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DIRECTFLT
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Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 3:14 pm

150 experts say Olympics must be moved or postponed because of Zika

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/05/27/125-experts-say-olympics-must-be-moved-or-postponed-because-of-zika/

"More than 100 prominent physicians, bioethicists and scientists from around the world posted a letter Friday urging World Health Organization Director-General Margaret Chan to exert pressure on Olympic authorities to move the Olympics from Rio de Janeiro or delay the Games because of public health concerns over the Zika virus."

------------------------------------

Brazil has been producing promotional videos basically saying about the Zika virus "Nothing to see here --- Move along please..."

So who is right??

Both side are looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions.

Sort of like the Climate Change debate...
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LMP737
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 3:40 pm

Never mind the fact that the waters around the Olympic venues where the water competitions are going to be held are heavily contaminated with raw sewage.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 3:58 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Thread starter):
Both side are looking at the same evidence and coming to different conclusions.

I think Brazil is slightly biased and may not be guided solely by the best scientific evidence available.

The WHO did its own investigation and concluded that postponing or cancelling the Games would not have significant consequences on the spread of the virus one way or the other but the 150 experts who sign the letter say the WHO's study is outdated and doesn't take into account the freshest, accelerating trends.

What is really important though, if the Games are moved or cancelled, does Brazil gets its bribes back?
 
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pvjin
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 4:11 pm

Olympics should be held as planned, even if Zika spreads all around the world it's not such a big deal compared to problems that actually threaten our very existence, such as overpopulation.
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winterlight
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 5:23 pm

You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 4):

You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.


And what was the point with making ebola?
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pvjin
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 5:59 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 4):
You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.

If Ebola was man made they did really bad job. I wish them better luck next time. Something that would cause a mortality rate similar to that of black death in Europe would be a decent job already.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):
And what was the point with making ebola?

The global elite's attempt at world depopulation.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):

And what was the point with making ebola?

Even less sensible: zika.

Zika doesn't kill. In fact, it's a fairly mild disease for most people. You have a fever and some joint pain for a few days. Most people don't even have symptoms at all.

But if you're a fetus in your first trimester, it makes you microcephalic. That means that for your life you will have profound mental retardation. You may never walk. You will certainly never talk. You will not go to school (in any meaningful sense) or get a job. You will require lots of medical care and lots of social support. You will need to be housed, clothed, and fed by those caring for you.

I can't imagine what interest of what powerful elite --no matter how depraved-- this would serve.

Ebola as a conspiracy at least kind of makes sense: a powerful elite makes the virus to rapidly depopulate the world while hoarding a cure/vaccine for themselves.

Now, as a physician with a graduate degree in molecular biology who did molecular virology research, I can tell you that humanity is nowhere NEAR being able to design a virus from scratch. We can certainly toy around with some of the virii that already exist, but Ebolaviridae have been known since 1976 and back then we didn't have any molecular technology to perform the sorts of intricate molecular genetic tinkering that would be required to weaponize the virus. Hell, we barely had sequencing back then and certainly not the ability to sequence an RNA virus. That kind of feat requires rtPCR and PCR itself wasn't developed until 1983, let alone rtPCR.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 7):

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):
And what was the point with making ebola?

The global elite's attempt at world depopulation.


Well that didnt go well. If they really had planned it they would have done a much better job.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 8:49 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 4):
You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.

I'm gonna ask you something that will help me understand this statement better.

Choose one:

1. A supreme being (call it what you will) created everything you see before you. Dinosaurs never existed and life has only been around for a few millennia.

2. By stroke of luck, the planet was created and situated in a Goldilocks zone, allowing life to grow from unicelular to multicelular and providing all the necessary elements to sustain it.
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Aesma
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 10:00 pm

Don't worry about him, he believes everything is a conspiracy.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Rara
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 10:02 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Now, as a physician with a graduate degree in molecular biology who did molecular virology research, I can tell you that humanity is nowhere NEAR being able to design a virus from scratch.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
If they really had planned it they would have done a much better job.

Hmmm.   Some conflicting opinions there, yet arriving at the same conclusion.  

Seriously though, what's up with the conspiracy theories recently? Some years ago they were just a laughable peculiarity from some oddballs, nowadays I hear them all the time (and from reasonably intelligent people as well).
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 10:09 pm

Too much time spent in the wrong parts of the web.
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pvjin
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat May 28, 2016 10:29 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
Seriously though, what's up with the conspiracy theories recently? Some years ago they were just a laughable peculiarity from some oddballs, nowadays I hear them all the time (and from reasonably intelligent people as well).

If you ask me lately in western world things like fact and rationality have become less important in general, while there's more emphasis on irrational and subjective feelings and opinions. Perhaps this explains why even reasonably intelligent people fall for it.

As for your average conspiracy theorist, due to the internet, video games and feminism you have a lot more mentally disturbed young men (and an occasional woman) in western world than ever before, and thanks to social welfare they don't even have to work for a living. When their life is so boring and sucks they invent alternate realities where they are enlightened people of importance with secret information, better than sheep like you and me. The rise of social media further encourages these delusional young men, as now it's easier than ever before to find other men with similar interests.

[Edited 2016-05-28 15:30:06]
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 12:22 am

The most at risk by the Zika virus are children of women of childbearing age during pregnancy. What might be prudent would be for such women to take precautions to reduce the risk of contact with a carrier insect and to not get pregnant until after the Olympics and if a test is available to see if one is infectious with virus, to take it and get a negative result before contemplating becoming pregnant.
The Olympics will not be moved due to a variety of logistical, investment and political reasons. I do expect that some events involving the highly polluted waters to be cancelled or moved to another location.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 1:52 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
eriously though, what's up with the conspiracy theories recently? Some years ago they were just a laughable peculiarity from some oddballs, nowadays I hear them all the time (and from reasonably intelligent people as well).

In my opinion, part of the reason is the Internet age has allowed access to seeing things that no one had really seen before, except in movies. So when they see what a real explosion, or building collapse or a real human getting shot looks like, it doesn't look like their preconceived idea of what those things look like and therefore must be fake/staged. Eventually they start convincing themselves that all information out there is part of some greater story.

[Edited 2016-05-28 18:53:28]
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 2:45 am

I think the bigger reason to consider moving the Olympics is the internal turmoil going on in Brazilian politics, and even then, they seem isolated to the main event.
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ER757
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 4:10 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 1):
Never mind the fact that the waters around the Olympic venues where the water competitions are going to be held are heavily contaminated with raw sewage.
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 17):
I think the bigger reason to consider moving the Olympics is the internal turmoil going on in Brazilian politics,

These are far more valid reasons to consider moving the Olympics than the Zika threat. I don't think there's a chance in hell they'll be moved or postponed though.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
As for your average conspiracy theorist, due to the internet,

Yes, the near universal access to the internet and the vast number of just about every imaginable type of website certainly has contributed to the rise of conspiracy theorists. And when people spend most of their day reading though this stuff, they do get sucked in. I have a niece who is unemployed and spends a good chunk of her day surfing some of these sites and the stuff she spouts is just so crackpot it's hard for me to have a conversation with her
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 5:46 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):

Hmmm.   Some conflicting opinions there, yet arriving at the same conclusion.  

Not conflicting at all. Complimentary. Humanity lacks the knowledge and the act does not serve the purported purpose (or any other rational purpose, even a depraved rational purpose) even if we had the knowledge.
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 5:54 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):

Choose one:

1. A supreme being (call it what you will) created everything you see before you. Dinosaurs never existed and life has only been around for a few millennia.

I'll take Dinosaurs in the Bible for $200:

http://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/dinosaurs-and-the-bible/

[Edited 2016-05-28 22:55:21]
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 8:27 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 4):
You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.

Yes, in 1976, Elvis did it hence him disappearing a year later.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 8:53 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
due to the internet, video games and feminism

Ah yes, men not being allowed to degrade women is the reason behind all of this.... As is PACman.
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Redd
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 9:36 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
feminism you have a lot more mentally disturbed young men

What do the rights of women have to do with young men being 'mentally disturbed?'
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 9:46 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 4):
You have to wonder if Zika was originally man made just like Ebola.

You tinfoil hat seems to be a little tight.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 6:17 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
Ah yes, men not being allowed to degrade women is the reason behind all of this.... As is PACman.
Quoting Redd (Reply 23):
What do the rights of women have to do with young men being 'mentally disturbed?'

To put it simply, thanks to feminism in western world there are a lot more young men who can't find a relationship even though they wanted to, and that leads to all kinds of side effects, such as men developing more mental illnesses than before, and most importantly lonely men spending way too much time on the internet. Combination of these two factors can be seen as a driving force behind a lot of conspiracy nonsense nowadays.This also explains why very few western conspiracy theorists are females as for them finding an enjoyable relationship whenever they want is not an issue, thus they are less likely to become marginalized losers.

Ultimately there's no equality to be seen, those who used to be privileged are now underprivileged. Plenty of statistical data supports this analysis.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 6:32 pm

So, um, er, getting back to the Olympics here.......
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Rara
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 6:42 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Not conflicting at all. Complimentary. Humanity lacks the knowledge and the act does not serve the purported purpose (or any other rational purpose, even a depraved rational purpose) even if we had the knowledge.

But then B747forever said that if the virus had been manufactured, it would have been a lot more effective, something which you rule out as entirely impossible.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 27):
But then B747forever said that if the virus had been manufactured, it would have been a lot more effective, something which you rule out as entirely impossible.

Wrote that before seeing Docs post. Tried to point out that if it really was manufactured they would have done a better job.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sun May 29, 2016 9:35 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
So, um, er, getting back to the Olympics here.......

Good idea!  

On a more serious note, I'm 99.5% positive "moving" the Olympics on 2 months' notice is close to impossible.

If it was for i.e. a soccer world cup, I could imagine that happening as there will always be countries like Germany, England, France, Spain or the US with a sufficient number of stadiums capable of hosting such a tournament.

However to find a venue for Olympic Games poses a whole different challenge, you'd need a city with facilities for about 30 types of sports, including such as Rowing or Sailing which narrows the possibilities by somewhere around 85%...

Actually off the top of my head the only city I could imagine capable of setting up venues for this summer would be London mainly because they kept good care of the Park etc (but even then, the Olympic Stadium has been slightly reconstructed for West Ham) and I HIGHLY doubt the IOC would give the Olympics to the same city twice in a row.

Tl; dr: If anything they might postpone it although I doubt how that would help.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Mon May 30, 2016 5:13 am

Who needs the Olympics, they are just a great waste of money.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Mon May 30, 2016 5:42 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 27):

But then B747forever said that if the virus had been manufactured, it would have been a lot more effective, something which you rule out as entirely impossible.

I'd say he's right, even if it were possible to do what the conspiracies say, an agent like Zika would simply mean that they failed badly.
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Mon May 30, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
I'd say he's right, even if it were possible to do what the conspiracies say, an agent like Zika would simply mean that they failed badly.

  

That is what I meant.
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Redd
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Tue May 31, 2016 7:39 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 25):
To put it simply, thanks to feminism in western world there are a lot more young men who can't find a relationship even though they wanted to,

As opposed to women being forced to date these socially inadequate men?

[Edited 2016-05-31 12:51:54]
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:06 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 6):

If Ebola was man made they did really bad job. I wish them better luck next time. Something that would cause a mortality rate similar to that of black death in Europe would be a decent job already

We get it, you hate non-Caucasians and have never been outside your village.

More important, are you going to attend the Olympic Games in Rio?
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cjg225
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:19 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
As for your average conspiracy theorist, due to the internet, video games and feminism you have a lot more mentally disturbed young men (and an occasional woman) in western world than ever before,

Video games...?
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:30 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
But if you're a fetus in your first trimester, it makes you microcephalic. That means that for your life you will have profound mental retardation. You may never walk. You will certainly never talk. You will not go to school (in any meaningful sense) or get a job. You will require lots of medical care and lots of social support. You will need to be housed, clothed, and fed by those caring for you.

Would you euthanise a child born like this? It would be the kindest thing to do imo.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:24 pm

This came out in Detroit news outlets today: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/06/...uez-says-he-contracted-zika-virus/

Detroit pitcher Francisco Rodriguez contracted the virius during his off season stay, in Venezuela, his home country. He claims to have been down for a couple weeks and not right for a couple of months. Rodriguez says he wouldn't blame any athletes that skipped the Olympics. I agree with him because if your livelihood depends on you being a athlete I wouldn't want to take unnecessary risks that could affect my health.
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A332DTW
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:30 pm

I'd say go at your own risk. Athletes and spectators should definitely be informed about the virus and its consequences, then decide for themselves if it's worth the risk.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Now, as a physician with a graduate degree in molecular biology who did molecular virology research, I can tell you that humanity is nowhere NEAR being able to design a virus from scratch.

Damnit. Well then my main theory for The Walking Dead doesn't really pan out.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
But if you're a fetus in your first trimester, it makes you microcephalic. That means that for your life you will have profound mental retardation. You may never walk. You will certainly never talk. You will not go to school (in any meaningful sense) or get a job. You will require lots of medical care and lots of social support. You will need to be housed, clothed, and fed by those caring for you.

Would it be correct to say that the only people who need to worry about this are pregnant women in their first trimester? Is there any threat if you contract zika and get pregnant sometime later down the line? Do we know the incubation period of zika?

As a man, how long would I have to wait after contracting zika to not be able to transfer it to a sexual partner?
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:37 pm

Teejay van Garderen has said he don't want go due to his girlfriend being pregnant. He was a strong contender for one of the 2 US cyclists to go.

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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 39):
Is there any threat if you contract zika and get pregnant sometime later down the line? Do we know the incubation period of zika?As a man, how long would I have to wait after contracting zika to not be able to transfer it to a sexual partner?

I agree Victrola, it is kind of funny that they say "only pregnant women" need to worry.

No, it appears that any person who is sexually active, or may become sexually active in the future, needs to worry about this.

100% of people start as a fetus, and 100% of them are created in a process that involves both a father and a mother, in whatever way (and 99.99% in one particular way). Tell me how the father being Zika positive doesn't matter?!
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:55 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 41):
No, it appears that any person who is sexually active, or may become sexually active in the future, needs to worry about this. 100% of people start as a fetus, and 100% of them are created in a process that involves both a father and a mother, in whatever way (and 99.99% in one particular way). Tell me how the father being Zika positive doesn't matter?!

I still have not gotten a clarification on these issues. If I contract zika and recover, how long would I still be a threat for passing it on to a partner? A week, a month , a year, forever? I was hoping Doc Lightning could give us a better explanation. The media have done a poor job of explaining the risks of zika.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:56 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 42):
If I contract zika and recover, how long would I still be a threat for
passing it on to a partner? A week, a month , a year, forever?

According to these articles, the virus can possible transfer itself for as long as up to 10 weeks
from time of symptom or infection, I am not sure but perhaps the forum house Doctor can elaborate?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6505e1.htm
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/2/14-1363_article

[Edited 2016-06-03 08:02:35]
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2):
What is really important though, if the Games are moved or cancelled, does Brazil gets its bribes back?

You win the thread!

As far as Zika, it seems to do the most damage to pregnant women. How many Olympic athletes competing in Brazil are pregnant women?
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Flighty
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
How many Olympic athletes competing in Brazil are pregnant women?

How many may become pregnant in the future? How many may have sex with women who are of childbearing age? Most Olympians, it is fair to say.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:20 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
As far as Zika, it seems to do the most damage to pregnant women. How many Olympic athletes competing in Brazil are pregnant women?

590,000 people traveled to the UK for the London 2012 games - how many of those were pregnant, fell pregnant or had sexual relations with someone while they were here? What about their sexual partners after they returned to their home countries?

Its not just the athletes that people are trying to protect.
 
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:48 pm

Well, the worse time for dengue is the first half of the year (hot and wet) and there are substantial drops in infection rates right around July/August ("winter" and dry season). Dengue is transmitted by the same mosquito as Zika. This drop has to do with the cooler temperatures affecting the mosquito's reproduction rate, so I would assume this is also going to affect Zika.

I am in no way qualified to give advice, but I'd say your chances of getting infected are pretty low. That said, if you're pregnant, the consequences are too great to be worth the risk.

Here's some epidemiological data from Rio's city government website comparing different years:
http://www.rio.rj.gov.br/web/sms/exibeconteudo?id=2815389

[Edited 2016-06-03 16:57:32]
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Aesma
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:57 am

For many athletes (but not all) there is nothing better than the Olympics, both as an experience and as a career tournament, so in my opinion it's worth risking to be out of shape for a couple of weeks or months. Next Olympics are in 4 years, your career could be over, or your best form gone, etc.

It has to be said though that there is a risk for adults, of getting a Guillain–Barré syndrome from Zika : basically your immune system reacts badly to the virus and attacks your nervous system. It can be fatal, or permanently cripple you.
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seb146
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RE: Zika Virus Experts Say The Olympics Must Be Moved

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:47 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 45):
How many may become pregnant in the future?

And how long after is Zika not an issue? Many people are wondering that.

Also, not everyone who is bitten contracts Zika and not everyone infected with Zika passes it on sexually.

Quoting moo (Reply 46):
590,000 people traveled to the UK for the London 2012 games

And how many are naturally immune to Zika? People should absolutely be talking about this and the health officials (everyone, really) should be insisting on condom use. But, I am just curious: if, say 20,000 non pregnant women travel to Brazil, how many will be infected with Zika and, of those infected, how many will become pregnant and, of those pregnancies, how many will be effected by Zika?

Again, people should absolutely take precaution against Zika. I just wonder if this is another "Ebola in America" thing.
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