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Asturias
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sun May 29, 2016 12:46 pm

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 49):
But for me, the big issues are the huge amount of waste the EU generates,

That's adorable  
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zckls04
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Tue May 31, 2016 10:21 pm

Normally I think Richard Dawkins is an insufferable oaf, but I do like his opinion on all this:

"It is an outrage that people as ignorant as me are being asked to vote."
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pvjin
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Tue May 31, 2016 10:42 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 51):

Normally I think Richard Dawkins is an insufferable oaf, but I do like his opinion on all this:

"It is an outrage that people as ignorant as me are being asked to vote."

Yep, democracy sucks, only the political and economic elite is informed enough to make decisions.

Thankfully the EU is on it's way to abandon democracy and freedom of speech completely, then we can have a proper aristocracy. The 1% knows what the 99% needs the best.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ju...s-to-block-the-far-right-nq5r5tnqq

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/eu-gives-facebook-twitter-youtube-8089780

Though to be honest in the end none of this matter. Brexit or not, Western Europe as we know it will fall within next century.

[Edited 2016-05-31 15:44:39]
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zckls04
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Tue May 31, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 52):
Yep, democracy sucks, only the political and economic elite is informed enough to make decisions.

Or more accurately, I pay other people to make those decisions so that I can get on with whatever it is I do.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 52):
Though to be honest in the end none of this matter. Brexit or not, Western Europe as we know it will fall within next century.

I just don't see that happening. To fall, there must be somebody to fall to, and there really aren't any likely candidates.
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Dreadnought
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:53 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 53):
Or more accurately, I pay other people to make those decisions so that I can get on with whatever it is I do.

So you are happy being the sheep?

I just watched Brixit: The Movie. Everyone (including Americans who think "this can't happen here") should watch it.

Brixit: The Movie
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vc10
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:17 pm

offloaded A very good and informative posting, we need more of this in the UK at this

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 54):
I just watched Brixit: The Movie. Everyone (including Americans who think "this can't happen here") should watch it.

Thanks for suggesting this, as it was what many people have been looking for and that is facts. Perhaps the Remain side should produce a fact film like this so people have something to base their vote on.

I would have liked a page at the end with all the facts listed , as now I will have to watch it all again to list the facts, still more interesting than TV

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Asturias
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:48 am

Now I'm getting concerned. All this passion for exiting the EU from so many Brits, making films, crowdfunding, creating a movement and yet you are losing according to polls.

What the heck is going on? The remain side doesn't seem half as passionate as you Brexiters, so why are you losing and apparently rather decisively. Not by a huge margin, but by a consistent 3-4% margin. It's like you can't break that wall.

Time is running out, come on guys, you can do it!!
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TheSonntag
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:59 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 49):
The EU isn't perfect, and things need to change, but while the pigs are getting fat feeding from the trough, it won't.

I agree that changes are needed in the EU. However, totally dismissing it is certainly the wrong way.

Or like a wise man from the UK might say: EU is the worst form of european cooperation, except of all the others.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:05 am

MP's threaten coup d'etat over EU if the public vote to leave...

Quote:

Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned.

The MPs fear a post-Brexit government might negotiate a limited free trade deal with the EU, which they say would damage the UK's economy.

There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147.

A Vote Leave campaign spokesman said MPs will not be able to "defy the will of the electorate" on key issues.

The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

There we have it - the "Remain" group is willing to essentially ignore the outcome to any meaningful length in order to gut the result of its effect. And how do they justify it?

Quote:

They say it would be legitimate for MPs to push for the UK to stay in the single market because the Leave campaign has refused to spell out what trading relationship it wants the UK to have with the EU in the future.

As such, a post-Brexit government could not claim it had a popular mandate for a particular model.

They justify it by saying "you never answered the question that wasn't being voted on". If the result is an "exit" one, then that should trigger public consultations on what happens next, not "sod it, we are doing our own thing based on contorted justifications".
 
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zckls04
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:28 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 54):
So you are happy being the sheep?

Am I a sheep because I pay a mechanic to fix my car? No- I just don't have time, or the inclination, to learn how. Nor do I have time to settle the divisions in the Tory party because their leader is too weak to force party unity. Whether Gideon or de Pfeffel becomes the next PM is of no consequence to me.

If I'm forced to vote, I shall of course vote, but in the end I think referendums of this nature are a bad idea, appealing as they do only to arrogant simpletons who think ten minutes browsing the internet makes you qualified on any subject in the world.

Referendums should be used much more often for local issues on which the population might conceivably be able to have an informed opinion, and much less on national issues that 95% of people know nothing about.
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Redd
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:19 pm

What no-one seems to be speaking about is that there are thousands of small EU companies which are registered and pay taxes in the UK, but have no operations set up there.

Many Polish company owners do this to avoid the headache of running a business under ridiculous Polish laws. It's beneficial to the business owners and to the UK. If Brexit happens I wonder how this will impact those companies.

[Edited 2016-06-08 07:25:04]
 
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moo
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:48 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 60):
What no-one seems to be speaking about is that there are thousands of small EU companies which are registered and pay taxes in the UK, but have no operations set up there.

In the grand scheme of things, they don't mean much to HMRC - the bigger fish are the ones who use EU law to set up shop elsewhere and funnel massive profits offshore (looking at you, Google). That solution will be positively affected by leaving the EU.
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:47 am

I'll have to agree with Francis Pryor, who no doubt has a better handle on European and especially Anglo history than any politician, or ordinary citizen.

So without adding any specific opinions of my own....

http://pryorfrancis.wordpress.com/20.../britain-and-europe-the-long-view/
 
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RE: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:57 am

Quoting moo (Reply 61):
In the grand scheme of things, they don't mean much to HMRC - the bigger fish are the ones who use EU law to set up shop elsewhere and funnel massive profits offshore (looking at you, Google).

That has little to do with EU laws. And honestly I have my reservations that the UK on his own will succeed on taxing where the EU as a whole has failed.

Especially when the UK (and a few of its crown dependencies) often are the actual tax havens.
 
 
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:28 am

So according to the latest polls what will the outcome of the referendum be ?
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:35 pm

If I am not mistaken, no matter how the referendum vote goes, BREXIT would still have to be approved by Parliament. Is this not correct? If so, given that the majority of MPs are in favor of remain would they then go on and vote to leave the EU? I could envision a situation where, given a close result, the MPs would refuse to proceed.
 
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:53 pm

If it's a close result it will be a mess for sure.

I've seen a French commentator explain that the UK has 2 years to negotiate an exit, but that's 2 years from a formal act of declaring it wants to exit, not 2 years from the referendum. So MPs/the government could delay things indefinitely.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:51 pm

victrola wrote:
If I am not mistaken, no matter how the referendum vote goes, BREXIT would still have to be approved by Parliament. Is this not correct? If so, given that the majority of MPs are in favor of remain would they then go on and vote to leave the EU? I could envision a situation where, given a close result, the MPs would refuse to proceed.


Then I believe there would be protests on the street - similar to the poll tax riots back in 1990, where an estimated 180,000 - 250,000 people went out on the streets to protest. The riot in central London was one of the factors in the downfall of the Thatcher government, as she resigned later in the year.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:38 pm

victrola wrote:
If I am not mistaken, no matter how the referendum vote goes, BREXIT would still have to be approved by Parliament. Is this not correct? If so, given that the majority of MPs are in favor of remain would they then go on and vote to leave the EU? I could envision a situation where, given a close result, the MPs would refuse to proceed.


It's doubtful that Parliament would directly oppose a "leave' result. A more likely scenario would be a 'No Confidence' motion, which could be used to trigger a General Election. If the election was then won by a party that was committed to remaining in the EU, that could be used as a justification for putting aside the referendum result.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:19 pm

It's doubtful that Parliament would directly oppose a "leave' result. A more likely scenario would be a 'No Confidence' motion, which could be used to trigger a General Election. If the election was then won by a party that was committed to remaining in the EU, that could be used as a justification for putting aside the referendum result.[/quote]

This would be very interesting as the Conservatives seem split on the issue and the Liberals, Labor, and Scottish Nationalists are pro Europe if I understand it correctly. This leaves only the UK Independence party as oficially in favor of Brexit. I see years of chaos ahead.

Every country in the EU has its beefs with Brussels. What if everyone were to leave? You would then have a Europe of 28 different countries, border controls every 100 km or so in many cases, 28 different sets of product standards, labor and banking laws. It would be impossible for companies to achieve any economies of scale and the cost of living would soar. The ammount of bureaucracy would also increase. Your average European would be poorer.

People forget what Europe was like before the single market. Maybe they should talk to some people who lived through the 1910's, 20's, 30's, and 40's which I guess were the good old days before the tyranny of the EU.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:50 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
victrola wrote:
If I am not mistaken, no matter how the referendum vote goes, BREXIT would still have to be approved by Parliament. Is this not correct? If so, given that the majority of MPs are in favor of remain would they then go on and vote to leave the EU? I could envision a situation where, given a close result, the MPs would refuse to proceed.


Then I believe there would be protests on the street - similar to the poll tax riots back in 1990, where an estimated 180,000 - 250,000 people went out on the streets to protest. The riot in central London was one of the factors in the downfall of the Thatcher government, as she resigned later in the year.


So an average weekly French protest then :D
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:02 am

Aesma wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
victrola wrote:
If I am not mistaken, no matter how the referendum vote goes, BREXIT would still have to be approved by Parliament. Is this not correct? If so, given that the majority of MPs are in favor of remain would they then go on and vote to leave the EU? I could envision a situation where, given a close result, the MPs would refuse to proceed.


Then I believe there would be protests on the street - similar to the poll tax riots back in 1990, where an estimated 180,000 - 250,000 people went out on the streets to protest. The riot in central London was one of the factors in the downfall of the Thatcher government, as she resigned later in the year.


So an average weekly French protest then :D


Well I wasn't going to mention that... But yeah! :lol:
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:45 pm

If this doesn't make people vote to remain, then nothing will.


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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:02 pm

I really hope that Brexit passes. It would be one big glimmer of hope against the Administrative State that has has become dominant in the EU and in the US.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:08 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
I really hope that Brexit passes.


Your hope has as much chance as your hope for a Republican president. ;)
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:34 pm

It's difficult for me to choose whether I wish Brexit to happen or not. I mean, I find authoritarian dictatorships interesting, and that's what the EU is becoming. If the British vote to remain it would send the EU a clear signal that they can continue becoming more and more authoritarian without any real opposition from the sheep they call EU citizen.

Of course in the end none of this matters as Europe is pretty much doomed anyway thanks to the economic elite that always gets their way. The rich will always rule the poor in the global capitalist system, only a real revolution could bring democracy.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:46 pm

scbriml wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
I really hope that Brexit passes.


Your hope has as much chance as your hope for a Republican president. ;)


Maybe Donald could engage Nigel as campaign manager... :o

Regarding the dirty campaign and scaremongering.. a friend of mine in Athens said "I thought this sort of thing only happened in Greece". Shows that the gutter press and dishonest politicians exist everywhere.
 
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:36 pm

pvjin wrote:
Of course in the end none of this matters as Europe is pretty much doomed anyway thanks to the economic elite that always gets their way. The rich will always rule the poor in the global capitalist system, only a real revolution could bring democracy.


That's why Brexit is so important - it (might) encourage reform or the possibility of independence for member states who realize "This isn't what we signed up for."

As for corporatism and the elite, this is a great irony - which I am sure will fly right over the heads of our more liberal members. Big government, heavy regulatory environments, and powerful government are NOT a problem for big business/corporations. They have the resources to monitor and comply with the regulations (in fact most now have very large "Compliance Departments" who are tasked with just that - a department unheard of a generation or two ago).

In fact, big business LOVES big government, heavy regulatory environments, and powerful government because they are significant competitive barriers to small and medium sized businesses, who don't have the resources to monitor and comply with all the regulations or buy favors from politicians and regulators. Look at all the small/medium sized banks that were forced to close down and sell out after Dodd-Frank was passed - they became too small to compete and the big banks bought them all out - which I think was part of the intended result. A friend of mine who runs a Vape store is shutting down his business in September when new FDA regulations come into effect, designed to push all small operators like him out of the market and making sure that all the profits go to big companies.

So all the student protesters and others who demand heavy regulation and statism to combat big business and capitalism - you are being duped. Big business will do just fine in such environments. Heavy regulation and statism is designed to make it much harder for the common man start his own business, whether it is a restaurant, plumbing store, or a high tech business. Historically such new businesses are the driver of an expanding middle class, and I am stunned that people do not see the correlation between the expanding Administrative State (i.e. heavy regulation and statism by bureaucratic agencies) and the stalling/squeezing of the middle class.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:19 pm

EU democracy in action

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Re: The Over-Leveraged European Central Bank

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:54 pm

On the Fox Business Channel, they mentioned how over-leveraged the ECB is, and with Britain pulling out their "part", even on "paper," how this will cause pressures down the road for the ECB and it's EU member states, and their citizen tax-payers... (The ECB= European Central Bank, the controller of the "Euro" currency...of the EU).
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AAPilot
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:17 pm

scbriml wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
I really hope that Brexit passes.


Your hope has as much chance as your hope for a Republican president. ;)



Sooo that means it's going to happen then?
 
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:33 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Of course in the end none of this matters as Europe is pretty much doomed anyway thanks to the economic elite that always gets their way. The rich will always rule the poor in the global capitalist system, only a real revolution could bring democracy.


That's why Brexit is so important - it (might) encourage reform or the possibility of independence for member states who realize "This isn't what we signed up for."

As for corporatism and the elite, this is a great irony - which I am sure will fly right over the heads of our more liberal members. Big government, heavy regulatory environments, and powerful government are NOT a problem for big business/corporations. They have the resources to monitor and comply with the regulations (in fact most now have very large "Compliance Departments" who are tasked with just that - a department unheard of a generation or two ago).

In fact, big business LOVES big government, heavy regulatory environments, and powerful government because they are significant competitive barriers to small and medium sized businesses, who don't have the resources to monitor and comply with all the regulations or buy favors from politicians and regulators.

This is exactly right. Big Regulation means Big Business. Small players can't afford to comply. It even happens in housing. If you don't have a compliance DEPARTMENT in some cities it is nearly impossible to build anything in a timely manner. And it has nothing to do with not wanting to build a safe or efficient home/building. It has to do with the regulatory hoops, paperwork, meetings, time to do the same exact thing you would have done anyway if you were just allowed to submit your plans and have them reviewed once.

The rules are written with the help of the big businesses. That way they know what they are required to do, and what will make it harder for the "little guy" to compete or even exist.

Do you think that Boeing laments the arduous regulatory process of certifying and aircraft? Hardly. It keeps all other players out of the market. Do you think automakers truly lament the regulations "imposed" on them? No way, it keeps bit players at bay. The regulations don't require less testing and certification for niche players than the do for big players, so the economy of scale greatly favors the largest companies the more regulations are imposed.
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Aesma
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:44 pm

Cars and planes still experience safety problems after certification so you will not convince many people that less regulation is needed.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:30 pm

ikramerica wrote:
The regulations don't require less testing and certification for niche players than the do for big players, so the economy of scale greatly favors the largest companies the more regulations are imposed.

So which regulations, requirements do you want removed from building house and aircraft? Many are connected with safety issues. There are very much some connected to bureaucratic things and some should be a streamlined/removed but again, many are there for a very important purpose to protect private individuals (like noise of jets or building that apartment next to your single family home etc.).

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Aesma
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:39 pm

I was astounded to learn that in the US building regulations are so local that even a small business has to deal with various regulations from one town to the next. That could clearly be improved.
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Dreadnought
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:41 pm

AAPilot wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
I really hope that Brexit passes.


Your hope has as much chance as your hope for a Republican president. ;)



Sooo that means it's going to happen then?


LOL :D :D :D
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Dreadnought
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
Cars and planes still experience safety problems after certification so you will not convince many people that less regulation is needed.


Nobody wants "no regulation". But they need to be a) Necessary, b) Concise, and c) Understandable by anyone who might be interested in going into that particular business. Specifically: let's say someone wants to build himself, from scratch, a road legal car. He should be able to look up the regs, sit down and read them all over the weekend and understand what he needs to do.

There are many industries where the regulations are so convoluted and voluminous, that even lawyers specializing in that industry can only guess at whether something is allowed or not. I have experienced that myself many times. That is not how government is supposed to work.
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jpetekyxmd80
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:13 am

Dreadnought wrote:
I really hope that Brexit passes. It would be one big glimmer of hope against the Administrative State that has has become dominant in the EU and in the US.


Oh my god. Please do not tell us with a straight face you think this will lead to less bureaucracy. I cannot think of bigger bureaucratic wet dream. Have you even thought for a second about the impacts of all this?
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Revelation
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:59 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Nobody wants "no regulation". But they need to be a) Necessary, b) Concise, and c) Understandable by anyone who might be interested in going into that particular business. Specifically: let's say someone wants to build himself, from scratch, a road legal car. He should be able to look up the regs, sit down and read them all over the weekend and understand what he needs to do.


It's a laudable goal, but very hard to achieve.

Have you ever tried to write laws/regulations?

Even if you can conjure a "fair" set of laws in your head, can you manage to express that in the written form? Will it be "fair" even when a room full of laywers and tech nerds with massive financial and career motiviations parse each word and phrase in a way that works to their advantage?

Would your law "scale", meaning provide a correct interpretation for a hobbiest or small business as well as a huge corporation?

If you were the IRS, could you write a set of laws that would be "fair" for an individual writing their taxes on a weekend as well as a corporation that had buildings full of accountants working their very best to find a loophole because it could pay their salary many times over?

In short, it ain't easy to write laws, yet we need them for society to function.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:42 pm

Revelation wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
Nobody wants "no regulation". But they need to be a) Necessary, b) Concise, and c) Understandable by anyone who might be interested in going into that particular business. Specifically: let's say someone wants to build himself, from scratch, a road legal car. He should be able to look up the regs, sit down and read them all over the weekend and understand what he needs to do.


It's a laudable goal, but very hard to achieve.

Have you ever tried to write laws/regulations?

Even if you can conjure a "fair" set of laws in your head, can you manage to express that in the written form? Will it be "fair" even when a room full of laywers and tech nerds with massive financial and career motiviations parse each word and phrase in a way that works to their advantage?

Would your law "scale", meaning provide a correct interpretation for a hobbiest or small business as well as a huge corporation?

If you were the IRS, could you write a set of laws that would be "fair" for an individual writing their taxes on a weekend as well as a corporation that had buildings full of accountants working their very best to find a loophole because it could pay their salary many times over?

In short, it ain't easy to write laws, yet we need them for society to function.


You are right, it's not easy. That is why simple is always better - the more complicated you make it the more loopholes your create.

I would also demand a Constitutional Amendment that would require that every single regulation be given an automatic 1 year sunset, unless approved by Congress. And I don't mean congress approving a 10,000 page book - I mean each and every provision (about a paragraph) be presented to Congress as a 2-page bill. Page 1 contains the text and why it is necessary. Page 2 would contain opposing views and info on where to go if the reader needs more info. Up or down vote, no conference committee, no editing.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:31 pm

Dreadnought wrote:

I would also demand a Constitutional Amendment that would require that every single regulation be given an automatic 1 year sunset, unless approved by Congress. And I don't mean congress approving a 10,000 page book - I mean each and every provision (about a paragraph) be presented to Congress as a 2-page bill. Page 1 contains the text and why it is necessary. Page 2 would contain opposing views and info on where to go if the reader needs more info. Up or down vote, no conference committee, no editing.


Probably the worst idea i've ever heard full of breathtaking naivete.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:43 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:

I would also demand a Constitutional Amendment that would require that every single regulation be given an automatic 1 year sunset, unless approved by Congress. And I don't mean congress approving a 10,000 page book - I mean each and every provision (about a paragraph) be presented to Congress as a 2-page bill. Page 1 contains the text and why it is necessary. Page 2 would contain opposing views and info on where to go if the reader needs more info. Up or down vote, no conference committee, no editing.


Probably the worst idea i've ever heard full of breathtaking naivete.


JPete, how about you stop posting until you actually have something to say other than pure criticism devoid of any additional information? I think this is post #3 in the last two days from you that's not contributing to anything other than a nasty atmosphere.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:46 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

Probably the worst idea i've ever heard full of breathtaking naivete.


Explain. Something along the lines of "Regulations are written by smarter people than us and we should just blindly accept their superiority"?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:25 pm

How could that possibly be a good idea? obvious despite a few areas of expertise, how could a politician be expected to have the requisite knowledge on EVERYTHING to make all those decisions? They dont and they wouldn't, so they'd merely listen to the leadership and you literally make everything under the sun a constant partisan political issue and laws constantly switching back and forth and nobody with any clue what is going on. What a complete mess that would be.
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Re: EU Citizens Fear Brexit More Than People In UK Pt2

Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:19 pm

The EU:

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