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LH748
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:44 am

RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:04 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 93):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
The media needs to stop referring to the incident as a gay shooting.

Even though the shooter clearly targeted gays at a known gay club? He appears to have gone there with the sole intention of killing gays.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
Do the sexual preferences of the wounded and dead really matter? I say NO.

Normally, I'd say no, but in this specific case, it's clearly relevant.

You are 100% right about that. If part of the motive was the sexual orrientation of the club's guests, it would be totally wrong to keep quiet about it. This was no random pick but clearly targeted the gay community and everyone who is supportive of them/us. If a racist white guy attacks a "black" church it is also important to mention race as a decisive factor. Of course neither skin color, sexual orrientation, or religion, or whatever you could possible think of should matter. However, if one of these factors is part of an attacker's motive it must be mentioned.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:05 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 99):

He made a statement basically saying that sexual orientation was relevant — which I disagree with, and I feel that the news media needs to stop focusing on this sole aspect. Pick another...50 PEOPLE dead, a terrorist attack, lax background checks...basically, stop making this about a gay attack, it was an attack on people at a club, and there is no way to know — or reason to care — if the wounded and killed were straight, gay, bi, etc.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:08 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 101):
He made a statement basically saying that sexual orientation was relevant — which I disagree with, and I feel that the news media needs to stop focusing on this sole aspect. Pick another...50 PEOPLE dead, a terrorist attack, lax background checks...basically, stop making this about a gay attack, it was an attack on people at a club, and there is no way to know — or reason to care — if the wounded and killed were straight, gay, bi, etc.

Question: if the club in question had been an ordinary non-gay club, would he have travelled there from 200 miles away to kill 50 people?
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:11 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 101):

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 99):

He made a statement basically saying that sexual orientation was relevant — which I disagree with, and I feel that the news media needs to stop focusing on this sole aspect. Pick another...50 PEOPLE dead, a terrorist attack, lax background checks...basically, stop making this about a gay attack, it was an attack on people at a club, and there is no way to know — or reason to care — if the wounded and killed were straight, gay, bi, etc.

If someone is killed, you're correct that it really doesn't matter if it's because they are gay, straight, white, black, etc. They are still just as dead and it's still just as painful.

Having said that, if you are trying to ignore a motive, then you probably are going to struggle in this thread as clearly motive is an important component in discovering WHY this happened. That is very important to the victim's, their families, the gay community, Americans, and even Muslims There's an interest in understanding it so that we can make sense of it, address it, and hopefully learn from it. If nothing else, we want to recognize the real pain and loss that the gay community is feeling right now. I'm not sure if trying to brush aside the hate that fueled the attack is productive or respectful. It doesn't mean we need to obsess over it, but we do need to discuss it.

-Dave
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:13 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 102):
Question: if the club in question had been an ordinary non-gay club, would he have travelled there from 200 miles away to kill 50 people?

Once someone is radicalized, there's no predicting what they'll do. Supposedly, he was offended by seeing two men kiss, but as nobody can say what he was thinking, I surely will not speculate.

Marc
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:16 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 102):
Question: if the club in question had been an ordinary non-gay club, would he have travelled there from 200 miles away to kill 50 people?

To be fair, another honest question could be "If the club in question was a known middle class white bar, and they were killed by a black madman, would race be relevant?"

Or, conversely, "If the club in question was a known African American hangout, and they were killed by a white supremacist, would race be relevant?"

Or, "If the club in question was a known Christian dance club (do they exist?), and they were killed by a gay guy who had been attacked in his life by Christian fundamentalists, would sexual orientation be relevant?"

I can't help but think in all cases, it probably would be very relevant.

-Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:18 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 104):
Supposedly, he was offended by seeing two men kiss, but as nobody can say what he was thinking, I surely will not speculate.

1. He made many anti-black, anti-woman, and anti-gay comments to a co-worker.
2. He apparently was offended profusely by seeing two men kiss.
3. His father thinks he's a candidate to be the next Afghani leader.
4. He called 911 and tied his cord to ISIS.

Of course we don't know what he was thinking inside his sick head but it's pretty clear it wasn't "I hate Sunday's".

-Dave
 
aloges
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:19 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 74):
Eliminate much of the black on black crime and those numbers look far different.

Did you not get the memo? Blacks are considered people these days. You're not even supposed to call them niggers anymore. Hope that helped.




Disclaimer: the above is not only dripping with sarcasm, it is floating in the stuff.

[Edited 2016-06-13 13:20:56]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 84):
Dan Patrick auto-sends a bible verse every Sunday morning at the same time. This bible verse was picked days in advance and was tweeted while the situation was still unfolding. The verse in context has nothing to do with people "getting what they deserve" because of what Dan Patrick personally believes.

Dan Patrick is a vile human being who regularly says awful things about the LGBQT community, going after trans people with a vengeance only matched by his lack of action on actual sexual assaults (Hey Baylor!). The fact that his rotten "christian" proclamations happened to coincide with their logical end only serves to underline how awful he is. But again, this is totally par for the course with the GOP. Use Selective Christianity™ to demonize the LGBTQ community and when a bunch are murdered point the finger at someone else...

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 84):
Both the presumptive GOP nominee (Trump) and the runner-up (Cruz) made sympathetic statements to the LGBT community. Neither has ever called for "the earth to be rid" of gays. Next?

Trump has been pretty quiet about us; I'm not sure why since he's crapped on just about any and everything else. Cruz and his father however are another story, and have attended a conference with a pastor who wants to exterminate the gays...while covered in feces. Or something. You never know what kinda crazy you're dealing with when it's dominionists, but I wouldn't trust Cruz or his father as far as I can throw them.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 84):
Our country was attacked yesterday by the violent ideology of radical Islam that seeks to destroy all of that.

I'm sorry which one is the violent ideology?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 72):
Which one is the enemy here? Is it the people responsible for:

A) 3500 deaths +/- since 9/11
B) 450-500,000 deaths since 9/11
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 88):
My God, you're so right: the numbers DO look so much better for the US now. In stead of being between 10 and 15 times as high as those European countries, they're now *only¨* six to ten times as high...

   So much better  
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 101):
it was an attack on people at a club, and there is no way to know — or reason to care — if the wounded and killed were straight, gay, bi, etc.

Preeeeeeetty sure the sole goal here was to murder as many gay people as possible. Not sure why you're trying to sweep that under the rug but it can't be good.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:24 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 107):
Did you not get the memo? Blacks are considered people these days. You're not even supposed to call them niggers anymore. Hope that helped.

Do you really think he said that because he doesn't think Blacks are people? Get real. I believe he said it because of a culture of violence that seems prevalent in the urban Black community that seems to feed on itself to a degree. Of course their lives matter - of course they are people - of course they aren't less than anyone else. However, it seems to be culture within that community that can be set aside from most of America, including Blacks outside of the urban cores of large cities.

No, I don't have data. I'm sure there are numbers to contradict everything I just said. Nonetheless, that's what I'm assuming he was referring to. Like in an airlines earnings statement when they quote numbers ex-fuel or numbers excluding unique circumstances. It's meant to give a more accurate overall picture outside of certain pockets.

Anyhow, probably a mistake to reply but oh well.

-Dave
 
Scorpio
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:31 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 104):
Once someone is radicalized, there's no predicting what they'll do. Supposedly, he was offended by seeing two men kiss, but as nobody can say what he was thinking, I surely will not speculate.

Yeah that's the easy cop-out answer right there, isn't it?

We both know it's HIGHLY likely he targeted the club specifically because it was a gay club.
 
slider
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:31 pm

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/0...-100-people-killed-maimed-orlando/

Milo is the bomb. Love this guy--his irreverence is a great delivery mechanism for sound points, but as a gay man, he's absolutely dead spot on 100% right. He nails the point that Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society; Islam has arrived to roll the clock back.

Quote:
The Christian Right may not be totally down with homos, and Trump may say things that hurt our delicate feelings, but they aren’t going to kill us or put us in camps. Only Islam would do that — the same Islam that, bizarrely, now stands at the top of the left’s hierarchy of victimhood.
 
aloges
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:35 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 109):
Do you really think he said that because he doesn't think Blacks are people?

What else can I think when he says we should subtract blacks from the statistics on dead people? As someone else said earlier:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 85):
it is textbook dehumanization

and there's no other way to describe it.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:42 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 111):
Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society; Islam has arrived to roll the clock back.

I'm sorry, how many Muslims are there in our government today? And should we review the tape as to who opposed both getting "equal footing" or should we just continue in our blissful ignorance?

Quoting aloges (Reply 112):
What else can I think when he says we should subtract blacks from the statistics on dead people?

I didn't even think about that first time around but racism is like an onion--so many layers. Crazy.
 
aloges
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:51 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 113):
racism is like an onion--so many layers

Since races are highly irrelevant as far as biology is concerned - you could even say the concept is completely made up - racism is extremely adaptable and versatile. When you're talking bollocks, your choice of topic doesn't really make a difference.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:55 pm

At least one straight person was killed.

She was there with her son and to dance to the music.

http://www.nbcnews.com/card/brenda-l...arquez-mccool-49-n591436?cid=sm_fb

Marc
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:55 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 112):
What else can I think when he says we should subtract blacks from the statistics on dead people? As someone else said earlier:

I thought I just laid it out? There's a huge proportion of the violence in a concentrated city center core. The vast majority of America is likely not exposed to that level of violence. When you are talking about the rate of homicide by gun in America, unless you are talking to people who are somewhat familiar with that living situation, they aren't going to necessarily relate to it or joyfully give up their right to own and carry a weapon.

I don't personally devalue the city center violence, but I don't relate to it because I've never been in that environment and the people that I know that own guns are simply in a different world than that. I hate to see it, particularly when innocent children are gunned down, but that's one reason I've chosen to stay away from the big city environments. If I lived in Chicago, for example, I might have a very different take on the whole gun ownership opinion.

-Dave
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:57 pm

What could your point possibly be?

Could this be any more predictable from a known and vitriolic homophobe like you?

And that to do with far more than a mere gay marriage stance.

One trick pony.
 
victrola
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:05 pm

Imagine what people would say if Trump was making the same statements about blacks that he is making about Moslems....
 
aloges
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:05 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 116):
I thought I just laid it out?

I certainly believe that you think that. Here's why you did not:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 116):
huge proportion of the violence in a concentrated city center core

Whether you like it or not, those are American city centres where Americans kill other Americans. That means it's completely asinine to exclude those deaths from nationwide statistics - unless of course one believes that black lives don't matter.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 116):
I don't relate to it because I've never been in that environment and the people that I know that own guns are simply in a different world than that.

They are not in a different world, they are in the same country. Your paths may not cross theirs, but that doesn't change the fact that dead "urban blacks" are every bit as American as you are.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 117):

No...homophobe is not a word that would describe me, but accusatory is a word I would use to describe you. You don't know ME. Nobody on here knows ME.

Being against certain things does not make me a homophobe. I am for people being able to go out and have a night of fun without having to fear for their lives. I'm not for people worrying about friends and loved ones in an act of terror. The events of Saturday night are inexcusable in any circumstance, and by any person with a brain.

Clearly the shooter had issues.

Marc
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:13 pm

This. Is. Amazing. And really what it's all about: money and selling more guns. Sure Islamic terrorism is a problem...if you're Muslim, in a Muslim country. But here you're 1000x more likely to be killed thanks to the NRA. And here are just a few of the prolife suckers that have bent over for the NRA, holding onto their ankles while yip yapping about 'thoughts and prayers' after every massacre. And by "thoughts and prayers" they mean they think you'll forget about it while they pray for more money from the NRA to ignore the problem

http://www.good.is/articles/our-thou...F_6ba6a62031a411e69519013b248da655


Quoting victrola (Reply 118):
Imagine what people would say if Trump was making the same statements about blacks that he is making about Moslems....

Meh his poll numbers would probably go up.
 
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pu
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:23 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 102):
n: if the club in question had been an ordinary non-gay club,

If the target had been a church or veteran's meeting, the US reaction would be very different.




Pu.
 
luckyone
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 95):
But for some reason among followers of Christianity fundamentalism, and especially will to enforce it upon others, seems to be much less common than among followers of Islam.

There are notable examples of Islamic countries being run by and/or funding religious fundamentalist. Having grown up in the socio-political "Evangelical" world, I can assure you that the will is quite strong in many circles. In most countries with large Christian populations, however, there is intentional separation of church and state legislation which has prevented it from reaching such levels (at least in the present day, the past is quite a different story). Just from my own experience, unless you were protestant, you were going to hell (and unless you were Baptist there's still a chance you'd end up there....), and it's your job to tell everyone who isn't a protestant that unless they become a protestant they're going to hell. And I went to a very large church in suburban Atlanta. Minus the Baptist-centric nonsense that ideology was repeated in countless churches. One need look no further than recent religious-inspired legislation in many states with large evangelical populations to deduce what they would like to do should they be given free reign.

[Edited 2016-06-13 14:28:02]
 
luckyone
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
I'm going to say this once:The media needs to stop referring to the incident as a gay shooting. The victims were humans first and foremost, American (or other nationality) second, and anything else is moot. These were people out for a good time on a Saturday night with friends or significant others, colleagues, etc.Do the sexual preferences of the wounded and dead really matter? I say NO.Marc

There I agree with you. There is an undeniably homophobic component to his choice of target, but this crazy fool was going to light up a room no matter who was dancing in it. This was terrorism first, and homophobia second. Doesn't make it any better, though.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 70):

To read the comments of his co-worker, he brought up this guys anger and bigotry issues numerous times but his employer wouldn't do anything about, apparently because he was Muslim but I'm not sure that can be verified as true. Regardless, he had known anger issues and tolerance issues that were ultimately unaddressed.

I haven't found that article. Can you post it. It would dovetail well with his wife's statements.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:47 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 124):
There I agree with you. There is an undeniably homophobic component to his choice of target, but this crazy fool was going to light up a room no matter who was dancing in it. This was terrorism first, and homophobia second. Doesn't make it any better, though.

What upsets me more than the incident itself...ISIS attacks France - national days of mourning. ISIS attacks Belgium - national days of mourning. ISIS attacks a club in Orlando - flags at half staff. Don't our own citizens at least deserve the level of respect other countries paid to victims of ISIS terror there?

Marc
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 119):
Whether you like it or not, those are American city centres where Americans kill other Americans. That means it's completely asinine to exclude those deaths from nationwide statistics - unless of course one believes that black lives don't matter.

Whether I like it or not? Why are you trying to provoke a fight? I think you are trying to take issue with my comments for the sake of taking issue with them.

Quoting aloges (Reply 119):
They are not in a different world, they are in the same country. Your paths may not cross theirs, but that doesn't change the fact that dead "urban blacks" are every bit as American as you are.

Again, you are clearly trying to grandstand rather than have a reasonable discussion.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 125):
I haven't found that article. Can you post it. It would dovetail well with his wife's statements.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...hat-helps-secure-us-embassies.html

"At least one former G4S employee, Daniel Gilroy, says he raised numerous concerns with supervisors about Mateen’s hateful and potentially dangerous behavior.

Gilroy told Fox News that he and Mateen had worked as security guards at the same South Florida resort and that Mateen, a Muslim, used “horrible words” at the sight of women and blacks and was in a constant state of “anger and rage.”

However, the company refused to take action on his complaints, and Gilroy was forced to quit last year after Mateen began sending him harassing text and phone messages, according to Florida Today.

“The company wouldn't do anything,” Gilroy told the paper. “This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people." "

-Dave

[Edited 2016-06-13 14:51:36]
 
DLFREEBIRD
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:53 pm

I am incredible sad about Orlando Nightclub shooting. i can't even watch the news because I just don't want to hear it. I did see people stand in line around the block to donate blood. I want to hear about the victims not the shooter. I hope if anything, this will soften people hearts and that they will realized the cost of hate and how dangerous it is to divide people into categories.

Many different thoughts have been going through my mind. Mainly trying to ignore this, is not going to make it go away. My heart goes out to the Lgbt community. Been on your side since the 80's. I did not have to evolve. However, if this tragedy makes people evolve. Then maybe all these lost lives will not be in vain.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 126):

There was irrefutable evidence in Belgium and Paris that IS cells were responsible. That is not the case in MCO thus far. That's the explanation.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:21 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
The media needs to stop referring to the incident as a gay shooting. The victims were humans first and foremost, American (or other nationality) second, and anything else is moot. These were people out for a good time on a Saturday night with friends or significant others, colleagues, etc.

Marc don't faint    but for once i agree with you
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:24 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 3):

Trump will be really disappointed when it will be discovered that it was a anti gay murder and not a terrorist act
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 130):

Marc don't faint    but for once i agree with you

So have your views changed today?
 
Cadet985
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:46 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 130):

I'm trying to change some of my views as my age increases.

I wish you a Ramadan Mubarak.

Marc
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:47 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 122):
If the target had been a church or veteran's meeting, the US reaction would be very different.

As long as it was a white church. If it's a black church that's mowed down then the GOP sticks its head in the sand "nope definitely not racism. Definitely not racism..." like they're an inbred Rain man. Or Sarah Palin. Same same 
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 129):
There was irrefutable evidence in Belgium and Paris that IS cells were responsible. That is not the case in MCO thus far. That's the explanation.

Apparently the shooter pledged allegiance to anything and everything that sounded scary in the Middle East, including groups directly opposed to each other: Taliban, Hizbullah, ISIS, you name it.
 
aloges
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:48 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 127):
Why are you trying to provoke a fight?

Nope. I'm just pointing out that discounting the deaths of anyone is a non-starter.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 127):
Again, you are clearly trying to grandstand rather than have a reasonable discussion.

There is nothing to discuss in this particular case. It's only about discounting and/or disregarding the deaths of certain people, which one person (not you) said should be done. The only reason why anyone would suggest such a thing is racism.

Your talk of a

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 109):
culture of violence that seems prevalent in the urban Black community

a

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 109):
culture within that community that can be set aside from most of America

is nowhere near as bad as slider's "dead blacks don't count" approach. I do however have problem with the idea that one part of the country "can be set aside from most of America" because that's cherry-picking. Whether or not you, personally, consider yourself threatened by gang violence doesn't change its relevance, including statistical.

[Edited 2016-06-13 15:49:41]
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:09 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 134):
Nope. I'm just pointing out that discounting the deaths of anyone is a non-starter.

You took what you wanted to hear from what I said and ran with it. My bad for typing it, though, so I accept responsibility for it.

Quoting aloges (Reply 134):
I do however have problem with the idea that one part of the country "can be set aside from most of America" because that's cherry-picking.

Again, that's not what the point of my statement was. I had a long response typed just now but I don't see the point. I'll let it end with your spin.

-Dave
 
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OA412
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RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:47 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 111):

I'm impressed. In one fell swoop, he was able to embarrass me as a person of Greek descent, a LGBT person, and a LGBT person of Greek descent. That certainly takes some talent...
 
slider
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:30 pm

OA412 wrote:
Quoting slider (Reply 111):
I'm impressed. In one fell swoop, he was able to embarrass me as a person of Greek descent, a LGBT person, and a LGBT person of Greek descent. That certainly takes some talent...


Yet Milo is correct. Being gay is very much anathema to mainstream Islam. One more thing that makes Islam incompatible with free society, the West and the concept of individual liberty.

Ayatollah Ali Sistani, when asked what Islam’s judgment is on sodomy and lesbianism, said “Forbidden. Those involved in the act should be punished. In fact, sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible.” Yup, let it sink in: “killed in the worst manner possible.” That’s a dude, BTW, who was hailed by our last two presidents as being a ‘moderate’ voice of Islam and reason.

That's not the fringe. So be offended by Milo all you like, but he's fundamentally absolutely correct. And gay people need to wake up to this reality. It's not the cake-bakers that are trying to behead, stone or throw gays off a bridge. They may disagree with the lifestyle, but they're not going to murder you for it.
 
DDR
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Re: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:31 pm

Latest news is that apparently the shooter had been going to this gay club for THREE years. Is it possible he was "confused" and had guilt feelings because of this? Also, his wife apparently knew what he was planning but did not contact the authorities. Oops, she's going to be in some trouble for that.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:52 pm

slider wrote:
And gay people need to wake up to this reality. It's not the cake-bakers that are trying to behead, stone or throw gays off a bridge. They may disagree with the lifestyle, but they're not going to murder you for it.

Like hell we need to "wake up to this reality". What you and other "prolife" broken records need to "wake up" to is the reality that guns kill ONE THOUSAND TIMES as many Americans per year as terrorists, and only a fraction of those terrorists are Muslim. Now I know you will yet again avoid this obvious simple fact, like the GOP avoids science or ethics 4 Jesus, but that *is* the reality, not whatever coincidentally gay cretin you discovered under a rock.
 
BestWestern
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:56 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 99):
He made a statement basically saying that sexual orientation was relevant — which I disagree with, and I feel that the news media needs to stop focusing on this sole aspect. Pick another...50 PEOPLE dead, a terrorist attack, lax background checks...basically, stop making this about a gay attack, it was an attack on people at a club, and there is no way to know — or reason to care — if the wounded and killed were straight, gay, bi, etc.


He cased the joint, visited a few times and had a gay dating app. He knew what he was doing. He knew who he was targeting.
 
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SOBHI51
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 130):
I'm trying to change some of my views as my age increases.

I wish you a Ramadan Mubarak.

Marc


Thank you
 
lewis
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Re: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:34 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 92):
The media needs to stop referring to the incident as a gay shooting.

Nope, most media has got it right. I am pretty sure you wouldn't be happy to be told that an attack at a synagogue or a Jewish wedding reception was anything other than an anti-semitic attack.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/owen- ... 78891.html
 
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OA412
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:01 am

slider wrote:
Yet Milo is correct. Being gay is very much anathema to mainstream Islam.

It's also very much anathema to mainstream Christianity, or did I miss the part where the Catholic Church, the various Orthodox Churches, the Southern Baptists, etc. suddenly embraced the gays?
slider wrote:
One more thing that makes Islam incompatible with free society, the West and the concept of individual liberty.

Fundamentalist Christianity is also very much incompatible with a modern, free society. Railing against gays, women, transgender people, etc. and attempting to do everything in your power to pass laws that hurt them is not compatible with a free society.
slider wrote:
That's not the fringe. So be offended by Milo all you like, but he's fundamentally absolutely correct. And gay people need to wake up to this reality. It's not the cake-bakers that are trying to behead, stone or throw gays off a bridge. They may disagree with the lifestyle, but they're not going to murder you for it.

First of all, like the Black people who's lives you think are so worthless they should be removed from the official US homicide count, I'm my own person, with my own free will, and can think for myself. I don't need you telling me to which reality I need to wake up. Patronizing me won't make me suddenly see the light.

I don't live in a Muslim country, I live in one where people are allowed to discriminate against me because of the way I was born under the guise of their "sincerely held religious beliefs." The cake bakers are the ones most affecting my life right now, not Muslim extremists. As Maverick noted, the chance of dying as a result of an attack by a Muslim extremist is infinitesimal. However, my chance of being affected by the actions of fundamentalist homophobes is pretty high. After all, it's not Muslim extremists committing the majority of anti-gay acts in this country.

The "at least they're not murdering you so be happy about that" line is a diversion. Plenty of fundamentalist Christian preachers have called for the extermination of gays. What stops them from doing so is our secular society and rule of law. I don't have Christian extremists beheading me in spite of Christianity, not because of it.
 
L-188
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:38 am

aloges wrote:
Quoting slider (Reply 74):Eliminate much of the black on black crime and those numbers look far different.
Did you not get the memo? Blacks are considered people these days. You're not even supposed to call them niggers anymore. Hope that helped.




Disclaimer: the above is not only dripping with sarcasm, it is floating in the stuff.[Edited 2016-06-13 13:20:56]


I wonder how many rap artists and black comedians are aware of that?
 
L-188
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:42 am

Scorpio wrote:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 104):Once someone is radicalized, there's no predicting what they'll do. Supposedly, he was offended by seeing two men kiss, but as nobody can say what he was thinking, I surely will not speculate.
Yeah that's the easy cop-out answer right there, isn't it?

We both know it's HIGHLY likely he targeted the club specifically because it was a gay club.


It also probably worked into his planning that is was a gun-free zone that was densely packed. He didn't have to worry about the cops showing up until they finished their doughnuts, which gave him plenty of time to cause as much havoc as possible. It wouldn't have mattered if he had used a firearm, homemade explosives or set a fire after blocking the escapes. He was out to kill to make a point.

Abolishing a civil right for everybody is not a just result of this.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:47 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
This. Is. Amazing. And really what it's all about: money and selling more guns. Sure Islamic terrorism is a problem...if you're Muslim, in a Muslim country. But here you're 1000x more likely to be killed thanks to the NRA. And here are just a few of the prolife suckers that have bent over for the NRA, holding onto their ankles while yip yapping about 'thoughts and prayers' after every massacre. And by "thoughts and prayers" they mean they think you'll forget about it while they pray for more money from the NRA to ignore the problem

http://www.good.is/articles/our-thou... ... 3b248da655


Quoting victrola (Reply 118):Imagine what people would say if Trump was making the same statements about blacks that he is making about Moslems....

Meh his poll numbers would probably go up.


Once again you clearly demonstrate you have no clue what the NRA is, what they are about or how they help educate and advocate firearm owners and non-owners alike.

Instead just like a follower of the Nazi propaganda machine you use it as a weapon to take away a great civil right, just like they were doing against the "Jewish Conspiracy" in 1930's Germany or like the Iranian government rallies against the nation of Israel today.

Your NRA Boogie-man argument is growing very stale and most people with common sense see right through it for the uneducated propaganda statement it is.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:53 am

Most countries don't have a significant gun lobby, guns are not in their political debate, guns are not a civil right, and nobody cares.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: RE: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:55 am

L-188 wrote:
Once again you clearly demonstrate you have no clue what the NRA is, what they are about or how they help educate and advocate firearm owners and non-owners alike.
...
Your NRA Boogie-man argument is growing very stale and most people with common sense see right through it for the uneducated propaganda statement it is.

You are HYSTERICAL. Yah the NRA is busy "educating" alright, by paying anyone that will take a check millions of dollars to make sure guns are anyone and everyone's hand no matter the competence or need. I'd call the NRA terrorists but that would be unfair, as the NRA aids THOUSANDS of times more American deaths than terrorists. But you keep smokin' that gun! I mean whatever you're smoking! NRA educating people...LOL.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8385
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Re: Another USA Mass Shooting - This Time Gays Part 2

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:04 am

Bipolar

Closeted bisexual man in a religion that preaches hatred towards gay men so Outwardly homophobic.

In a religion hated by a large proportion of the nation, calling for his deportation.

Legal Access to guns and ammo.

Angry, very angry. History of domestic violence.

Isis propoganda.

Opinionated outspoken father.

the sum of the above is greater than the parts.
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