones.

Ultimately, drivers regulate their speed based on the design of the road and the weather conditions and not posted speed limits, fixed or variable.

Many freeways across the US are speed limited around 10-15 MPH lower than the actual design of the road. For example, lane widths, median width, and shoulder/ROW width designed for 70MPH, will be posted at 60 MPH. But drivers still mostly drive 70 or so. We regulate our speed psychologically about the built environment, and not necessarily what the speed limit is posted.
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:42 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:15 am

Upgrade CA99 to Interstate standards. Ridiculous it still isn't one. AFAIK there are only a few at-grade crossings remaining anyway. Widen some shoulders and raise some overpasses and you're done. So odd that the most populous, car-loving state has but one N-S (Interstate) freeway connecting the two main population centers.

[Edited 2016-03-12 01:18:24]
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N867DA
Posts: 1368
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:52 pm

For the city of Atlanta:

Create another north-south freeway to relieve I-75/I-85 through the heart of the city. Two freeways with 6-7 lanes each become five lanes through the city center, causing horrible traffic backups for miles even on a Saturday.

Create an outer ring road 10-15 miles outside I-285. Hard to do because it would pass through some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the metro area.

Get rid merging lanes in as many places as possible, especially on the freeways. Atlantans do not use the zipper merge correctly. When two lanes are going to merge, the car in the lane that's going to end comes to a stop and waits for someone in the next lane over to let them in so they don't "cut the line".
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dragon6172
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:31 pm

It would be nice to have an interstate level road that allows traffic to avoid some of the major east coast metro areas. From NYC / North Jersey it could follow the Garden State Parkway, cross the Delaware Bay at Cape May, follow US 13 south on the DelMarVa peninsula, pass through Hampton Roads, and rejoin I-95 somewhere in NC or SC. Traffic could avoid having to go through Philly, Baltimore, Washington DC, Northern VA, etc.
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BestWestern
Posts: 8378
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 35):
Ultimately, drivers regulate their speed based on the design of the road and the weather conditions and not posted speed limits, fixed or variable.

They do when there are speed cameras or average speed over distance cameras.

SPECS cameras operate as sets of two or more cameras installed along a fixed route that can be from 200 metres (660 feet) to 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) in length. They work by using an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) system to record a vehicle's front number plate at each fixed camera site. As the distance is known between these sites, the average speed can be calculated by dividing this by the time taken to travel between two points. The cameras use infrared photography, allowing them to operate both day and night.


Good article from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7048645.stm
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6199
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 14):
Tucson
Something going east which serves Downtown and is reasonably close to U of A

Where would you suggest? I suppose Broadway could be gotten rid of but I see no other options in the city. There is a better idea out there that will relieve the I-10 mess. Build a freeway from Vail to Marana, roughly along the track of Pima Mine Road and Sandario Road.

But I agree with this.

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 22):
Bowl the whole sodding thing and whack a train line on it.

The days of adding concrete as a valid mode of transportation are past future realities. If we as a society are going to spend trillions and decades building a way to get around, freeways are the worst solution possible.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2446
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:34 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 40):
The days of adding concrete as a valid mode of transportation are past future realities. If we as a society are going to spend trillions and decades building a way to get around, freeways are the worst solution possible.

Tell the Twin Cities that. We're still stuck in the 1960s where public transit is obsolete and we can solve our traffic and infrastructure problems with more roads and bridges.  
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mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:45 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 39):
They do when there are speed cameras or average speed over distance cameras.

Yea, we dislike that amount of Police State. Unless there is some immediate safety aspect, such as speeders in school zones, those cameras are generally not accepted by the public.

The variable speed limit thing is stupid. They installed this in Seattle and it was impossible to say it did any good at all. Installing a bunch of expensive signs telling people the speed limit was now 30 when lanes were full and only doing 25-30 anyway is ridiculous. You need traffic to move quickly, speed is not the issue, the issue is too many cars for too little space. Faster they move, the faster it clears.
 
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UltimateDelta
Posts: 2233
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:56 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:08 pm

In general there's not much to complain about in regards to Utah highways, although a third lane on I-15 between Brigham City and Ogden would be nice. Additionally, UDOT seems to have a weird fixation with ridiculous X-junctions at several interstate on-ramps which involve shifting the lanes to the opposite side of the road, which are unnecessarily confusing and don't seem to offer any appreciable benefit over a regular on-ramp with a traffic light.

For the city of Logan:
The worst thing is that there are basically no left-turn arrows to be found, except for a few intersections with Main Street/US-91, so to getting anywhere south of where I live frequently requires crossing the street and making three right turns. Alternatively, there's a bypass on the western edge of town which works great, but isn't especially convenient for me, since I live on the eastern side. It'd be nice to see one east of Main Street, though admittedly I don't know where it could possibly go since it's almost exclusively residential.
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jetmatt777
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 39):
They do when there are speed cameras or average speed over distance cameras.

SPECS cameras operate as sets of two or more cameras installed along a fixed route that can be from 200 metres (660 feet) to 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) in length. They work by using an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) system to record a vehicle's front number plate at each fixed camera site. As the distance is known between these sites, the average speed can be calculated by dividing this by the time taken to travel between two points. The cameras use infrared photography, allowing them to operate both day and night.
Quoting mham001 (Reply 42):
Yea, we dislike that amount of Police State. Unless there is some immediate safety aspect, such as speeders in school zones, those cameras are generally not accepted by the public.

Red light cameras and speed cameras are disappearing in the United States. Plenty of municipalities have installed them, only to later take them down. The cost of administering the system is greater than the revenue. So many things set them off improperly (resulting in accidental fines), and also they are a legal issue because they go against our legal system of innocent until proven guilty. You are not questioned on the spot, you are not spoken to by law enforcement. You receive a bill in the mail 30-45 days after the incident saying you are guilty of the following crime, and here is the cost. After 30-45 days, your memory of the event has completely vanished from your memory, and you have no way to defend yourself in the court of law.
 
Beardown91737
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:15 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 32):
CHP does need to bring in revenue, after all

I found that out on the 10 between Desert Center and Chiriaco Summit.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 32):
Also, I wish the 105 would connect to the 5, instead of just end at the 605, but further research into that matter led me to conclude that it wouldn't be feasible.

That was the original plan but Norwalk blocked it.

Quoting iflykpdx (Reply 36):
Upgrade CA99 to Interstate standards. Ridiculous it still isn't one. AFAIK there are only a few at-grade crossings remaining anyway. Widen some shoulders and raise some overpasses and you're done. So odd that the most populous, car-loving state has but one N-S (Interstate) freeway connecting the two main population centers.

Good one. Reminded me of one I forgot: eliminate the last grade crossings in the Badlands (CA-60 Mo Valley Fwy)
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CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:25 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 45):

I found that out on the 10 between Desert Center and Chiriaco Summit.

I use a radar detector to let me know when the police are around  . It was quite helpful during my trip to PHX last summer.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:21 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 40):
The days of adding concrete as a valid mode of transportation are past future realities. If we as a society are going to spend trillions and decades building a way to get around, freeways are the worst solution possible.

Indeed. It's well proven adding lanes etc just incites demand. The expected traffic relief is gone because more people use it.

Mind you, as we've discovered in Auckland - adding more buses and trains does the same thing!
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PITingres
Posts: 1364
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:59 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:24 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 47):
It's well proven adding lanes etc just incites demand.

That's way, way too simplistic. There are plenty of situations where the demand is already there, it's not going to grow because the region is otherwise limited, and the existing roads can't carry the load. 376 East here in Pittsburgh is one example. If we could somehow slay the Tunnel Monster, it wouldn't stimulate demand; everyone who wants to go from the eastern suburbs to downtown is already on that road, because there's no other even remotely sensible way to go.

Another example might be the A340 west of Oxford, which is just simply impassible on weekday mornings. Again, it's not like people are finding other ways around the route, because there aren't any. If you put another lane on that road, or fixed a few of the intersections, it might take the 3-mile time from an hour down to 30 minutes. That's hardly going to incite people to rush to move into the area and start driving the A340. (Much of the area is growth controlled in other ways, anyway.)

I think this business of "inciting demand" really only applies to a road that is just reaching capacity and gets expanded. Refusing to fix acute traffic problems because they might incite demand is stuff and nonsense.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Ken777
Posts: 10160
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Improve Your Own Freeway System

Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:07 pm

Quoting PITingres (Reply 48):
Refusing to fix acute traffic problems because they might incite demand is stuff and nonsense.

A lot of roads were designed for short to medium term calculations on traffic growth and are totally inept for today's populations. This can be especially true closer to the central business districts where expansion is pretty expensive. That doesn't mean that enhancing the freeways should not be done.

One big problem is that politicians love to cut the ribbon on a new freeway, but don't like digging into the details of needed maintenance/ expansion. How many freeways need to be expanded at least 2 lanes in each direction? (A one lane expansion is only a short term solution IMO) How many bridges need either major maintenance or replacing?

If you want long term economic growth take a hard look at upgrading infrastructure.

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