johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 1:14 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 241):
How old does a person have to be to purchase a gun?


I would think that a person with as strongly held views on the subject would inform themselves on the facts. The correct answer is 18 for a rifle or shotgun and 21 for a handgun.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 3:45 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 249):
I am just wondering why you desire to enforce European laws on the US?

We can't enforce anything.

We just think the European solution is much better.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 249):
There are plenty things in the US that seem strange to Europeans

Welt, the deadly cult around the hallowed shooting irons is one of the most puzzling things on earth. Heck, a gun is a tool, it can be sensible to own and carry one, and one can responsibly deal with one. But as long guns rather kill people instead of providing security, changes are needed.

I find it very fascinating to learn how guns work, how snipers hit a target one mile away, and how combat tactics look like. But yet I find the US gun cult very, very strange.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Scorpio
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 249):
I am just wondering why you desire to enforce European laws on the US?

????

Who's 'enforcing' anything here? We can have an opinion on something, can we not? And we see the disastrous results of their gun laws, and see that we have only a fraction of the gun deaths they do, so we speak up. Don't like that? Tough!

Quote:
There are plenty things in the US that seem strange to Europeans, reaching from the opposition to Obamacare over the treatment of illegal immigrants up to the foreign policy. Yet, the private gun ownership seems to be a much more pressing issue? For some strange reasons people seem have to more compassion for the person committing suicide with a gun (but only if he uses a gun) than for the person dying from cancer or another illness because he could not pay the insurance.

Seriously? You're now complaining about the fact that this thread is NOT about healthcare? Wanna know why? Because it's about guns!

There have been PLENTY of threads here in the past dealing with healthcare, especially in the lead-up to Obamacare, where us Europeans and Canadians were also very involved, often debunking the myths doing the rounds about universal healthcare among US Conservatives (no, we don't have death panels. Yes, our system costs a lot less than yours, etc). There have been lots of those threads, so I really don't get what the point is of your complaining.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 3:52 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 250):
I would think that a person with as strongly held views on the subject would inform themselves on the facts.

I asked that question for a specific reason which you brought up in your very next statement:

Quoting johns624 (Reply 250):
The correct answer is 18 for a rifle or shotgun and 21 for a handgun.

Why, then, do people want gun safety taught in grade school or high school?

Quoting seahawk (Reply 246):
Again, why do you care? It is not as if gun crazy Muricans assault Europeans once they leave the airport.

Gun crazy 'Muricans actually do not care who they shoot it seems.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 242):
I find it interesting that this is a gun safety area that is argued to help save lives and could be common ground, and yet it's being rejected.

But it is not being rejected totally and completely. I have agreed, and still agree, that gun safety training would be wonderful. Just not in school. I still think that an annual class, along with insurance and back ground checks and mental health checks, are key. This way, people can still have access to guns.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 242):
Enough with the fallacies. No one is saying lives don't matter.

When open ended and un-regulated Second Amendment is the only reply from gun nuts, no, lives do not matter.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 5:00 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 251):
We just think the European solution is much better.

That's great. We disagree.

Why can't we just leave it at that? You're not going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours, and at the end of the day, you can't change our laws.

Why the nonstop need to re-visit a topic that ultimately ends in a stalemate of opinion, with no ability on your end to effect the changes you'd like to see?
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Scorpio
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 7:16 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 254):
Why can't we just leave it at that? You're not going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours, and at the end of the day, you can't change our laws.

Why the nonstop need to re-visit a topic that ultimately ends in a stalemate of opinion, with no ability on your end to effect the changes you'd like to see?

Oh, but YOU aren't the one we're trying to convince, and neither are the other extremist gun nuts. You can't be convinced, because whenever arguments or numbers are presented that don't support your position, you ignore them (as you've done a few times in this thread, including just now).

The ones we hope to reach are the many who are not as extreme as you, or are on the fence. They also read these threads. And when they see that the gun nuts' argumentation really doesn't amount to much more than 'mind your own business', 'cuz freedom', 'my cold dead hands' and 'you guys all want to ban guns completely', it may help nudge them over to the good side.

They're the ones we're trying to convince. You guys are simply the tools that help us get there.
 
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pu
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 7:27 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 225):
Therefore I do not understand why Europeans care so much about US gun laws,

I can only speak for myself, but the reason why I care is because I care about America.

I want Americans to retain their freedom to own guns. But I want gun owners to recognize a classic situation has arisen where their freedom is in jeopardy because when one person's freedom starts to interfere with another's ability to live their lives freely, a greater and greater call to restrict freedom inevitably results, which the US Constitution will (correctly) be modified and interpreted to facilitate. You'll fix the problem or you'll lose your guns, I don't want to see that.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 226):
That makes two of us.

I don't think there are many non-Americans who support the US in its unique vision of how to run a nation as much as me, and there are few non-Americans here who without qualification support American leadership in the world, in NATO, against the Russians and against the nutcase Muslims in the Middle East as much as me. SO you might consider my interest along the lines of a friend who wants you to succeed.

(granted, most of the other Europeans here are just throwing stones, in their perpetual desperation to "prove" that the EU is better than America)

Quoting seb146 (Reply 229):
and have gun nuts say "oh, well. Second Amendment" as the only acceptable response.

Gun owners have to take ownership of the problem if they want to keep their gun freedoms. Constantly repeating "its in the constitution" doesn't cut it because this document has been amended in as short as 3 months, and, more importantly, a Democratic-appointed supreme court justice will reverse important pro-gun-rights interpretations of the 2nd Amendment which will give the NRA more gun control than they feared.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 229):
I agree that teaching sex ed to grade school children is a mistake

Why?

As soon as children are able to understand simple biology, sex should be a part of the story. They see dogs humping in the stret and sex on the internet, This relic of religion which treats sex as somehow "adult" or risque needs to go. It's biology. Treating it this way will solve a lot of social problems. (derail thread attempt here)

Quoting scbriml (Reply 230):
Because their freedom and rights apparently trump the freedom and rights of everyone else

Correct.
This failure to recognize when one's rights are hurting others in a deadly way IS the problem.

Gun owners are invoking the Constitution and imagine this is the end of the story. No one sits around for whats wrong whether it's in the Constitution or not.....Senators until the 20th century were not democratically elected; blacks, women etc. could not vote; 18 year olds could previously get drafted but not vote for their leaders; until the 60s voting was denied if a tax was not paid...among many other wrongs supported by the Constitution that were later, rightfully, changed.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 242):
No one is saying lives don't matter.

Yes they are.

The implicit and sometimes outright argued point is that it's mainly a bunch of n*ggers, gang bangers and crackwhores shooting each other and that nice white people don't have to worry too much.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 246):
Again, why do you care?

For the same reason you might care if one neighbour on your street regularly shot a cop, a child or random stranger while the rest of the neighbourhood never shoots anyone.

For me, a healthy America is important to the continued freedom of Europe and is in practical terms the only hope for growing democracy in a world that would ohterwise be China v. Russia v. ISIS v. random dictators. If the US fails, the progress of humanity is in danger. All you have to do is figure out a way to stop the killing and then no one will ever talk about taking away your guns.

I personally would love to see guns a continued feature in every Walmart, available to most anyone. But only if the rights of non-gun-owners to live without gun violence are also protected, which means there is no need to carry a gun to be safe in a shopping mall and no danger of kids getting shot at school. YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACCOMPLISH THIS.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 251):
We just think the European solution is much better.

I don't.

The Americans should carve their own path that emphasizes individual freedom over the collective wisdom of government bureaucracy; and I hope they can.





Pu.

[Edited 2016-05-01 12:38:42]
 
zhiao
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 7:42 pm

@ Scorpio,


I said the vast majority of gun deaths are confined to domestic violence and gang related activity. In other words, random deaths outside these two (which would concern tourists) including these "mass shootings" that you see on TV, constitute a very small fraction.

Mass shootings are typically situations where a random person kills various people. Usually random but I guess if someone kills their entire family then it would be both a mass shooting and domestic dispute.

My point is that if you take out suicides, gang and domestic violence, and look a just "innocent" people, the murder rate is so low that it doesn't justify a tourist to worry about coming here. Put another way, given the distribution of murder rates, the vast majority of the US is just as safe as the vast majority of Europe, with actually lower non homicide rates of crime.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting zhiao (Reply 257):
I said the vast majority of gun deaths are confined to domestic violence and gang related activity. In other words, random deaths outside these two (which would concern tourists) including these "mass shootings" that you see on TV, constitute a very small fraction.

Mass shootings are typically situations where a random person kills various people. Usually random but I guess if someone kills their entire family then it would be both a mass shooting and domestic dispute.

My point is that if you take out suicides, gang and domestic violence, and look a just "innocent" people, the murder rate is so low that it doesn't justify a tourist to worry about coming here. Put another way, given the distribution of murder rates, the vast majority of the US is just as safe as the vast majority of Europe, with actually lower non homicide rates of crime.

Your unvoluntary gun death rates are 10 or more times as high as those in Europe. That is a monumental problem any way you look at it. The main reason us Europeans care about this isn't because we're afraid to get shot when we come to the US, it's because we recognise there's a very serious problem, and we think we may have a solution. It's what you do when you, you know, care.

The claim of 'lower non homicide rates of crime' in the US vs Europe is also highly questionable, as what constitutes a crime or violent crime varies widely from country to country, making direct comparisons difficult. A few years ago there was a claim making the rounds that violent crime rates in the UK were 4 to 5 times higher than in the US. Turned out to be bogus, because the UK definition of 'violent crime' is much wider than that used in the US.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Sun May 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 258):
we think we may have a solution

You don't. Come back when you have one that doesn't violate the U.S. Constitution.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 2:04 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 253):
Why, then, do people want gun safety taught in grade school or high school?

Just because someone can't buy one, doesn't mean that they aren't around them. In most states, you can start hunting when you're 12.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting pu (Reply 256):
As soon as children are able to understand simple biology, sex should be a part of the story.

Right. But, it should be age appropriate. Gun safety courses, however....

Quoting zhiao (Reply 257):
the murder rate is so low that it doesn't justify a tourist to worry about coming here.

With all the kids pulling guns our of their parent's bags and private gun sellers having guns "accidentally" going off and open carry by people who have not had training, I worry about me just walking down the street.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 259):
Come back when you have one that doesn't violate the U.S. Constitution.

With gun nuts and the NRA, there will never ever be anything that does not violate the Constitution. Look at this thread: any mention of anything that even sniffs of making guns less accessible for even one person make every gun nut freak out.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 2:49 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 261):
I worry about me just walking down the street

You're safe. You live in California, where it's almost impossible to get a CCW permit.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 262):
You're safe. You live in California, where it's almost impossible to get a CCW permit.

But there are neighboring states like Arizona an Nevada, not to mention private sales, which do not require background checks.

Besides, earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that a bullet could very easily pass through a wall into someone's brain. Impossible as those odds are, in a free gun society like the United States, it still happens.

I do think that I will be shot at any second by anyone. Like all those "responsible" owners who were shot by their 3 and 4 year olds.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Scorpio
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 5:13 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 259):
You don't. Come back when you have one that doesn't violate the U.S. Constitution.

See, that's the kind of reaction we want you to give: a clear indication you have zero desire to do anything about the astronomical gun death rates in your country, 'cuz freedom 'n shit'. Shows your true colors.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 5:36 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 264):
you have zero desire to do anything about the astronomical gun death rates in your country

Not true at all, but if that's what you need to believe to help you feel smug and superior, knock yourself out.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 7:12 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 264):
See, that's the kind of reaction we want you to give: a clear indication you have zero desire to do anything about the astronomical gun death rates in your country, 'cuz freedom 'n shit'. Shows your true colors.

Actually, EA CO AS is willing to admit there is a problem and willing to talk about how to solve the problem while allowing people the right to keep their firearms. I do not agree with him 100%, but he is willing to talk about this.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 9:34 am

Quoting zhiao (Reply 235):
"Mass shootings" get all the news just like shark attacks--your chance of being killed by one are sooo remote.

I looked really hard for a mass shark attack list, I struggled to find one. Mass shootings are almost a daily occurance, 93 events so far in 2016.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 9:48 am

Quoting pu (Reply 256):
Gun owners have to take ownership of the problem if they want to keep their gun freedoms.

RIGHT!

Being responsible means giving a honest and sincere response to anybody who has a honest and sincere question. "How do you prevent this excessive gun violence in your country?"

"I'm a responsible gun owner, I don't do any harm to anybody else" is not a good answer, as it shies away from the real problem...

Quoting zhiao (Reply 257):

You've touched another problem: Mental health. I have mandatory health insurance, and it costs me about 280 USD a month. Under my plan, I first call a hotline, then a doctor discusses the matter with me, and I get a referral for a doctor visit. The doctor then thinks "Okay, you have a mental health issue which needs treatment.", and then I get 25/30 treatments by a psychiatrist (or a psychotherapist who works with a psychiatrist). At the end of the series, the allowance can be renewed.

Of course it's easy to hide one's issues until they erupt in a deadly clash ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zug_massacre for an example where a gunman entered a state parliament and killed 14 politicians and himself; he suffered from paranoia), but this low-level access prevents many, many deaths!


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 12:27 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 263):
But there are neighboring states like Arizona an Nevada, not to mention private sales, which do not require background checks.

Yes, but if a person is carrying concealed, they are already breaking the law. What's another law that they ignore going to change things? The problem isn't more laws, it's enforcing the ones that we already have on the books. All dealer sales, no matter what state, require a background check. Dealers operate according to federal law.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 269):
The problem isn't more laws, it's enforcing the ones that we already have on the books

That tired saying needs to stop. When the laws are enforced, people scream "Second Amendment!!" and all charges are dropped. The problem is not enforcing the laws we already have. The problem is getting people to understand the law applies to EVERYONE.
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coolian2
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 7:09 pm

I think it's so funny when I'm called a gun grabber. I'd love a handgun for target practice, because I could do with a hobby.

But since I've legally shown I can't be trusted (one DUI), I'm not an option.

I love and hate it.
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johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 7:59 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 270):
When the laws are enforced, people scream "Second Amendment!!"

You're wrong. The old "one with gun, gets you two" charges are the first dropped in plea bargaining.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 272):
You're wrong. The old "one with gun, gets you two" charges are the first dropped in plea bargaining.

You are right. It is not always "Second Amendment!" they scream. Sometimes it is "unlawful search" they scream, too. For braking laws.

How is a state supposed to enforce laws when people keep demanding the law not apply to them?

I still have yet to hear justification by these gun nuts over their alliance with "every life is precious" groups who refuse to talk about birth control at all because life is precious. In other words, the "all guns, all the time, no matter how many lives are taken" are in the same political group (generally) as the "every life, every time" group.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 10:40 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 273):

But you know, my dear seb146, life is only protected as long as it's part of the mother's body. It's totally helpless and dependent on the mother. As soon as it's outside, I'm going to protect my child with mah gunz.

Women need to be chastised so they don't get crazy ideas like to have an abortion. Otherwise, the proud father won't have a child he can protect! A woman getting an abortion is a man who fails to master his wife! A woman getting an abortion can afford a separation, or even a divorce! A woman with a child is more dependent on the man's income, and will not seek a separation or a divorce.

Anti-abortion laws are, like "gun rights", a form of supremacy, or even a form of existence. I have a gun, therefore I am.


David

[Edited 2016-05-02 15:42:00]

[Edited 2016-05-02 15:42:44]
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Mon May 02, 2016 10:53 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 274):
As soon as it's outside, I'm going to protect my child with mah gunz.

That's another thing: as soon as the baby is born, it is a freeloader, mooching off the government and shall receive no assistance in any way, shape, or form because no person should ever be dependent on the government. Especially those mooching newborns.

It is not just limited to abortion. Look at Hobby Lobby and the Catholic Church, who refuse to allow their employees, regardless of religion or party affiliation, to have any access to any birth control. Not to mention the witch hunt against Planned Parenthood.
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johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 1:49 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 273):
I still have yet to hear justification by these gun nuts over their alliance with "every life is precious" groups who refuse to talk about birth control at all because life is precious. In other words, the "all guns, all the time, no matter how many lives are taken" are in the same political group (generally) as the "every life, every time" group.

There you go with the stereotypes. Sorry, I'm not part of that crowd. Maybe we should start talking about gay stereotypes? I'm sure that you wouldn't mind that, would you?
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 5:58 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 276):
There you go with the stereotypes.

Go back and read what I wrote. I was very careful to not paint with a broad brush. Because right wingers never do that...  
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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pu
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 8:02 am

Quoting johns624 (Reply 276):
There you go with the stereotypes.

It's no stereotype. It's the official stance of the Republican Party.

All life is sacred. But guns are essential in case we have to kill that which God made sacred.


https://www.gop.com/platform/we-the-people/






Pu.
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 11:49 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 277):
Go back and read what I wrote. I was very careful to not paint with a broad brush. Because right wingers never do that...

Yeah, three paragraphs and you made sure that you stuck "generally" in parenthesis in the third one. The problem is that you were replying (and quoting) ME and I'm not a conservative or a Republican. I'm a moderate who agrees with one side on a few issues, the other on a few more and think that both fringes are full of shit on most of them. Back off!
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 3:47 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 279):
you were replying (and quoting) ME and I'm not a conservative or a Republican.

I was responding to you because I was trying to point out that I think the reasoning in what you are thinking is awkward. Where my opinion differs from yours and how it looks to me. I, too, consider myself a moderate who agrees with one side on a few issues, the other on a few more and think both fringes are full of it on most of them. I am constantly being attacked for being an extremist liberal, instead of debating the issue. So, no, I will not "back off." Perhaps thou doth protest too much. It is an internet forum. Not a court of law.
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ER757
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 4:37 pm

Here's a good example of the "good guy with a gun" theory. How'd that work out?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/05/03/he-thought-he-could-help-concealed-carry-gun-wielder-intervenes-in-domestic-dispute-and-is-shot-dead/
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 281):

Here's a good example of the "good guy with a gun" theory. How'd that work out?

He screwed up, but at least he tried to help.
 
johns624
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 6:54 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 280):
I was responding to you because I was trying to point out that I think the reasoning in what you are thinking is awkward.

No, it's not. Show me where the "gun lobby" has ever objected to taking guns away from criminals and punishing them.
 
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pu
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 7:48 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 283):
Show me where the "gun lobby" has ever objected to taking guns away from criminals and punishing them
http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2016/j...ates-come-out-firing-in-bid-to-ex/

The NRA constantly objects to efforts aimed at keeping guns from criminals.



Pu
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 9:09 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 282):
He screwed up, but at least he tried to help.

Is that what you call it....

But hey, its ok cause he "tried to help"   

I can tell you that from this side of the pond, its attitudes like this that make your country look like a circus !
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 9:40 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 282):
He screwed up, but at least he tried to help.

He screwed up?

A U.S. Marine screwed up, it seems.

Most "good guys" with a gun are much less trained than this man who sadly died.



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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pu
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 10:01 pm

Just curious.

Since all the reasons given to explain why guns are needed in the US center on protecting self, family, or property.......is there any objection to substituting non-lethal technology that is equally effective at neutralising threats?





Pu.
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 10:15 pm

Thread is going great, guys. Keep it up.

I'm learning a lot of new opinions and facts I never knew before! I might be changing my mind after all.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Tue May 03, 2016 11:51 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 287):
is there any objection to substituting non-lethal technology that is equally effective at neutralising threats?

Yes. The NRA and their supporters and other mixed and assorted gun nuts start screaming about how the Second Amendment is precious and God given and how dare anyone try to make laws against that which God has given us type thing.

Any time there is a mass shooting, these people go on the offensive, before anyone says anything, and starts in with "here come the gun grabbers! They are going to take our guns away!" Every time. We can't even have a discussion because they shut it down before it even starts.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
L-188
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 1:15 am

Quoting pu (Reply 287):

Just curious.

Since all the reasons given to explain why guns are needed in the US center on protecting self, family, or property.......is there any objection to substituting non-lethal technology that is equally effective at neutralising threats?

No in theory but in practice there is no such thing.

Plus non-lethal weapons don't put venison on the table.

That is one thing the gun grabbers don't realize, that people still have weapons to put food on the table.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 289):
Every time. We can't even have a discussion because they shut it down before it even starts.

And that discussion need to be shut down, because it is always a gun-grabbing POS that comes on like and starts ranting about how firearms are bad and nobody should own them.

That was why The Commodore started this tread, to gloat. He doesn't give a damn about the victims of those crimes. He doesn't want to discuss why the crime happened. He just wants to make an screeching rant about the evils of firearms as they exist in his mind. Without regard to the truth.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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pu
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 2:23 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):

No in theory but in practice there is no such thing.

Then the gun grabbers just have to invent the non-lethal technology, it seems to me. That would end the argument that guns are needed for protection.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):

That is one thing the gun grabbers don't realize, that people still have weapons to put food on the table.

Ok, understood.

If Hillary wins, she'll fill the current Supreme Court vacancy with someone more left than the guy Obama chose. The new 5 person majority of the court will hear city gun control cases and reverse Scalia's effect....places like Chicago and New York and San Francisco will quickly render guns practically illegal, along with probably a few other places.

Thankfully, vennison isn't often put on the table by local hunters in Manhattan, and you'll be able to hunt in most any rural area...and of course all Republican states, rural or not.

Is this ok with you?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 289):
how the Second Amendment

I'd love to see Americans keep their guns. Unfortunately the gun enthusiasts don't seem interested in solving gun crime nor in protecting the safety of non gun owners who coose not to arm themselves. What they should do is figure out how to stop or severely curtail the killings in Houston or Kansas City (or other Red states) as proof to the gun grabbers that gun freedoms can be kept while gun violence ends.

It will all change when Hillary appoints 1-2 justices, yet gun owners aren't giving anyone any reason for non gun owners to protect gun rights.






Pu.
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 2:36 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
That is one thing the gun grabbers don't realize, that people still have weapons to put food on the table.

True for some people who live in the country, not true of people who live in cities. I suspect most people who own guns don't need them to hunt.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
And that discussion need to be shut down, because it is always a gun-grabbing POS that comes on like and starts ranting about how firearms are bad and nobody should own them.

Are you any closer to finding a direct quote where anyone's said that?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
That was why The Commodore started this tread, to gloat.

I'm sure he did, I mean that's the first thing that pops into my mind when a shooting happens: 'People got shot, I can GLOAT!'

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
He doesn't give a damn about the victims of those crimes.

He gives much more of a damn than you, you couldn't care any less what happens as a consequence of having easy access to guns. It's not rocket science to see that higher gun killing rates are higher in countries where they are easier to access.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
He doesn't want to discuss why the crime happened.

It happened because a guy was upset that his wife was getting divorced. What more do you need to discuss?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
He just wants to make an screeching rant about the evils of firearms as they exist in his mind. Without regard to the truth.

Or he thinks that maybe you should be grown up about your gun problem and do something about it. If you put a fraction of the effort into curbing deaths from guns as you do into stopping terrorists then maybe you wouldn't have 3 9/11s worth of homicides every year.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 3:13 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
That was why The Commodore started this tread, to gloat.

To gloat !

You are one sick puppy aren't you  Wow!
Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
He just wants to make an screeching rant about the evils of firearms as they exist in his mind.

My mind.....

Have you even read through this thread, I doubt it, because if you had, you'd soon realise that its not in my mind, its your reality every single day in the good o'l USA      

Quoting L-188 (Reply 290):
Without regard to the truth.

The truth..... you wouldn't know it if it bites you on the arse

Anyway, the truth as you put it, is that your country enjoys unparalleled deaths by guns every day of the week, far more so than any country in this civilised world we all live.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 292):
I'm sure he did, I mean that's the first thing that pops into my mind when a shooting happens: 'People got shot, I can GLOAT!'

These are the sorts of people who's mentality needs to be changed. But having said that, I won't hold me breath.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 292):
He gives much more of a damn than you, you couldn't care any less what happens as a consequence of having easy access to guns.

Your spot on, he couldn't... as it witnessed by his posts, and the way he feels so threatened by open discussion.

Amazing !

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 292):
It happened because a guy was upset that his wife was getting divorced. What more do you need to discuss?

Maybe I should have opened a thread on "divorce" instead.
 
Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 292):
Or he thinks that maybe you should be grown up about your gun problem and do something about it. If you put a fraction of the effort into curbing deaths from guns as you do into stopping terrorists then maybe you wouldn't have 3 9/11s worth of homicides every year.

Again spot on. He just responds that way because somehow, the slightest hint of suggesting some sort of meaningful gun control, sends him into hysteria   
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
coolian2
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 3:39 am

I like being called a gun grabber. Never mind I'd love to have a gun and go hunting - hell even knocking down cans off a fence would be a bit of fun to me.

I don't have delusions of saving someone from a gunman and wouldn't rate myself to protect my house.

At least I'm not disingenuous like certain members here.
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qf789
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead.

Wed May 04, 2016 3:59 am

Part 2 is now open, please continue discussion here

Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2 (by qf789 May 3 2016 in Non Aviation)
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