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MaverickM11
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:49 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 104):
He says things no Pope has ever said before, and not just about sexuality. He criticizes his own church, its banks that launder money for the mafia, he attacks ministers and cardinals and fires them when possible. What we're seeing is that the Pope hasn't as much power as it seems.

He's certainly the least awful pope, ever? But religion gets so much more difficult when it doesn't confirm your preexisting beliefs and lifestyle 
Quoting Tugger (Reply 146):
Just for your reference... since 2010–present:

It just underlines how unbelievably @#(&*[email protected]# nasty the GOP can be today, stripping one of the most brutalized minorities in the country of one of their few dignities.

Quoting bhill (Reply 144):
And as the Pope is "God's Representative on Earth" why he just does not speak God's desire and put a end to this once and for all....

   maybe stop molesting kids while he's at it? Just thinking out loud.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 138):
Would you also say the same thing about the Quoran, or are you more comfortable slamming Christianity which is far more accepting of the homosexual?

Christianity is "more accepting" because they've been dragged against their will into it. We'd still have segregation, teach creationism, and god knows what else if we were sensitive to "sincerely held religious beliefs".
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:52 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 148):
You'll note that he's not the same person who was the source of the original ass-wiping quote, so that's not entirely fair.

It is totally fair because he quoted and responded to my response to that very comment, yet felt it necessary to sugarcoat what he was agreeing to when it came to the Quran.
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 149):
I am not saying that the USA "sanctions" murders, but the "values" some have been taught via religion, including Christianity, create situations where murders occur. And that you are reducing such actions to a "how many over how long" calculation is a bit chilling, these are people who were doing no harm to others. I am simply pointing out that some do still feel that death is acceptable for homosexuals.

I am glad you are admitting it is strawman argument then. Christians (and Jews) are taught "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think even one murder is abhorrent

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 150):
Just for your reference... since 2010–present:

It just underlines how unbelievably @#(&*[email protected]# nasty the GOP can be today, stripping one of the most brutalized minorities in the country of one of their few dignities.

Yes, those were all GOP sanctioned murders in your mind, and nothing anyone could every say would make you think George and Jeb Bush, and that evil father of a lesbian Dick Cheney do not take delight in these murders.
 
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Tugger
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 152):
I am glad you are admitting it is strawman argument then. Christians (and Jews) are taught "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and he who is without sin cast the first stone. I think even one murder is abhorrent

I am actually lighting your strawman and watching it burn instead.

Tugg
 
MaverickM11
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 152):
Yes, those were all GOP sanctioned murders in your mind,

What do you think happens when the GOP casts an entire minority as freaks that are going to molest poor unsuspecting women in the bathroom? You think they get BETTER treatment? Or do you think it gets worse for them?

Quoting afcjets (Reply 152):
I am glad you are admitting it is strawman argument then. Christians (and Jews) are taught "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and he who is without sin cast the first stone.

LOL evangelicals seem to find a lot of footnotes, exceptions, and special circumstances that must not be in my bible. To them the bible is crystal clear on gay marriage, yet there's a lot of wiggle room around "thou shalt not kill" 
 
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zckls04
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:15 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 151):
It is totally fair because he quoted and responded to my response to that very comment, yet felt it necessary to sugarcoat what he was agreeing to when it came to the Quran.

Nobody has ever said these words before, but...."He never claimed to agree that one should wipe one's ass with either book, merely that both books are worthy of being recycled."

In reality his choice of words is likely based on a desire to sound less crass rather than some imaginary fear of Islam.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:25 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 145):
Here is the list of five countries in the world where homosexuality is punishable by death, they all share a common predominant religion. I will give you a hint as to which one it is. It is not Christianity.

Don't think for a second christians wouldn't do the exact same thing given the opportunity
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michel...ignorile/post_10496_b_8544540.html
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:29 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 155):
In reality his choice of words is likely based on a desire to sound less crass rather than some imaginary fear of Islam.

Exactly my point! Yet the poster I responded to that he commented on said the Bible could be used as a toilet paper, )which is used primarily for the purpose of ass wiping.) When it comes to Christianity, no need to sugarcoat, in fact sensationalism is preferred.
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:40 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 156):

Don't think for a second christians wouldn't do the exact same thing given the opportunity

All Christians? Another example of the double standard when it comes to religion. When DT says Islam hates us, the left goes ballisitic, even when he later clarifies by saying a lot of them. But yet one is perfectly comfortable saying Christians would kill you if the could get away with it, without having to qualify that with words like some or many, or a very misguided few.
 
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seb146
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 150):
maybe stop molesting kids while he's at it? Just thinking out loud.

I seriously doubt Pope Frank molested kids. It is horrible that there are church leaders who did it and even more who knew and swept it under the rug. They should absolutely be punished. Defrocked and punished. But I would hesitate to accuse the current pope of touching children.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:43 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 146):
Just for your reference... since 2010–present:

It only shows that making the choice to remove the penis off was a mistake for these people. Some of them also made poor career choices, hooking isn't exactly a safe profession.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:48 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 158):
All Christians? Another example of the double standard when it comes to religion

What double standard? We have two GOP Presidential candidates that have advocated carpet bombing and/or keeping Muslims out of the country. This "woe is us poor christians" act is not based on reality in the US. There is no double standard.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 159):
I seriously doubt Pope Frank molested kids. It is horrible that there are church leaders who did it and even more who knew and swept it under the rug. They should absolutely be punished. Defrocked and punished. But I would hesitate to accuse the current pope of touching children.

I meant the church. I highly doubt he does anything at all untoward.

[Edited 2016-04-13 13:49:55]
 
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zckls04
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 157):
Exactly my point!

No it wasn't. You are claiming a double standard when there's no evidence of such (at least not from the poster you are accusing).

Quoting afcjets (Reply 157):
When it comes to Christianity, no need to sugarcoat, in fact sensationalism is preferred.

What is your actual point in all of this? That because Christians are not as bad as the Muslamics that they can do as they please? I'm struggling to understand where you're coming from.

Do you believe Christians as a group should be more accepting, less accepting or about as accepting of gays?
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 161):
What double standard? We have two GOP Presidential candidates that have advocated carpet bombing and/or keeping Muslims out of the country. This "woe is us poor christians" act is not based on reality in the US. There is no double standard.

I am simply referring to the double standard of how PC must be applied to every group except Christians, that's all. And yes, we all know Donald Trump is not at all PC, so he is definitely the exception.
 
WearyDrover
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 143):
But Jesus was sent to overhaul Jewish law and make it simple. He was sent to boil it all down to one simple life rule: don't be di*ks to each other.

A widely held belief but not necessarily so.

It is true that John 13:34 quotes Jesus as saying, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." But does "new"mean replacement for the old or does it mean "in addition to"?

If it is the former, it stands in contrast to what is reported to have been said in Matthew 5:17-20:
"17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

This is elaborated further in a later passage. In Matthew 22 Jesus is reported to have said, "37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The contrast between the two apparently contrasting positions portrayed by John and Matthew gave rise to the early disputes among his followers, with some arguing against the need for circumcision and dietary laws. But even they retained the provisions regarding homosexual acts. Paul may have proclaimed, "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."in his epistle to the Galatians (5:14).

Yet in that very same epistle he goes on to say, " 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)

As I said above, that's the joy of the Bible. For every verse there is another verse. Why rely on what Jesus may or may not have said? Why not resort to reason rather than scripture because if you rely on the latter those who are opposed to same sex marriage have a far greater number of quotes to select from. Love and condemnation appear side by side.

[Edited 2016-04-13 17:46:37]
 
TheCommodore
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:47 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 138):
Would you also say the same thing about the Quoran

Yes I would.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 138):
or are you more comfortable slamming Christianity which is far more accepting of the homosexual?

I am a Christian, if you want to give it a label.

And yes, I find nothing wrong with slamming that which comes out of nothing more, than book of fables, written by imaginary beings.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 152):
I think even one murder is abhorrent

Ha. And what about where its says....an eye, and a tooth for a tooth ?
 
WearyDrover
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:56 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 165):
.an eye, and a tooth for a tooth ?

That bit is not about revenge but about justice being balanced and fair. That if someone wrongs you, you do not demand recompense greater than the original wrong. In modern parlance, punishment must fit the crime. Justice should be equitable; excessive harshness and excessive leniency should be avoided. nothing to do with having a passion for killing people.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:31 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 166):
That bit is not about revenge but about justice being balanced and fair.

Sure it is. I never said anything about revenge.

But if we were to take you one your word or interpretation, then legal systems right round the word, show time and time again that they are incapable of sentencing offenders to the ...punishment must fit the crime, as we see every day in the news. Lenient sentences, which come no where near "fitting the crime".

But couldn't one argue, that if you commit murder, then murder will be committed on you ?

Anyway, thats another topic.
 
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seb146
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:25 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 164):
Why rely on what Jesus may or may not have said?

To me, Christianity means following the teachings of Christ. Not Paul or Isaiah or John.

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 164):
Why not resort to reason rather than scripture because if you rely on the latter those who are opposed to same sex marriage have a far greater number of quotes to select from. Love and condemnation appear side by side.

I do not recall anywhere in the Bible saying anything about two men or two women forbidden by God from signing a government issued contract, also known as marriage certificate.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 160):
It only shows that making the choice to remove the penis off was a mistake for these people.

Go look through that list again. There were plenty of non trans people who were living life peacefully and minding their own business and got killed because someone thought they were gay.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 160):
Some of them also made poor career choices, hooking isn't exactly a safe profession.

Again, not all of them were prostitutes. How many?
 
WearyDrover
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:25 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 168):
To me, Christianity means following the teachings of Christ. Not Paul or Isaiah or John.

Christ himself left no writings that anyone is aware of. Everything we "know" about him comes from others.

I am not sure why a person would accept what Matthew or Mark tell us Jesus taught, while rejecting Paul when all three writers recount very much the same teachings and at least the latter claims to have met Christ, albeit in a vision. Oddly enough, I recall in another forum one poster approved of Luke while discounting Paul despite the fact that Luke was a disciple of Paul and had never met Jesus. Paul had also met James (the brother of Jesus) and Peter and debated the significance of Christ's teaching with them. They appeared ultimately to defer to his opinion.

So basically it comes down to which bits of scripture people wish to accept and which they choose to reject. But then, that's always been the case.

[Edited 2016-04-13 22:33:17]
 
tommy1808
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:02 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 145):
What happens to a college girl's DNA when she gets it on with a girl, yet goes back to exclusive heterosexuality after graduation?

Nothing, She is just as bisexuell as before.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 145):
I will give you a hint as to which one it is. It is not Christianity.

Thank God Christians didn´t manage to set up a theocratic regime in modern times. Yet. It is not for lack of trying.

Hey, some of those super-Christians are so nice, they even want to let gays repent before they get executed...

If Christians are not held in Check by a secular government, you get Ruanda and Uganda.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 145):
Also, you might considering this nitpicking but IMO there is a slight difference between wiping your ass with something and placing it neatly in the recycle bin.

The end result is the same. We like decent Toilette paper over here and my butt is too delicate for unprocessed religious texts and i don´t think it is possible to remove shit by whipping your ass with a load of Bullshit. If the cheapest decent quality four ply toilette paper said "100% recycled Quran" on the package, i´d still buy it. Unless i think some Islamophopic ass sells it to make a xenophobic point.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 145):
You just couldn't bring yourself to say the same thing about the Quroan totally get it.

Only in your imagination. The only reason why i would use Quran Pages as toilette Paper is when no real toilette paper was around. But i can guarantee that the Quran would be among the first books to go down the drain.

Want another one?

Of course they found WMDs in Iraq. There were plenty of Qurans. And, i am sure, some bibles as well.

best regards
Thomas
 
flipdewaf
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:00 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 99):
However, if the government gets out of the marriage business

why doesn't religion get out of it? Have a ceremony with all the fairies and whatever but leave the important bit to people who don't decide that someone can't take part because of some tools who want to rule by fear.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 117):
To me, religion is a secondary problem in the fight against discrimination, be it against gays or any other repressed minority. The main issue is education.

free thinking educated people seem to be able to reject religion better. It's probably more of a y-y correlation that religious people are less accepting of homosexuals. One doesn't cause the other they are both caused by the same thing ( lack of education)

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 169):
So basically it comes down to which bits of scripture people wish to accept and which they choose to reject. But then, that's always been the case.

well at least you agree that religion is just a reason to promote what you already think rather than a guide to what to do.

Fred
 
WearyDrover
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:26 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 171):
at least you agree that religion is just a reason to promote what you already think rather than a guide to what to do.

I think that religion is often used as a justification for what people think and do but it is not necessarily the prime motivation.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:48 pm

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 172):

I think that religion is often used as a justification for what people think and do but it is not necessarily the prime motivation.

Basically, it means you can make up almost any sort of BS and claim it's your religion.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 173):

Basically, it means you can make up almost any sort of BS and claim it's your religion

Well doh, all religions are made up bs. But if you're going to believe in one or the other you have to really believe in it otherwise what's the point? That's why I find people like Seb being Christians plain daft his religion doesn't like people like him, ditto for black people becoming Mormons, why join a religions which actively discriminated against your kind.
 
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zckls04
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:04 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 174):
Well doh, all religions are made up bs. But if you're going to believe in one or the other you have to really believe in it otherwise what's the point? That's why I find people like Seb being Christians plain daft his religion doesn't like people like him, ditto for black people becoming Mormons, why join a religions which actively discriminated against your kind.


But there are several sects of Christianity which are perfectly fine with gays. In the end all the different flavors of religion are picking and choosing their morals, so what's wrong with picking and choosing a version that doesn't hate you?

It's no more illogical than the actual act of being religious itself.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:26 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 175):
But there are several sects of Christianity which are perfectly fine with gays. In the end all the different flavors of religion are picking and choosing their morals, so what's wrong with picking and choosing a version that doesn't hate you?

Were those sects fine with it historically or have they compromised and become fine with it, which is my point you either follow what's in the bible or you don't. Which is precisely why religion is stupid in today's society.
 
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zckls04
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:35 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 176):
you either follow what's in the bible or you don't.

Why? Why not pick and choose? I don't see why picking and choosing is any worse than not picking and choosing. Is fundamentalism somehow less stupid because you're not picking and choosing?

Seems to me that picking and choosing is the sensible thing to do if you feel the need to be religious. These books were written in a very different time, and much of what they say doesn't apply to today's world.
 
flipdewaf
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 175):
It's no more illogical than the actual act of being religious itself

wont disagree there but people are illogical. The problem is when they allow their illogicalness (that's a word, I'll have no arguments) interfere with other people's lives.

Fred
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 169):
I am not sure why a person would accept what Matthew or Mark tell us Jesus taught, while rejecting Paul

Easy, because Matthew and Mark actually met and spent time around Jesus.... Paul did not.
 
tommy1808
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:05 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 179):

Easy, because Matthew and Mark actually met and spent time around Jesus

Mmm... That is a pretty fringe position to have.

Best regards
Thomas
 
MaverickM11
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 179):
Easy, because Matthew and Mark actually met and spent time around Jesus....

They were?
 
flipdewaf
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:12 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 177):
Why? Why not pick and choose?

well what's the point then? If you only pick what you want and live your life by those you are the same as the non religious people but hide behind a veil of "religion" most people act in accordance with society but some use the veil to justify being horrible to others.

Fred
 
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Tugger
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 176):
Were those sects fine with it historically or have they compromised and become fine with it, which is my point you either follow what's in the bible or you don't. Which is precisely why religion is stupid in today's society.
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 182):
well what's the point then? If you only pick what you want and live your life by those you are the same as the non religious people but hide behind a veil of "religion" most people act in accordance with society but some use the veil to justify being horrible to others.

Not that I believe this way but perhaps someone does believe in Jesus and his "teachings" as presented but find the things attributed to men to be not worth following (which when you you at all the conflicting information that is understandable).

Tugg
 
afcjets
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:08 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 59):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 53):God created a world of abundance but because of fear and greed we allow poverty, inequality, war and to some extent disease.

And yet, omniscience would've foretold the coming of all the above.So either 1) it's what God wanted (which is the previous poster's point) or 2) the creator isn't omniscient.Can only be one of the two above.

If I had to guess between the two I would guess the first one but where that is temporary, but keep in mind God refuses to be understood intellectually. In a vast universe full of life, where there are more stars in the universe than grains of sands on the earth's oceans, I am not sure why people insist the mystery of all of creation be reduced to what the human mind can comprehend. That goes way beyond narcissism IMO.
 
lewis
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:14 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 184):
I am not sure why people insist the mystery of all of creation be reduced to what the human mind can comprehend.

The human mind (at least your average human mind) cannot comprehend what science supports as the creation of everything around us. Hence why you have stupid comments about the big bang based on how the average joe comprehends and interprets the science behind it.

It is much easier for the average human mind to attribute it to a sky father figure or a fairytale, hence why all religious creation stories are based on such an idea since the beginning of recorded history.
 
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seb146
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:04 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 181):
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 179):
Easy, because Matthew and Mark actually met and spent time around Jesus....

They were?

"Come with me and I shall make you fishers of men" Matthew 4:19 and Mark 1:17

I do concede that the Gospels are second hand. I, as a Christian, would much rather follow those teachings rather than "Okay, Jesus is gone. Here is what I say His opinions are on minor things" in later books of the New Testament. And in what the Church organized as the first and continued printings of the Bible.
 
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zckls04
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:13 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 178):
wont disagree there but people are illogical. The problem is when they allow their illogicalness (that's a word, I'll have no arguments) interfere with other people's lives.

I think everybody shares that trait, religious or not.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 182):
well what's the point then?

As above, to move with the times. Sticking to something written 2000 years ago with no changes whatsoever is far more illogical, wouldn't you say?

Quoting afcjets (Reply 184):
I am not sure why people insist the mystery of all of creation be reduced to what the human mind can comprehend. That goes way beyond narcissism IMO.

Well, that's religion in a nutshell. A magical man in the sky is well within the limits of human imagination- it's a way to rationalize the parts of the world we don't understand.
 
N867DA
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:35 am

God didn't really plan for Catholicism either, but here we are, with a Pope and everything.
 
WearyDrover
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:44 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 173):
Basically, it means you can make up almost any sort of BS and claim it's your religion.

Yes, but whether it is recognised as such in the jurisdiction in which you reside is another matter.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 186):
"Come with me and I shall make you fishers of men" Matthew 4:19 and Mark 1:17

Perhaps you are thinking of Matthew 9:9 as the passages to which you refer relate to Jesus meeting Simon, named Peter, and his brother Andrew and later meeting the sons of Zebedee, James and John.
The passage in Matthew 9:9 that relates to Jesus meeting a man called Matthew, described in Mark 2:14 as a Levi. Biblical scholars continue to discuss whether the Matthew named as an Apostle is the same as the Matthew to whom the Gospel is ascribed.

As to Mark, there is no evidence that Mark ever met Jesus. Some have theorised that he was guided by Peter, though again there is little evidence for this. Mark is the oldest of the canonical Gospels and scholars in general believe that it was used as a source for both Matthew and Luke. Either way you dice it, whatever Jesus is reputed to have taught comes to us not directly but through intermediaries and are all, therefore, opinions.

As a Christian you choose some opinions in preference to others. That is of course your right. Just as it is the right of other Christians to give equal, greater or lesser emphasis to other parts of scripture.

[Edited 2016-04-14 18:20:13]
 
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seb146
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:39 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 189):
As a Christian you choose some opinions in preference to others.

I agree with you 100%. That is why I do not criticize how others choose to worship. However, when they start legislating their brand of worship on the entire state or country, that is where I draw the line. When those self proclaimed Christians start telling everyone that "the Bible says X so we must legislate accordingly," no. The Constitution is not the Bible and the Bible is not the Constitution. They are separate for a reason.
 
tommy1808
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:05 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 190):
They are separate for a reason.

They are opposing, incompatible concepts, unless you do some serious ignoring of the bible. The rule of law pretty much precludes a god from any say in anything, beyond the own personal behavior.

Problem is, for each x number of "believers" like you, which form the vast majority of all religious followers you get y saint, no harm in that and z terrorists/murders.

Good that pretty much no government head really believes in it. Otherwise DARPA would be looking for ways to target and kill god. After all, we have a written claim of responsibility/announcement of the biggest ever proposed genocide in revelation.

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 189):

Yes, but whether it is recognised as such in the jurisdiction in which you reside is another matter.

I don´t thnk there is any jurisdiction that doesn´t discriminate against the vast, vast, vast majority of all religions.

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 189):
Biblical scholars continue to discuss whether the Matthew named as an Apostle is the same as the Matthew to whom the Gospel is ascribed.

The same type of scholars that still think the Israelites really roamed the dessert for 40 years may do that.

best regards
Thomas
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:57 am

Just poking at the thread title... "God never planned for..."

He didn't plan for healthcare. The Bible is full of occasions where people were tempted to turn their backs on God, but yet they held fast, believed in him, and were saved. God wants you to trust him. Trusting cancer treatment means turning the back on God and your faith.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ld-mortality-refusing-medical-help

This is a piece on families in the US who consistently deny medical care to their children. From a religious point of view, their behaviour makes complete sense. Doing A while every person says B is a test of faith. Do you join them, or do you feel the spirit to do the right thing?

Yes, the Bible is full of these stories - trust God, and you will not be forsaken. It completely does not matter how many people disagree with you, fight you, want to disregard you, hate you - you are doing the right thing! Only you! You are the only follower of God you have to care about!

God never planned for ANYTHING. The biggest common denominator is that you just do what you think he wants from you. He's constantly testing your faith, and he is looking if you stray from his path.


It is within the realm of religious freedom to interpret freely what the word of God means. Unfettered religious freedom allows me to sacrifice my neighbours' first-borns to please my God. Adultery? You only commit adultery if you stop loving your partner. Going for sexual pleasure is fine. Praying nude in a public place? Of course, that way God can see me better. Polygamy and mutual responsibility for my 20 wifes? Yes, after all Christianity is the self-proclaimed religion of LOVE.


David

[Edited 2016-04-15 02:02:21]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:11 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 180):
Mmm... That is a pretty fringe position to have.

Since when? Plenty of people have that exact belief: you'll just more commonly see it described as "I care about Jesus' words, not Paul's"


Quoting afcjets (Reply 184):
I am not sure why people insist the mystery of all of creation be reduced to what the human mind can comprehend

I'm not sure why you can't seem to realize that people, for most of human history, have defaulted to the comforting answer of "It must be the will of god(s)!" for essentially everything that they had yet to find a rational explanation for.

Lightning strikes, volcanic eruptions, crop failures, disease epidemics, etc etc.
Why would you believe that the mysteries of outer space would be any different?
 
tommy1808
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:33 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 193):
Since when?

Since people look into the authorship of the bible i would presume.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 193):
Why would you believe that the mysteries of outer space would be any different?

At some point in the process of finding out how stuff really works, one may gain some confidence in solving the riddles left.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 192):
He didn't plan for healthcare.

An omniscient God has planned for everything. It is Star Trek Voyager year of hell rid large. So, before he lit the match to start the big bang, he know about healthcare, nuclear weapons, child above, the holocaust, sodomites ignoring the poor (mm.. not having universal health care.... mmmh) and knew we would figure out that the value of pi isn´t 3.

And he made the world that way regardless...

best regards
Thomas
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:11 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 194):
And he made the world that way regardless...

You're making people doubt their beliefs!!! Somebody needs to ban you from this forum!!!11!!einself!!!

God's paths are not discoverable for us measly human beings. Of course everything falls into place from His view. Trust him.   

The book Job is a very good place to start here... http://www.bricktestament.com/job/go...xplain_his_cruelty/jb38_01-03.html


David
 
tommy1808
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:12 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 195):
The book Job is a very good place to start here... http://www.bricktestament.com/job/go....html

one of my favorite books.

God meets with Satan, and his other sons (WTF?) in his house (House? Why? What? When? Where?) ..... of course the living bible and new internation version edit the word "son" out ... where they make a bet. In order to win his bet against god, Satan does his only killingw ever. And that dumb f*ck Job falls down and praises the lord, that just had all his children killed.....

Stockholm Syndrome should be called Uz Syndrome....

best regards
Thomas
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:02 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 192):
This is a piece on families in the US who consistently deny
medical care to their children.

Already posted in reply #140.  

As I said though. Anyone who neglect their child's health, regardless of reason, should be prosecuted and
put in jail for child neglect or, in severe cases, child abuse.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting Thunderboltdrgn (Reply 197):
Already posted in reply #140.

Thanks. I found that piece on FB.  


David
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: God Never Planned For Same Sex Marriages

Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:00 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 177):
Why? Why not pick and choose? I don't see why picking and choosing is any worse than not picking and choosing. Is fundamentalism somehow less stupid because you're not picking and choosing?

The bible is like a set of instructions for stupid people who want to believe in something, so you should follow the instructions, it's like building a plane if don't follow the instructions it doesn't work, or like baking a cake cock it up and it tastes bad, the fact that people are now picking out the parts they don't like and discarding them makes a mockery of of religion, at the point forget about it or make up something new.

The best idea is to kick religion to the gutter and forget about it, there really is no place for believeing in fairy stories in this age.

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