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dfwjim1
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Question - People Asking For Money

Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:52 pm

Whenever I drive from my job to my home (South Florida) I see people begging for money at the same major intersection every
afternoon/evening. However when I am driving to work in the morning I never see people begging for money at this intersection
or any other place for that matter. When I lived in California and Texas I experienced the exact same thing so this is not
particular to Florida.

So I am curious...is there a reason or reasons why people do not beg for money during the morning commute? Do the type of
people who beg for money not like to get up early? Are the pickings rather slim? Are they sleeping off an alcohol or drug induced
bender?

Thanks for your responses!
 
N1120A
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:00 am

There is always someone - usually an injured/mentally ill veteran from the nearby VA complex - at the Southbound 405 exit to Santa Monica Boulevard during the morning commute.
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pu
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:25 pm

I worked with homeless people for many years and still participate occasionally in volunteer events.

There was never a single example of a homeless person I came across that was drug and alcohol free. Of course, I am not alcohol free either so I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism. The general lifestyle was definitely drink and drug party all night, wake up under a bridge or in a park sometime around noon, then go back to "work" begging for money.

We may as well bring up the larger "problem" of homelessness. I don't consider it as much a problem as much as it is an example of unlimited freedom of choice.





Pu.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):

Getting rid of these people is simple.

Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"
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Rara
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:42 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Getting rid of these people is simple.

Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"

Haha, great! Nothing quite says "I'm big and clever" like being an arse to a homeless person.  

Oh wait, bragging about it on an online forum kinda does.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:53 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
Haha, great! Nothing quite says "I'm big and clever" like being an arse to a homeless person.

Oh wait, bragging about it on an online forum kinda does.

Another smart arse "look at me, I am a professional troll" reply from you.

You act like your some tough guy - I bet you are a poonce in real life  

If you want to deal with them and fumble through your wallet looking for coins or lie to them and say you have no cash then more power to you. They know how cashless today's society is so the line I use, or saying, "I don't carry cash. I only have credit card" is an easy way to get rid of them and they accept it.

Continue with you trolling rara...
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rfields5421
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:11 am

One factor is the morning rush hour people are much less likely to stop. They are in a hurry to get to work. It is an unproductive time of day.

Like any 'worker' the homeless, if they actually are homeless, quickly learn which parts of the day make money, and which parts of the day don't make money.

I've had homeless people from a shelter working for me at times in the past. A shelter which would not let anyone back in after 11 pm or at all if they were intoxicated/ visibly on drugs. I would get young men in their 30's for a days' labor, and they would not want to go back to the shelter in the evening. They wanted to be dropped off by a liquor store. They would not be at the shelter the next morning. Very seldom would one work two days in a row.

I have no idea if my experience with using the homeless for day labor was typical or not. Just that is what I saw in Dallas.

I am unwilling to say that the small sample I met is the normal behavior of the homeless. (Actually 'the homeless' is such a large and varied group I doubt there is a 'typical' personal story.)
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johns624
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:04 am

My wife used to be a VP for a national nonprofit that helps the homeless and disabled. She would always give them her business card instead of money and tell them to come see her for a job and some help. She never got any takers...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:18 am

In the past week I've seen five different people standing at the same freeway exit, carrying the same unique sign.

A co-worker referred to the sign as a "Homeless Timeshare."   
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fr8mech
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:26 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"
Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
Haha, great! Nothing quite says "I'm big and clever" like being an arse to a homeless person.

I'll just leave this right here:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/29/us/det...homeless-man-credit-cards-website/

Quoting johns624 (Reply 7):
She never got any takers...

That's because, by and large, the homeless are so because of mental illness. Oh, it may have started with a lost job, some bad luck and/or some bad decisions, but I'm convinced that a homeless person remains homeless because he (or she), after some time, becomes incapable of making the "right" decision.

Question is, how do we fix it? Do we allow them to continue as they are? Do we institutionalize them until they are ready to rejoin society as functioning, contributing members? How will that look? Who will take them in, give them a chance (job) to prevent them from spiraling back into homelessness?
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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777Jet
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:08 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"
Quoting Rara (Reply 4):
Haha, great! Nothing quite says "I'm big and clever" like being an arse to a homeless person.

I'll just leave this right here:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/29/us/det...site/

At least he is moving with the times.

Having said that, I wonder if he realized that McDonalds was hiring? Or, that the local supermarket was looking for a new cleaner?

Some people are just above some jobs...

Quoting johns624 (Reply 7):
My wife used to be a VP for a national nonprofit that helps the homeless and disabled. She would always give them her business card instead of money and tell them to come see her for a job and some help. She never got any takers...

Be careful writing things like that in here. Our local psychologist Rara will have something 'big' to say about that as well as provide a character assessment of your wife.

FWIW I say good on her! That is how they should be dealt with. Just handing them money will encourage them to keep coming back for more... I'm all for giving them a chance to work and earn money for themselves.

[Edited 2016-03-23 01:14:19]
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PhilBy
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:41 pm

I don't give money because you can bet it doesn't feed the family and probably doesn't help them in the long run. I do however, on ocasions, buy food and give them that instead. Nobody honestly claiming to be hungry will turn down free food.

I have once had someone refuse food - I guess they weren't really needy!
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:24 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 2):

And don't forget that a lot of people who beg for money are not homeless.
 
directorguy
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:05 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):

I have a possible explanation.
Many homeless people do day jobs. Many go to some job center to get hired for the day, and have to queue very early to get a place. After a certain point (10 or 11 am) it becomes clear that they're not getting hired for the day as demand for jobs usually exceeds the supply. Hence, it becomes necessary to find an alternative, e.g. begging on a highway in the late afternoon rush hour.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
That's because, by and large, the homeless are so because of mental illness. Oh, it may have started with a lost job, some bad luck and/or some bad decisions, but I'm convinced that a homeless person remains homeless because he (or she), after some time, becomes incapable of making the "right" decision.

Not entirely sure. Some might see mental illness as a symptom of the homeless lifestyle (i.e. it starts to develop after becoming homeless), not a cause.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
Question is, how do we fix it? Do we allow them to continue as they are? Do we institutionalize them until they are ready to rejoin society as functioning, contributing members? How will that look? Who will take them in, give them a chance (job) to prevent them from spiraling back into homelessness?

Already many homeless shelters try to institutionalise the homeless, short-term, and in exchange for providing them with services (a bed for the night, a free meal etc.) might try to instil certain 'values' and beliefs that would somehow turn the homeless individual into a God-fearing, tax-paying 'productive' member of society overnight. It isn't that simple. Also, many will try to make the homeless people get 'clean' by stop doing drugs/drinking. The drugs/drinking, for many, are coping mechanisms, and as any homeless person in a cold American/European city will tell you, it's essential to keeping warm.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
I am unwilling to say that the small sample I met is the normal behavior of the homeless. (Actually 'the homeless' is such a large and varied group I doubt there is a 'typical' personal story.)

That's actually very important to keep in mind.
Many people, based on one incident, will generalise about homeless people. There are many types. Some are short-term homeless (living in their car till they get their first paycheck or whatever), some have been displaced due to natural disasters (e.g. Hurricane Katrina victims), some became homeless after dropping out of high school, or leaving the army, or after getting a divorce. Everyone has their own story.
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:14 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
Whenever I drive from my job to my home (South Florida) I see people begging for money at the same major intersection every
afternoon/evening.

What intersection? I'm used to seeing beggars on US1 and 88th Street or 72nd etc. perhaps since the metrorail stations are near there. I see beggars usually congregating around the stations and when I go to my car, though they've never caused me any problems. Beggars have started to appear at intersections in West Kendall, something that seemed unthinkable just a few years ago. I never give money, I have given food in the past however.
 
mham001
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
I've had homeless people from a shelter working for me at times in the past. A shelter which would not let anyone back in after 11 pm or at all if they were intoxicated/ visibly on drugs. I would get young men in their 30's for a days' labor, and they would not want to go back to the shelter in the evening. They wanted to be dropped off by a liquor store. They would not be at the shelter the next morning. Very seldom would one work two days in a row.

I have no idea if my experience with using the homeless for day labor was typical or not. Just that is what I saw in Dallas.

Yes and no. That might have something to do with the policies of the shelter, whether they will tolerate that kind of transience. Look for one that tries to maintain stability in its residents..

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
Many homeless people do day jobs.

Not the ones panhandling.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
Already many homeless shelters try to institutionalise the homeless, short-term, and in exchange for providing them with services (a bed for the night, a free meal etc.) might try to instil certain 'values' and beliefs that would somehow turn the homeless individual into a God-fearing, tax-paying 'productive' member of society overnight. It isn't that simple.

Actually, yes it can be, and even if it doesn't work, they have at least helped the problem for a period of time. I spent a good chunk of my youth homeless. The month I spent in the Baptist Mission in Huntsville, Alabama was a place to catch my breath and to make and save a few dollars to reach a goal, part of a life strategy. That stay did all those things. I know there were other men who were also able to turn their lives around from that point. And for all the shit Christian religion takes in my country, they do and succeed more than the government will ever do. I can also now do a pretty good impersonation of a hellfire and brimstone preacher..

The reason this problem has grown exponentially is because we tolerate it. Panhandling was the lowest form of living on the road, back in the day. Only those with zero pride would do it. Now it is the easy choice for them and they are near every freeway onramp, not even bothering to hide their camps. Why, because they can. Meanwhile, (I live on a city border), I can cross the street into the next city where it is illegal to panhandle on the medians and there are no homeless. None, it is like night and day.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:41 am

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
Some might see mental illness as a symptom of the homeless lifestyle (i.e. it starts to develop after becoming homeless), not a cause.

That's what I wrote. Maybe I wasn't clear with this statement:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
becomes incapable of making the "right" decision.

I suspect a very small minority of mentally stable people would choose to remain homeless if the opportunity to not be homeless presented itself.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
Already many homeless shelters try to institutionalise the homeless, short-term, and in exchange for providing them with services (a bed for the night, a free meal etc.

What I mean by institutionalize would actually amount to incarceration with the aim to make the person sound in mind and body. Not a "cot and a hot" for the evening.

I understand that my position presents several legal hurdles. Not to mention that it leaves a real bad taste in my mouth as it pertains to personal freedoms.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
tax-paying 'productive' member of society overnight.

Correct. It would take a varied amount of time depending on the physical and psychological condition of the patient. I have no frame of reference to even theorize an accurate time frame, but overnight is not-even-close.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
many will try to make the homeless people get 'clean' by stop doing drugs/drinking.

A prerequisite for rejoining society as a contributing member.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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directorguy
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:29 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
I suspect a very small minority of mentally stable people would choose to remain homeless if the opportunity to not be homeless presented itself.

Agreed. Some people are drawn to, or romanticize even, the hobo lifestyle, while others get so used to being homeless to the point that they wouldn't consider any alternative.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
What I mean by institutionalize would actually amount to incarceration with the aim to make the person sound in mind and body. Not a "cot and a hot" for the evening.

I understand that my position presents several legal hurdles. Not to mention that it leaves a real bad taste in my mouth as it pertains to personal freedoms.

It definitely would be a violation of personal rights. Not only that, but the idea of policing/punishing people who deviate from the norm (i.e.being homeless) should be punished.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
Actually, yes it can be, and even if it doesn't work, they have at least helped the problem for a period of time. I spent a good chunk of my youth homeless. The month I spent in the Baptist Mission in Huntsville, Alabama was a place to catch my breath and to make and save a few dollars to reach a goal, part of a life strategy. That stay did all those things. I know there were other men who were also able to turn their lives around from that point. And for all the shit Christian religion takes in my country, they do and succeed more than the government will ever do. I can also now do a pretty good impersonation of a hellfire and brimstone preacher..

The reason this problem has grown exponentially is because we tolerate it. Panhandling was the lowest form of living on the road, back in the day. Only those with zero pride would do it. Now it is the easy choice for them and they are near every freeway onramp, not even bothering to hide their camps. Why, because they can. Meanwhile, (I live on a city border), I can cross the street into the next city where it is illegal to panhandle on the medians and there are no homeless. None, it is like night and day.

Out of interest, why do you think homeless people should hide their camps? Forcing them to be more discrete would only increase their marginality vis-a-vis the non-homeless population.
Homeless people who do work usually do odd jobs, but aren't really able to find a long-term job that can sustain them for very long. Very few people will hire someone that looks like they just came off the street, and people who can't provide an address/contact number for potential employers are very unlikely to get hired. Without a job, paying a security deposit on an apartment becomes very difficult. I agree that we need to come up with good solutions, but the first thing we need to do is stop stigmatising people for being homeless.
 
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:54 pm

I see a few homeless people on my walk from the bus into the office each morning. There's a homeless newsletter that's published to raise funds and they're selling it in the morning. Depending on my mood, if I have spare change I'll give something, but I rarely carry any cash anymore so I don't tend to. I really don't care if they use the money to buy booze or drugs. If I were chronically homeless, I'd be looking for ways to escape reality too.

It's easy to offer a homeless person a job, but that doesn't take into account the prevalence of mental illness in the community, the need to purchase a work-appropriate wardrobe, the propensity for homeless people to be targeted by police and arrested over and over again for really petty crimes which leads to work absences and eventual termination, no permanent home address leading to instability, etc. There are a lot of obstacles that come with homelessness, and while it's easy to offer a job or the opportunity for a job, I'm not sure all these obstacles are really being considered.

Quoting directorguy (Reply 13):
I have a possible explanation.
Many homeless people do day jobs. Many go to some job center to get hired for the day, and have to queue very early to get a place. After a certain point (10 or 11 am) it becomes clear that they're not getting hired for the day as demand for jobs usually exceeds the supply. Hence, it becomes necessary to find an alternative, e.g. begging on a highway in the late afternoon rush hour.

That is certainly a big part of the reason. Many homeless people are day laborers, and are out looking for work in the mornings.
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dfwjim1
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 14):

I see them at the boundary of Davie and Plantation where University Drive crosses under Interstate 595. Most of the time
the beggars are located in the westbound lanes of State Road 84. I believe Davie is cracking down on panhandling as I do
not see as many people begging for money as I used to.
 
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"

And then the homeless person pulls out a card reader, I kid you not this is fast becoming the reality in Norway, the gypsies in Oslo use them.

 
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:43 pm

There is a homeless chap who I see every morning on Regent Street in London. He doesn't beg, but he holds a sign with a big smile on it and wishes everyone a good day who will shoot him a glance.

Have no qualms taking him a coffee to warm up. I don't generally give money to beggars or the homeless, I'd rather grab an extra sandwich for someone, or ask them what they need to get through the day and go get it.


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fr8mech
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:40 am

Quoting directorguy (Reply 17):
It definitely would be a violation of personal rights. Not only that, but the idea of policing/punishing people who deviate from the norm (i.e.being homeless) should be punished.

What about a person that is a danger to themselves, i.e. by living on the streets, or a danger to others? Doesn't the state have a duty to protect these folks and society?

Quoting directorguy (Reply 17):
should be punished

You believe that working to make someone healthy, physically and psychologically, is punishment?
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777Jet
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"

And then the homeless person pulls out a card reader,

Does your reader accept Diners Club? American Express Contactless? Visa PayWave? Then there is the 'as if I would give a bum my credit card details' anyway line...

The fact that some of these people are focused on getting card readers so they can continue to receive freebies, instead of focusing on getting a job, is further justification for not giving them a cent!
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:58 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 3):
Getting rid of these people is simple.

Reply to them with; "Do you accept Amex?"

What about giving them a job in exchange for cash? Seems like a fair trade instead of looking down your nose at them.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
That's because, by and large, the homeless are so because of mental illness.

Some are, some are not. Some know exactly what they are doing. Here in the North Bay, we have an influx of homeless since Super Bowl. We have seen the regulars wandering the streets but, lately, there have been more on intersections and at shopping center exits and they are bold.

I have had "homeless" ask me for money as I am riding down the bike path or just walking downtown. I tell them where the soup kitchens are and I am told "yeah, they won't help" which translates to "just give me cash." So, I don't deal with them.
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:43 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
Some are, some are not. Some know exactly what they are doing.

I suspect you're right, especially in the "perpetually good weather" areas of the country, but I believe that even these people's mental state slowly deteriorates to the point that they no longer "care". They just survive.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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777Jet
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RE: Question - People Asking For Money

Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:19 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
What about giving them a job in exchange for cash? Seems like a fair trade instead of looking down your nose at them.

That's a great idea for anybody in that kind of position.

But if you are not in the position to give them a job in exchange for money what do you suggest doing? Give in and just give them money for nothing? Lie and say you don't have any spare money? Lecture them on why you won't give them some spare money? How do you propose the average person deals with them.

Also, even if I could find something that I needed doing that I could pay them to do for me, I really wouldn't want them knowing where I live because then what... they would be back!

They need to get a real job, even if it involves hard work, even if it means flipping burgers, even if it means packing shelves, even if it means cleaning skidmarks off toilets, even if it means collecting garbage...
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