Well, who would have expected Red Bull to lock-out the second row of the grid, keeping both Ferraris behind in the third row.

What do people think of the promotion of Max Verstappen to the senior team?

Here's the top-10 of the starting grid. Nice to see a McLaren make it to Q3.

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:22.000
2 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:22.280
3 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull Racing 1:22.680
4 Max Verstappen Red Bull Racing 1:23.087
5 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:23.113
6 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1:23.334
7 Valtteri Bottas Williams 1:23.522
8 Carlos Sainz Toro Rosso 1:23.643
9 Sergio Perez Force India 1:23.782
10 Fernando Alonso McLaren 1:23.981

I have not been so excited in a long time with F1 since the surprise promotion of Max to the main team!

Max has a lot of talent, but what I like the most about him, that its exciting to watch him race! He tries to overtake where nobody else dares to overtake and he has this kind of fearless attitude that makes him exciting to watch.
I am very curious what he can do at Red Bull in the race...
This promotion, even though it might be cruel for Kyvat, has waken up Red Bull... It looks like Ricciardo has got new motivation and energy and the whole team is acting more vibrant and the results from Quali show this!

I just hope Ferarri sort out whats wrong over there and they will be able to hunt down the Mercs together with Red Bull...

Well that was an awkward drivers press conference! It was a bit cruel to make Kvyat attend (although him being there is obviously very relevant) though Alonso was very kind by fooling around and taking a bit of heat of him.

The quali session was fantastic: especially from RIC and HAM. Nice to see a McLaren in Q3 also.



I find it amusing how getting 'caught out by a gust of wind' is now a viable excuse according to David Croft.....

Quoting kasimir (Reply 1):

I'm more excited about Pascal Wehrlein; every bit as talented, but without all the hype and without swearing at his team over the radio. Pascal has got where he has based entirely on his talent; his sirname/father has not been a factor at all.

Quoting kasimir (Reply 1): It looks like Ricciardo has got new motivation and energy and the whole team is acting more vibrant and the results from Quali show this!

Absolutely: seems that RIC didn't feel as highly pressured to perform when KVY was his teammate.

Jeez, the rest of this season between Hamilton and Rosberg will be interesting to follow after todays crash.

It is heartbreaking to listen to the commentators at Skysports as they try to blame Rosberg in every possible way while defending Hamilton. What happened to staying neutral?

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): It is heartbreaking to listen to the commentators at Skysports as they try to blame Rosberg in every possible way while defending Hamilton. What happened to staying neutral?

They are being neutral, you are just a Rosberg fan  (Sarcasm may have been used)

I think especially Brundle is bad at favouring/defending Hamilton.

/Lars

I think it´s lewis´s fault, but Mercedes do have a rule, " even if you are the one with right of way, dont force it and take your teammate out". Toto Wolf just came up on german TV saying it is not clear cut, so they are not yet blaming Lewis only...!

Quoting larshjort (Reply 5): I think especially Brundle is bad at favouring/defending Hamilton

Less than a minute after the crash they all concluded that Hamilton had his wing in there so Rosberg should have given him room. I guess there is no point to investigate this after the race, apparently we already have an answer.


I want to agree with Niki Lauda, Hamilton lost yet again his pole in the first few corners, and that made him see red. He was going to try get back that position at any cost. Unfortunately a bit too shortsighted of him as they had a long race ahead of them.

It really has been a huge change since last season in how Hamilton is racing and behaving. As if he has lost his edge that gave him his WDC last season.

I think Mercedes will be very neutral in their comments until after the Race Stewards have made their determination after the race.
Personally, I think the blame is about 50/50 % to both Nico and Lewis.
My only real worry is that Mercedes might institute team orders for the balance of the season and not let the two drivers race head to head. Interesting times ahead for sure.

The result is in ... No further comment  

Fantastic job by Max! An absolutely stunning drive. I'm feeling a bit sorry for Ricciardo right now: so close to getting on the podium.

Also, someone should probably put Kvyat on suicide watch.

[Edited 2016-05-15 07:09:03]

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 10): Fantastic job by Max! An absolutely stunning drive. I'm feeling a bit sorry for Ricciardo right now: so close to getting on the podium.

There are rumours running round that Red Bull and Toro Rosso has a way of cheating the minimum tyre pressure regulation, maybe it had an effect on the bowout as he was on the youngest tires of top 4.

Congratulations to Verstappen. Must say I cheered for Raikkonen when it became clear he and Max wouldn't pit.

/Lars

We could use a lot more instances of brain fade from the Mercedes drivers. Sure made this race great!

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): It is heartbreaking to listen to the commentators at Skysports as they try to blame Rosberg in every possible way while defending Hamilton.

Rosberg made a mistake and Hamilton had the chance to overtake him. Rosberg then veered to the right (away from the racing line for the upcoming right turn), forcing Hamilton onto the grass. IMHO, Rosberg lucky not to be punished. I bet he would have been if they weren't in the same team.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):

Some sky pundits for Hamilton, some for Rosberg in my opinion, maybe not neutral but balanced.

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 6):

I'm not so balanced, no way was it Hamiltons fault.

In Rosbergs inteveiw he said he was in the wrong engine mode. He lost speed going round bend 3 due to harvesting electrical power which slows the cars down, thats why his rear light was flashing.

In Hamiltons interview, he said he was 17k's faster, they can get this data from the cars.

Rosberg was slow and there was way more than a cars width on the right of his line. Hamilton, with his 17k speed advantage, went for the line to the right of the track. Rosberg aggressively moved across forcing Hamilton off the track and Hamilton was left with nowhere to go but the grass. Regulations stipulate you can block but must leave a cars width, Rosberg didn't leave a cars width. Rosberg was caught out by his own mistake and made an aggressive move to block Hamilton who had more speed because he didn't make a mistake. These guys are racers, if they see a gap whilst following a slower car and can get past they will take it, any driver in the world would go for a gap that size with speed advantage of 17k, stupid aggressive blocking by Rosberg caused the crash.

I find it hard to believe that if it was a Manor going 17k slower than Rosberg and the Manor veered across the track like that forcing Rosberg onto the grass, it would be nothing more than the Manors fault.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 14): stupid aggressive blocking by Rosberg caused the crash

Having watched it several more times, I'm inclined to agree. I'm now more surprised that Rosberg escaped any punishment whatsoever.

Historic race by Verstappen to become the youngest ever driver to win a F1 race and the first Dutch driver to do so. Superb achievement, particularly to stay so cool under the pressure from Raikkonen!

I think that this statement from the stewards sums up my view point

"Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did and that Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action."

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 14): I'm not so balanced, no way was it Hamiltons fault.

As above, I wouldnt blame either driver. My grip is how the commentators at Sky were so quick blaming Rosberg. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, but still as an commentator you should be careful before blaming another driver for an racing incident.

Sure Rosberg was tough in that situation, but Hamilton was equally hot headed trying that move. This will be a lesson for both drivers. As Rosberg has the same lead over his main competitor for the WDC it was a bigger loss for Hamilton.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): "Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did and that Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action."

If that sort of blocking maneuver is now acceptable in F1, there will be alot more dirty driving in the future. When overtaking with a similar speed difference, running the overtaking driver off the track becomes acceptable. IMHO, the stewards have bottled it or Mercedes management convinced them to let the team deal with it.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): My grip is how the commentators at Sky were so quick blaming Rosberg

The speed of thier opinion is irrelevent, many of them are ex drivers and could see immediately the speed differential. IMHO they got it bang on by blaming Rosberg. A quick decision doesn't have to be a wrong one.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): but Hamilton was equally hot headed trying that move.

So having a 17k speed differential and half a track to go past an opponent is 'hot headed'. Come on...........

[Edited 2016-05-15 12:27:59]

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): but Hamilton was equally hot headed trying that move.

Absolutely not - he had a significant speed advantage and had every right to try and pass Rosberg. The stewards said "Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable", so not sure why you consider it 'hot headed'.

As usual Lauda nails it with his verdict that it was a boneheaded stupid move by Hamilton who was annoyed that Rosberg overtook him. Rosberg was entitled to defend his line.

[Edited 2016-05-15 12:37:08]

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): Rosberg was entitled to defend his line.

indeed he was, and he did. He then continued moving across the track to the extant that the regulation 1x car width was gone.

Congrats to Verstappen though, he is a true talent and a well deserved victory.

Why is vettell a cry baby when someone tries to battle hard against him?

Fred

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 21): Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): Rosberg was entitled to defend his line. indeed he was, and he did. He then continued moving across the track to the extant that the regulation 1x car width was gone.

Because he knew he'd ****ed up with the wrong engine setting and Hamilton was about to pass him. He has a big lead, if they both go out it benefits Rosberg. One less race for Hamilton to close the gap.

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): As usual Lauda nails it with his verdict that it was a boneheaded stupid move by Hamilton who was annoyed that Rosberg overtook him

I believe Lauda will change his stance knowing all the facts

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 18): If that sort of blocking maneuver is now acceptable in F1, there will be alot more dirty driving in the future. When overtaking with a similar speed difference, running the overtaking driver off the track becomes acceptable. IMHO, the stewards have bottled it or Mercedes management convinced them to let the team deal with it.

  

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): As usual Lauda nails it with his verdict that it was a boneheaded stupid move by Hamilton who was annoyed that Rosberg overtook him.

Lauder was not in possession of all the facts when he expressed that opinion.

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): Rosberg was entitled to defend his line.

His 'defence of his line' involved a violent swerve across 3/4 the width of the track.

The red mist descended upon Hamilton & he didn't think clearly. He knows Rosberg would cover the line, why not lift off & recover or try to jink to the outside instead & take Rosberg there? Blame Nico all you want, but if Hamilton had taken a step back and cool down a bit he wouldn't have crashed.

I think the pressure of being outperformed by Rosberg is getting to him.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24):

but if Rosberg had left the required gap as stated I the rules the Hamilton would not have had to leave the circuit.

Fred

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 25):

And yet the stewards saw fit not to penalize Rosberg meaning, gap or no gap, the incident wouldn't have happened if cooler heads prevailed

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 18): IMHO, the stewards have bottled it or Mercedes management convinced them to let the team deal with it.

And I am sure that if they had blamed Hamilton for the incident you would say that somebody convinced them of that.
Look, whatever anyone on here believes, the stewards clearly think that Rosberg did nothing wrong when defending his position.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 18): IMHO they got it bang on by blaming Rosberg. A quick decision doesn't have to be a wrong one.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 22): I believe Lauda will change his stance knowing all the facts

You mean like Lauda got it bang on blaming Hamilton "before knowing all facts"??

Quoting scbriml (Reply 19): The stewards said "Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable", so not sure why you consider it 'hot headed'.

Look at the outcome. Even if it is reasonable that a driver tries to pass another car in that situation, Hamilton had much more to lose by crashing as he trails Rosberg with quite a bit in the WDC. By yet again losing track position to Rosberg in the first few corners all reason flew out of the window, and all he wanted was to pass him at any cost. It was a long race ahead of them, and Hamilton looked strong. It was short sighted and hot headed to try that risky move. I mean what did Hamilton expect, that Rosberg would leave that spot wide open for him?

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 24): I think the pressure of being outperformed by Rosberg is getting to him.

Really, at the end of the day it all comes down to this.

Looking at the video of the incident again I notice two things.

1. Hamilton only reaches as far as his front wheel to Rosbergs back wheel. It wasnt like he was besides Rosberg when Rosberg started defending his position. That is probably why the stewards didnt see anything wrong with Rosbergs defense.


2. Even before Hamilton gets up to Rosberg, Nico is already veering to the right of the track to cover up that spot. Even when Hamilton is getting up close he still tries to push through there almost expecting Rosberg to move over to the left so he can get through. He should have reacted to Rosbergs move and backed off, hence "hot headed".



As the stewards concluded, sure Hamilton had a reason to attack there, but at the same time Rosberg played within regulations when defending his position.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 28): what did Hamilton expect

to be be able to pass a car going 17kph slower through a gap that was bigger than his car.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): As the stewards concluded, sure Hamilton had a reason to attack there, but at the same time Rosberg played within regulations when defending his position

yes. A racing incident.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): . Hamilton only reaches as far as his front wheel to Rosbergs back wheel. It wasnt like he was besides Rosberg when Rosberg started defending his position. That is probably why the stewards didnt see anything wrong with Rosbergs defense.

I think Hamilton has fro t wheels and wings beyond the back of dos ergs car before the gap is closed smaller than a cars width.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 28): It was short sighted and hot headed to try that risky move

I disagree, it was hot headed of Hamilton to continue the move, certainly not to try it. It was also very hot headed of Rosber to defend it in the way he did.

Fred

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 30): to be be able to pass a car going 17kph slower through a gap that was bigger than his car.

There is - on the outside, the other side. Surely given that Hamilton has a 17kph advantage he would have gotten it done even if he had to take the longer way around.

Again I have to stress this point, the race is not won at the first three corners.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 31): Again I have to stress this point, the race is not won at the first three corners.

That's exactly where they are won.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 31): Surely given that Hamilton has a 17kph advantage he would have gotten it done even if he had to take the longer way around.

he had a temporary 17 k advantage. Hamilton was not to know if it was due to bad drive from a corner or a mech issue on Rosbergs car or what. Why would Hamilton expect not to be drive. Off the road going the other way? He did after all go on he other side of the road from the natural racing line? Do you expect Hamilton to was for a lap to see if Rosberg picked up pace again? That's of course what Rosberg would have done except that he didn't going into turn one. He basically did what Hamilton did on turn three, saw a gap and went for it, like racing drivers do and should continue to do.

Fred

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): It is heartbreaking to listen to the commentators at Skysports as they try to blame Rosberg in every possible way while defending Hamilton. What happened to staying neutral?

This. I think both drivers need to share the blame of causing this incident.

Rosberg was entitled to defend, but was there a need to defend so aggressively, given that it's only the first lap of a 66 lap race? If Rosberg had forced Hamilton to make a tighter turn, Rosberg should, in theory, have better drive out of 3.

Conversely, while Hamilton had every right to attack, he needs to understand that the throttle pedal works both ways. That gap was always going to disappear. In hindsight, it was probably better to have backed off when he saw Rosberg moving to defend, and went around the other side.

I agree with the stewards that neither driver broke any rules. Rosberg had made his one move to defend (albeit aggressively).

On a better note, congratulations to Max Verstappen. I'm very happy for him.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 12): We could use a lot more instances of brain fade from the Mercedes drivers. Sure made this race great!

Such a beautiful moment. Like VET, I've been waiting for this moment for quite a while:

http://youtu.be/lujpnC42_A8?t=16s

Mercedes should sit out a few races and make up the shortfall in cash by streaming that debrief with the drivers, engineers, Toto and Niki to Pay Per View! Oh to be a fly on that wall. 

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): It is heartbreaking to listen to the commentators at Skysports as they try to blame Rosberg in every possible way while defending Hamilton. What happened to staying neutral?

They seem to have lost all pretence of being unbiased. David Croft is usually the worst, though was much more restrained than normal this race. Not sure why. All of the Sky commentators/reporters are blatant #TeamLH fanboys (and girls). It was hilarious in Russia to hear Ted and Crofty salivating at the thought of ROS having an engine problem...just before HAM had his water pressure issue. Crofty in particular always looks like an ass when he tries to add legitimacy to the notion that Mercedes are trying to sabotage one of their cars.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7): I want to agree with Niki Lauda, Hamilton lost yet again his pole in the first few corners, and that made him see red.

Lewis has had three poles this season, but has lost all of them by the third corner. Obviously he was feeling particularly salty about this when he initiated the wildly aggressive maneuver at Turn 3.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7): He was going to try get back that position at any cost. Unfortunately a bit too shortsighted of him as they had a long race ahead of them.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7): It really has been a huge change since last season in how Hamilton is racing and behaving. As if he has lost his edge that gave him his WDC last season.

  

Quoting scbriml (Reply 13): Rosberg made a mistake and Hamilton had the chance to overtake him. Rosberg then veered to the right (away from the racing line for the upcoming right turn), forcing Hamilton onto the grass. IMHO, Rosberg lucky not to be punished

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 14): I'm not so balanced, no way was it Hamiltons fault.

ROS did what HAM has done to him plenty of times before, only this time there was grass at the edge of the track which caused HAM to spin. HAM thought he could push ROS around again, but finally it came unstuck.

ROS started defending well before HAM was alongside - the gap was closing fast and was always going to be closed by the time HAM got there. HAM's closing speed was significant and he decided to keep going anyway. Given how much faster HAM was at the time, he could probably have turned left as soon as ROS started defending...

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): As above, I wouldnt blame either driver.

Nor would I, but if it's anyone's fault, It's HAM's. He initiated the maneuver (perfectly reasonable) but kept going when it was clear that the gap was already as good as closed (not so reasonable).

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17): My grip is how the commentators at Sky were so quick blaming Rosberg.

Of course they were: HAM can do no wrong in their eyes.

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 18): The speed of thier opinion is irrelevent, many of them are ex drivers and could see immediately the speed differential.

Lauda is an ex Champion and he could see immediately that this was HAM's doing.

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20): As usual Lauda nails it with his verdict that it was a boneheaded stupid move by Hamilton who was annoyed that Rosberg overtook him. Rosberg was entitled to defend his line.

  
The crash itself distracts from ROS's excellent overtake around the outside on Turn 1.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 21): indeed he was, and he did. He then continued moving across the track to the extant that the regulation 1x car width was gone.

He had started closing the gap well before HAM's front wing was alongside.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 21): Why is Vettell a cry baby when someone tries to battle hard against him?

I loved his "ping pong" quote. Given that RIC had to go off the track at Turn 1 when he was trying to overtake VET, I don't think it was a particularly stellar move.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 25): but if Rosberg had left the required gap as stated I the rules the Hamilton would not have had to leave the circuit.

The gap was closing fast well before HAM's front wing was alongside. Also, this is the bit where I mention how HAM didn't leave a gap alongside at Suzuka when he was squeezing ROS off the track.... oh and at COTA also.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 32): That's exactly where they are won.

Except that those who watched the race will know that the race was lost on the first lap, not won. One will note that the driver in the lead at the end of lap one eventually finished fourth.  

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 25): but if Rosberg had left the required gap as stated I the rules the Hamilton would not have had to leave the circuit.

  

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 25): but if Rosberg had left the required gap as stated I the rules the Hamilton would not have had to leave the circuit.

True.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): Hamilton only reaches as far as his front wheel to Rosbergs back wheel.

Which, per the rules, requires Rosberg to leave him space.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): Even when Hamilton is getting up close he still tries to push through there almost expecting Rosberg to move over to the left so he can get through.

You mean, like it says in the regulations? It happened very quickly, it was probably his best chance to get past Rosberg. As we all know, it can be next to impossible to pass on this circuit. Ask Raikkonen.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 30): to be be able to pass a car going 17kph slower through a gap that was bigger than his car.

Exactly. Rosberg swerved across 3/4 of the track width to force Hamilton off.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 31): Surely given that Hamilton has a 17kph advantage he would have gotten it done even if he had to take the longer way around.

I think you're underestimating the speeds and time involved. Hamilton could see Rosbeg's red light flashing, he knew he was down on power. A split second decision and, as per the stewards, a reasonable one.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 33): I agree with the stewards that neither driver broke any rules.

That's not actually what the stewards said.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 34): One will note that the driver in the lead at the end of lap one eventually finished fourth.

Thanks to poor strategy decision by Red Bull.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 34): He had started closing the gap well before HAM's front wing was alongside.

At that point Hamilton had a significant speed advantage and there's still more room on the right than on the left. A fraction later he's next to Rosberg who continues to move right.


The steward's statement in full:

Quote: The incident concerned started when Car 6 dropped into an incorrect power mode, as set by the driver prior to the start. This created a significant power differential between Car 6 and Car 44 at the exit of Turn 3 coming onto the straight, resulting in as much as a 17kph speed difference between the two cars on the straight. Car 6 moved to the right to defend his position, as is his right under Art 27.7 of the Sporting regulations. Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly faster car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass. Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside. Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right. Once on the grass on the side of the track Car 44 was no longer in control of the situation. Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did and that Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action.

Does anyone believe Rosberg would have escaped punishment if it had been Ricciardo or Vettel making the pass and not his team mate?

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): Which, per the rules, requires Rosberg to leave him space.

To quote the statement from the stewards that you've posted.

Quote: Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside.

I would think that the stewards felt that a portion of a front wing doesn't really constitute a "significant portion of the car attempting to pass alongside" - which is why Rosberg got off without a penalty. If Hamilton managed to get the cockpit by the rear tires, then this rule applies. If he managed to get 2/3 of the car beside Rosberg, then this rule applies. But in this case, it doesn't.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): Does anyone believe Rosberg would have escaped punishment if it had been Ricciardo or Vettel making the pass and not his team mate?

Yes, I'd think Rosberg would have escaped punishment if it had been RIC or VET who was behind him.

We can go on and on about this, but lets face the facts: Hamilton's form this season is off & it shows. He really needs to take a step back & reassess what needs to be done if he wants to get back in the game. Otherwise, he will continue to crash into people & wrecking his own championship chances.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 34): He had started closing the gap well before HAM's front wing was alongside.

Yes but that isn't what is being debated, you can 'start' moving ages away its about position at a given time not about the movement at a given time.

Fred

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): At that point Hamilton had a significant speed advantage and there's still more room on the right than on the left.

But the gap was already closing fast; to continue the maneuver was poor judgement.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): A fraction later he's next to Rosberg who continues to move right.

ROS has the right to make the maneuver and he initiated it when HAM was a long way behind.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): Does anyone believe Rosberg would have escaped punishment if it had been Ricciardo or Vettel making the pass and not his team mate?

Yes. From the stewards decision that you yourself posted:

Quote: the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 36): Yes, I'd think Rosberg would have escaped punishment if it had been RIC or VET who was behind him.

  

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 36): We can go on and on about this, but lets face the facts: Hamilton's form this season is off & it shows. He really needs to take a step back & reassess what needs to be done if he wants to get back in the game. Otherwise, he will continue to crash into people & wrecking his own championship chances.

His hopes of winning this years championship are on life support. He is very lucky that the stewards didn't find him in the wrong as that would be his third citation; I can't remember if this results in a ten place grid penalty or a one race ban, but either way it doesn't do his championship chances much good.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 37): Yes but that isn't what is being debated, you can 'start' moving ages away its about position at a given time not about the movement at a given time.

You have to use some common sense. Both started moving right at the same time. ROS was moving at a constant rate to the right and had been doing so for a long time before HAM's wing was level with his tail. HAM must of thought that his speed delta was significant for him to get passed before the gap closed. Bad judgement to continue the maneuver.

Throttle pedals work both ways.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 38): ROS has the right to make the maneuver and he initiated it when HAM was a long way behind.

Yes, he has the right to initiate the maneuver when he likes but as was mentioned earlier, this isnt about movement, its about position so movement is irrelevant.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 38): You have to use some common sense. Both started moving right at the same time. ROS was moving at a constant rate to the right and had been doing so for a long time before HAM's wing was level with his tail. HAM must of thought that his speed delta was significant for him to get passed before the gap closed. Bad judgement to continue the maneuver.

He was in a 'position' (because thats what counts, movement is moot) where he had his front wing and front wheels beyond the back of Rosbergs car and was still on the road, therefore at that point there was enough space but Rosberg kept moving. The issue of what constitutes a significant portion of the car is what is actually at stake here, it isnt clear cut hence why I believe no punishment for either driver.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 38): But the gap was already closing fast

'Movement' and not 'position' which is the rule so your point is irrelevant.

Hamilton tried to make a pretty daring and potentially dangerous pass on Rosberg made an equally daring and potentially dangerous defensive move. Hamilton was no more or less hot headed than Rosberg, to suggest that hamilton is any more at fault than Rosberg suggests that you watched a different crash.

Fred

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 30): to be be able to pass a car going 17kph slower through a gap that was bigger than his car.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): Which, per the rules, requires Rosberg to leave him space.

Guys, take a look at the photo in reply 34. That pretty much shows it all. Look how Rosbergs car is pointed even before Hamilton is getting anywhere close. Rosberg saw what was coming and therefore pointed his car in order to close that gap.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 34): He had started closing the gap well before HAM's front wing was alongside.

  

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): You mean, like it says in the regulations?

Where does it say that a driver has to open up space for a driver to pass when you are already closing it? Again, look at the photo in reply 34.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): As we all know, it can be next to impossible to pass on this circuit. Ask Raikkonen.

I would rather want to ask Hamilton  

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 39): Hamilton was no more or less hot headed than Rosberg, to suggest that hamilton is any more at fault than Rosberg suggests that you watched a different crash.

In my opinion the one that initiates an overtake is the one that has more responsibility in making it without crashing into the driver in front.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 40): Guys, take a look at the photo in reply 34. That pretty much shows it all. Look how Rosbergs car is pointed even before Hamilton is getting anywhere close. Rosberg saw what was coming and therefore pointed his car in order to close that gap.

Still looks like a big enough gap there. Where the car is pointing is not in the rules, the position of the car is, the movement is irrelevant. If the gap is big enough you can go for it, if it isn't by the time you get there then you need to stop. The analysis from sky news shows that Hamiltons had a portion of his car between rosbergs car and the edge of the track. therefore at that point rosberg had left enough space. Later on in the videos you can see that there was less than a cars width so at some point Rosberg reduced that space. Whether the front wing and front wheels constitutes a "significant portion" is what is debateable.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 40): Where does it say that a driver has to open up space for a driver to pass when you are already closing it? Again, look at the photo in reply 34.

It doesn't, but once a car is in the space then that space cannot be reduced to less than a cars width. You are arguing something different to what happened.

Fred

[Edited 2016-05-16 04:22:02]

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 41): Still looks like a big enough gap there. Where the car is pointing is not in the rules, the position of the car is, the movement is irrelevant.

Yes, at that captured moment it looks big enough for a car to pass. However, because Hamilton was not anywhere close getting in there at that moment Rosberg is allowed to continue on his chosen track towards the right.

Even you write that:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 41): It doesn't, but once a car is in the space then that space cannot be reduced to less than a cars width.

Hamilton was never there. By the time his front wing gets into that space it is already too small for Hamilton to get in there and pass Rosberg safely.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 39): He was in a 'position' (because thats what counts, movement is moot) where he had his front wing and front wheels beyond the back of Rosbergs car and was still on the road,

As you can see, by the time Hamilton has his wheels near Rosberg's back wheel he's already heading towards the grass. The right side was already enroaching on the white line & even if Rosberg didn't move further, there's nowhere else Hamilton can go but on the green stuff.

He should have lifted or do a Mansell special & jinked to the other side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-TkbQ-7xKY

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 39): Hamilton tried to make a pretty daring and potentially dangerous pass on Rosberg made an equally daring and potentially dangerous defensive move. Hamilton was no more or less hot headed than Rosberg, to suggest that hamilton is any more at fault than Rosberg suggests that you watched a different crash.

  

Quoting B747forever (Reply 40): In my opinion the one that initiates an overtake is the one that has more responsibility in making it without crashing into the driver in front.

  

One other thing to consider about this incident is this.......
Nico had absolutely nothing to lose by slamming the door shut on Hamilton. With both out, the status-quo stays put on the WDC points and Hamilton loses a chance to close the gap.

If Nico's move gives Hamilton 1/10th of 1% doubt in his mind the next time Hamilton's behind and needs to pass, then that will also affect Hamilton's mind game. Whatever you think of Rosberg's move, by ruthlessly closing the door he's clearly shown Hamilton that he will not give way at any cost. That will have to play on Hamilton's mind thru the rest of the season.
Of course, we also know that Hamilton will return the favour as well.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 21): Why is vettell a cry baby when someone tries to battle hard against him?

Well Ricciardo almost took him out so I understand his position.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 26): Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 25): And yet the stewards saw fit not to penalize Rosberg meaning, gap or no gap, the incident wouldn't have happened if cooler heads prevailed

Quoting B747forever (Reply 28): Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 18): IMHO, the stewards have bottled it or Mercedes management convinced them to let the team deal with it. And I am sure that if they had blamed Hamilton for the incident you would say that somebody convinced them of that. Look, whatever anyone on here believes, the stewards clearly think that Rosberg did nothing wrong when defending his position.

I am of the opinion that Hamilton can be a whiney brat at times, needs a bit more class. This opinion does not interfere with my opinion that Rosberg in this case was in the wrong.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): 1. Hamilton only reaches as far as his front wheel to Rosbergs back wheel. It wasnt like he was besides Rosberg when Rosberg started defending his position. That is probably why the stewards didnt see anything wrong with Rosbergs defense.

IIRC, when a significant portion of the overtaking car is beside the car in front, it has to be given a cars width to complete the move safely. Front wheel level with back wheel is deemed a significant portion. The picture in post 43 shows this. Rosberg did not leave Hamilton enough room, and this is why I think the stewards bottled it or Mercedes convinced them to leave it to them.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): 2. Even before Hamilton gets up to Rosberg, Nico is already veering to the right of the track to cover up that spot. Even when Hamilton is getting up close he still tries to push through there almost expecting Rosberg to move over to the left so he can get through. He should have reacted to Rosbergs move and backed off, hence "hot headed".

See regulations on leaving a cars width.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 29): As the stewards concluded, sure Hamilton had a reason to attack there, but at the same time Rosberg played within regulations when defending his position.

I can't understand why the cars width regulation did not apply here, hence they bottled it.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 31): Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 30): to be be able to pass a car going 17kph slower through a gap that was bigger than his car. There is - on the outside, the other side. Surely given that Hamilton has a 17kph advantage he would have gotten it done even if he had to take the longer way around. Again I have to stress this point, the race is not won at the first three corners.

Again I stress the point, a cars width must be left.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 33): Conversely, while Hamilton had every right to attack, he needs to understand that the throttle pedal works both ways. That gap was always going to disappear. In hindsight, it was probably better to have backed off when he saw Rosberg moving to defend, and went around the other side.

Why should he back off when he is expecting a cars width with which to race.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 33): I agree with the stewards that neither driver broke any rules. Rosberg had made his one move to defend (albeit aggressively).

See the cars width regulation.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 34): ROS started defending well before HAM was alongside - the gap was closing fast and was always going to be closed by the time HAM got there. HAM's closing speed was significant and he decided to keep going anyway. Given how much faster HAM was at the time, he could probably have turned left as soon as ROS started defending...

Why go around that way when you expect a cars width.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 36): I would think that the stewards felt that a portion of a front wing doesn't really constitute a "significant portion of the car attempting to pass alongside" -

Look at the picture in reply 43, front wheel next to rear wheel is deemed a significant protion.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 36): But in this case, it doesn't.

In this case you'ld be wrong. Can you imagine how hideous the crash would have been if Hamilton had held his ground on the track(using his cars width he can expect to be left)? Rosberg would have been spun and gone head first into the wall and then all sorts of other carnage would have followed from the following pack. To not punish Rosberg for that stupidity and for Hamilton to still be being blamed is nigh on ridiculous.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 38): Quoting scbriml (Reply 35): A fraction later he's next to Rosberg who continues to move right. ROS has the right to make the maneuver and he initiated it when HAM was a long way behind.

Hamilton has the right to a cars width.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 38): HAM must of thought that his speed delta was significant for him to get passed before the gap closed. Bad judgement to continue the maneuver.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 40): Where does it say that a driver has to open up space for a driver to pass when you are already closing it?

If the car overtaking has a a significant portion of the car beside you, you are not supposed to drive him off the road, which is what Rosberg did.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 41): Whether the front wing and front wheels constitutes a "significant portion" is what is debateable.

It dose.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 42): Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 41): It doesn't, but once a car is in the space then that space cannot be reduced to less than a cars width. Hamilton was never there. By the time his front wing gets into that space it is already too small for Hamilton to get in there and pass Rosberg safely.

Look at the picture in reply 43, Hamiltons front wheel is clearly beside Rosbergs back wheel and Hamiltons righthand wheel is still on the track. When Rosbergs continues to move across at that point he is driving Hamilton off the track.

Rosberg was too aggressive IMO. I don't really see what Hamilton is supposed to have done wrong- if you see a gap and you're going far quicker than the car in front, you have to go for it.

I figured Rosberg might have been distracted, but in the post-race he said he "knew exactly what was going on" which implies he knew where Hamilton's car was and didn't leave him the car's width he's entitled to.

Having said that, I'm glad Rosberg didn't get a penalty. I think unless the offence is horrendous, first lap incidents should really just be let go. There's far too much interference as it is.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 7): Less than a minute after the crash they all concluded that Hamilton had his wing in there so Rosberg should have given him room. I guess there is no point to investigate this after the race, apparently we already have an answer.

They're paid to have an opinion, not to say "I think we'll just wait until after the race before we pass judgment". That's what commentators are for. It's called entertainment.

A touch call however I can see the point of view that it was a driving incident but I do feel Rosberg has to shoulder the majority of the blame. Hamilton saw the gap, and went for it. Given the speed differential he had, once he had aimed at the gap as he was entitled to do, he had to be fully committed and he had no time to slow down or readjust to the other side of the track. What did he do wrong? He saw a gap which was open at the time of point his car at it.

The Sky replays show Rosberg adjusting a dial on the steering wheel exiting Turn 3. Upon exiting turn 3, whilst still looking at his steering wheel and pressing a button, he appears to cross to the right hand side of the track without looking in his right hand mirror, which, combined with the fact that Rosberg likely knew he had a speed disadvantage, is enough for me to lean the blame towards Rosberg.

The replays suggest to me that Rosberg cut to the right hand side of the track after turn 3 without checking his mirror until it was too late and Hamilton was already in the gap which Rosberg was closing off.

Rosbergs demeanour afterwards was also noteworthy. Whenever asked who he apportioned blame to, he was only too happy to continuously repeat that he agreed with the stewards ruling.

A link to Ant Davidson Sky F1 analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAJXvJMYglc

Quoting Ncfc99 (Reply 46): Look at the picture in reply 43, front wheel next to rear wheel is deemed a significant protion

Under whose definition?

In any case, based on the picture in reply 43 it's clear that Hamilton's right front tyre has touched the white line demarcating the track boundary. Even if Rosberg chose to straighten up, there's no way he can complete the overtake without two tyres off the track on the grass.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 47): They're paid to have an opinion, not to say "I think we'll just wait until after the race before we pass judgment". That's what commentators are for. It's called entertainment.

Nothing wrong with commentating, but at least maintain some semblance of neutrality. Their pro-Hamilton stance is a bit blergh.

[Edited 2016-05-16 18:16:13]