Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting Acheron (Reply 49): Not really, no. Both incite violence. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 46): Bnned organisations were e.g. the Communist Party of Germany, which in the 1960s fought for a Soviet system. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 51): "Thou shall have no government other than ours |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54): The extreme left communist Party was dissolved by the court, |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54): Right now there is a case pending to ban the extreme right NPD. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54): And finally to your opinion that Germany does not have "free speech", why then does the use of the N word fall under free speech in the USA? |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 54): The is a democratic process which is similar in all western Democracies. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 55): That's a nice free country you have there where opposition parties can be banned by the courts...that are an extension of the government. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56): A political Party cannot be banned by "Courts" but only by one court and that court has to follow strict procedures. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56): Maybe you have heard of impeachment which is a similar democratic process in the USA |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56): What about Nipple Gate? |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56): What about the censorship in the USA that certain periodicals cannot be forwareded by US Mail and offenders will be penalized? |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 56): Censorship by beeping oiut certain words on TV and Radio? The land of the free in times of political correctnessß What a laugh. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4): Luckily enough Germany has managed to turn back and become a respected member of the civilized world. We could not have achieved that by allowing Nazi Emblems to be used by the few thousand block heads who still worship the "old" days. That's why These symbols and the Auschwitz lie are illegal. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 55): the courts...that are an extension of the government. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): Yet, a political party can still be banned. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): That is acceptable to you? |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): That a political viewpoint can be suppressed by government action? |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): I assume that someone that continues to espouse the ideals of the banned party can be sanctioned by the government, to include prison? |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): Impeachment is the process in which an elected or appointed official is removed from office. So? |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 57): Correct. That is censorship, but it is not political censorship. The people through their elected representatives have decided that |
Quoting L-188 (Reply 58): But the idea that if somebody brings/restores a vintage WWII German aircraft or builds a model of one and can't put authentic Luftwaffe markings of the period (which included the swastica as a tail flash" then I do have a problem with it. |
Quoting L-188 (Reply 58): But the idea that if somebody brings/restores a vintage WWII German aircraft or builds a model of one and can't put authentic Luftwaffe markings of the period (which included the swastica as a tail flash" then I do have a problem with it. |
Quoting L-188 (Reply 58): Trying to limit hate speech is one thing, but denying it happened by prohibiting it's use is something else, particularly seventy odd years after the fact. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 46): you can use them for scientific or educational purposes, e.g. in a history book. museum or in a movie, as long as Nazism isn't being glorified |
Quoting aloges (Reply 59): Yikes... if that was the case, I'd have to wonder why our courts - and particularly the Constitutional Court - has so often ruled against the government. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 59): It's not a political viewpoint suppressed by government action, it's a political organisation banned by court action. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 59): You assume wrongly. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60): Should that Senate of the Constitutional Court finds that the NPD violates the constitution, the Party will be outlawed, their property confiscated and showing their enblems will become a punishable offence. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60): Each and every one of the items and many more are poltical censorship, probably based on public Consensus but that doesn't Change the fact that laws censor. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60): OTH Germany is not a Police state, we don't raid private homes to search for such symbols. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 61): I'm not even sure it's actually illegal, but what would be the point of putting the swastika on a museum aircraft anyway? It's not like people don't understand that a German military aircraft from WW2 would have carried that mark. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 63): Now, if a law is enacted that violates The Constitution, the courts deal with it. Much like Germany, it's our separation of powers...checks and balances. The courts keep the people in check and the people keep the courts in check. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 35): I disagree. There is a difference between: "All 'x' should be killed" and "Go kill all 'x'". |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 51): Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 46): Bnned organisations were e.g. the Communist Party of Germany, which in the 1960s fought for a Soviet system. So, dissenting political parties were (are) outlawed? "Thou shall have no government other than ours" ? |
Quoting aloges (Reply 61): I'm not even sure it's actually illegal, but what would be the point of putting the swastika on a museum aircraft anyway? It's not like people don't understand that a German military aircraft from WW2 would have carried that mark. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 61): I'm not even sure it's actually illegal, but what would be the point of putting the swastika on a museum aircraft anyway? It's not like people don't understand that a German military aircraft from WW2 would have carried that mark. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60): Where do you draw the line? Germany had to make a complete turn-around to become a valid member of the civilized world community after 1945. Where do you draw the line? If you allow the Swastika on a Me109 you have to allow the swastika on a belt buckle or other Militaria as well. OTH Germany is not a Police state, we don't raid private homes to search for such symbols |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 66): Actually, in 1934 (after Hindenburg's death) the Nazis declared their party flag (the Sawastika flag) to be the new state flag (instead of the black-red-gold of German democracy) and passed a law that any German aircraft (cutting edge technology at the time, and good for showing off) would have to have the Swastika flag pained on it's tail. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 66): Hitler was the impersonation of the Nazi party and the Nazi party was Germany. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 65): You are free to voice your dissent as long as it is within the democratc spectrum, |
Quoting L-188 (Reply 68): Just like the Democrats was Obama to be the impersonation of the Democratic Pary and the Democratic party as the United States. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 69): Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 65): You are free to voice your dissent as long as it is within the democratc spectrum, Can a person, self-identified as a Nazi, run for office as a member of the Nazi Party...or some similar party? |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 71): Their aim is to get to power and never ever to relinquish it. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 71): , like the NPD, which is currently undergoing the banning process |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 72): And, that is what I can't wrap my mind around. A free nation banning a political party because that party disagrees with the current constitution. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 72): A free nation banning a political party because that party disagrees with the current constitution. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 69): Can a person, self-identified as a Nazi, run for office as a member of the Nazi Party...or some similar party? |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 72): And, that is what I can't wrap my mind around. A free nation banning a political party because that party disagrees with the current constitution. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 74): Once again: We had a totalitarian dictatorship on our soil until 1990. You in the US did not. That kind of thing leaves a mark on a society. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 75): and he is dead right, except that we had 2 totalitarian dictarships, One between 1933 and 1945 and the second in East Germany between 1949 and 1989. We never ever want that again. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 74): Once again: We had a totalitarian dictatorship on our soil until 1990. You in the US did not. That kind of thing leaves a mark on a society. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 75): Yes, but he has to take into account that his Party will be banned if he plans a coup d'etat and turn Germany into a dictatorship again. . Germany has the best constitution the Country ever had, we want to Keep it that way. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 75): I have really tried with Patience to explain that a free Country Needs mechanism to stay free and that includes a supreme court ruling to Close a political Party. |
Quoting aloges (Reply 74): What will land you in trouble is plotting to overthrow the system, which is basically a form of treason anyway. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): if that party is a mortal threat to the current government. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): a free unbiased press |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): , that the government has to suppress those people for fear that the will of the people become realized |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 79): He does not have the right to organise the destruction of democracy by disrupting other party meeting, attacking people in public, assassinations or planting bombs. |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 79): Is there such a thing? |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 79): Deciding on whether a party or organisation should be legal is not taken lightly. |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 79): Is there a single country in the West where recruiting members and raising money for ISIS is legal? |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 79): One general point: anyone who lives in a civil society is never completely free. No-one can choose to do whatever they like but has to accept compromises and restrictions for the benefit of all. We have restrictions on where you can walk, what you can do, where you can build, what you can grow. That doesn't mean that those societies aren't free. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 80): and, you do not have a right to not be offended |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 81): Actually, I do. If a person makes a deliberately insulting, slanderous or libellous comment I do have the right to be offended and in some circumstances may seek redress at law |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 81): Oddly enough, denying the right to be offended could be seen as a curtailment of freedom of speech. |
Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 81): Colonists in Boston were offended by having to pay taxes but having little say in government. We all know where that led. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): So, running on a platform of "changing the current system", i.e. bringing back fascism, is illegal? I believe that's a problem. Realistically, what you're telling me is that there are enough people in Germany that want to live under fascism, that the government has to suppress those people for fear that the will of the people become realized. |
Quoting PanHAM (Thread starter): Mr. Erdogan thinks that his power extends into Europe |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): Again, you are not free then. |
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 78): The mechanism is free and open elections with a free unbiased press. |
Quoting lewis (Reply 84): Considering that. so far, Mr Erdogan says jump and the rest of Europe reinacts Cirque Du Soleil acts, why wouldn't he think that his power |