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einsteinboricua
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Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:37 pm

So, summer has arrived, and with it, people who take their pets out of their homes and leave them inside cars when running an errand. States are considering different scenarios to deal with this: California wants to make it legal for a bystander to break open a car window after they've called 911 and confirmed there is no other alternative to ensure the pet's safety. Michigan wants to impose penalties for people who leave pets inside cars.

We all know the line: a car with closed windows can become an over after an hour under sunlight. We have penalties imposed for parents who leave their kids behind; what about pets?

A recent tweet came out showing an owner who left their dog inside a car with the AC running, effectively telling everyone that the dog was in a controlled environment.

Personally, I don't understand the need to take pets everywhere. If you go to the park for some play time the ideal scenario is to go back to your home, leave your pet, and then step out again if you need anything else. I think there should be penalties involved. I wouldn't go as far as allowing you to break a car window to get a pet (though I would agree for a baby). I don't care if your errand was 5 minutes long; the fact that you're even willing to leave a pet unattended in a vehicle says a lot about you, even if you leave them with the AC on.

What say you?
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Okie
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:53 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't care if your errand was 5 minutes long; the fact that you're even willing to leave a pet unattended in a vehicle says a lot about you, even if you leave them with the AC on.

Please enlighten what it would say.

I see animals in vehicles all the time. It is not always "summer" it is not always "too hot" even if it was summer.
What is your criteria.

Okie
 
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fallap
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:00 pm

I'll smash the window open, rescue the pet/child - then smash the remaining windows, key the car, puncture every wheel and tune the radio to a crappy channel.

Then call 911 or 112 in my case.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:08 pm

The issue is clear. If a dog was born male, it must use a BMW, if the dog was born female, it must use a Renault.

Quoting Okie (Reply 1):
I see animals in vehicles all the time. It is not always "summer" it is not always "too hot" even if it was summer.
What is your criteria.

If the dog is likely suffering, or already in coma, then smash the window. We all have a duty to protect animal welfare.


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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting fallap (Reply 2):
tune the radio to a crappy channel

        
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:32 pm

Guess I'm lucky to live in an area where I can leave my windows rolled all the way down regardless of where my vehicle is.

I don't know if I would make a blanket statement saying it's "Cruel", but I do think it is somewhat foolish to leave an animal unattended in your car.

If I wasn't so fortunate and I had to cart the dog/dogs around I'd probably buy a cap for my truck with sliding windows.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:36 pm

 
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:52 pm

It seems that in the last 10-15 years people have began to overly "personify" their pets. Clothing, gourmet-treats, BOUTIQUE stores for them and taking them everywhere with them. I'm sorry but a pet dog (or cat) is not a child, nor should it be carted around with you like a child. There are two reasons an animal should ever be in a vehicle; if they're going to the vet or if you're taking them to a specific location for exercise/hunting/etc. I shake my head when I see people with their dogs in malls or stores because it's so unnessesary. Unless you've got a talking dog who can tell you which dress looks good on you or what you should buy for dinner, leave them at home.

[Edited 2016-06-01 08:54:16]

[Edited 2016-06-01 08:55:27]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:29 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't care if your errand was 5 minutes long; the fact that you're even willing to leave a pet unattended in a vehicle says a lot about you, even if you leave them with the AC on.

I leave my dog at home, unattended, for 8 hours every day with the AC on. What does that say about me? How is 5 minutes in a climate-controlled car any different?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Personally, I don't understand the need to take pets everywhere.

And I don't understand the need to hold dogs up to the standard care of humans. I care tremendously about my dog, but I know he is still a dog. They're hardy animals that didn't even live indoors commonly until maybe 15-20 years ago.

In the situation of a parked car in sunlight that reaches unsafe temperatures, that's certainly a case where the standard of animal cruelty can be met. That is a far cry from saying all cases when an animal is left unattended in a confined space are cruel or even unpleasant for the animal.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):

The proposed California law sounds like a good idea to me. I wonder if there will be a provision specifying what the minimum
outside air temperature has to be before a car window can legally be broken?

As a side note what gets me really upset is when I see drivers who allow their dogs to sit on their laps while they are driving.
Seems like a major distraction to me and should be outlawed in all countries where this is practiced.
 
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:48 pm

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 7):

It seems that in the last 10-15 years people have began to overly "personify" their pets. Clothing, gourmet-treats, BOUTIQUE stores for them and taking them everywhere with them.

Not to mention funeral services for pets--pet caskets, pet cremation, urns, cemeteries and markers, and even some funeral homes (for humans) have services for pets as well.

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seb146
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't understand the need to take pets everywhere.

Some dogs are rescue dogs and had a horrible place before. They have separation anxiety. Some people prefer the companionship of their dog to people. Some people just want attention.

When we were down to one dog, we took him on road trips or out on errands. Partly because dealing with one dog is easier and partly because he was old and partly because we wanted him to know he was not alone.

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 7):

It seems that in the last 10-15 years people have began to overly "personify" their pets.

Some of that is just silly. But, if people have pets in place of kids, because of whatever reason, I get it. Still silly, but I get it.

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 9):
drivers who allow their dogs to sit on their laps while they are driving.

Or dogs who hang their head out the window or are in the back of a pick-up truck. How easily are dogs distracted and could just jump?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't care if your errand was 5 minutes long; the fact that you're even willing to leave a pet unattended in a vehicle says a lot about you, even if you leave them with the AC on.

Oh really? What does it say about me if I leave my dog in the car for 3 minutes while I run into 7-11 and get something to drink?

It actually says more about you that you're willing to judge people without bothering to try and find out all the facts.

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 7):
It seems that in the last 10-15 years people have began to overly "personify" their pets. Clothing, gourmet-treats, BOUTIQUE stores for them and taking them everywhere with them. I'm sorry but a pet dog (or cat) is not a child, nor should it be carted around with you like a child. There are two reasons an animal should ever be in a vehicle; if they're going to the vet or if you're taking them to a specific location for exercise/hunting/etc. I shake my head when I see people with their dogs in malls or stores because it's so unnessesary. Unless you've got a talking dog who can tell you which dress looks good on you or what you should buy for dinner, leave them at home.

What do you care how I treat my dog? Your whole paragraph can be summed up with this sentence:

"People do stuff that doesn't affect me at all, but I don't like it, so I'm going to say they shouldn't."

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Some people prefer the companionship of their dog to people.

  

Not that I mind people, but as I always say, dogs are much better people than people are.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 7):
people have began to overly "personify" their pets. Clothing, gourmet-treats, BOUTIQUE stores for them and taking them everywhere with them. I'm sorry but a pet dog (or cat) is not a child, nor should it be carted around with you like a child.

  
Absolutely right. In my social circle, there is one couple that no longer is invited to dinner parties (3 or 4 couples) because they refused to come unless they could bring their damn mongrel with them. I really don't care what they do in their own home, but I (and many of my friends) do not want their dog in our home, jumping up on our furniture, etc. The dinner party is for the adult couples, sans pets. IMHO, it's ignorant to think you can impose your pet on others and their homes.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
How is 5 minutes in a climate-controlled car any different?

In the old days (pre electronic door locks) you could do this by leaving the engine running with the AC on and still lock the car door. Just had to carry an extra key to let yourself back in. Now however, the doors can't be locked with the key in the ignition so leaving your car running while you dash inside is an invitation to car theft..... now you've got no pet, and no car!
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:49 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
How is 5 minutes in a climate-controlled car any different?

Your house has shade. Your house has a place where the dog can relief itself if it needs to. Your house has food and water for your dog if that 8 hour day turns into a 10-11 hour day and if you live with someone they can tend to it. I doubt the dog will stress out because you took 5 minutes to get a drink, but then again, you don't know if the errand will truly take 5 minutes or whether it will take longer.

Quoting Okie (Reply 1):
Please enlighten what it would say.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 12):
What does it say about me if I leave my dog in the car for 3 minutes while I run into 7-11 and get something to drink?

I've always said that anything you'd do with an animal you may also do with a kid. Would you leave a baby/toddler unattended for 3 minutes while getting your drink?

Honestly, to each their own. But I've never understood why that is. If I have a toddler and I want to get a drink, they're coming into the store with me. Stores don't allow pets, so I'd much rather drive home, drop off my cat, and then drive out to get the drink (or maybe by the time I get home the urge to get a drink will have passed). But if there's something I wouldn't do with a baby/toddler, I certainly wouldn't do it with an animal.


Quoting photopilot (Reply 13):
now you've got no pet, and no car!

And then somehow the police will be at fault for not being there when they needed to be.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:20 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
I've always said that anything you'd do with an animal you may also do with a kid. Would you leave a baby/toddler unattended for 3 minutes while getting your drink?

Well I'll never put my child down because it has cancer. But yes I would leave them unattended for a few minutes to get a drink. And no you do not know all the circumstances and if you think any that are "horrible" then you are incorrect.

I don't think pets should be left alone in cars for extended periods of time either but I am not on any horse so high that I won't look at each situation before I wait to judge. Might drive me crazy but as long as the pet is well cared for I can deal with it ultimately .

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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Some people prefer the companionship of their dog to people.

'The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.'
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
I've always said that anything you'd do with an animal you may also do with a kid. Would you leave a baby/toddler unattended for 3 minutes while getting your drink?

Well, you may say that, but it doesn't make it true.

And if so, shouldn't you be supportive of us bringing our pets around everywhere? Because that means we'll be bringing our kids around with us, spending lots of time with them, which I think is a good thing.

And no, I would probably bring the baby/toddler into the store with me (I say that hypothetically as I don't yet have kids...so that answer might change). Can't do that with dogs a lot of the time.

Effectively, we can't treat our pets the same as our kids, because societal laws and rules and such do not treat them the same.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
I doubt the dog will stress out because you took 5 minutes to get a drink, but then again, you don't know if the errand will truly take 5 minutes or whether it will take longer.

No, I don't. It might take one minute, or it might take 10. But if it's taking too long, it's not particularly bothersome to walk out of the store and drive the dog home.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 13):
IMHO, it's ignorant to think you can impose your pet on others and their homes.

Of course it is, and you seem to have solved that problem quite well by not inviting the offending couple.

But if I'm not imposing my pet on others, why does anyone care (as long as I'm not abusing or mistreating it)?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 9):drivers who allow their dogs to sit on their laps while they are driving.
Or dogs who hang their head out the window or are in the back of a pick-up truck. How easily are dogs distracted and could just jump?

I agree regarding dogs sitting on drivers' laps. But for dogs looking out the window, it likely depends on how well-trained they are, and how naturally risk-averse they are.

My dog loves to look out the open window while in the car (he's small, so his head isn't exactly sticking way out). But I would bet a lot of money that he will never even think about jumping out.

[Edited 2016-06-01 13:30:20]
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:23 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 13):
In the old days (pre electronic door locks) you could do this by leaving the engine running with the AC on and still lock the car door. Just had to carry an extra key to let yourself back in. Now however, the doors can't be locked with the key in the ignition so leaving your car running while you dash inside is an invitation to car theft..... now you've got no pet, and no car!

I don't have a key to put in the ignition. I can leave my car running with the key fob in my pocket and lock the doors behind me.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
Your house has shade. Your house has a place where the dog can relief itself if it needs to. Your house has food and water for your dog if that 8 hour day turns into a 10-11 hour day and if you live with someone they can tend to it. I doubt the dog will stress out because you took 5 minutes to get a drink, but then again, you don't know if the errand will truly take 5 minutes or whether it will take longer

If my dog is relieving itself inside my house, then I've got just the same problem if he relieves himself in my car. And it's poor discipline to leave uneaten food around. He eats when I put it in front of him or he waits for the next meal.

Seeing as my dog does fine with 4 hour road trips with no shade or water, I'm not really worried about my 5 minute errand turning into 15 minutes or 50 minutes. The next time I go into a gas station and it takes me an hour to leave will be the first time.
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Aesma
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:32 am

How do you leave the A/C on but the car closed, two sets of keys ?
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fr8mech
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:59 am

Back when I was on the FD, we went to many a run where an animal was trapped in a sweltering car. Always, after an obligatory check of the doors, we would take a window and turn the dog over to animal control or the PD.

Quoting fallap (Reply 2):
I'll smash the window open, rescue the pet/child - then smash the remaining windows, key the car, puncture every wheel and tune the radio to a crappy channel.

So, you go from rescue to vandalism?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
A recent tweet came out showing an owner who left their dog inside a car with the AC running, effectively telling everyone that the dog was in a controlled environment.

In some localities, usually in the hotter climates, there are "no-idle" laws.

Quite simply, as a civilian, I'd make a quick evaluation of the condition of the animal, call the police and then take a window.

It is unacceptable t leave an animal, unattended in a car during the hot months of the year.

Don't even get me started on young kids being left in a car, unattended, anytime of the year or day.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 22):
It is unacceptable t leave an animal, unattended in a car during the hot months of the year.

Don't even get me started on young kids being left in a car, unattended, anytime of the year or day.

Oddly, in the early 80s I remember quite vividly being left unattended with my younger sisters in my parents' car while they'd run a quick 10 minute errand - and this was in the Phoenix area during the summertime. No one ever complained.

Just an example of how things that are a no-brainer no-no today were commonplace 30 years ago.
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fr8mech
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:07 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 24):
Just an example of how things that are a no-brainer no-no today were commonplace 30 years ago.

It's not just the weather that concerns me these days...

But, to your point:

-seat belts
-child seats
-riding backwards in a station wagon
-riding on the floorboards or back deck
-more kids than seats

All these were commonplace 30 or 40 years ago...

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 24):
Oddly, in the early 80s I remember quite vividly being left unattended with my younger sisters in my parents' car while they'd run a quick 10 minute errand - and this was in the Phoenix area during the summertime.

Now days, the parents would close the windows and lock the car in the interest of safety.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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jetwet1
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Living in Vegas (where it cleared 100 F for the first time yesterday we get the warning on tv and radio about leaving kids and pets in cars, still people ignore it. At our company we have a simple rule, break the window, get the kid/pet out, deal with the parent/owner after.

Personally, I would prefer we lock the parent/owner in the car, sitting in the sun for 30 minutes, but that's not allowed......
 
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:30 pm

Quoting fallap (Reply 2):
tune the radio to a crappy channel.

The radio station that plays "Who let the dogs out?"
 
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting fallap (Reply 2):
I'll smash the window open, rescue the pet/child - then smash the remaining windows, key the car, puncture every wheel and tune the radio to a crappy channel.

Then call 911 or 112 in my case.

I thought about you yesterday. I pulled up to the Starbucks for an espresso on the way home.

Parked right next to a diesel extended cab pickup running with about a 130lb dozer the angry Rottweiler sitting there in air conditioned comfort.
Now I imagined fallap bashing out the windows with a tire iron and letting dozer loose. Do you think dozer would not naw your arm off or escape and run into traffic and get run over?
How about "Billy Bob" who left Starbucks with his coffee while I was waiting for my espresso. He was open carry. What would be the outcome if Billy Bob comes up on you with your tire iron weapon.
I am thinking lead poisoning might be a possibility.

I am thinking "Billy Bob" was treating his dog pretty good.

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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:48 pm

I think there's a clear difference between leaving the dog outside a 7/11 for 5 minutes with the windows slightly open, and leaving the dog in say a stadium parking lot while you're taking the family to a ball game.

I will assume that most people aren't stupid enough to break open windows on a cloudy or cool day. However should you encounter a dog in a car that's clearly left for a while (i.e. not outside a Starbucks) in the baking sun, I'm all for breaking the window. If it were up to me people who are found guilty of animal abuse or neglect should be banned from owning any sort of pet for the remainder of their lives.

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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:44 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 23):
Personally, I would prefer we lock the parent/owner in the car, sitting in the sun for 30 minutes, but that's not allowed....

A demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3QFDEYy2Cg
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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LMP737
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:50 am

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 7):
I shake my head when I see people with their dogs in malls or stores because it's so unnessesary. Unless you've got a talking dog who can tell you which dress looks good on you or what you should buy for dinner, leave them at home.

These are usually the same people who have their dog in their lap while they are driving. Which is incredible dangerous for the driver and the dog. It distracts the driver and in the event of a collision the the dog will likely be killed and the driver seriously injured.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:55 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 28):
Which is incredible dangerous for the driver and the dog.

More importantly, it dangerous too me, the person on the road with this idiot and his (or her) dog.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:32 pm

What's wrong with tying your dog to a post outside the store you're going into? Pretty sure that's what people did when I was young. And whilst many might defend their right to go into Starbucks or 7/11 to grab something, it's still the case that I see tons of dogs in cars in the Safeway car park (with the windows cracked, as if that makes any difference). That's a bit different.

It's pretty annoying, but I think this kind of law is much more trouble than its worth. It would be better to encourage people to call the police, and instead have stiff penalties for the driver once they get there.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:12 pm

I'd like to see anyone leave their A/C running (which involves keys in the ignition for most cars) anywhere in Houston. I guarantee you they'd be more pissed that their car is gone, much less their dog.
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:23 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I don't care if your errand was 5 minutes long; the fact that you're even willing to leave a pet unattended in a vehicle says a lot about you, even if you leave them with the AC on.

So I'm going down to Santa Barbara with the dogs. I need to eat/pee. What shall I do with them? When leashed to something, I can't trust that they won't get boundary aggression and possibly bite someone. I leave them in the car with the A/C on and go do my business.

That's not abuse. They can't put the car into gear unless they can somehow depress the clutch AND move the gear selector all at the same time (not to mention press the release on the parking brake and then deactivate it). Even in an automatic, they need to depress the brake and move the gear selector.

I do not try to take them in the car with me everywhere I go, but sometimes they are going where I'm going and I can't take them inside every place.

Sometimes after a trip to the beach I take them to the Pet Food Express for the dog wash. There's a Safeway next door. I'll leave them in the car with the windows cracked (if it's cool out) or with the A/C on (if it's warm) if I need to do my grocery shopping. I'm not driving 6 miles home and then back to the supermarket.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 30):

What's wrong with tying your dog to a post outside the store you're going into?

Dogs on leashes who are normally well-behaved can get aggressive. 80% of bites happen on dogs who are tied to an object. Even my little sweet poodle who has no bite history had a go at a random passer-by's ankle when leashed up. That's why they stay in the car now.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 30):
What's wrong with tying your dog to a post outside the store you're going into? Pretty sure that's what people did when I was young.

People probably did all sorts of stuff when you were young that they don't do now.

Times change. People change.

Besides, my dog is not good with people he doesn't know. Tying him to a post outside the store is a fantastic way to ensure I'll get sued. And he's small and can't inflict much damage.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 31):
I'd like to see anyone leave their A/C running (which involves keys in the ignition for most cars) anywhere in Houston. I guarantee you they'd be more pissed that their car is gone, much less their dog.

That's nice, but rather irrelevant, since most of us don't live in Houston.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 30):
(with the windows cracked, as if that makes any difference).

Windows cracked can make a HUGE difference to interior car temperature. On days where I forget to crack my windows at work, the inside of the car can easily be 10-15 degrees hotter than on days that I do crack them.
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zckls04
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:42 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 33):
Windows cracked can make a HUGE difference to interior car temperature. On days where I forget to crack my windows at work, the inside of the car can easily be 10-15 degrees hotter than on days that I do crack them.

Actually multiple studies have shown that to be largely false. E.g:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/116/1/e109.full
http://www.injuryprevention.org/states/la/hotcars/hotcars.htm

In the end probably best 9 times out of 10 to leave the dog at home. At least then you minimize the risk. Sounds like you may be one of the ones who already do that, but let's face it there are plenty who don't, and who value convenience far more than their dog.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:21 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 34):
Actually multiple studies have shown that to be largely false.

That's nice, but I get in and out of my car every day, and there is a very noticeable difference.

Maybe that's because cars probably cool down quicker with the windows cracked once the sun isn't hitting them anymore. I don't know.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 34):
In the end probably best 9 times out of 10 to leave the dog at home. At least then you minimize the risk. Sounds like you may be one of the ones who already do that, but let's face it there are plenty who don't, and who value convenience far more than their dog.

I'm one of the ones who has no problem leaving the dog in the car for a 5 minute excursion into 7-11 or whatever.
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TWA772LR
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:14 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 33):
That's nice, but rather irrelevant, since most of us don't live in Houston.

That's the funny thing about big cities. They are all alike. The same goes for New York, Chicago, LA, Miami, etc... The point is, a car with keys in the ignition in an urban area, not a rich upscale area, is primed to be stolen.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 35):
That's nice, but I get in and out of my car every day, and there is a very noticeable difference.

That's nice, but did you take into account of other variables that affects ambient air temperature like barometric pressure and humidity?

Seriously dude, stop being condescending.
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fr8mech
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:35 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
I leave them in the car with the A/C on and go do my business.

In some locales, leaving the car idling is illegal. But, if it's ok where you live and you're comfortable with leaving the car running, more power to you. I don't.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
windows cracked (if it's cool out) or with the A/C on (if it's warm)

Again, see above.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 33):

Windows cracked can make a HUGE difference to interior car temperature.

No, windows cracked, do not make a huge difference. At best, they make a barely perceptible difference. Air movement is what makes a difference. And, cracked windows do not provide enough area to allow adequate airflow.
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ltbewr
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:49 am

Too many people are so attached for their pet dogs and other pets they bring them everywhere, including in their cars, despite the dangers.
Even if leave the car running, the A/C on during hot days, is not only an invitation for getting the car and dog stolen, possibly not covered by insurance of stolen, also responsible for a theivs' acts, and possibly a summons with a fine for leaving a car running unattended.
I have no problem with a pet in a car for a few minutes in front of a convenience store, but other places - no way.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:04 am

We just had a case here this past week. The windows were open and a small cup of water left on console. It was eighty degrees outside and 103 degrees in the open car. Dog was noticed in distress. The woman was cited, dog seized after numerous pages in mall finally drew her outside. It is illegal here to leave pets in car at any time of year. I support the law because people are brainless. It was sorely needed. Of course now because of the law more of these types try to smuggle their dogs into stores.
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HGL
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:49 am

Interesting that some people are willing to leave a vehicle unattended with keys in the ignition while they go off to do the shopping. That alone would be unlawful in Australia.

Why? Some one could easily steal the vehicle and the police don't want to tie up resources investigating a crime that could easily have been avoided. You would also find that the insurance company would not cover the theft as your negligence would be seen as having increased the risk.
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StuckInCA
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:50 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
I've always said that anything you'd do with an animal you may also do with a kid.

Hah!

You must not have kids.

As soon as people have kids, relationships with pets are redefined. I've never seen it otherwise. Dogs are not children and only people without children even entertain the notion. Well, there may be a few mentally ill people who don't fit this pattern.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting HGL (Reply 40):
That alone would be unlawful in Australia.

Not illegal here. It's illegal, in some jurisdictions, to leave the vehicle running, but I've never heard of leaving the keys in the car, even the ignition, being illegal.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 41):
As soon as people have kids, relationships with pets are redefined.

Agreed.

Kids, below, say 8 or 9...maybe even 10, depending on maturity, should never be left in a car alone...running or not, cold/cool/warm/hot.

Pets? A few minutes isn't really a problem, depending on the weather, but I'd never leave a car running, unattended, for any reason. And, the dog don't count as "attending".
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:41 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 36):
Seriously dude, stop being condescending.

Fair enough, sorry about that. I just don't appreciate being judged for leaving my dog in the car for a few minutes.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:03 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 43):
I just don't appreciate being judged for leaving my dog in the car for a few minutes.

You're not being judged, you're being castigated.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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flipdewaf
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:02 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 9):
I wonder if there will be a provision specifying what the minimum
outside air temperature has to be before a car window can legally be broken?

making a law prescriptive is a really good way to make it a fck box so people can follow the letter but not the spirit. Best to have something about reasonable actions based on circumstances.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
Your house has a place where the dog can relief itself if it needs to.

yes, the garden, but my door is locked and if she shits in the house she'll get a hiding.

Basically I believe you can leave your dog unatended in a car for a reasonable amount of time. If you see a dog in distress then you can call the police who can break the window and get the dog out.

What is a reasonable amount of time you might ask? Reasonable in this circumstance would be an amount of time that, based I the prevailing conditions both inside and out, and current situation would not cause the animal undue harm.

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fallap
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:26 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
So, you go from rescue to vandalism?

You gotta exploit every opportunity there is.

Quoting bohica (Reply 24):
The radio station that plays "Who let the dogs out?"

Ahahaha! Or steal the radio instead...
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OMP777X
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:45 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
How do you leave the A/C on but the car closed, two sets of keys ?

My Avenger came with the remote start feature built into the key controls on the keys themselves. I just bought a 2015 Pilot last month and was somewhat suprised to see that the controls on its keys didn't have a remote start built into it, so for $500 I had the dealer put one in. In either vehicle, when I get to 7-11 to grab a drink on my way home from a vet appointment with the dog, I just need to set the A/C and the radio, and I pull the key out of the ignition. I get out and lock the car from the key remote, wait a second, and then remote start it. Then the dog waits for one minute while I grab my drink and scratch off ticket.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 42):
Not illegal here. It's illegal, in some jurisdictions, to leave the vehicle running, but I've never heard of leaving the keys in the car, even the ignition, being illegal.

Qu

Here in Chicago you will be written a ticket for leaving one key in the ignition after locking it with another. This happens all of the time in the winter when people whose cars don't have remote start try to warm up the vehicle by locking the key in the car while its running by using the spare key. The window then gets smashed by a car thief waiting up the block, and you go to the police to report a stolen car and get handed a pricey ticket for leaving your vehicle unattended with the key in the ignition.

Here in Chicago there is no law against leaving your vehicle running in place without the keys in it (i.e. started by a remote), but I'd still never leave the dogs alone in the car for more than one minute without being able to see them the whole time. There are too many people stealing dogs out there in this city. Our one dog is a theft risk because he is pure bred, and cost a bunch when my gf bought him before we met. Our others would make good bait dogs to someone who fights them, or would be easy to turn a quick buck off of on Craigslist since they're cute. Either way, I would be more concerned someone would take the dog than think I left the car on without the air running and smash my window, but the situation might change after I move to the burbs.

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Redd
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 12):
Oh really? What does it say about me if I leave my dog in the car for 3 minutes while I run into 7-11 and get something to drink?

It say's you're willing to have your windows broken by someone. How much effort does it take to take your dog with you and tie him up infront of the 7-11?

Passers-by aren't privy to your intentions. There is also the issue of unintended situations, what if you get mugged, attacked, hit by a car, trip over a something and hit your head on the curb and lose consciousness. Your dog is now stuck in the car while you're on your way to the hospital.
 
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RE: Pets In Cars Debate

Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:54 pm

Quoting Redd (Reply 48):
Passers-by aren't privy to your intentions.

...Which is exactly why they shouldn't rashly get involved and start doing things using what might be vastly mistaken assumptions.

If someone's going to break my windows in a 7-11 parking lot to save my dog, that someone is simply an idiot. Percentages alone would tell you that the vast majority of cars spend less than 5 minutes there.

Quoting Redd (Reply 48):
There is also the issue of unintended situations, what if you get mugged, attacked, hit by a car, trip over a something and hit your head on the curb and lose consciousness. Your dog is now stuck in the car while you're on your way to the hospital.

If you try and plan for every single thing that might go wrong, you will never leave your house.
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