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photopilot
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Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:00 pm

Well in light of recent events in Orlando, and those who argue that gun control won't work, perhaps they might wish to read this international study that shows it does work.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/1112018...ntrol-study-international-evidence

And please, let's keep the make-believe world of religion out of this thread.

Quote:
"..........they did find a compelling trend whereby new restrictions on gun purchasing and ownership tended to be followed by a decline in gun deaths."
 
sccutler
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:04 pm

Not a huge surprise, but what is the essential flaw in the study?
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DocLightning
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:25 pm

I think that this study will convince the devoted just as much as the mountain of global warming evidence has convinced the devoted. As much as the mountain of evidence that vaccines are safe and effective has convinced the anti-vaxxers.

As soon as the GOP said that they weren't going to allow guns at their convention, they showed that they know what the rest of us know: restrictions work.
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photopilot
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:39 pm

You're right of course. The article is sort of like preaching to the choir. People who believe that gun control is the answer will read the article but those who believe that even more guns are needed, the arm everyone crowd will likely not even bother to read it.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:27 pm

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
And please, let's keep the make-believe world of religion out of this thread.

Well there goes the thread before it starts  Guns *are* religion. People have faith in something that they think will protect them, when the evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
As soon as the GOP said that they weren't going to allow guns at their convention, they showed that they know what the rest of us know: restrictions work.

Restrictions work especially w/ bat sh!t crazy people at a possibly contested convention
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pu
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:07 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
what the rest of us know: restrictions work.

Something maybe a lot of American people don't know: there are many millions of legal gun owners in Europe, Canada, Australia etc. The right to bear arms is NOT a US constitutional innovation. It is an ancient right in England et al. that was merely imitated.

For anyone who's really interested in how gun freedoms coexist with the rights of the majority non-gun-owners to live in safety, Google gun laws in big hunting countries like the UK or Canada.







Pu.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:20 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 5):

Something maybe a lot of American people don't know: there are many millions of legal gun owners in Europe, Canada, Australia etc.

Yes, but if you have a history of multiple convictions and are on a terrorist watch list, you are going to have trouble getting one in those places. In the U.S. a known ISIS sympathizer and spouse abuser on an FBI watch list can buy a semiautomatic weapon.
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Cadet985
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RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:47 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
As soon as the GOP said that they weren't going to allow guns at their convention, they showed that they know what the rest of us know: restrictions work.

I was under the impression that the GOP and rank and file wanted guns, but it was the USSS that said no way.

Marc
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:13 pm

DocLightning wrote:
As soon as the GOP said that they weren't going to allow guns at their convention, they showed that they know what the rest of us know: restrictions work.


You cannot extrapolate a decision made for a private event to a public policy affecting the entire country.

DocLightning wrote:
Quoting pu (Reply 5):
Yes, but if you have a history of multiple convictions and are on a terrorist watch list, you are going to have trouble getting one in those places. In the U.S. a known ISIS sympathizer and spouse abuser on an FBI watch list can buy a semiautomatic weapon.


U.S. federal law already enforces many limitations on firearm ownership for convicted felons.

What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?
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DocLightning
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:25 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?


We already restrict air travel. It's important to realize that owning a semiautomatic rifle is not in the same class as voting or press. Voting and press don't kill 50 people in a spree. Semiautomatic rifles do.
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aloges
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:34 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation.

If there's such a problem with keeping an unstable person from purchasing firearms because of the way the Second Amendment is interpreted, it's time to change the interpretation or scrap the Second Amendment.
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OA412
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:21 pm

aloges wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation.

If there's such a problem with keeping an unstable person from purchasing firearms because of the way the Second Amendment is interpreted, it's time to change the interpretation or scrap the Second Amendment.

This. The problem is we can enact common-sense gun legislation, but groups like the NRA don't want that. The pro-gun crowd acts as though there's unfettered gun access and "gun grabbing" with no in-between. The idea that restricting someone who is a known terrorist sympathizer from obtaining firearms will lead to restrictions for all is a red herring. That's simply not what the vast majority of people are proposing, but it doesn't stop people from sounding the alarm bells the moment anyone suggests that someone who is too unstable to own a gun should be restricted from doing so.
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MaverickM11
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:38 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
You cannot extrapolate a decision made for a private event to a public policy affecting the entire country.

No but you throw in the millions of dollars the GOP takes to do the NRA's bidding, the complete and total inaction after every single mass shooting, and the yip yapping of being "prolife" when they're everything but and yes, you can extrapolate a decision made for a private event because you know they're totally full of it.

DfwRevolution wrote:

What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?

Voting? The GOP is already going gangbusters left and right restricting it. Freedom of the press? Check out what Trump is doing to the press. If only voting had an interest group as powerful as the NRA!
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:40 pm

Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...
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MaverickM11
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:46 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...

Wasn't that hard for Chris Kyle!
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DocLightning
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:47 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...


Do you see what the LGBT community has done in 25 years?

We get shit done.
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Mir
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:50 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed.


Offer not valid for those with certain criminal records or for the mentally ill, among others.

Clearly, it can be infringed. Can we stop with that tired old line now? Or are you suggesting that you're okay with those mentioned above having access to firearms?
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OA412
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:57 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when we didn't have a standing army. We now have a well-regulated Militia, so it's usefulness has long since passed. I'm not saying let's ban all guns. There is such a thing as responsible gun ownership, but we're clearly doing it wrong in this country. We have to come to terms with the fact that our Constitution needs updating. We have to stop pretending that we just need to "return to the Constitution" because those who wrote it are long dead, and can't really speak to what their original intent actually was, regardless of Constitutional originalists' claims that they have a direct pipeline into the thoughts of the founding fathers. The Constitution was written by and for wealthy, white landowners, which excludes the majority of us. It is monstrous that our Constitution has been interpreted to allow unfettered access to guns for all, but doesn't guarantee a right to health care.
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MrHMSH
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:09 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...


So even if by popular vote the law was changed and it became illegal to own a gun without permits, you still wouldn't do it? For someone that natters on about the law and rights being so important that's a strange attitude to take. One could almost accuse you of being a baby about all this.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:34 pm

DocLightning wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?


It's important to realize that owning a semiautomatic rifle is not in the same class as voting or press.


There are different "classes" of Constitutional rights? Where is that written?
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DocLightning
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:02 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?


It's important to realize that owning a semiautomatic rifle is not in the same class as voting or press.


There are different "classes" of Constitutional rights? Where is that written?


Case law. The Supreme Court has ruled that certain Constitutional rights may be limited when there is a reasonable cause. For example, Antonin Scalia pointed out that the mandated security screening prior to flying is a "horrible" invasion on the right to privacy, but that it is warranted and reasonable in light of the risks of flying.

Also, the 2nd amendment has some poor wording and can be interpreted to say that regulation is acceptable. On one end of the spectrum, one could argue that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed" gives you the right to possess weaponized bioweapons or nuclear arms. On the other end of the spectrum, one could argue that the "well-regulated" clause means that the government could restrict you to owning nothing more dangerous than a butter knife. And recently, the 9th Circuit argued that the 2nd Amendment gives you the right to OWN arms, but not to CARRY them.

More to come. :)
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flyingturtle
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:04 pm

Here is something for you:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Politics-Voices/2016/0614/Asking-tough-questions-of-ourselves-after-Orlando

The author thinks that many people in the gun debate justify their opinions first, only then comes "Heck, what could be a possible solution to this problem?".


David
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DocLightning
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:25 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Here is something for you:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Politics-Voices/2016/0614/Asking-tough-questions-of-ourselves-after-Orlando

The author thinks that many people in the gun debate justify their opinions first, only then comes "Heck, what could be a possible solution to this problem?".


David


The trouble is that right now the NRA and political right in the U.S. are saying: "There is no gun problem. More guns make us safer." No budging.

I'm afraid that someone is going to blow up the GOP convention or NRA HQ before this changes.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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L-188
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:58 pm

The thread title is a lie, and the source used is not a legitimate news source. They are very left wing.

The only gun control that works is using both hands to get a stable firing position.
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L-188
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:01 am

photopilot wrote:
You're right of course. The article is sort of like preaching to the choir. People who believe that gun control is the answer will read the article but those who believe that even more guns are needed, the arm everyone crowd will likely not even bother to read it.


This "article" sums up what Joseph Gobbells said, "Repeat the lie enough times and it becomes the truth"

I know not the exact quote but it sums up the thinking of the morons that make up the gun control lobby.
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L-188
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:09 am

DocLightning wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?


We already restrict air travel. It's important to realize that owning a semiautomatic rifle is not in the same class as voting or press. Voting and press don't kill 50 people in a spree. Semiautomatic rifles do.


Are talking about limiting a civil right based on a list that reportedly has a minimum of a 37% false accusation rate, with no way to contest being on it? Plus add to that the number of reported cases of people being put on it because they looked the wrong way at a TSA retard fondling their child's genitalia at the airport?

If you want to try and restrict the right based on that right then there needs to be a legitimate appeal process, That means a way to figure out how the determine how they got on the list, a legitimate administrative and judicial method of review to get off that list if wrongly put on there (like Ted Kennedy and about a dozen people named David Nelson were) and a way to go after the federal agents who put people on that list out of spite.

Until that happens that list should not be used to take away any civil rights, and my right to own firearms is a civil right!
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L-188
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:13 am

aloges wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation.

If there's such a problem with keeping an unstable person from purchasing firearms because of the way the Second Amendment is interpreted, it's time to change the interpretation or scrap the Second Amendment.


There is no problem. Heller is correct.

The only people who have a problem with the way the second amendment is interpreted tend to be the liberal scum that want to take away a civil right for no valid reason.

And saying we should because some Islamic lone wolf went nuts would not be a valid reason.
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L-188
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:18 am

OA412 wrote:
aloges wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation.

If there's such a problem with keeping an unstable person from purchasing firearms because of the way the Second Amendment is interpreted, it's time to change the interpretation or scrap the Second Amendment.

This. The problem is we can enact common-sense gun legislation, but groups like the NRA don't want that. The pro-gun crowd acts as though there's unfettered gun access and "gun grabbing" with no in-between. The idea that restricting someone who is a known terrorist sympathizer from obtaining firearms will lead to restrictions for all is a red herring. That's simply not what the vast majority of people are proposing, but it doesn't stop people from sounding the alarm bells the moment anyone suggests that someone who is too unstable to own a gun should be restricted from doing so.


Sorry but the idea that "Common-Sense Legislation" has been proposed is a myth. No "Common Sense Legislation" has ever been proposed by any anti-firearm politician and none even will be. So you need to stop using that phrase because it just isn't true. It is just a marketing phrase used by gun grabbers to justify their drive to take away a civil right.
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L-188
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:22 am

MrHMSH wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...


So even if by popular vote the law was changed and it became illegal to own a gun without permits, you still wouldn't do it? For someone that natters on about the law and rights being so important that's a strange attitude to take. One could almost accuse you of being a baby about all this.


Actually back in the 1990's when Canada hoisted the now failed long-gun registry a hell of a lot of them never bothered to registered them.

Considering how passive the Canadian reputation is, it is amazing how many of them told the government to take a hike.

To be honest is a model for the Americans to follow if the feds pull that stunt here. I doubt however we will be as nice about it as they were.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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Re: RE: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:24 am

DocLightning wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
What other civil liberties should be suspended because someone is on a government watch list or FBI investigation. Voting? Freedom of the press? Running for president as the presumptive Democratic Party candidate?


We already restrict air travel. It's important to realize that owning a semiautomatic rifle is not in the same class as voting or press. Voting and press don't kill 50 people in a spree. Semiautomatic rifles do.


Semiautomatic rifles don't kill 50 people in a spree either. But don't let the truth get in your way. Like the fact firearms ownership is enshrined in the Bill of Rights, just like freedom of speach, which is part of our consitution just like voting.
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L-188
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:29 am

DocLightning wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
Here is something for you:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Politics-Voices/2016/0614/Asking-tough-questions-of-ourselves-after-Orlando

The author thinks that many people in the gun debate justify their opinions first, only then comes "Heck, what could be a possible solution to this problem?".


David


The trouble is that right now the NRA and political right in the U.S. are saying: "There is no gun problem. More guns make us safer." No budging.

I'm afraid that someone is going to blow up the GOP convention or NRA HQ before this changes.


Somehow I don't think you would really blow up that convention as a problem.

The only gun problem is by small minded liberals who don't want to tackle the real issues of Islamic terrorism, drug crime and poverty that cause these shootings. They just a small minded thinkers who think taking away a civil right will solve a "problem".
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MaverickM11
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:42 am

L-188 wrote:


The only gun problem is by small minded liberals who don't want to tackle the real issues of Islamic terrorism, drug crime and poverty that cause these shootings. They just a small minded thinkers who think taking away a civil right will solve a "problem".

You got any data to back that up there chief?? LOLZ just kidding we know you don't know what data even is! Bless your heart.
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BMI727
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:49 am

photopilot wrote:
Well in light of recent events in Orlando, and those who argue that gun control won't work, perhaps they might wish to read this international study that shows it does work.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/1112018... ... l-evidence

And please, let's keep the make-believe world of religion out of this thread.

Quote:"..........they did find a compelling trend whereby new restrictions on gun purchasing and ownership tended to be followed by a decline in gun deaths."

You could fix a lot of things by taking people's rights without due process. The price of doing so is so terrible as to make such a thing unthinkable.
DocLightning wrote:
In the U.S. a known ISIS sympathizer and spouse abuser on an FBI watch list can buy a semiautomatic weapon.

What due process is there associated with the FBI watch list?

DocLightning wrote:
We already restrict air travel.

And we do it wrong. There should absolutely be due process by which one is placed on a no-fly list.
MaverickM11 wrote:
Check out what Trump is doing to the press.

Trump is not the government. He has no obligation to accommodate or provide access to any member of the media.

OA412 wrote:
It is monstrous that our Constitution has been interpreted to allow unfettered access to guns for all, but doesn't guarantee a right to health care.

You do not get the right to enslave healthcare providers just like gun enthusiasts do not have a right to enslave gunsmiths by forcing them to provide them weaponry.

MrHMSH wrote:
So even if by popular vote the law was changed and it became illegal to own a gun without permits, you still wouldn't do it?

Democracy is just two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. No majority opinion has the ability to trump individual rights. If it is allowed to do so then all of what America was founded on has been lost.

DocLightning wrote:
Case law. The Supreme Court has ruled that certain Constitutional rights may be limited when there is a reasonable cause.

Then get your reasonable cause and take it to a judge.
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L-188
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:23 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
L-188 wrote:


The only gun problem is by small minded liberals who don't want to tackle the real issues of Islamic terrorism, drug crime and poverty that cause these shootings. They just a small minded thinkers who think taking away a civil right will solve a "problem".

You got any data to back that up there chief?? LOLZ just kidding we know you don't know what data even is! Bless your heart.


Maverick, do you have a real point to make or are you just insulting me because you have no point that would make sense to anybody but a facist liberal gun grabber.

The NRA and it's local chapters have some excellent education programs, but of course since they actually teach adults and kids about firearms, firearm safety, law enforcement courses, Marksmanship rather than, "Guns are bad ban them" you refuse to believe that. This once again displays to the public here that you are both small and closed minded and not open to learning the truth or educating yourself.
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FlightShadow
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:28 am

Trolley Square. February 12, 2007. Proof that good people with concealed firearms can have a tremendously beneficial effect on the outcome of a malicious mass shooting. Trolley Square, as just one example, could have been much, much worse.

Let's do what we can to keep terrorists from hurting us. But do not infringe on my ability to reasonably defend myself from realistic threats. When any bad guy can get a gun, legally or illegally, don't take my guns away. And don't think that banning a certain type of gun will prevent the bad guys from getting one anyway. How'd the US government prohibition of alcohol go again?
"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
 
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pu
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:37 am

L-188 wrote:
taking away a civil right will solve a "problem".


Just curious: do you believe requiring people to register to vote, or requiring an ID to vote, or denying children the vote, is taking away a civil right? What's wrong with similar requirements for gun owners?





Pu.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:52 am

L-188 wrote:
a facist liberal gun grabber.

You have no data. I rest my case. No further questions.
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L-188
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:01 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
L-188 wrote:
a facist liberal gun grabber.

You have no data. I rest my case. No further questions.


And you have no case, just move for a dismissal and be done with it.
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flyingturtle
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:27 am

DocLightning wrote:
The trouble is that right now the NRA and political right in the U.S. are saying: "There is no gun problem. More guns make us safer." No budging.


The more specific problem she was pointing out in the article was that pro-gunners and anti-gunners totally believe in their "solutions" because they don't have to bear any responsibility if something happens. Naaah, this school is too far away, these 20 dead children don't affect me... I only said that we should all carry teh gunz for moar safety...

But if you actually were a principal of a school, and your career, your retirement, your pensions depended on creating a safe environment for the children... what then?


David
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MaverickM11
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:39 am

FlightShadow wrote:
Trolley Square. February 12, 2007. Proof that good people with concealed firearms can have a tremendously beneficial effect on the outcome of a malicious mass shooting.

You mean the police?
FlightShadow wrote:
When any bad guy can get a gun, legally or illegally

IE the Trolley Square shooter?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:19 am

pu wrote:
L-188 wrote:
taking away a civil right will solve a "problem".


Just curious: do you believe requiring people to register to vote, or requiring an ID to vote, or denying children the vote, is taking away a civil right? What's wrong with similar requirements for gun owners?

Pu.


Let's see...don't you have to have an ID to purchase a gun? Age laws in effect for gun purchases are there not?
People certainly should be required to register to vote.

If gun laws are all that is needed to decrease gun violence, could someone please call Chicago, Detroit and NYC and let them know immediately!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... heres-why/

I don't own a gun, btw. But support the right of those who do from the socialists who are eager to support freedom of speech as long as it agrees with their opinion (see OP comment).

I guarantee you that some on here believe the government should be providing "free" air transportation to the "less fortunate" in this country. Along with their phone, healthcare, home, electric bill, etc.

Freedom of the individual does not exist in a vacuum. We have to accept the risks of that freedom in the context of the community and the world we live in.

It is sad that no one likes to discuss the REAL reasons why there was an attack in the first place. Gun control would not have stopped that from happening.

Pushing political social agendas while ignoring the real reasons.....will only result in more death. It always has in history. When a people lose their moral compass and turn to government to deliver to them, they are already lost. And you know what they say about history.....
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:57 am

sldispatcher wrote:
It is sad that no one likes to discuss the REAL reasons why there was an attack in the first place. Gun control would not have stopped that from happening.


If it were impossible to acquire an AR-15 in the USA without the cooperation of an international cartel of terrorists and gun smuggler, I suspect it would not have happened. (Actually, WaPo says it was a Big Sauer MCX...which makes precious little difference to the victims).

In France, it took a vast international network to smuggle those weapons in. It wasn't just some pissed-off self-hating gay guy.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3543
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:11 am

sldispatcher wrote:
Let's see...don't you have to have an ID to purchase a gun? Age laws in effect for gun purchases are there not?
People certainly should be required to register to vote.

If gun laws are all that is needed to decrease gun violence, could someone please call Chicago, Detroit and NYC and let them know immediately!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... heres-why/

I don't own a gun, btw. But support the right of those who do from the socialists who are eager to support freedom of speech as long as it agrees with their opinion (see OP comment).

I guarantee you that some on here believe the government should be providing "free" air transportation to the "less fortunate" in this country. Along with their phone, healthcare, home, electric bill, etc.

Freedom of the individual does not exist in a vacuum. We have to accept the risks of that freedom in the context of the community and the world we live in.

It is sad that no one likes to discuss the REAL reasons why there was an attack in the first place. Gun control would not have stopped that from happening.

Pushing political social agendas while ignoring the real reasons.....will only result in more death. It always has in history. When a people lose their moral compass and turn to government to deliver to them, they are already lost. And you know what they say about history.....


I own numerous (and I do mean numerous) firearms and live in the Detroit area. The police chief in the city has been on record encouraging people to protect themselves, get the proper license to allow themselves to carry, because when they need defending in seconds, the police are minutes away.

Liberals are a fickle bunch, huge supporters of women, huge supporters of Muslim immigrants. But, they can't see the forest for the trees, in that the very immigrants they want to support consider one of their other big group as a second class citizen.

But, once again, Obama proves he's good at one thing, selling guns and ammo.
From my cold, dead hands
 
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seb146
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:14 pm

[quoteSomething maybe a lot of American people don't know][/quote]

Yes, Pu, Americans DO know Europe and Canada and Australia are allowed to own guns. We know. Every time there is a mass shooting in the United States, the gun nuts and ammosexuals drag out that tired picture of Swiss people on bicycles carrying guns and say "See? They have guns and they are a safe country because of guns!" without understanding the laws of Switzerland.

Gun nuts and ammosexuals seem to think that, when the Second Amendment was written, it applies to things like AR-15s and AK-47s and guns that can fire off 13 rounds a second.

And nothing will change.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
Posts: 23881
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Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:21 pm

I own numerous (and I do mean numerous) firearms and live in the Detroit area.


But why so many? How many thousands of roaving bands of hoodlums are roaming the streets of your town? Also, it makes sense that, in a state like Michigan, where the government can not even give it's citizens clean water, that the government does not even care about any of it's citizens, so you have to form your own government by force. The rest of us want to live in the United States, not a war zone. Maybe you all in Michigan should think about voting for someone else who will spend some money to make Michigan more like the United States and less like a third world nation.

Also, what about your rambling about "liberals" and minorities? You will have to explain that one. I know evangelical right wingers hate the idea of non-white and non-male and non-heteros having equal rights so....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3543
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
But why so many? How many thousands of roaving bands of hoodlums are roaming the streets of your town? Also, it makes sense that, in a state like Michigan, where the government can not even give it's citizens clean water, that the government does not even care about any of it's citizens, so you have to form your own government by force. The rest of us want to live in the United States, not a war zone. Maybe you all in Michigan should think about voting for someone else who will spend some money to make Michigan more like the United States and less like a third world nation.


Because I can, is simply the reason I use. I enjoy collecting, I enjoy shooting. You have no credibility, when you're statement is predicated on you thinking that the state of Michigan screwed up the water supply, it was 100% the fault of the city of Flint, but I'm not getting into that with you. I don't live in a war zone, you could come into my house as it is, and you've never know I own a gun, until I told you that I do.

There are a few states in the United States that have stopped being part of the country as far as I'm concerned, and it starts with the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.
From my cold, dead hands
 
sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:53 am

Religion is, essentially, irrelevant (there are exceptions, but they are outliers).

But what's missing in the analysis?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:25 am

Here's a study showing otherwise...

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE? A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE From the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy

Spoiler Alert: "The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world."
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:06 am

NoTime wrote:
Here's a study showing otherwise...

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE? A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE From the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy

Spoiler Alert: "The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world."

Spoiler alert! This garbage is on snopes.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

Re: Evidence Shows Gun Control Works

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:34 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Shall not be infringed. You want gun control, change the 2nd Amendment. Then come and take them...


How come i cant buy automatic weapons? Or modify to be fully automatic legally? 2nd amendment says I can bear arms. Something doesnt add up here.
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