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DLFREEBIRD
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Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:49 am

Posting this here, because i'm tired of the media ignoring stories that i think are important like protests.

https://news.vice.com/article/hundreds-arrested-at-us-capitol-during-democracy-spring-campaign-finance-protests?utm_souerce=vicenewstwitter


Lady Liberty was arrested on Monday afternoon.

That is, a protester dressed up as the New York icon was taken into police custody, along with hundreds of other protesters who refused to leave the US Capitol steps on Monday until Congress agrees to pass campaign finance reform.

The protesters were in Washington, DC on Monday as part of Democracy Spring, a loosely organized protest movement that began as a 10-day walk from Philadelphia to the nation's capital, and which is now attracting hundreds of campaign finance advocates to sit-in at the Capitol building over the next week.

The group is demanding that Congress "take immediate action" to create a viable small-dollar public funding system for federal elections, and is calling for a Constitutional amendment to overturn the US Supreme Court's controversial 5-4 ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2009, which lifted restrictions on corporate money in politics.

A US Capitol Police officer estimated that more than 500 people were present at Monday's protest by the afternoon, but said that many more — he specify a number — had already been arrested for refusing to leave the Capitol steps.

Few of these protesters participated in the 10-day march from Philadelphia, but many flew and drove into Washington from all over the country to join them on Monday. Given their message, it's unsurprising that many of the attendees sported Bernie Sanders clothing and signs, but the group maintains that it is nonpartisan and not in favor of any candidate.

#DemocracySpring began trending on Twitter nationwide just after 1pm on Monday. Over the course of the afternoon, Capitol Police had cordoned off the largest section of the crowd in the middle of the Capitol campus, sectioning off a few hundred protesters who were standing on the Capitol steps and refused to leave. Police announced that the latter group was under arrest, but would have to wait until officers could get buses out to the Capitol to remove them.

It took several hours on Monday for Capitol Police to shuttle protesters away from the building to be processed. Though protesters joked about a potential party atmosphere in DC jails tonight, a Capitol Police officer said that the protesters would merely be processed, cited with a fine, and released. Unless the protesters had outstanding warrants, the officer said, none would be spending the night in jail.

Cenk Uygur, who hosts the progressive online commentary show The Young Turks, was among those taken into custody on Monday. Uygur said it was his first arrest, but he'd proudly do it again.

"Not only would I do it again, I probably will do it again," Uygur said. "The next time we come here, I don't think they're going to have enough buses in all of Washington to arrest all of us."

Uygur and other protesters stood in orderly lines, chanting in unison with those still awaiting arrest on the Capitol steps. They carried plastic zip ties around their wrists like badges of honor as officers loaded them onto the Capitol Police bus.

Six or more large buses full of protesters were taken into processing on Monday, as a thinning crowd of protesters outside of the police cordon sang and chanted slogans like, "I believe that we will win!" and "You are what Democracy looks like!"

Before all of the protesters on the Capitol steps were taken away Monday afternoon, Democracy Spring campaign director Kai Newkirk told the crowd, using the human microphone method popularized by Occupy Wall Street protesters, that they had broken the record for the most people ever arrested at the US Capitol. A spokesperson for the US Capitol Police did not immediately respond to a request to confirm that figure


But given the significance of the issue of big money in politics, several protesters said that they were disappointed with the turnout, which organizers had pegged at approximately 1,000 people.

"This is pathetic," complained a protester who had driven down from Pennsylvania, though she promised to be back tomorrow.

A man who was protesting with a megaphone shouted at tourists who were visiting the Capitol in the afternoon that this is their fight too.

By 5:30pm, most of the protesters on the Capitol steps had been arrested, while a few hundred remained vocal out on the main plaza as they brandished large signs. The protests are expected to resume at noon tomorrow through Saturday.

I've never been arrested, but i'm thinking maybe it's about time to do something for my country.
 
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seb146
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:48 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
Cenk Uygur,
Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
The Young Turks
Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
campaign finance reform.

That's why MSM will not report on it.

If a law suit can be filed in one of the Obama appointed courts and passed on to the Supreme Court, it will stand.
 
Okie
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:21 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
The group is demanding that Congress "take immediate action" to create a viable small-dollar public funding system for federal elections,

Already exists. Matched dollar for dollar $3 up to $250. Right on your tax return.
Whoops maybe they have never filed a tax return.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
and is calling for a Constitutional amendment to overturn the US Supreme Court's controversial 5-4 ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2009, which lifted restrictions on corporate money in politics.

Obviously does not understand how a Constitutional Amendment gets to be an Amendment. The process takes years usually to pass through all the states legislatures and approved by 3/4.



Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
If a law suit can be filed in one of the Obama appointed courts and passed on to the Supreme Court,

Err, I do not think that will pass muster with HRC. Her and Obama's main source of funding.

Okie

[Edited 2016-04-11 19:22:41]
 
bennett123
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:26 am

I suspect those in power do not want this to happen.
 
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seb146
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:55 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Already exists. Matched dollar for dollar $3 up to $250. Right on your tax return.
Whoops maybe they have never filed a tax return.

That is not what was being protested. What was being protested was Citizens United.

Two ways the right could spin this so people notice:

Give the protesters guns and show security arresting "Constitutionally protected citizens" or show the "liberal" being taken away and scream how there are "cracks" in the "liberal" and "democrat" party because the administration hates whatever. Just wait....
 
Pyrex
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:47 pm

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
overturn the US Supreme Court's controversial 5-4 ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2009, which lifted restrictions on corporate money in politics.

What a crock of BS... a company spending unlimited amount of money on politics has always been done - The New York Times Company, for instance, has been doing it since they began. What Citizens United did was end the distinctions between companies (which makes sense, given the U.S. constitution does not give the U.S. government the power to regulate the media, in as say who is and isn't a legitimate source).

Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Whoops maybe they have never filed a tax return.

Given they were Bernie Sanders supporters, that would be my guess as well.

Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Obviously does not understand how a Constitutional Amendment gets to be an Amendment. The process takes years usually to pass through all the states legislatures and approved by 3/4.

Not to mention that there is no way any politician wants to open the can of worms of a constitutional amendment / convention because they know there are far more pressing issues that would need to be addressed if you were to go down that route and they may not like the outcome.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
several protesters said that they were disappointed with the turnout, which organizers had pegged at approximately 1,000 people.

"This is pathetic," complained a protester who had driven down from Pennsylvania

Why yes, yes you are.
 
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seb146
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
What Citizens United did was end the distinctions between companies

So that corporations can give as much money to politicians as they want for whatever they want. What a great idea. The best government money can buy. A government of the money, for the money, and by the money. Why the hell do we even have elections any more?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
Given they were Bernie Sanders supporters

Are you sure about that? Look at the hundreds who turn out for Glenn Beck rallies. I guess they were/are all Trump supporters, right?
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:26 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
What a crock of BS... a company spending unlimited amount of money on politics has always been done - The New York Times Company, for instance, has been doing it since they began. What Citizens United did was end the distinctions between companies (which makes sense, given the U.S. constitution does not give the U.S. government the power to regulate the media, in as say who is and isn't a legitimate source).

Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Whoops maybe they have never filed a tax return.

Given they were Bernie Sanders supporters, that would be my guess as well.

Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Obviously does not understand how a Constitutional Amendment gets to be an Amendment. The process takes years usually to pass through all the states legislatures and approved by 3/4.

Not to mention that there is no way any politician wants to open the can of worms of a constitutional amendment / convention because they know there are far more pressing issues that would need to be addressed if you were to go down that route and they may not like the outcome.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
several protesters said that they were disappointed with the turnout, which organizers had pegged at approximately 1,000 people.

"This is pathetic," complained a protester who had driven down from Pennsylvania

Why yes, yes you are.

The problem the protesters have is the notion that a few billionaires get to decide who the rest of us vote for via what's called the "Wealth Primary." Those candidates essentially court the big money interests and in doing so allow those big money interests to dictate their platform and if any given candidate steps out of line the big money interests pull the plug. That is not democracy, that's an oligarchy. By limiting campaign funding to say 1000 dollars a person per candidate, and declaring that corporations arent people and money isnt speech it opens up the field so that truly anyone can run if they develop a big enough grass roots network. That's true democracy,
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:25 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 7):

The problem the protesters have is the notion that a few billionaires get to decide who the rest of us vote for via what's called the "Wealth Primary." Those candidates essentially court the big money interests and in doing so allow those big money interests to dictate their platform and if any given candidate steps out of line the big money interests pull the plug. That is not democracy, that's an oligarchy. By limiting campaign funding to say 1000 dollars a person per candidate, and declaring that corporations arent people and money isnt speech it opens up the field so that truly anyone can run if they develop a big enough grass roots network. That's true democracy,

Forget it . For the likes of PYREX and BMI727, corruption is the legitimate selfdefence of the haves against the unwashed masses of have nots.

Jan
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:59 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):
That is not what was being protested. What was being protested was Citizens United.

Well at least they are doing it the right way - you need a Constitutional amendment. But I would want to make sure that all the loopholes are included.

I would want to ensure that:

1) PACs are eliminated.
2) No organization, apart from those directly related to the parties or individual campaigns, may conduct rallies, voting drives, produce ads or otherwise campaign for a candidate or party. That's to stop unions, churches, etc from being a huge and unaccountable asset to one side or another.
3) Businesses or individuals may endorse a candidate, but only "in first person". In other words, if Google wants to help Bernie Sanders, they can run an ad but it will clearly say "Paid for by Google, Inc." These anonymous organizations like "Americans for Happy Times" or whatever need to be eliminated.
4) I would love to see a hard limit on the timeline for campaigning - such as campaigning and political advertisements only allowed within 3 months of the relevant election. Not entirely sure about this - but one thing is for sure - I can't stand these 1-2 year long campaigns.

I'm sure more ideas could be arrived at.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:15 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Well at least they are doing it the right way - you need a Constitutional amendment. But I would want to make sure that all the loopholes are included.

I hate the thought of any constitutional amendment that restricts free speech.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
had already been arrested for refusing to leave the Capitol steps.

I have grave concern when non-violent protestors are arrested for exercising their right to free speech. I can only assume the Capitol Police will say they were obstructing normal operations, but it is still concerning.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:34 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I hate the thought of any constitutional amendment that restricts free speech.

I know, I don't like it either. But that is also why you want to do it properly, by a carefully worded amendment, instead of having a court pull a ruling out of its ass.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:42 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I'm sure more ideas could be arrived at.

Not sure why you didn't go all the way and eliminate political parties altogether. Every candidate should be forced to run as an independent (as already happens in many states and municipalities) and candidates would not be allowed to exchange campaign funds among themselves, to prevent horse-trading when bills come around. Political parties are just breeding grounds for corruption, there is no reason to have them still exist in the 21st century.

Of course you would then have to add a constitutional amendment to prevent any bill from having an outsize effect on any single person (i.e., prevent discrimination), but that would never happen.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I have grave concern when non-violent protestors are arrested for exercising their right to free speech. I can only assume the Capitol Police will say they were obstructing normal operations, but it is still concerning.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

Remember there are just as many guns as people in the United States

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
I hate the thought of any constitutional amendment that restricts free speech.

To compromise on this, allow unlimited money in politics but ensure that their is a paper trail so we know what monied interest is funding which candidates which media outlets etc., and how much they are giving and its all on the table. The lack of transparency is more troubling than the money because an informed electorate can beat money.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
1) PACs are eliminated.
2) No organization, apart from those directly related to the parties or individual campaigns, may conduct rallies, voting drives, produce ads or otherwise campaign for a candidate or party. That's to stop unions, churches, etc from being a huge and unaccountable asset to one side or another.
3) Businesses or individuals may endorse a candidate, but only "in first person". In other words, if Google wants to help Bernie Sanders, they can run an ad but it will clearly say "Paid for by Google, Inc." These anonymous organizations like "Americans for Happy Times" or whatever need to be eliminated.
4) I would love to see a hard limit on the timeline for campaigning - such as campaigning and political advertisements only allowed within 3 months of the relevant election. Not entirely sure about this - but one thing is for sure - I can't stand these 1-2 year long campaigns.

  
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:13 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 13):
To compromise on this, allow unlimited money in politics but ensure that their is a paper trail so we know what monied interest is funding which candidates which media outlets etc., and how much they are giving and its all on the table. The lack of transparency is more troubling than the money because an informed electorate can beat money.

Sponsor stickers on the candidates and elected officials?

Seriously, my concern with that is that anonymity is as much a free speech issue as supporting your candidate. I guess you can set an upper limit for the anonymity.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:50 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Seriously, my concern with that is that anonymity is as much a free speech issue as supporting your candidate. I guess you can set an upper limit for the anonymity.

You have a point but with the lack of transparency on political donations to PACs specifically is troubling because that is where the unlimited contributions can go to. A candidate can be willfully or unwillingly take contributions from companies or individuals that earned that money from illegal activities. Us as voters should know where our candidates are receiving there cash from so we can make an informed decision.

IIRC the personal donation limit is $2700 per person.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:31 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
political donations to PACs

Eliminate PACs...all donations go directly to the candidate or the party. Maintain the anonymity of low level donors, if they choose to remain anonymous, and, keep as a matter of public record the donors' name and amount donated, if the donation exceeds the ceiling set for anonymity.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
IIRC the personal donation limit is $2700 per person.

Personal donation caps are stupid and enable the current situation where a donor can donate the "max", but then turn around and dump as much as he or she wants into a PAC.
 
diverted
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:46 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 14):
Sponsor stickers on the candidates and elected officials?

Seriously, my concern with that is that anonymity is as much a free speech issue as supporting your candidate. I guess you can set an upper limit for the anonymity

Yeah! Make them look like Nascar drivers! Oh that would be epic. HRC-"Well today's Goldman Sachs Lehmann Bro's Primary Team had a great debate, even after the attempted bash on Bernie blew up in my face"

For reference, I'm referring to her quote about stock swaps the other day...

Quote:
“I’m the only one on this stage who did not vote to deregulate swaps and derivatives, as Senator Sanders did,” she said. “That contributed to the collapse of Lehman Brothers, and started the cascade.”

A) Well Hill, your husband was the one who signed it into law.
B) I didn't know that the first lady was a member of the senate? DUH, of course you couldn't have voted on it.

back on topic-I would love to see sponsor stickers,
 
BMI727
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:54 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Thread starter):
calling for a Constitutional amendment to overturn the US Supreme Court's controversial 5-4 ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2009, which lifted restrictions on corporate money in politics.

Can we stop pretending that opposition to the Citizens United decision is anything other than an attempt to silence people whom you disagree with?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
Forget it . For the likes of PYREX and BMI727, corruption is the legitimate selfdefence of the haves against the unwashed masses of have nots.

Absolutely. Democracy is dangerous because it gives idiots way too much power.

More importantly, lobbying the government is a legitimate use of funds for business. I expect that companies I invest in try to shape government policy to enhance their ability to generate a return on my investment. And I recognize that this may not necessarily align to how I personally view things, but if that gulf is too wise I can always take my money elsewhere.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
1) PACs are eliminated.
2) No organization, apart from those directly related to the parties or individual campaigns, may conduct rallies, voting drives, produce ads or otherwise campaign for a candidate or party. That's to stop unions, churches, etc from being a huge and unaccountable asset to one side or another.
3) Businesses or individuals may endorse a candidate, but only "in first person". In other words, if Google wants to help Bernie Sanders, they can run an ad but it will clearly say "Paid for by Google, Inc." These anonymous organizations like "Americans for Happy Times" or whatever need to be eliminated.
4) I would love to see a hard limit on the timeline for campaigning - such as campaigning and political advertisements only allowed within 3 months of the relevant election. Not entirely sure about this - but one thing is for sure - I can't stand these 1-2 year long campaigns.

This would be a blatant violation of free speech.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 13):
To compromise on this, allow unlimited money in politics but ensure that their is a paper trail so we know what monied interest is funding which candidates which media outlets etc., and how much they are giving and its all on the table. The lack of transparency is more troubling than the money because an informed electorate can beat money.

Again, this is a blatant violation of free speech.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Topic Author
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:09 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Can we stop pretending that opposition to the Citizens United decision is anything other than an attempt to silence people whom you disagree with?

is that what you really think citizens united is about? 78% of Americans think that Citizen United ruling should be overturned, compared with 17 percent who call it a good decision.

most people think undue influence of wealth in politics is a problem.
 
BMI727
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:29 am

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 19):
is that what you really think citizens united is about?

That's exactly what it's about. You don't like what they want to say so you try to make it illegal.

Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 19):
78% of Americans think that Citizen United ruling should be overturned, compared with 17 percent who call it a good decision.

Proof that belief in tyranny of the majority is dangerous, but although I don't believe that 78% are really against freedom of speech, the government must defend citizens against such people. They're against freedom of speech for some people if they disagree with the content.

I suspect there are other groups that would have far less than 17% approve of what they say, but that does not even remotely make it okay to restrict their rights to say it.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:14 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Quoting DLFREEBIRD (Reply 19):
is that what you really think citizens united is about?

That's exactly what it's about. You don't like what they want to say so you try to make it illegal.

No one is making an opinion illegal and we are free to disagree and always have.

What shouldn't be allowed is those with more money to make their voices louder by buying politicans and most likely threatening them behind the scenes. When you have nearly have the Super PAC contributions coming from 50 people then it isn't good for democracy. I know you think this is a good thing but when you arrest peaceful protesters then you are basically ensuring that the torches and pitchforks will come out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-new-gilded-age-close-to-half-of-all-super-pac-money-comes-from-50-donors/2016/04/15/63dc363c-01b4-11e6-9d36-33d198ea26c5_story.html

These people know that most Americans do not share their values and that is the reason they put their cash in to influence the politicians whom are supposed to answer to the voters. Not surprisingly the US ranks dead last in democracy when compared to other Western Nations.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/amer...ong-western-democracies-heres-why/
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
a company spending unlimited amount of money on politics has always been done

That's the first thing I thought when this came out and it is still true today. A huge fuss about something with little actual ramification.
We can find those "corporations" buying both sides of the isle, unions included, particularly teacher unions in California, for example, love our one-party rule..

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
Us as voters should know where our candidates are receiving there cash from so we can make an informed decision.

I didn't know you vote in US elections. How did that happen?
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 21):
No one is making an opinion illegal and we are free to disagree and always have.

...but only one side would get to express those opinions according to the left.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
Us as voters should know where our candidates are receiving there cash from so we can make an informed decision.

StarAC17, I am interested in your statement that you are speaking as a US voter. Is this true? You've never mentioned that before but if so, I need to apologize for attacking you for all your mind-numbing and often ignorant criticism of the US as a Canadian.

If not, it is truly a watershed moment. A Canadian who has spent so much time arguing US politics that he has convinced himself he is actually a US citizen with skin in the game, so to speak.

Which is it?
 
StarAC17
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Lady Liberty Arrested 4 Free Speech Not Fee Speech

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:53 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 24):
StarAC17, I am interested in your statement that you are speaking as a US voter. Is this true? You've never mentioned that before but if so, I need to apologize for attacking you for all your mind-numbing and often ignorant criticism of the US as a Canadian.

If not, it is truly a watershed moment. A Canadian who has spent so much time arguing US politics that he has convinced himself he is actually a US citizen with skin in the game, so to speak.

Which is it?

I am a Canadian and do not vote in US elections. However as a member of the forum I have the right to comment on any of the hundreds of topics on this forums and as long as I am not violating the rules of the forum.

This website has members from all over the world and with the US being the most powerful nation on earth their elections draw the interest of the world and we are free to comment on it.

If you have a problem with that take it up with the site administrators and the mods and ask them to delete posts that are make by non American commenting on American elections. Or stay of the site all together because obviously you appear to lack the maturity to realize that people can have opinions about whatever they want.

As for pretending to be an American citizen. No thanks!! I will take my colder but much more compassionate and progressive nation any day of the week. Still doesn't mean I don't have the right to comment on US politics.

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