Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
photopilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:02 pm

So once again we (in North America at least) get a long weekend and a day off work to "celebrate" one religious holiday of one of the world's 4,000 odd religions.

Yet it's also a completely commercialized day with chocolate bunnies and eggs and sugar overdoses for kids

So why do we still insist as a society in celebrating one religions holiday yet not any of the others? When will we truly get rid of these days that mean absolutely nothing to everyone else? Isn't it about time for society to be completely secular?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Steve_YYZ/Fun%20Stuff%20Cartoons/Hoppy%20Easter_zpstxlv9sln.jpg
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:27 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
So why do we still insist as a society in celebrating one religions holiday yet not any of the others?

If we celebrated the religious holidays of all nationalities / cultures / religions represented in our country almost everyday would be a holiday.

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
Isn't it about time for society to be completely secular?

Whilst I am not religious and have no problem with going secular, I would still answer 'No' - Why get rid of longstanding traditions that form part of a nation's identity just to please a few?

If people don't like the idea that the country they came to celebrates particular religious holidays because it has always done so, and does not celebrate those religious holidays where they came from, they can deal with that or go elsewhere.

Each country celebrates its own important religious holidays and that is one thing that makes places unique, interesting and somewhat different. No need to go all secular.

[Edited 2016-03-25 05:36:37]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
QFA380
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:29 pm

I assume you'll go to work on Friday anyway, surely you can turn the lights on yourself. If not, why are you celebrating a religious day.

Most religious people prefer not to work on their religious holidays. Many Muslims will ask for leave on Eid to spend with family etc. If a large portion of the population would take the same day off then why not just make it easier for everyone and make it a public holiday. No one is forcing you to ponder the mysteries of Christ's death or to go sit through the Stations of the Cross.

When Muslims become a very large demographic in Canada you guys can have Eid off too. Would you still complain?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:44 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
When will we truly get rid of these days that mean absolutely nothing to everyone else? Isn't it about time for society to be completely secular?

Aren´t we going that way anyways? This year was completely devoid of customers wishing happy easter, i got a bunch of "enjoy the long weekend", but that is it.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
If these penalty rates are reduced or taken away one day I will never work on public holidays again and enjoy every long weekend off.

Well, governments could just redistribute those days at random across fridays and mondays around the year, and what government likes to celebrate its own citizens stupidity (what religious holidays are)?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
mmo
Posts: 2059
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:56 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
So why do we still insist as a society in celebrating one religions holiday yet not any of the others?

Do we get rid of Christmas too?
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8368
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:01 pm

I do think it should be all or nothing. if you celebrate one then it should be for any of the major death cults. I would rather an extra week of annual leave to be used when I want it than public holidays anyway.. Thankfully I work them anyway so that's exactly what I have and I miss out on the congestion of holiday weekend.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
photopilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:07 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
When Muslims become a very large demographic in Canada you guys can have Eid off too. Would you still complain?

Actually yes, as I fully believe that ALL holidays should be civic in nature. Either a celebration of a historic event (like the USA July 4th, or Canada's July 1st) and have nothing to do with any sort of organized religion. It's all a farce anyway as every religious holiday, especially what others label the traditional ones, have become hopelessly commercialized anyway.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:10 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 3):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
If these penalty rates are reduced or taken away one day I will never work on public holidays again and enjoy every long weekend off.

Well, governments could just redistribute those days at random across fridays and mondays around the year, and what government likes to celebrate its own citizens stupidity (what religious holidays are)?

Sorry, I tried to edit my post and I lost that first part about public holiday shift penalty rates   

The government here wants to significantly reduce shift penalty rates, including public holiday penalty rates, yet they still think enough people will work on these optional days as to not have a negative impact on services. Some of the sectors that would be affected are important, such as emergency services (police, fire, ambulance), hospital staff, transport workers, staff in aged care facilities, etc. I have no idea how staffing levels would be affected if penalty rates were messed with, but there is a general consensus between staff that many would not work for lower rates than they get now and none would work on public holidays if there were no shift penalty rates at all. It will be an interesting experiment if the government actually manages to pass such legislation.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:12 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 4):
Do we get rid of Christmas too?

Yes, please.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 5):
I would rather an extra week of annual leave to be used when I want it than public holidays anyway..

  
public holidays are effectively expropriated vacation days. Without religious lobby groups having them stolen from me, i would have 35 days leave instead of 27.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6285
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:15 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
When Muslims become a very large demographic in Canada you guys can have Eid off too. Would you still complain?

That would be, of course, "racist"!
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:27 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 8):
public holidays are effectively expropriated vacation days. Without religious lobby groups having them stolen from me, i would have 35 days leave instead of 27.

This is how it works in Germany?

Eliminating public holidays would lead to people having even less off time than they have now around here. The mandatory vacation time is only 2 weeks here and only applies to full time employees. Since full time jobs are becoming scarce, it would leave a good chunk of population without off time. Welcome to the 1800-s.

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
When will we truly get rid of these days that mean absolutely nothing to everyone else? Isn't it about time for society to be completely secular?

They tried it in communist countries. Replacing Baby Jesus with Grandpa Frost, Easter with spring celebrations. Failed.
Granted, it was in countries with christian religions only, but still a good example.
Perhaps the so much hated commercialization of the originally religious holidays is the answer. People forget about the church while shopping.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11172
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
So once again we (in North America at least) get a long weekend and a day off work to "celebrate" one religious holiday

What day off? Who is getting the day off?

I don't ever recall getting an "Easter" day off. Kids get spring break which was called Easter Break in past times but that's all I see for it.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:37 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 11):
What day off? Who is getting the day off?

Everybody in Canada who doesn't work in 24/7 business. Those working in 24/7 business get double pay (with some exceptions). Some of us will get 2 days off - Friday and Monday.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:38 pm

Easter and Christmas Holidays are secular Holidays because the parliament passed a law to make these public Holidays. The churches cannot do that.

It is up to the individuals to make this ecular or religious. Nobody is forced to go to church, not on Holidays and not on normal days and certainly not 5 times a day. Nobody is forced to celebrate May 1st either which is kind of a religious Holiday as well.

But it's nice to have 4 days in a row, Fridy to Monday inclusive and since some other Holidays always fall on a Thursday, Germans have shown how to "Bridge" a 5 day Weekend with one day vacation.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
photopilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 11):
What day off? Who is getting the day off?

All of Canada gets Good Friday off as a Statutory Holiday and some workers also get Easter Monday off. I checked and there are either 12 or 13 US States that also follow this religions holiday with a day off on Good Friday.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:51 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
This is how it works in Germany?

That is how it works everywhere.

I currently have 38 paid vacation days or public holidays, 27 days vaca, 3 secular holidays and 8 religious days.

My pay is dependent on my performance per unit of time and on how many of those i am going to invest into work.

Less vacation = more pay.

And of course the government could just increase minimum vacation time from 20 to 28 working days while getting rid of religious holidays.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
Nobody is forced to go to church, not on Holidays and not on normal days and certainly not 5 times a day.

The financial damage to the consumer is probably in the billions. If those days could be freely allocated around the year as i chose, the average expenditure for trips would go down.

Why don´t you go to a dance party today? Oh wait.. .it is illegal to have a dance party today.....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:58 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
The financial damage to the consumer is probably in the billions. If those days could be freely allocated around the year as i chose, the average expenditure for trips would go down.

typically German, complaining on a very high Level. I wonder that our american friends did not break out in tears after reading that you have 27 days paid vacation and if we tell them thaqt you have a virtually unlimited number of sick days on top of that and your employer Shares about 50% of your health insurannce they knock on our doors.And mind you, These 27 days are Mondy to Fridy which translates into 5 weeks plus 2 days which can be used as Bridge for the 2 Thursday Holidays. Properly applied you could get 7 weeks off in a row, plus the lublic Holidays.

As I said, complaining on a high Level.

almost forgot, did you ever figure out how much your lavish vacation days cost the consumer? It's us who have to foot that bill.

[Edited 2016-03-25 08:00:25]
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:05 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
That is how it works everywhere.

No. It doesn't. Not at all.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
I currently have 38 paid vacation days or public holidays, 27 days vaca, 3 secular holidays and 8 religious days.

Where you taking the certainty that your employer would give you the extra 11 days as paid holidays if the statutory holidays would be eliminated?

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 15):
My pay is dependent on my performance per unit of time and on how many of those i am going to invest into work.

Less vacation = more pay.

That's your personal choice. Many of us rather take the extra time off. Not to mention that many of us are on salary - longer work hours mean just loss of our personal time.

[Edited 2016-03-25 08:11:07]
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
photopilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:24 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
almost forgot, did you ever figure out how much your lavish vacation days cost the consumer? It's us who have to foot that bill.

My days off don't cost the consumer anything. If you don't like the allowance my employer gives me, then you have the free choice not to purchase any of my companies products or services.

As an FYI, here is what I get annually for time off.
25 vacation days
11 statutory holidays
56 hours Personal Time

Now this is a combination of Annual Leave which increased due to length of service, legal days off as Stats, and negotiated Personal Days which we now use in place of what used to be called sick days. The Personal time is calculated in hours because if you need an hour two off for a doctor's appointment, dentist, picking up you kid as school, etc, than you use that hour bank. Once you exhaust it, your time is then unpaid.

While you might think these benefits are "lavish", well when you go looking for a job (or when you did), pay is just one aspect of compensation. Benefits, vacation, stock options, pension, etc, etc, should all be part of what you negotiate with an employer when you decide to join their company. If you didn't then you have nobody else to blame except yourself. I made the decision to only look to sell my services to those employers who met my minimum needs for Total Compensation.
 
PlunaCRJ
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:26 pm

Uruguay is, since the early twentieth century, completely secular. That mean renaming many of the year´s holidays.
Ester week here´s named "Tourism Week"- "Semana de Turismo"- and is used by most people as a last chance to go out and enjoy nice and hot weather before the winter. It´s completely secularized.
Christmas is "Family Day", etc, etc,
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
Where you taking the certainty that your employer would give you the extra 11 days as paid holidays if the statutory holidays would be eliminated?

by law i am only entitled to 20 days paid vaca, yet me and most people in Germany have more paid vacation, even beyond 30 days is not unhead of.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
That's your personal choice. Many of us rather take the extra time off. Not to mention that many of us are on salary - longer work hours mean just lost of our personal time.

I think you missunderstood. I have no intention to give up free time for more money, quite simply if a public holiday gets removed, he either has to give me higher pay or one more paid vacation day. I take the vacation day. I just want that day to be at my disposal, and not be forced to stay off work when stores are closed and traveling is extra expensive. Weather today sucks balls, never ever would i have taken today off. I´d rather have one more day for my US or my Chile vacation this year.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
typically German, complaining on a very high Level.

So, if someone steals my wallet i have no reason to compain, because i still have money?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
almost forgot, did you ever figure out how much your lavish vacation days cost the consumer? It's us who have to foot that bill.

Nothing. If i had less vacation days, i would demand higher pay.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
Not to mention that many of us are on salary - longer work hours mean just lost of our personal time.

A contract is only valid if it is clear. If you have a fixed monthly salery, your contract also gives the number of hours you have to work. As one of my friends told her boss when he mentioned "i noticed that you always come and leave on time and i don´t like that": "Nice of you to mention it, i noticed you always pay me the same amount of money every month and i don´t like that either".

Overtime is future time off or extra pay. If it isn´t, your boss is pulling you over a barral.

Signing a contract without the intention to follow it, like writing 40 hours/week knowing damn well to demand 48 hours/week is a criminal offense. Fraudulent representation to obtain a contract my dictionary says...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19541
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:11 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 8):
public holidays are effectively expropriated vacation days.

Depends who you work for. The company I worked for allowed employees to 'flex' public holidays and take them when they wanted to, not when the Government decided we should.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
Eliminating public holidays would lead to people having even less off time than they have now around here.

That really depends how progressive your employer is.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25045
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:20 pm

Keep things the way they are. In the UK and Ireland we are still Christian countries and its tradition. If people do not want to join in then they are free to do whatever they want including travel abroad. For those who are not religious they still enjoy time off work so everyone is free to do what they want with that time off. It is as much a time to meet with friends and family as it is religious. The magic of Christmas for kids is something I would not want to see ditched because there are a few sad old farts who moan.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:04 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
The company I worked for allowed employees to 'flex' public holidays and take them when they wanted to, not when the Government decided we should

I like that. Going into the suggestion box next week.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
That really depends how progressive your employer is.

and how agrressive and confident their employees are.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
The magic of Christmas for kids is something I would not want to see ditched because there are a few sad old farts who moan.

Feeding children a load of crap is nothing we should hold on too. We overcame other dear and valued traditions, like how women are inferior to men or Kings are Kings because god willed them to as well. Thank God religion is on the way out in many places. Religious extremism is a pretty good indicator for populations as a whole moving away from religion.

In my experiance spending an afternoon with a kid doing little physical and chemical experiments beats xmas 7 days a week in terms of experianced "magic".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:37 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
. Religious extremism is a pretty good indicator for populations as a whole moving away from religion.

Not really as most extremists come from countries where also the general population is deeply religious.

Anyway, personally I really don't really give a damn about the religious side of Christmas, nor do I care about the commercial side that much either. However I still think it's a nice little tradition to have, nothing bad about people spending time together, eating well and giving each other some gifts. All in all Christmas is a rather positive tradition with few bad sides.

Oh and easter, the actual topic. I don't think easter really has ever meant to me anything but extra free time and chocolate eggs.

Obviously when possible people should be able to choose when to spend their holiday time, but in certain professions where everybody has to follow the same schedule traditional Christian holidays offer a good base.

[Edited 2016-03-25 10:48:06]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25045
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:38 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 23):
Feeding children a load of crap is nothing we should hold on too. We overcame other dear and valued traditions, like how women are inferior to men or Kings are Kings because god willed them to as well. Thank God religion is on the way out in many places. Religious extremism is a pretty good indicator for populations as a whole moving away from religion.

Plenty of families I know with kids who are not religious and never go to church but they still enjoy Christmas with the kids. It does no harm. Enough war and bad things in this world already which people should be more concerned about than a few days of holidays being axed.

Doing science and learning is what kids get sent to school for  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 18):
My days off don't cost the consumer anything. If you don't like the allowance my employer gives me, then you have the free choice

this was not directed to you, that was a direct reply to a posting by tommy1808. I also know that Canada is a better place to work than your southern neighbour where some poor fellows really have only 10 days vacation and if they work for Amazon they better don't take them.
 
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:16 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 24):
Not really as most extremists come from countries where also the general population is deeply religious.

Is that because they are really deeply religious or do they just pretend because of adverse social and legal reactions to not being deeply religious? The Bertelsman Foundation has an ongoing project about religiosity and while your observation may be correct comparing with many EU nations, that doesn´t make it a general rule. People in the USA pray more than people in Turkey or Israel, heck, more US citizens pray every day than citizens of Iran. In Iran that is only 40%, hardly what i call deeply religious.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 25):
Plenty of families I know with kids who are not religious and never go to church but they still enjoy Christmas with the kids.

Well, of course. So do i. Heck, i even enjoy xmas music. I would just as much enjoy a four day weekend over "national science days", only that it would be the magic of reality and not the magic of Batman vs. Superman. Which is fun, but you don´t see many families coming out of the theater telling their kids "Yes Kids, they are both real and when you don´t behave superman is going to come and burn your skin of with his laser eyes .....:"
Which pretty much sums up classical religious education in many religions...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 25):
Doing science and learning is what kids get sent to school for

They don´t have enough time to properly explain things. If they would, kids would have special relativity down pat in 6th grade.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 25):
Enough war and bad things

well...



best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:24 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
I also know that Canada is a better place to work than your southern neighbour where some poor fellows really have only 10 days vacation

I do believe the minumum of paid vacation in the USA by law is still: zero days

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22031
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:06 pm

Given that something like 95% of the U.S. population is at least nominally Christian and at least 70% of the U.S. population actually identifies as Christian, I think this is a pretty silly complaint.

And I say that as someone who was raised Jewish, i.e. never was a Christian.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 21):
That really depends how progressive your employer is.

No. It has nothing to do with the employer being progressive. As we are only expense centers now, it all comes down to money. If the employer is willing to pay it, we'll get it. Otherwise no.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
I think you missunderstood. I have no intention to give up free time for more money, quite simply if a public holiday gets removed, he either has to give me higher pay or one more paid vacation day.

It's up to a negotiation between you and your employer. if you are important for him, you may succeed. Otherwise tough luck.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
If you have a fixed monthly salery, your contract also gives the number of hours you have to work. As one of my friends told her boss when he mentioned "i noticed that you always come and leave on time and i don´t like that": "Nice of you to mention it, i noticed you always pay me the same amount of money every month and i don´t like that either".

I fully agree with you. But if you are in the current labour market place, you're competing against young careerist willing to do everything to move on to higher positions. It's tough to maintain this stance.
However, when in my home office, I keep the 8 hour time unless there is an emergency or an important project. Out of the office I work often 13 -14 hour days just because I have nothing else to do. Then I have no problems to leave for a doctor's appointment if I have to.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
Overtime is future time off or extra pay. If it isn´t, your boss is pulling you over a barral.

I take time off only for work/travel over weekends.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 20):
Signing a contract without the intention to follow it, like writing 40 hours/week knowing damn well to demand 48 hours/week is a criminal offense. Fraudulent representation to obtain a contract my dictionary says...

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like this around here. But you're absolutely right.

[Edited 2016-03-25 13:14:09]
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:13 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 26):
I also know that Canada is a better place to work than your southern neighbour where some poor fellows really have only 10 days vacation and if they work for Amazon they better don't take them.

Actually, what Photopilot described is not a norm. It's rather an exemption nowadays and indicates a great place to work. Tat meas it's very difficult to get in there and the new hires may have much worse conditions than he has.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:15 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 30):
Otherwise tough luck.

It is legal in Canada to sign a contract without intending to keep up your end?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25045
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:31 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 27):
well...

Well they claim to be religious if there was no religion they would just do it in another name most likely nationalities or races.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:31 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 32):
It is legal in Canada to sign a contract without intending to keep up your end?


The contract contained granting all statutory holidays. Once these become non-statutory, it's up to negotiation. So by not granting these, the employer wouldn't break the contract.

[Edited 2016-03-25 13:35:05]
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:36 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 34):
But please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

Well, of course many people here wait with sueing until after they left the company. Overtime pay for 2 to 3 years makes a nice severance package.
That way should be open to Canadian employees as well.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:52 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 35):
That way should be open to Canadian employees as well.

It's open to everybody. The problem is that people are negligent in maintaining a paper trail necessary for these.
That said, there are employers (including mine) that would rather pay a severance package instead of being subject of a trial.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 36):
That said, there are employers (including mine) that would rather pay a severance package instead of being subject of a trial.

I just call those employers "smart"  

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3420
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:10 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 27):

So then if there was a world without religion what would be the point if having good values(that come from religions today)?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3210
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:14 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 37):
I just call those employers "smart"

They are smart. It's most likely cheaper.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:34 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 38):
So then if there was a world without religion what would be the point if having good values(that come from religions today)?

Good values don't come from religion, and never have. If you need a religion to tell you how not to be an asshole, there's something wrong with you.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:47 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 40):
Good values don't come from religion, and never have

  
Actually many religious texts offer the most disgusting moral rules ever written down.

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 38):

So then if there was a world without religion what would be the point if having good values(

The golden rule. Aside of that I'd suggest you read Kant and Hume, both answered your question when the USA where still a British colony.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 39):
They are smart. It's most likely cheaper.

Exactly

Quoting OA260 (Reply 33):

Well they claim to be religious if there was no religion they would just do it in another name most likely nationalities or races.

Unlikely. In order to become a nationalist or racists you pretty much need to stop critical thinking. And nothing teaches that better than religious education.
Imagine Hitler in Nürnberg, in front of 100.000 people "jews are the cancer of today's society", and the crowd, with one voice, screams "Mr. Hitler, do you have sufficient empirical data to back that claim up?"

And well.. Atheist suicide bombers... nah, sorry.. kinda hard to see that.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25045
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:01 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 41):
And well.. Atheist suicide bombers... nah, sorry.. kinda hard to see that.

 



Radical Atheists Kill 29 In Middle East Suicide Bombing

A group of radical atheists claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in Iraq today.

This morning the normally peaceful southern town of Al-Lamkan was rocked by a powerful explosion in a crowded fruit market that killed 29 people and injured over 50.

In a video uploaded to YouTube, a group known as the Charles Darwin Martyr Brigades (CDMB) said two of its members were responsible for the carnage and threatened more violence against Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs and other religious groups.

http://dailycurrant.com/2014/07/29/r...29-in-middle-east-suicide-bombing/
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12603
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:46 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
So once again we (in North America at least) get a long weekend and a day off work

Well, I'm sitting here at work on Friday, and I'll be back on Monday (I'm just lucky that I don't have to go in tomorrow).

Quoting Tugger (Reply 11):
I don't ever recall getting an "Easter" day off.

Me neither.

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 38):
So then if there was a world without religion what would be the point if having good values(that come from religions today)?

I've heard this before - "without religion, where do you get your values/morals from???"

It makes me wonder....why do you need religion to guide you in order to determine your morals/values? Are people incapable of figuring that stuff out based on all the other stuff in life?

My morals and values don't come from religion. Literally, religion was not a part of my upbringing at all. It never even crossed my mind as something I should look into.

My morals come from not wanting to hurt others, and generally, not wanting to be an @sshole.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:08 am

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 38):
So then if there was a world without religion what would be the point if having good values(that come from religions today)?

Let me guess, “Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned..." encourages good values?

I don't think so.

Things like confession make people believe they can get away with doing things as long as they go and ask for forgiveness from the guy on the other side of the confession booth, who himself could be a criminal or paedophile given what we are learning about the higher ups in some religions...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
photopilot
Topic Author
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:14 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 44):
Things like confession make people believe they can get away with doing things as long as they go and ask for forgiveness from the guy on the other side of the confession booth,

Reminds me of that old joke about the kid who prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed for a full year to be given a new bicycle. When that didn't work he went out and stole one, then prayed for forgiveness!  
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 45):
Reminds me of that old joke about the kid who prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed for a full year to be given a new bicycle. When that didn't work he went out and stole one, then prayed for forgiveness!

LOL

Nowadays the kid wouldn't bother praying first. The kid would go straight out and steal the bike and head straight to confession!
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4494
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:00 am

Of course the powers at be are doing all they can to stamp Christianity out of modern society. They are constantly falling over themselves to secularise us all even more and steer us further in the direction of being a neoliberal paradise. One can be reasonably sure that in the next twenty years, Christmas will have been replaced with capitalism day where we worship Adam Smith and spend time with our families at the mall. Meanwhile other cultures and religions will be welcomed with open arms and taught as much more valid than anything Christian ever was.  
First to fly the 787-9
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:39 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):
Radical Atheists Kill 29 In Middle East Suicide Bombing

I do hope that you do.know that the daily current is a satirical magazine, right?

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 47):
Meanwhile other cultures and religions will be welcomed with open arms and taught as much more valid than anything Christian ever was

Na, all equally worthless at best and dangerous for.the most part.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 47):
One can be reasonably sure that in the next twenty years, Christmas will have been replaced with capitalism day where we worship Adam Smith and spend time with our families at the mall.

Odd how the most Christian western country is also the most capitalistic and least social of the bunch, and how the most atheistic western countries have the highest quality of life worldwide and have among the most happy people in the west as well.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 46):
Nowadays the kid wouldn't bother praying first. The kid would go straight out and steal the bike and head straight to confession!

Well, we live in the time of big data and if there was any difference between religions and more or less faithful people we would have found it by now.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 44):
who himself could be a criminal or paedophile given what we are learning about the higher ups in some religions...

What do you expect from religions that worthships a paedophilephile?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
WearyDrover
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:12 am

RE: Easter -- Secular Or Religious?

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:52 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
they can deal with that or go elsewhere.

I haven't seen much evidence of immigrants demanding the scrapping of public holidays. In fact, here in Perth the greatest demand comes from the Retail Trades Association. Although there are 10 public holidays, retail shops are only legally required to be closed on three of them: Good Friday, Anzac Day and Christmas Day. In contrast, motor vehicle dealers are not permitted to trade on any public holiday. Why the difference?

Of course there are plenty of others who can or need to work on public holidays, ranging from hospitals, airports, filling stations, restaurants and police officers. In those occupational groups there is great flexibility and there is no rational reason why that flexibility could not be extended to other areas. Public holidays could be annualised without significant, if any, costs to a greater range of occupations.
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JJJ and 67 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos