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OA260
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EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:34 pm

Interesting results in a latest poll.


EU citizens fear Brexit more than people in the UK - survey

European citizens are more concerned about a so-called Brexit than the British people themselves, a survey published today shows.

This comes two months before Britain votes on whether to leave the European Union.

The survey of five European countries by TNS found 78% of Germans, more than two-thirds of Spaniards and almost six out of 10 French wanted Britain to stay in the EU.

That far outstripped the 38% of Britons who backed staying in the union, only slightly more than the 34% who want to leave, according to TNS. Some 28% were still undecided.

The question will be put to a referendum on 23 June, when the British public will vote on whether to stay part of the 28 member European Union or strike out alone.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0420/783007-eu-survey-on-brexit/
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:43 pm

As we all know, the UK was an absolute paradise in the years before 1973, a global superpower and constantly on the rise. Once that proud nation is freed of the shackles of EU membership, its return to former greatness and glory will astound us all.

In other words, I just want this farce to end. One way or another.   
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:52 pm

I can understand why the Germans are worried this article hits on the reasons :


For Germany, Europe’s largest economy, the consequences of Brexit could be grave. Public opinion in the country is divided on the issue. Some fear that the EU would become less liberal if the UK left. Others, resentful of the UK’s presumption that it should be allowed à la carte EU membership, are eager to see the British go. When it comes to the economic impact of Brexit, however, Germany has much to lose and almost nothing to gain.

Third, German exporters are likely to suffer. In 2015, the surplus from trade with the UK topped €50 billion ($57 billion), with German exports totaling roughly €89 billion, or 3% of German GDP. Only France and the United States bought more German goods. Any disruption to bilateral trade would be felt across the country.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/com...r-germany-by-clemens-fuest-2016-04
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:01 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):

Yes. I'm ashamed enough of my country. A series of treaties make Switzerland basically a non-voting EU member, but we secured some special rights, like imposing a fee on trucks that cross our country on the way to Italy.

The same with Britain. They will only stay in the EU as long we continue to pander them.


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ozglobal
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:11 am

What I find most disappointing about the debate in the UK is that BOTH sides: Leave and Stay, ONLY argue in terms of opportunistic and selective self interest. That is, that no one in the UK seems to have the concept of any solidarity as part of a greater European society. This is what makes the UK at best an ambiguous citizen of the EU; ... not a team player.

I too look forward to a resolution and the end of the noise.
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:37 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Brexit

What is it with the penchant to shorten, abbreviate, combine, or all of the above certain words to make some catchy, annoying word or phrase? I can only assume Brexit means British (Britain) Exit.


It has always been my position that unless the EU members, states and citizens, stopped thinking of themselves first as French, German, Spanish, Greek, et al., and began thinking of themselves as Europeans, that the EU would fail as a coherent political entity.
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Pyrex
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:12 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
As we all know, the UK was an absolute paradise in the years before 1973, a global superpower and constantly on the rise. Once that proud nation is freed of the shackles of EU membership, its return to former greatness and glory will astound us all.

A funny thing happened since 1973... a Mrs. Thatcher came along and righted the country (no thanks to the EU, who did everything they could to stop her), preventing it from becoming a crypto-communist wasteland.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
Some fear that the EU would become less liberal if the UK left.

That is indeed my fear - the UK is the only thing maintaining a certain degree of sanity in the UK. Without it, the EU is just a group of countries that came together to form a free trade alliance only to later realize they did not believe in free trade at all, so decided to just create a political union instead.

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 4):
Leave and Stay, ONLY argue in terms of opportunistic and selective self interest. That is, that no one in the UK seems to have the concept of any solidarity as part of a greater European society.

Yes, because when the French insist on massive EU subsidies and restrictive trade practices in the EU for agricultural products that is exactly what they have in mind, the "greater European society", not wanting to commute in peace to their jobs as fonctionnaires without having some French farmers jam up the péripherique with their tractors...
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:18 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 4):
BOTH sides: Leave and Stay, ONLY argue in terms of opportunistic and selective self interest. That is, that no one in the UK seems to have the concept of any solidarity as part of a greater European society.

Why on earth should they? The UK is not some EU charity that needs to take one for the team. You clearly have some issues with self-determination and sovereignty, fundamental human rights that are continually abused by the EU; ironically by the Human Rights Court!

You can't cajole the UK into joining by showing how great it'll be for them then cry when they want to leave about how selfish they're being.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:34 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
EU citizens fear Brexit more than people in the UK - survey

"Fear" is maybe not the right word. "Assuming a Brexit as likely" is probably more accurate.

A Brexit won't change much on the continent. It is not like UK import/export from/to continental EU will collapse overnight.

What will happen pretty fast is that the financial services mainly centered around London will move to the continent. Many Englishmen will move along, and those who don't will get unemployed.

Next comes British web shops and stores who sell to all Europe. They will of course also move to the continent to avoid customs and VAT complications. But it will take more time since there are physical infrastructures to be changed.

There will be many such setbacks in the UK, but none of them catastrophic. On the continent, however, we will hardly notice.

[Edited 2016-04-20 19:20:05]
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Pyrex
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:25 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
What will happen pretty fast is that the financial services mainly centered around London will move to the continent. Many Englishmen will move along, and those who don't will get unemployed.

Britain was the financial capital of Europe before the EU and will continue to be if they decide to leave... the reasons banks have their major operations in London and not Paris or Frankfurt include a much better legal system where you can actually enforce your rights, an environment that actually fosters the sector instead of vilifying it, increased personal safety for its participants (let us not forget the amount of financiers that were literally forced out of continental Europe due to their ethnicity...), increased attractiveness for a diverse, talented workforce (how well would a Portuguese or Italian trader really be able to perform in France or Germany?), etc. Do you really think those French finance professionals that escaped to London over the past few years to flee Hollande's mad dash for cash will be lining up to return to Paris for the privilege of paying 75% taxes?

BTW, New York is the finance hub for the Americas and Hong Kong and Singapore the finance hubs for Asia-Pacific for many of the same reasons London is the finance hub for EMEA, and those cities don't even have the benefit of being in the same economic area.
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blueflyer
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:26 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
What will happen pretty fast is that the financial services mainly centered around London will move to the continent.
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Britain was the financial capital of Europe before the EU and will continue to be if they decide to leave.

Whether or not London remains the financial capital of Europe if the UK leaves the EU depends on how much the British government is willing to give up in exchange.

As it stands EU law does not allow non-EU entities to manage mutual funds located within EU countries. These mutual funds account for 75% of collective investments within the EU and as much as 40% of the funds managed by the largest British fund managers.

I'm sure the UK will be very keen to retain the ability to manage these funds, and France and Germany equally keen to extract a very high price in exchange. If they can't come to an agreement, mutual funds managers will move. The banks are not going to walk away from such a large market because they can't run their operations from London.

Morgan Stanley and BofA already have plans drawn up just in case. Destination: Ireland.

It doesn't mean all of their activities will move, especially in the short term. As leases do come up for renewal, the banks will ask themselves one at a time whether it makes sense to keep mutual funds management in the EU and their other European operations in London vs consolidating in a single location. I suspect some banks will stay put, others will move.

If the UK retains the right to manage EU funds, life will go on as usual in London. If it does not, the City will get smaller. Anyone who tells you they know how small is lying...

[Edited 2016-04-21 00:30:19]
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:08 am

I don't fear Brexit, I wish for it.

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 4):
That is, that no one in the UK seems to have the concept of any solidarity as part of a greater European society.

There's no greater European society, there are just clowns in Belgium, France and Germany pushing their failed policies over other member countries under the pseudo democratic system called the "EU".
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:47 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
A Brexit won't change much on the continent. It is not like UK import/export from/to continental EU will collapse overnight.

Well the leave campaigners and some on here previously have stated that the UK would be locked out which when you look at the figures above of German exports to the UK it would simply not happen. A lot of mis truths are being played on by both sides and it would be nice to have a proper factual campaign on both sides.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
London will move to the continent.

Actually as a few people have said Ireland would be a most likely candidate. Ireland have done well in attracting major multi nationals over the last few years. Stable government ( usually ) and English speaking.
 
offloaded
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:00 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Well the leave campaigners and some on here previously have stated that the UK would be locked out which when you look at the figures above of German exports to the UK it would simply not happen. A lot of mis truths are being played on by both sides and it would be nice to have a proper factual campaign on both sides.

Exactly right, but it's probably impossible because no-one really knows. Personally I think it would be business as usual, as that is also in both sides best interest. The EU may flourish without the UK, or would the whole thing come crashing down like a house of cards? In case of the latter, the EU citizens fearing it the most are the Commissioners and high ranking bureaucrats whose bloated salaries and pension pots would be in grave danger.

One of the biggest fears of Brits I talk too (that live in the UK) is where the EU is heading. You've potentially got Ukraine, Turkey, the rest of the Balkans not in it now, another 150+ million people. I'm quite sure that for every Brit or German thinking they fancy living in the Ukraine, they'd be a thousand heading the other way. Could local schools/hospitals cope? In 1973 there were 6 countries in it when Britain joined. Today there are 28. And, by it's very nature, it will have to get LESS democratic in order to move forward. You already have QMV and that is a major concern.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
richcandy
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:12 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Well the leave campaigners and some on here previously have stated that the UK would be locked out which when you look at the figures above of German exports to the UK it would simply not happen. A lot of mis truths are being played on by both sides and it would be nice to have a proper factual campaign on both sides.

Half the problem seams to be that no one can tell the what the UK would be like if it left the EU.

Is travelling from London to Paris going to be similar to traveling between London and New York. Will UK and French citizens need to apply visa waive type authority before they travel?

Will citizens of other EU countries who live in the UK and or UK citizens who live in other parts of the EU start to have immigration problems?

What will the tax rate be between UK/EU?

Will duty free make a come back?

Yes I am sure there are many more important issues, but not having all the facts isn't really a good thing.

If you ask most older Brits if they consider Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Australian's foreigners then I think the answer you will get would be no or no, not really. But ask the same people if they think French, Germans, Italians etc are foreigners and you will get a yes. In someways its to do with historical links.

If you live in London and you call a plumber or an electrician then the chances are that they will be eastern European. Get a mini-cab and the driver will most likely be eastern European or maybe Indian. London is used to having large numbers of foreigners, but smaller cities are not. Then you get the "why are these people coming over here taking our jobs, houses, benefits etc?" sort of attitude.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:45 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 3):
Yes. I'm ashamed enough of my country. A series of treaties make Switzerland basically a non-voting EU member, but we secured some special rights, like imposing a fee on trucks that cross our country on the way to Italy.

It's the same deal with Norway, defacto membership without any say in the relationship, I don't see any benefit to the UK in this kind of deal, there's no benefit ion it for the people.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Britain was the financial capital of Europe before the EU and will continue to be if they decide to leave

Lets see what happens is the London Stock Exchange is bought by the Germans, thhis should not be allowed to happen, it will be made worse with an exit.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
If you ask most older Brits if they consider Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Australian's foreigners then I think the answer you will get would be no or no, not really.

Remove the American and I think you are correct. Americans are very much foreigners in the UK and not treated the same as people from the mentioned Commonwealth countries.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Will duty free make a come back?

Duty free never left.
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:26 am

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Is travelling from London to Paris going to be similar to traveling between London and New York. Will UK and French citizens need to apply visa waive type authority before they travel?

I doubt it. Being outside of Schengen means everyone is checked now anyway. I was on the Eurostar recently and went through passport control and didnt take that long. They seem to have the system streamlined. The agreements between Britain and France are bilateral not EU agreements.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Will duty free make a come back?
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
Duty free never left.

Duty free was axed in UK/Ireland and most of the EU apart from the Canary Islands ( maybe a few others ) . In fact I used to fly the EI BFS-SNN route and be able to get duty free.

It will be a close vote thats for sure. I think despite the hype that both sides are pushing the concessions that David Cameron got may not have been historic but they may be enough to keep 55-60% of the population in favor.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:48 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 7):
fundamental human rights that are continually abused by the EU; ironically by the Human Rights Court!

Except the infamous court in Strasbourg has NOTHING to do with EU membership. Only semiliterate readers of The Sun think it does.
The UK would have to quit its membership in the Council of Europe... and join some other, more suitable, entity. Organisation of Islamic Cooperation for example.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:13 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Duty free was axed in UK/Ireland and most of the EU apart from the Canary Islands ( maybe a few others ) . In fact I used to fly the EI BFS-SNN route and be able to get duty free.

I'm pretty sure when I fly from the UK to Norway I get duty free, Norway is outside the EU, and having an NZ passport also helps.
 
offloaded
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:38 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):

Duty Free is available between the UK and Norway as it is not an intra-EU journey. For the purposes of the EU Customs Union some territories are exempted like the Canaries, Mellila, Ceuta, Gibraltar, Channel Islands etc. A pal of mine used to work MAN Customs and he said taking 20,000 cigarettes off people coming in from TFN was a daily occurrence "...but Spain's in the EU and the Canaries are part of Spain" was usually their first line of defence.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:03 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 19):
A pal of mine used to work MAN Customs and he said taking 20,000 cigarettes off people coming in from TFN was a daily occurrence "...but Spain's in the EU and the Canaries are part of Spain" was usually their first line of defence.

LOL.. although they know full well Id say 90% of them are chancing their arm. Im over and back to the Canaries on a regular basis and the things I see both at duty free and onboard sales amazes me. I was actually on a TCX flight to MAN and it must have been 20% clothes in the bags and 80% cigarettes and drink  
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:19 pm

I think it also might be a worry that a Brexit would cause a sort of a domino effect where other countries
would follow suite and considered leaving the European Union. Both Sweden and Danmark, like UK still
have their own currencies. Although I see it as unlikely that any of those countries would even consider
leaving. The politicians would never allow it,
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Ken777
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
German exporters are likely to suffer. In 2015, the surplus from trade with the UK topped €50 billion ($57 billion), with German exports totaling roughly €89 billion, or 3% of German GDP

And that surplus is the core reason why issues related to commerce can rapidly be worked out. Faster than the actual split can be worked out.

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 4):
no one in the UK seems to have the concept of any solidarity as part of a greater European society. This is what makes the UK at best an ambiguous citizen of the EU; ... not a team player.

I was only in the UK last week for 36 hours but was struct with the comments on TV. First was the ability of the EU to crush an act of Parliament - a motivation to vote for an Exit. Then there was the issue of any EU person to come to the UK, take jobs away and get benefits. Those were the two main reasons why I can see voters wanting to leave.

I guess you could say that the long term goal of the EU is to make all countries in it look the same in terms of population and laws (but not language) and that is going to be unacceptable to traditional Britons.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
What will happen pretty fast is that the financial services mainly centered around London will move to the continent.

I doubt that - one of the top issues to be negotiated in order for Germany to maintain its surplus.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
Next comes British web shops and stores who sell to all Europe. They will of course also move to the continent to avoid customs and VAT complications

Again an easy issue to negotiate as it is beneficial to all involved

Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Stable government ( usually ) and English speaking.

And very low taxes.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Is travelling from London to Paris going to be similar to traveling between London and New York. Will UK and French citizens need to apply visa waive type authority before they travel?

Routes like Paris - London appear to me to be simple shuttles, like Boston - New York. That can be worked out to continue to be a simple process - especially in the days of computers doing most of the work.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Will citizens of other EU countries who live in the UK and or UK citizens who live in other parts of the EU start to have immigration problems?

That is going to be an interesting issue as those who have moved to the UK to get the local benefits had better be working and paying taxes if they want to stay. Otherwise they will probably need to go back home.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
If you ask most older Brits if they consider Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Australian's foreigners then I think the answer you will get would be no or no, not really.

Another interesting point I read about while in London was that some in the Leave side were talking about returning attention to traditional friends and those were the exact countries noted in the comments.

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):
Then you get the "why are these people coming over here taking our jobs, houses, benefits etc?" sort of attitude.

Exactly. Everyone who lost a job to a migrant is going to be voting to leave - as will family and friends. Paying addition taxes to support these migrants with benefits is another motivation to vote to Leave.
 
offloaded
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
I was only in the UK last week for 36 hours but was struct with the comments on TV. First was the ability of the EU to crush an act of Parliament - a motivation to vote for an Exit.

Peter Bone MP, writing in today's Times, referring to Obama's recent comments on the issue said:
"We always welcome the view of the US President. But wouldn’t it carry more weight in this particular instance if the United States had an open border with Mexico, a Supreme Court in Toronto and a budget set by an unelected pan-American committee?

Wouldn’t then you be better placed to tell Brits they would be better off being run by a foreign power?"
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:54 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
First was the ability of the EU to crush an act of Parliament - a motivation to vote for an Exit.

It doesn't work like that. The countries that joined the EU have given it (the parliament and the commission, where there are plenty of British people) their sovereignty on some issues, and national parliaments vote laws on these issues that are a retranscription of EU law. They can tweak them a little but that's it.

For example the free market is an EU power, making it illegal for a country to prop up its companies to the detriment of other ones. This is the kind of things that the UK loves and imposed on countries like France.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
That is going to be an interesting issue as those who have moved to the UK to get the local benefits had better be working and paying taxes if they want to stay. Otherwise they will probably need to go back home.

This is no different than someone from Tennessee taking a job in New York.

As for the benefits, you don't get them if you don't work. In fact you can't stay in a foreign EU country if you don't have a job.

Those arguments are just lies, or the UK not enforcing current laws then blaming the EU. Same about the inability to deport religious crazies, France deports them without any trouble, meanwhile the UK used to take them as asylum seekers !

I find the concession about benefits unjust and it would certainly be illegal if attempted in France, if you pay into the system you should get the same benefits as everyone else. Now if they want to keep foreigners out of the system for some years, fine, but then they shouldn't have to pay into it either.

Meanwhile many Britons come to France to get free cancer treatment because the UK has decided they were not worth the cost and denied it to them.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Ken777
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:05 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 23):
Wouldn’t then you be better placed to tell Brits they would be better off being run by a foreign power?"

While I would like to see the UK vote to Leave it is not my position to tell them to vote that way. I can, however, be happy if they do vote to leave. Good Luck!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
This is no different than someone from Tennessee taking a job in New York.

Since the US is a single country and the EU is a collection/union of countries it is not the same, And the differences get even more noticeable when you look at the wide collection of languages in the various EU member countries.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
As for the benefits, you don't get them if you don't work.

I was reading an article in the Daily News on the weekend and there was a great article of a migrant who raped the system, collecting millions with phantom children, names, etc. She and her gang got a prison sentence and was ordered to be deported when she completed that sentence. She is now out of prison, living in a government supported house and collecting benefits. No mention of her working and no mention of her getting a job.
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:14 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
As for the benefits, you don't get them if you don't work. In fact you can't stay in a foreign EU country if you don't have a job.

Sorry but that is a lie . Im all for a level playing field of truthful realities but your statement simply is not the case!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
I find the concession about benefits unjust and it would certainly be illegal if attempted in France, if you pay into the system you should get the same benefits as everyone else. Now if they want to keep foreigners out of the system for some years, fine, but then they shouldn't have to pay into it either.

You should have to pay tax in a EU country for 2 years before you can claim any benefits in my opinion. I would not expect to land in Paris tomorrow and not be able to find a job and then get free healthcare and pay outs. There should be a system where EU nationals pay for a private healthcare policy to cover them for working abroad. After they have paid 2 years of taxes then they can ditch the policy.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
Meanwhile many Britons come to France to get free cancer treatment because the UK has decided they were not worth the cost and denied it to them.

And I know someone personally who lives in France and came to the UK because they wouldnt treat him in France so there will always be these loopholes and examples.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
France deports them without any trouble

Yet that didnt help Paris or Brussels in the recent attacks so maybe a bad example.
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:33 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
I was reading an article in the Daily News on the weekend and there was a great article of a migrant who raped the system, collecting millions with phantom children, names, etc. She and her gang got a prison sentence and was ordered to be deported when she completed that sentence. She is now out of prison, living in a government supported house and collecting benefits. No mention of her working and no mention of her getting a job.

That's because Britain is fine with it, not because of EU law.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 26):
Sorry but that is a lie . I'm all for a level playing field of truthful realities but your statement simply is not the case!

Prove it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
aloges
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:39 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 23):
a budget set by an unelected pan-American committee

Just out of idle curiosity, which unelected pan-European committee sets the UK's budget?
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:41 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Prove it.

Right back to you. Prove your claim as you made it . Back it up with reliable sources.
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:51 pm

Here a blog post that goes into detail : http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.fr/201...loyed-eu-citizens-be-expelled.html

Clearly "never worked" is grounds for expulsion.
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victrola
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:52 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
What will happen pretty fast is that the financial services mainly centered around London will move to the continent. Many Englishmen will move along, and those who don't will get unemployed.

They won't be able to work on the continent if the UK is no longer in Europe.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
Exactly. Everyone who lost a job to a migrant is going to be voting to leave - as will family and friends. Paying addition taxes to support these migrants with benefits is another motivation to vote to Leave.

This is the fallacy that there are only a fixed number of jobs in a country and that if migrants come in and get job then natives will lose their jobs. Immigrants also consume and create demand which in turn creates jobs. This is basic economics.

There a lot of multinationals that have operations in the UK precisely because it is an English speaking country with unfettered access to the European market. If the UK exits, I would invest heavily in real estate in Ireland.
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 30):
Clearly "never worked" is grounds for expulsion.

Are you aware of the U1 form ?

The U1 form certifies your periods of insurance in another EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland that will be taken into account for the calculation of unemployment benefits.


This article is not that in depth and adds nothing to the reality on the ground. It mentions the possibility of the law enforced not the current process. You can give up your job and walk into another EU country tomorrow and get benefits FACT.

Quote '' The idea of expelling unemployed EU citizens has recently been mooted ''

What % of unemployed people in France ( from other EU states ) were kicked out and denied benefits in 2015? I want to see a reliable source based on national statistics.
 
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pvjin
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 31):
This is the fallacy that there are only a fixed number of jobs in a country and that if migrants come in and get job then natives will lose their jobs. Immigrants also consume and create demand which in turn creates jobs. This is basic economics.

Typically in Europe the real problem seems to be migrants not getting a job and ending up consuming welfare which is obviously bad for the economy, and doesn't really give those migrants enough purchasing power to create that much demand either. As far as I'm aware this welfare shopping has been a problem in the UK too.
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LSZH34
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:08 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 31):
Immigrants also consume and create demand which in turn creates jobs. This is basic economics.

Immigration is only beneficial to a country if the immigrants can offer the same - if not more - skills and knowledge than natives. This is also basic economy. Unfortunately that's not happening.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:27 am

Nice little spin-off from the up-and-coming referendum for the Irish passport office:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ssports-brought-on-by-brexit-fears
 
Kiwirob
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:37 am

Quoting victrola (Reply 31):
They won't be able to work on the continent if the UK is no longer in Europe.

Norway isn't part of the EU, her citizens can work anywhere in Europe, the Swiss have the same right, I think you'll find British citizens will retain the same right, especially if EU citizens, of which there are several million of them, will continue to live and work in the UK. I doubt the UK will expell millions of EU citizens.
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:17 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 35):

Although the ''rush'' seems to be well and truly over now and someone I know who works at the passport office said the applications included a lot from NI who were applying anyway for the normal pre Summer rush so allow for the spin too  
 
Pyrex
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:09 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 24):
For example the free market is an EU power, making it illegal for a country to prop up its companies to the detriment of other ones. This is the kind of things that the UK loves and imposed on countries like France.

And yet France ignores that all the time...
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JJJ
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:38 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 38):
And yet France ignores that all the time...

When making the rules France ensures there will be loopholes big enough for their national champions (they actually use that term) to go through.
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:00 pm

When companies are majority owned by the state it's not that simple to sell them. Especially a company like EDF with its more than 50 nuclear reactors in France alone, we all know that if something goes wrong, it will be the taxpayer footing the bill.

When France ignores the rules it gets fined, happens all the time for various reasons, and I'm sure it happens in other countries too. The usual suspects are help to farmers and fines over river pollution (thanks to farmers).

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
Norway isn't part of the EU, her citizens can work anywhere in Europe, the Swiss have the same right, I think you'll find British citizens will retain the same right, especially if EU citizens, of which there are several million of them, will continue to live and work in the UK. I doubt the UK will expell millions of EU citizens.

Such agreements work both ways, so you're saying that the UK might leave the EU over something that will not change after the exit.
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AirPacific747
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:05 pm

It's a shortsighted solution for Britain to exit the EU. Instead the EU should have less influence in some areas, but with Britain continuing its membership.
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 41):
Instead the EU should have less influence in some areas

As admitted the EU involves itself way too much in our lives. Sure they even tell us what the power of hairdryers and vacuum cleaners should be. They should concentrate on anti terrorism and the migrant crisis. If they put as much effort into that as what they do with less important things then maybe people would not be so annnoyed.


EU referendum: Jean-Claude Juncker says European Union is 'too meddlesome'
Jean-Claude Juncker admits: 'We are interfering in too many domains of their private lives'

The European Union has lost popularity because it over-regulates and interferes too much in people's lives, its most senior official has admitted.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...on-is-too-meddlesome-a6992201.html
 
victrola
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 36):
Norway isn't part of the EU, her citizens can work anywhere in Europe, the Swiss have the same right, I think you'll find British citizens will retain the same right, especially if EU citizens, of which there are several million of them, will continue to live and work in the UK. I doubt the UK will expell millions of EU citizens.

It depends on what the UK is able to negotiate with the EU after Brexit. Expulsion of millions of workers would indeed be hard to imagine. However one of the main issues of the pro Brexit forces is the issue of immigration. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

I just don't see the point of Brexit when you will still have EU citizens able to freely move and work in the UK, when the UK will still have to comply with European regulations if it wants to sell to Europe, and will no longer have any say in formulating these regulations.

Furthermore, when it comes to multinationals investing and setting up in Europe, the UK will no longer be an attractive site. The only reason the UK has an auto industry is that these factories have unfettered access to the EU market. Like I mentioned before, Ireland will benefit from this.

I would also expect another Scottish referendum as they seem to be interested in staying in Europe.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:02 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):
As admitted the EU involves itself way too much in our lives. Sure they even tell us what the power of hairdryers and vacuum cleaners should be. They should concentrate on anti terrorism and the migrant crisis. If they put as much effort into that as what they do with less important things then maybe people would not be so annnoyed.

I completely agree.

At some point, EU even wanted to ban a certain type of candy here as it resembles a pipe.

http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/760/6/620x/6760319-lakridspbie.jpeg

They should stick to more important things.

[Edited 2016-04-22 10:03:31]
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:54 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):
Sure they even tell us what the power of hairdryers and vacuum cleaners should be.

Why shouldn't it and what would be the benefit ? Does the UK have hairdryer manufacturers, does it plan to have some, and they would make specific models not following EU rules to be certain they can't be sold outside the UK ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 45):
Why shouldn't it and what would be the benefit ? Does the UK have hairdryer manufacturers, does it plan to have some, and they would make specific models not following EU rules to be certain they can't be sold outside the UK ?

Totally missed the point AGAIN ! People should have freedom of choice to choose what power of appliance they want and need to buy. Will they ban all cars over 1.2L next ?
 
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Aesma
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:05 pm

I did not miss the point. All those rules used to be made by individual countries, and the UK was good at that, that's why you have things like three wheeled cars.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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OA260
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 47):
I did not miss the point.

You did. You always seem to dodge the questions . The fact that countries used to do has nothing at all to do with the EU bringing in stupid laws which ALL EU citizens have to endure. Even according to Mr Juncker !

Still waiting on those stats to back up your statement on people being kicked out of France BTW! Somehow I knew you would not come up with the goods  
 
prebennorholm
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In The UK

Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:44 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):Next comes British web shops and stores who sell to all Europe. They will of course also move to the continent to avoid customs and VAT complications
Again an easy issue to negotiate as it is beneficial to all involved

You are wrong, Ken777. This it not something which can be handled by "negotiation". After Brexit a UK webshop will have no means to collect Danish VAT when selling to a Dane. Therefore the Danish customer will have a terrible problem when the parcel arrives. That's the reason why no Danes buy at Swiss or Norwegian web shops today.

The problem is solved the way that consumers in the remaining 27 EU countries just avoid buying at British web shops, just like they avoid Swiss and Norwegian shops today. Pretty simple, and works almost overnight.

Likely it has already worked. International web shops have maybe avoided to place new shops in the UK due to the risk of brexit.
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