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AR385
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Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:42 am

So today i was watching a documentary on CNN on Near Death Experiencies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience

Four stories of people who were declared clinically death, and then saw lights, relatives, lots of love, something akin to heaven but despite all the love they felt surrounded with, deceased people they knew (or somebody else) told them it was not their time and so they headed back and woke up (resuscitated?) to the the surprise of the many medical staff.

So there are many books and documentaries and such of these stories.

But, I´ve never heard a single story of someone who had same experience but saw no such bright lights or love or loving deceased relatives. Instead, they saw a dark, underground headed tunnel where only flames, heat, pain, and bad, bad emotions all around. In short, no Near Death Experience of people who got returned when they were headed to Hell.

Why is this?

1. Censorship
2. NDEs are crap, fictional stories
3. Hell does not exist.

Any ideas?
 
SmithAir747
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:11 am

There are claims of NDE "tours" of hell.

One example is Mary K. Baxter, who wrote the book A Divine Revelation of Hell, where she claims to have been taken on a tour of hell (over a period of a month, IIRC), showing different levels and types of punishment for different sins and sinners. Jesus was the "tour guide" in this experience.

Also, google "NDE hell" and you will see many claimed hellbound NDEs.

Most of the stories have an evangelistic purpose.

Even as a Christian, I still do not take much stock in NDEs--either positive or negative. So many of the stories are sensationalized (especially the more commonly publicized heaven ones) and full of dubious theology (plus some writers of NDE books have made enormous money off them). The weirdest hell NDE I've read online featured sinners burning in a special part of hell reserved for those who did not tithe to their churches (yes, this one taught that if you don't tithe, even if you're Christian, you still go to hell for that).

Scientifically, NDEs are probably the result of cerebral hypoxia, among other theories.

SmithAir747
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Tugger
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:45 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Four stories of people who were declared clinically death, and then saw lights, relatives, lots of love, something akin to heaven but despite all the love they felt surrounded with, deceased people they knew (or somebody else) told them it was not their time and so they headed back and woke up (resuscitated?) to the the surprise of the many medical staff.

Oddly we don't ever hear about the people that experience this and are told it is not their time etc. and then die....

Funny... so wierd...  
.
Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
2. NDEs are crap, fictional stories

   on the crap, though I have no doubt that those who have the experience honestly believe them to be "fact" (for them).

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
3. Hell does not exist.

   on this, hell does not exist. No reason for it to exist.

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 1):
Scientifically, NDEs are probably the result of cerebral hypoxia, among other theories.

  

Tugg
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Airstud
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:59 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
NDEs are crap, fictional stories

Not possible to address that without addressing broadcasters questions of epistemology.

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Hell does not exist.

This. The cartoonish notion of fire & pitchforks is fine for cartoons & movies, but it doesn't fit into any of the theologies claimed to be espoused by those who preach & "warn" of hell.

I read somewhere that contemporary Christian thought reframes hell as any place outside the Kingdom of God, rather than as a place o' punishment.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:56 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
2. NDEs are crap, fictional stories

I don't believe they are crap, as in, I believe the person might indeed have experienced what they say, but only in their heads, so to speak. Even in clinical death, the brain still has some electrons bouncing around for some short amount of time. So I'm not surprised that people have weird experiences. Sort of like dreams, but a different scenario.

Of course, I'm not a neurologist, so that's just my layman's opinion.
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jetwet1
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:18 am

Let me add a little to this interesting thread.

Last year I died, thankfully I happened to be on an operating table getting ready for surgery and they were able to revive me, of course, i'm typing this after all, the alternative is a whole different thread lol.

Anyways, I can tell you that I heard the heart monitor flat line, someone say "oh" then nothing, no light, no fire, nothing, now, my heart stopped for about a minute according to the doctor, so some would argue that is not enough time for anything to appear, but I am now firmly in the mind that when we die, there is nothing.

In talking to others who have gone through this, I have found there are two camps, the first is totally freaked out that there is nothing when we die, the second (which I am part off) actually found it very freeing, it's made me understand that we should enjoy the heck out of the very short time we have.



Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
I don't believe they are crap, as in, I believe the person might indeed have experienced what they say, but only in their heads, so to speak. Even in clinical death, the brain still has some electrons bouncing around for some short amount of time. So I'm not surprised that people have weird experiences. Sort of like dreams, but a different scenario.

I can see that, there also may be a little bit of false memory going on there, what i mean is the way they cope with the situation is to imagine it happened.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:33 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
I believe the person might indeed have experienced what they say, but only in their heads, so to speak.

A lot like being sleep paralysed. People experience angels, aliens, demons on what not...
Heck, our brain is in the business of screwing us over 24/7 by creating a whole virtual reality and giving us the illusion of free will. Of course it is also still working when operated outside its design parameters.....

Best regards
Thomas
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Francoflier
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:40 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):

Didn't they also recently find a 'God' part of the brain which, when excited, makes one experience strange 'religious' type of feelings?
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scbriml
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:01 am

It seems odd to me that many of these experiences occur in an operating theatre while the person is surrounded by a medical team. When recovered, they report seeing lights and hearing voices?   
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Airstud
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:08 am

"We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are." - The Talmud
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:15 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 6):

A lot like being sleep paralysed. People experience angels, aliens, demons on what

This. As someone who experiences sleep paralysis and the associated hallucinations of intense sights and sounds somewhat regularly, I believe NDEs to be similar type of activity in the brain that is interpreted as a real physical experience.
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Airstud
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
without addressing broadcasters questions

BROADER questions; BROADER, I say!!!!!

Damn auto correct   
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Kiwirob
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 1):

Even as a Christian

I must admit that I'm shocked that a man of science such as yourself would believe in this fairy tail.
 
wingman
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:32 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Instead, they saw a dark, underground headed tunnel where only flames, heat, pain, and bad, bad emotions all around. In short, no Near Death Experience of people who got returned when they were headed to Hell.

I bet Dick Cheney knows the answer. He's been dead about 5-6 times and it's a proven fact he's going straight to hell when his heart finally explodes. Kind of a nightmare to think of Satan taking his counsel.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
I must admit that I'm shocked that a man of science such as yourself would believe in this fairy tail.

You must be shocked quite often. There are millions of scientists who are also religious. It's nothing surprising or new.
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csturdiv
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:56 pm

I have had a NDE, woke up from a coma in intensive care on a respirator, but do not recall any visits from deceased relatives, seeing any lights or anything like that. I think that anything that I heard was when I was coming out of the coma and heard was my family that was in my room.
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sebolino
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
Why is this?

1. Censorship
2. NDEs are crap, fictional stories
3. Hell does not exist.

Any ideas?

3.

I'm not saying that heaven exists ! But honestly, a place where you will burn because you were not nice, come on !  

I have to change my answer: yes, hell exists. But it's here, on our earth, in our every day life. We sometimes touch hell with the hand. And some people know exactly what it is.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:58 pm

Quoting sebolino (Reply 16):
3.


Well, the less credible a threat is, the bigger the punishment musst be to have any effect.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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PITingres
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:44 pm

I like the Niven/Pournelle concept in their "Inferno"; a take-off on Dante, but the underlying notion is that Hell is a behavior modification device, in a sense, and its ultimate purpose is to become empty. If there is a Hell, that's the only one that makes sense to me. (Leaving the medieval fantasy details aside, of course.)

Whether heaven or hell exists is unknowable and basically irrelevant. "I tell you, they have their reward" applies to good as well as bad, no afterlife needed IMHO.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:58 am

I have no idea if NDE's are real or not, but if it is mostly Christians who experience them (is it...?) then maybe that fits in with their beliefs.

My understanding of the Christian teaching (beyond you go to heaven when you die kind of thing) is that hell is future. When a "Christian" dies their spirit goes to be with Jesus which is a temporary situation. When Jesus comes, first the Christians who already died will be raised then the Christians alive will be raised to join them and then they will actually be in heaven, but they will be physically changed, only the never dieing spirit remains throughout. For a non Christian there is nothing immediately after death, the spirit goes to Hades (which means the place of departed spirits). Those persons will then all be raised too, but for judgment at the great white throne according to Revelation and its only at that time they will be cast into the lake of fire, along with Satan and his agents. Something like that anyway...

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
The cartoonish notion of fire & pitchforks is fine for cartoons & movies, but it doesn't fit into any of the theologies claimed to be espoused by those who preach & "warn" of hell.

I think he is supposed to be quite beautiful according to somewhere in the old testament, Ezekiel or somewhere I think, he is a fallen angel - and there is no salvation for angels if they sin.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
I read somewhere that contemporary Christian thought reframes hell as any place outside the Kingdom of God, rather than as a place o' punishment.

It wouldnt fit in with the bible, unless they discount the Revelation, as it clearly refers to a lake of fire, though its not called "hell" AFAIK. Of course a lot of it is assumed to be symbolic, but I hadnt heard anyone suggest hell was before.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 7):
Didn't they also recently find a 'God' part of the brain which, when excited, makes one experience strange 'religious' type of feelings?

So in summary - how many of these people who claim to have these things are Christians? If many are, then I guess the God part of the brain is the bit that stays alive lol
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Kiwirob
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 14):
There are millions of scientists who are also religious.

I didn't realise L. Ron Hubbard had that many followers.
 
coolian2
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:31 pm

My ex nearly got wiped in a car crash.

She remembered the following from her NDE:

That is all.

[Edited 2016-03-31 13:31:40]
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747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
tommy1808
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
I didn't realise L. Ron Hubbard had that many followers.

Well, many scientists do believe in a sort of God of Spinoza. When it comes to a personal god that listens to players and takes an interest in our life.... most follow Albert Einstein "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Cadet985
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:18 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):

None of us can say for certain what happens after we die. In 1993, my dad flatlined twice during angioplasty. He saw a bright light and clouds, and felt no fear or anything. He felt completely at peace.

Now doctors and scientists can try to explain NDE's all they want, but in my opinion, it comes down to faith. Other than a small fib, or keeping a surprise secret, my dad has never lied to me. I believe him.

In college, I took a class on the Old Testament. While I don't explicitly remember the Bible saying what happens in the world to come - which is a belief in Judaism, the instructor - a Modern Orthodox rabbi - spent a class talking just about what we believe happens after death in the Jewish beliefs. We believe that we will stand before G-d Himself and be judged. Most souls will not get directly into Heaven. They will instead spend up to a year in a sort of not Heaven, but not Hell.

Regarding NDE's and Hell, there used to be a show on one of the Discovery Networks about NDE's called "I Survived: Beyond and Back", and not everyone featured on the show went to Heaven. There were more than a few cases involving Heaven and Hell that left me with chills. While no two stories of either were identical, there were a lot of similarities - many talked about Heaven as lush grass and flowers as far as the eye could see, and about Hell, they would often mention feelings of rage, torment, etc.

Truthfully, I don't think anyone - regular person, doctor, scientist, the Pope, etc. can say for certain what happens after death.

I hope I have a long time before I find out.

Marc
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:03 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 23):
We believe that we will stand before G-d Himself and be judged. Most souls will not get directly into Heaven. They will instead spend up to a year in a sort of not Heaven, but not Hell.

And who informed the jewish people that this was what will happen?

What really happens when you die nobody knows, it's a surprise. Me personally I think when the lights go out thats it, end of story, your time is up, believing that there is anything beyond what we have now is pointless.

Living you life in the here and now is far better for a person than living a life for an afterlife which probably doesn't exist.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:36 pm

First off i am NOT a neurologist, but i also wonder if your body knows when its about to give up (Die) and sends chemicals throughout your body to calm you down. I think your body knows when it's dying. this might explain why
so many people experience something.



i had a close relative of mine who was thrown from car and the car landed on her crushing her. She was out in the middle of no where in Wyoming and it was a good hour before medics reached her . The Doctors assured our family that she was in no pain after about 10 minutes that the body releases chemicals so that she would't feel much.. I don't know if the doctors are trained to say that to make the family feel better. I suspected that is why they told us that.
My family believed ever word and said at least she didn't suffer for that hour. I was not so sure.

However, when my sister's husband sister was brutally murdered she was stabbed about 30 times by a mentally ill man that she had let into her home to feed. ( She was a good person had the IQ of a 10 year old due to swimming accident as a child)) Anyway, the doctors also said that after a short time she also was in no pain, because of the body releasing chemicals, even though it took her a while to bleed out. She wasn't found until the next day.

so there is it again Doctors telling family members about this chemical that is released. I wonder if this chemical is also released when a body is about to give up. Perhaps that explains why NDE happen, just a thought

[Edited 2016-04-01 14:37:31]

[Edited 2016-04-01 14:40:09]
 
britannia25
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:01 pm

Hi

I don't know why i read your post but I did. If you have been following my thread/blog on here then you will know that I am in my early 30s and I am facing it. Head on. My fears are gone and in my mind then there is no heaven and there is no hell. My fears are not for myself, when it's game over, it's game over. Lights out, bye bye. It's like going to sleep but you never wake up. Nothing to fear in that. My fear is pain in the living and what you leave behind, plus there is a bit of resentment and anger too. Nobody should worry about what comes after but worry about now and what is here in the moment. Hell? In some ways, I am already there so it cant be any worse. But interesting post

Best
BY
 
britannia25
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RE: Near Death Experiences And Hell

Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:40 pm

As a half joke point, I hope when it is the final call (airline joke there lol) then I am gone completely. That might be hard to hear but i dont want to go on somewhere and be stuck with people i didn't even like much. day in day out. No, i will ejnoy what's left and i hope it's a good year or two, maybe more. I will enjoy the time with those that i love and watching the debates on here  

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