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bmacleod
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UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:01 pm

I guess this isn't surprising considering the intense heat of the Persian Gulf but wondering what refits such as cooling systems can be installed to counter the effects from the intense heat?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/europe/britain-royal-navy-warships/
 
rutankrd
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:38 am

BAE and RR built the ships the MOD specified.

i.e. NATO North Atlantic -Russia deterring vessels.

Believe they need to cut access panels and add diesel powered generators to drive cooling pumps and the current inter cooling system is not sufficient.

This will add weight need additional storage tanks for the diesel engines and associated plumbing etc..

The diesel engine signature will have to have shielding (real and electronic) to reduce the resulting electronic markers that an aggressor may see.

Yes some issues with the Type 45
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:50 am

The Royal navy has had a continuous presence in the Gulf since the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, this has become so established that we are presently building a dedicated facility in Bahrain.

Bearing this in mind it is impossible to see how either the MOD, or BAe/RR could ever be surprised that these ships could end up in warm waters.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:34 am

In another news, the German army replaces its G36 assault rifle. Yes, why? Because it gets inaccurate when the barrel is hot.

Wikipedia:

"In April 2012, reports surfaced that G36 rifles used in Afghanistan would overheat during prolonged firefights after several hundred rounds were fired. Overheating affected the accuracy of the G36, making it difficult to hit targets past 100 meters, ineffective past 200 meters, and incapable of effective fire past 300 meters. The G36 has been called unsuitable for long battles. HK said the rifle was not designed for sustained, continuous fire. German soldiers gave no negative feedback. Operational commanders advised allowing the weapon to cool between periods of rapid shooting."

Funny thing is that the Bundeswehr then sued the manufacturer, Heckler & Koch, for delivering subpar weapons.

They lost, and H&K could prove that their rifles are fulfilling the specifications - because when it was introduced in the late 1990ies, nobody thought the Bundeswehr would be involved in a war. They ordered a rifle that was perfectly suitable for exercises...


David
 
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cjg225
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 3):
nobody thought the Bundeswehr would be involved in a war

At least defense departments and militaries around the world share stupidity in common.

Regardless of what a country's military thinks it's chances of being involved in conflict are, they are still a military. You sort of need to plan for the reason you exist...
 
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par13del
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:49 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 4):
Regardless of what a country's military thinks it's chances of being involved in conflict are, they are still a military. You sort of need to plan for the reason you exist...

So you assume because it is military they are supposed to fight???
How about providing something to do for unemployed youth, allowing the government to spend tax payers money to assist the economy, having a intimidating force for the local population, I could go on but I think you get the picture.
 
aloges
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:55 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 3):
They ordered a rifle that was perfectly suitable for exercises...

Sounds perfectly in line with ordering transport aircraft that are (almost) exclusively for static display.

Quoting par13del (Reply 5):
So you assume because it is military they are supposed to fight???

Be fair to them. For the first decades of its existence, the West German military wasn't supposed to be anything more than a speedbump for Soviet invaders.
 
johns624
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 6):
For the first decades of its existence, the West German military wasn't supposed to be anything more than a speedbump for Soviet invaders

But they were very, very good speed bumps. I knew a retired Army CWO in the early/mid 80's who said that the Germans were still the best tankers in the world.

[Edited 2016-06-12 15:13:44]
 
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par13del
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:14 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 6):
Be fair to them.

I was being general, apologies for not specifically saying so...

Quoting aloges (Reply 6):
For the first decades of its existence, the West German military wasn't supposed to be anything more than a speedbump for Soviet invaders.

Based on what I read of their equipment and training engagements with friendly forces it would have been the mother of all speed bumps  
 
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Aesma
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:33 am

I find it strange that the cooling would be so marginal. Warm waters aren't that warm. Unless this is caused by the will to minimise thermal signature, putting more emphasis on isolating the heat sources rather than cooling them.
 
Acheron
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:43 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):

It depends if it relies on certain water temperature for the cooling to be effective. For example, Russian nuclear icebreakers can't go to warmer waters than what is tipical for the Arctic Circle for this reason.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:31 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
It depends if it relies on certain water temperature for the cooling to be effective. For example, Russian nuclear icebreakers can't go to warmer waters than what is tipical for the Arctic Circle for this reason.

The same way nuclear power stations have to be shut down in warm summers because the water taken out of the river for cooling is too warm to begin with...


David
 
TheSonntag
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:35 am

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 4):
At least defense departments and militaries around the world share stupidity in common.

And the german one is very famous for this.
 
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cjg225
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:39 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 5):
So you assume because it is military they are supposed to fight???
How about providing something to do for unemployed youth, allowing the government to spend tax payers money to assist the economy, having a intimidating force for the local population, I could go on but I think you get the picture.

Not 100% sure if joking...
 
Ken777
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Re: RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:26 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Quoting Acheron (Reply 10): It depends if it relies on certain water temperature for the cooling to be effective. For example, Russian nuclear icebreakers can't go to warmer waters than what is tipical for the Arctic Circle for this reason.

The same way nuclear power stations have to be shut down in warm summers because the water taken out of the river for cooling is too warm to begin with...
David


The nuclear powered Navy ship I was fortunate to serve on (USS Long Beach) never had a cooling problem, but it was designed to sail in all waters. We even had individual ac ducts in all berths - even the enlisted berths.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:16 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The nuclear powered Navy ship I was fortunate to serve on (USS Long Beach) never had a cooling problem, but it was designed to sail in all waters. We even had individual ac ducts in all berths - even the enlisted berths.


They don't have a cooling problem, the Russians designed them only for use in Arctic waters, they never intended to operate them outside of them, so why design in a capability which will never be used?
 
L-188
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Re: RE: UK Naval Ships Breaking Down Due To Heat.

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:49 am

cjg225 wrote:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 3):nobody thought the Bundeswehr would be involved in a war
At least defense departments and militaries around the world share stupidity in common.

Regardless of what a country's military thinks it's chances of being involved in conflict are, they are still a military. You sort of need to plan for the reason you exist...


Sorry but the Germans do get a special mention for having half their trucks in Afghanistan red-tagged because their IM stickers had expired and they didn't have portable testing equipment so they would have had to be flown back to German to be recertificated

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