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Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 am

Continue discussion here

Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead. (by TheCommodore Apr 23 2016 in Non Aviation)
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 6:55 am

From L-188 in the locked thread:

And that discussion need to be shut down, because it is always a gun-grabbing POS that comes on like and starts ranting about how firearms are bad and nobody should own them.

Just reading that entire post makes me sick. Every time there is a mass shooting, I am one of the first to be shouted down for being a "gun grabbing liberal" but I am also the first to point out how my family and I got through a couple of winters thanks to deer hunters.

I am told I just want to take everyone's guns while forgetting that I have never ever said that. Likewise with all the others who are sick to their very core over children and women and innocent people being gunned down just so some sick perverts can go blow stuff up.

Those are the ones who need to be denied gun permits. Not the deer hunters or the firearms collectors.

Call me a POS for valuing life. How does that make you look?
 
aloges
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 7:39 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
Just reading that entire post makes me sick.

There's a lot of fanaticism coming from a small number of people. L-188 is either one of them or a very convincing and highly experienced troll.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 7:50 am

Non-lethal weapons?

That would be the touchstone of the "I need a gun to protect my life and my property" faction. One could imagine a rifle used to subdue large animals, the tip filled with etorphine or another strong opioid. Due to respiratory depression (the brain simply forgets to breathe) this will be still deadly if CPR is not administered, but it's still much less lethal - you can train a layman to do CPR, but you cannot teach a layman to stop internal hemorrhage.

The talk about "Non-lethal weapons don't put venison on the table" is inane.


David
 
JJJ
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 12:37 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 3):
The talk about "Non-lethal weapons don't put venison on the table" is inane.

You don't want to eat anything that's been poisoned.

Wild animals are bad to eat already without pumping them with even more nasty stuff.
 
Toni_
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 12:43 pm

Total Number of Incidents 1,546
Number of Deaths 385
Number of Injuries 800
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured 21
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured 73
Mass Shooting 11
Officer Involved Incidents 136
Home Invasions 65
Defensive Use 47
Accidental Shootings 71

This is since the day after the first thread got started. Only 21 children were involved in this 10 day time span. Ofcourse we gonna substract the suicide and gang related numbers. All those tricycle drive-by shootings paint a worse picture. And let's not forget the made up stories and bs occassions the gun-grabbing folks included where daddy was hunting and the loud bang caused Timmy to scaredly bang his head against a tree. Those don't count.
That leaves us with like... what? Only a couple of kids, tops? Pretty decent numbers!
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
There's a lot of fanaticism coming from a small number of people.

And they are the loudest and most funded and most followed. Those of us who want an actual conversation so we can at least try to stop mass shootings can not have that conversation because of that small group of loud and well funded people.

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
L-188 is either one of them or a very convincing and highly experienced troll.

He is one of them, unfortunately...
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 7:41 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 4):
You don't want to eat anything that's been poisoned.

And yet you didn't read (or understand) my posting. After you've defended your life or property, you usually don't eat the attacker. Serial killers are discussed in another thread.


David
 
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scbriml
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 7:53 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I am also the first to point out how my family and I got through a couple of winters thanks to deer hunters.

How many hunters use handguns or semi-automatic weapons to kill their food?
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Wed May 04, 2016 9:21 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 6):
And they are the loudest and most funded and most followed. Those of us who want an actual conversation so we can at least try to stop mass shootings can not have that conversation because of that small group of loud and well funded people.

Ah, the truth comes out. Seb doesn't care about minority inner city gangbangers blowing each others brains out, just the mass shootings of white people that make the 24 hour news cycles run.

You don't want a conversation at all, you want to impose your (racist) will.

-DiamondFlyer
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 5):
Total Number of Incidents 1,546
Number of Deaths 385
Number of Injuries 800
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured 21
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured 73
Mass Shooting 11
Officer Involved Incidents 136
Home Invasions 65
Defensive Use 47
Accidental Shootings 71

That's what freedom looks like son!

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9):
Ah, the truth comes out. Seb doesn't care about minority inner city gangbangers blowing each others brains out, just the mass shootings of white people that make the 24 hour news cycles run.

As if you give a crap
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9):
You don't want a conversation at all

Its you that doesn't want a conversation   

Each and every time there is the mere suggestion of a solution in order to try and lower your countries abysmal record of gun deaths each year, you carry on like a pork chop citing all sorts of pathetic excuses as to why nothing can be changed, especially the "untouchable" constitution of yours.

Calling people names such as "gun grabbers and "anti gunners" won't make this problem of yours go away....

Unbelievable !

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
As if you give a crap

        
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 3:36 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9):
You don't want a conversation at all, you want to impose your (racist) will.

How many times in this thread alone have I asked why the gun nuts are in political bed with the "every life is sacred" group? How many times in this thread alone have I brought up children being gunned down? How many times in this thread alone have I wanted to have a conversation only to be told my only reason for posting here is to take away all guns?

Again, I have to ask:

When and where have I demanded that all guns be taken from every person in the United States? Not just this thread but all postings since I started posting. Where and when. Go ahead. I'll wait.....
 
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scbriml
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 7:59 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
How many times in this thread alone have I brought up children being gunned down?

Maybe I missed where any of our regular pro-gun advocates expressed any regret over any mass shooting? Is it just me, or do they really not give a shit about the Sandy Hook kids?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 9:55 am

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 5):
Total Number of Incidents 1,546
Number of Deaths 385
Number of Injuries 800
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured 21
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured 73
Mass Shooting 11
Officer Involved Incidents 136
Home Invasions 65
Defensive Use 47
Accidental Shootings 71

Let's break this down:

Number of Deaths 385; statistically, two thirds would be suicides. Is that correct? I don't know where you got your figures from, but annually, 2/3 are suicides (not that it's a good thing, but mitigates the OMIGODITSAGUNLOOKOUT thing)
Number of Teens (age 12-17) killed/injured 73; how many were killed vs. injured? Were the injuries due to lack of safe handling?
Home Invasions 65; but I thought these "rarely occurred"? Hmm...
Defensive Use 47; wait, I thought that "rarely occurred" as well? Hmmm....
Accidental shootings 71; are those part of the deaths/injuries listed above, or are they not?
 
aloges
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
the OMIGODITSAGUNLOOKOUT thing

That "thing" is entirely a figment of your imagination.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 4:16 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 13):
Is it just me, or do they really not give a shit about the Sandy Hook kids?

Some do, some don't. The loudest and best funded (and their followers) ignore the kids and innocent people and simply start shouting "LIBERAL GUN GRABBER!!!" any time anyone starts talking about how we can fix an obvious problem.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Number of Deaths 385; statistically, two thirds would be suicides. Is that correct?

In a matter of a few days. But, we can not know because the CDC has threats to it's funding if it tries to research this. I typed in "CDC research on gun violence" into Google and came back with several very good articles as to why. This was the top one that came back to me, but feel free to brows any of them:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/
 
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 8:48 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):Number of Deaths 385; statistically, two thirds would be suicides. Is that correct?

In a matter of a few days.

So you're conceding the fact that home invasions do happen regularly, firearms are used in self-defense with FAR more regularity than has been previously acknowledged, and that accidental shootings - which could be mitigated with gun safety training in schools - are a large part of the problem?

I'm glad we finally agree on these things!   
 
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Thu May 05, 2016 11:42 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 13):
Maybe I missed where any of our regular pro-gun advocates expressed any regret over any mass shooting?

Where is the anti-gunners outrage at all the other shootings, besides the extremely rare mass shootings? The answer is, they don't care, because it's not white kids getting gunned down, it's black city kids getting killed.

If the anti-gunner types seriously wanted to solve the problem of murders, they would move to ban handguns, not long guns. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they dont' want to solve the problem, they want to make themselves feel good about "solving" a problem.

-DiamondFlyer
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 5:23 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
they dont' want to solve the problem, they want to make themselves feel good about "solving" a problem.

As opposed to the gun nuts who watch children being shot to death and decide that ignoring the problem is the best course of action.

And, by the way, it is not a ban on hand guns anyone is asking for. It is better background checks, using the laws already on the books (that the gun nuts hate, so they are just used when the mood strikes) and better laws that hold gun owners accountable, if anything should happen. Like kids getting hold of a gun and shooting randomly. Like has been happening a lot lately.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
So you're conceding the fact that home invasions do happen regularly

The statistics are talking about guns. You are talking about home invasions. I have said it before, and I will say it again: it is much more likely for a home robbery to happen when no one is home. Those that happen when someone is home are much less frequent, but do happen.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 6:09 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
Where is the anti-gunners outrage at all the other shootings, besides the extremely rare mass shootings?

Well, it appears we disagree on the definition of "extremely rare". But come on, let's hear your answer - do you care anything about the kids killed at Sandy Hook or not?

BTW, I don't care about the colour of the kids' skin, or any victim of gun crime for that matter. I see plenty of outrage when, for example, police gun down unarmed black kids.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
If the anti-gunner types seriously wanted to solve the problem of murders, they would move to ban handguns, not long guns.

Again with the gun-grabbing mentality and paranoia. Where in this thread has anyone called for a "long gun" ban or a "total ban on guns"?

So, let's see if we can get you to answer another question - what is the real issue with requiring a licence, training and testing in order to own guns? Come on, you can do it.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 6:34 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):
Come on, you can do it.

You'd think so wouldn't you....but he can pilot a plane.... supposedly, although I wouldn't like him to fly me ANYWHERE !  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 10:30 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9):
Ah, the truth comes out. Seb doesn't care about minority inner city gangbangers blowing each others brains out, just the mass shootings of white people that make the 24 hour news cycles run.

Seb being black and gay makes him a minority in anyones book.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 4:09 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
Where is the anti-gunners outrage at all the other shootings, besides the extremely rare mass shootings? The answer is, they don't care, because it's not white kids getting gunned down, it's black city kids getting killed.

Literally every time there's a mass shooting, the "anti gunners" point to the TENS OF THOUSANDS of deaths in addition to the mass shooting. The script is identical after every shooting, because those shootings are so rare relative to the Mount Everest of gun deaths. But your jaw is too busy flapping "THEY GUN TUK URR GUNZ" to hear it. So be honest, DiamondFlyer, you don't give a crap about any of the deaths as longs as you keep your toys with no requirement of responsibility whatsoever. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Just own it! You'd hold onto a shred of respect if you just admitted you don't give a sh!t about any deaths, rather than running your mouth trying to deflect blame.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
So you're conceding the fact that home invasions do happen regularly, firearms are used in self-defense with FAR more regularity than has been previously acknowledged,

This is also completely false. Home invasions do happen, but deadly home invasions are exceedingly rare. The problem is the pro gun crowd sets this against a fictitious world where owning a gun does not increase the one's risk of violent death. Owning a gun means your likelihood to injure or kill yourself or others goes through the roof, whether intentionally or by mistake. Setting that against the risk of a deadly home invasion and now you're trying to manage an incredibly rare occurrence with a much more dangerous tool that increases your risk far more.

[Edited 2016-05-06 09:15:42]
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
Seb being black and gay makes him a minority in anyones book.

When did I become black???? That is the second funniest thing I have read this morning, behind the replies to the Trump Bowl.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21):
You'd think so wouldn't you....but he can pilot a plane.... supposedly, although I wouldn't like him to fly me ANYWHERE !

He may have messed up views on gun control, but I don't see what that has to do with being a pilot. Or doctor. Or accountant. Remember, any landing you walk away from is a good landing.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 4:47 pm

"Three people have been shot outside Westfield Montgomery mall in Bethesda, Maryland, police and witnesses said"

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Bethesda-Police-Say-378417311.html
 
Okie
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Fri May 06, 2016 10:50 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 25):
"Three people have been shot outside Westfield Montgomery mall in Bethesda, Maryland, police and witnesses said"

Homeland Security employee on a rampage.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/us/maryland-shootings/index.html

Okie
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
He may have messed up views on gun control, but I don't see what that has to do with being a pilot. Or doctor. Or accountant.

Far to aggressive and agro towards anyone who has a differing opinion on this tragic topic. If there was some sort of problem in the cockpit, Id prefer someone a little more disciplined and receptive to other points of view.

I don't think that is a particularly good attribute for someone to have.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
Remember, any landing you walk away from is a good landing.

Of course, I agree.

I think Maverick has put it very well.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Literally every time there's a mass shooting, the "anti gunners" point to the TENS OF THOUSANDS of deaths in addition to the mass shooting. The script is identical after every shooting, because those shootings are so rare relative to the Mount Everest of gun deaths. But your jaw is too busy flapping "THEY GUN TUK URR GUNZ" to hear it. So be honest, DiamondFlyer, you don't give a crap about any of the deaths as longs as you keep your toys with no requirement of responsibility whatsoever. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Just own it! You'd hold onto a shred of respect if you just admitted you don't give a sh!t about any deaths, rather than running your mouth trying to deflect blame.
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 4:54 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
If there was some sort of problem in the cockpit, Id prefer someone a little more disciplined and receptive to other points of view.

Maybe he does. Have you flown with him? I have not, so I will not bring that up. I disagree with his view on guns. That is all I can call him on, at this point.

Quoting Okie (Reply 26):
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 25):
"Three people have been shot outside Westfield Montgomery mall in Bethesda, Maryland, police and witnesses said"

Homeland Security employee on a rampage.

Here is the "liberal" in me coming out: is it coincidence that a DHS employee is shooting? Could this person have been just fired from their post? Could this person have been in a bad break up and just happens to work for DHS? Could this person have just found out their child was killed and is mad at the world? As a "liberal gun grabber," I will wait for further news before I jump to conclusions.

That said, there still should be some kind of mental exams for gun owners AND AND AND mental help available to anyone in this country, regardless. Mental illness needs to be addressed in this country, both in regards to guns and completely separate, and nothing at all to do with guns.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 6:28 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 28):
That is all I can call him on, at this point.

I see someone who is aggressive and angry towards people on here, myself included, who are simply suggesting that things regarding the alarming rate of gun trouble in the US, be addressed, and adequately. He won't have a bar of it  
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 8:58 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):So you're conceding the fact that home invasions do happen regularly, firearms are used in self-defense with FAR more regularity than has been previously acknowledged,
This is also completely false.

Ok, so you're saying the statistics cited by Toni_ in reply 5 are false?

Great - can you share your source, please?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 pm

"One Week in April, Four Toddlers Shot and Killed Themselves"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/us...acement=2&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=2

Quoting NYT:
A 2013 investigation by The New York Times of children killed with firearms found
that accidental shootings like these were being vastly undercounted by official tabulations, and
were occurring about twice as often as records said.


It would be a very easy thing (if you are a true "responsible" gun owner and just pretending to be one), to keep
your unloaded weapon(s) in a locked cabinet with the ammo kept in a separate storage.

You would still have your guns but it would prevent any children from finding and firing those weapons.

[Edited 2016-05-07 06:20:20]
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 29):
I see someone who is aggressive and angry towards people on here

I see all of that, too. Knowing me and who I am in real life, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his piloting skills.

Also, keep in mind that this thread is about guns. People in this country are very passionate about the topic. Some people can write very persuasive arguments that can quickly devolved into name calling. I am disappointed he started with the name calling. But, until I have seen his piloting skills, I refuse to call him on that, nor will I call his piloting skills into question in a thread about guns.
 
coolian2
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sat May 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
If the anti-gunner types seriously wanted to solve the problem of murders, they would move to ban handguns, not long guns.

Sounds good to me. In fact, I....

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):
I've said it before and I'll say it again, they dont' want to solve the problem, they want to make themselves feel good about "solving" a problem.

Oh. You're just being a douche again.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 7:05 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):
Great - can you share your source, please?

Your odds of dying in a home break in are extremely small, virtually zero. Bringing a gun into the house increases the likelihood that you kill/injure yourself or someone you care for astronomically. You're trying to "prevent" an incredibly rare event by bringing enormous risk upon yourself. You're trading an infinitesimal risk for a much larger, very real risk.

"My research showed that a gun owner was 43 times more likely to shoot and kill a family member than that he'd shoot and kill anybody else."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion...otection-b9912440z1-207958831.html

" A recent meta-analysis of 16 studies examined the relationship between firearms and gun deaths. Gun ownership doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk of suicide. "

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...of_homicide_accidents_suicide.html
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 8:09 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
our odds of dying in a home break in are extremely small, virtually zero. Bringing a gun into the house increases the likelihood that you kill/injure yourself or someone you care for astronomically.

CDC is not allowed, thanks to NRA, to study that. The fact that only "left wing" (so-called) outlets report this say something.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 10:05 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):Great - can you share your source, please?

Your odds of dying in a home break in are extremely small, virtually zero.

That's not what I asked. Cite your source refuting the statistics from Toni.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 4:49 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
That's not what I asked. Cite your source refuting the statistics from Toni.

I have no idea what the source is. Neither did you. But if the net conclusion is...

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 5):
what? Only a couple of kids, tops? Pretty decent numbers!

...only a few dead kids in a couple weeks, you must be so proud 
 
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scbriml
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 7:02 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):
...only a few dead kids in a couple weeks, you must be so proud

I'm sure all our resident pro-gunners will be along shortly to express their regrets. As usual...
 
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seb146
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Sun May 08, 2016 11:20 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):Great - can you share your source, please?

Your odds of dying in a home break in are extremely small, virtually zero.

That's not what I asked. Cite your source refuting the statistics from Toni.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

And there is also the facts of family members shooting family members in the home because "I thought it was a burgler" or "I couldn't see who it was" or "I thought the gun was not loaded" or other "responsible" claims.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 12:16 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 39):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):Great - can you share your source, please?

Your odds of dying in a home break in are extremely small, virtually zero.

That's not what I asked. Cite your source refuting the statistics from Toni.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii...b.txt

Once again, not what I asked for. Cite any source refuting the statistics from Toni.

I'm waiting...
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 40):
Cite any source refuting the statistics from Toni.

I'm waiting...

What's his source? What's to refute? 1500 killed/injured by guns in 10 days according to his statistics; what makes you think that's so great?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 39):
And there is also the facts of family members shooting family members in the home because "I thought it was a burgler" or "I couldn't see who it was" or "I thought the gun was not loaded" or other "responsible" claims.

 checkmark Far FAR more likey than ever shooting an armed intruder.

[Edited 2016-05-08 19:38:52]
 
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seb146
Posts: 24169
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 40):
Once again, not what I asked for.

An interesting read, anyway.

And those killed in 10 days are nothing.

That is really sad. Guns are more important. Let's just treat the murdered like they are stupid and horrific people and how dare they even live. Let's not do anything to make sure it does not happen again.

But you want to argue some random point. Because that is more important than life.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15891
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 3:30 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
you want to argue some random point

No, I want you to acknowledge that some of your arguments - like "home invasions don't often happen" and "a good guy with a gun saving the day rarely happens" are bullshit.
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 7014
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RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 3:54 am

I am not a gun owner and hope never to be, but why are so many non-Americans so interested in something that will probably never affect them? I think Americans alone should be the ones to decide that.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):
like "home invasions don't often happen" and "a good guy with a gun saving the day rarely happens" are bullshit.

These are both well documented facts. A good guy blowing away himself and/or his family/friends is exponentially more likely than "saving the day". But all of this was really in Toni's list: in ten days: 1500 killed/injured, 65 home invasions, 47 defensive use. 20-30x more injuries/deaths than home invasions or defensive use, still with zero clue as to the source or veracity of the data. So I'm not sure why you keep referring it to backup your nonsense when it clearly blows it out of the water?
 
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seb146
Posts: 24169
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 5:24 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 44):
why are so many non-Americans so interested in something that will probably never affect them?

America is a huge trading partner and many people come to visit or study or work. People don't want to be shot just sitting in a movie theater or in their class room.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 44):
I think Americans alone should be the ones to decide that.

And we have. The NRA has decided there will be no discussion because talking about doing anything is hatred of the Constitution and hatred of America.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):
"a good guy with a gun saving the day rarely happens"

It doesn't. Show me where and when that happened.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):
"home invasions don't often happen"

That part I do agree with. I pointed out that most burglaries happen when the residents are not home. However, your continuing to insist that guns foil home invasions is, in your words, bullshit.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15891
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 6:43 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 45):
65 home invasions, 47 defensive use

All in a ten day span.

Certainly shoots holes (pardon the pun) in the theories that these "seldom occur."
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 7:19 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 47):
Certainly shoots holes (pardon the pun) in the theories that these "seldom occur."

1500 killed or injured by guns but OF COURSE you're on a dumb semantics tear for something that is 20+ times less common, based on data you have no idea where it came from, or whether it's even valid. If 65 home invasions is an issue you need to highlight, then WTF are 1500 deaths/injuries? Something to ignore? Jesus christ the stupidity is off the charts.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Yet Another US Shooting, 6 Dead Part 2

Mon May 09, 2016 7:36 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48):
1500 killed or injured by guns but OF COURSE you're on a dumb semantics tear for something that is 20+ times less common

Perhaps it's his way of admitting/pointing out that he doesn't have or need anything else. The NRA et al have already purchased the rules and regulations that allow everyone unchecked (if not always legal) access to a huge variety of firearms, so while it's clear as daylight that the "a gun in everyone's hand makes everyone safer from gun violence" approach doesn't work, his battle is not an uphill one.

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