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Revelation
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Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:29 pm

Let's not discuss the new site itself lest the thread ends up locked, but I'd like to discuss ad blockers.

It seems many complaints are about the ads being displayed all over the place. The complaints seem to be coming from people who have older computers and slower links.

Well, those folks are the ones who need ad blockers the most!

Is it safe to presume the ones with the slower computers and slower links are the less computer literate ones who aren't comfortable downloading ad blockers?

Or is it more about the 'social contract' where some feel they should look at the ads in exchange for using the site?

For me ad blocking is not at all unethical. The web industry has its tools, I have mine. Sooner or later ad blocking will be defeated, but then some other tool will probably be developed.

Bottom line, if you bury the content in ads, people will stop using the content so the ads will become worthless. The web industry can't seem to help itself, they're going to keep cramming ads down our throats till we all stop using the web. Somehow they can't see that coming.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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vhtje
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:01 pm

I have no problem with using Ad Blockers and thereby depriving websites of revenue.

Websites use nefarious and sneaky methods to target us such as looking through browsing history, our search history, even looking through contact databases and emails (hello LinkedIn and Facebook). The fact that they are so devious about it and hide what they do from us easily wipes any guilt I might have about depriving a site of revenue.

Furthermore, poorly designed websites that are so cluttered with ads that they are unreadable make good Ad Blocking software almost mandatory.

I have no problem supporting websites via a paid method if that made the site ad-free. I had been a First Class Member of this site for many years, and was happy to pay an annual fee to keep ads out of my view. Similarly I subscribe to the Guardian's website to keep it ad-free. Now that Airliners.net have decided to ditch paid memberships, I am left to rely on an Ad Blocker to keep this site bearable. Airliners.net loses as a result.

They really ought to rethink their strategy here.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
idlewild
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:08 pm

I pretty much paid to not have ads. As far as I know, my First Class Membership doesn't expire for quite awhile.
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:26 pm

I'm using Chrome. How do I get a hold of an ad blocker? Can anyone recommend one please. I'm done using a.net but the ad blocker will come in handy for other sites.

Thanks guys. Sad that one of my last posts on this site will be about blocking ads. I feel like I've lost a great friend.
 
airtran737
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:28 pm

idlewild wrote:
I pretty much paid to not have ads. As far as I know, my First Class Membership doesn't expire for quite awhile.


I feel the same way, yet here I am having to look at ads for PNC Bank and the GMC Terrain. Pisses me off. Why am I giving money to now have to look at ads?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Calder
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Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:35 pm

I've been using ad blockers for a long as I can remember on all my computers, and all my smartphones (generally through root and Xposed). I picked up a phone a couple years back (Note 4) and had to wait for root for a while.. I had forgotten how intrusive ads were. It was horrible.

Image

Ad block stats on the work computer lol
C. T.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:48 pm

idlewild wrote:
I pretty much paid to not have ads. As far as I know, my First Class Membership doesn't expire for quite awhile.


There are no longer any different types of membership at airliners.net. All members have free membership. Free membership = ads displayed.

I was a First Class member as well. I've installed AdBlock Plus to deal with the ads. I certainly have no issue using available technology to defeat the site's ads.

airtran737 wrote:
I feel the same way, yet here I am having to look at ads for PNC Bank and the GMC Terrain. Pisses me off. Why am I giving money to now have to look at ads?


See above. When was the last time you paid? Paid membership was stopped quite a few months ago.
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CPH-R
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:43 pm

It's worth noting that at least one of the major AdBlockers (which I use, no names mentioned), have a function whereby they will whitelist ads that agree to a set of norms and regulations.

There's an especially nasty new type of ad, that may look like a still image, but is in fact varying between displaying the still image and a video of said still image. Over time, this eats into a fair bit of system resources (not to mention bandwith). Here's some info about it: https://plus.google.com/+ArtemRussakovs ... jMWV7oCQpn - and a GIF showing what just a single ad does: https://gfycat.com/PositiveLateAlligator

And on a final note, with more and more sites blocking users employing AdBlockers, I've found Ghostery to be a godsend.
 
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falstaff
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:54 pm

airtran737 wrote:
yet here I am having to look at ads for PNC Bank and the GMC Terrain. Pisses me off


I get ads for Russian brides....

I would be happy to pay a reasonable fee to avoid the ads.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Chrome -- I use 'Adblock Plus' on Firefox and it's great. I did a google on 'chrome ad blocker' and it comes up as being available for Chrome.

Re: First Class Membership -- I guess we're all traveling in Ryanair Y now! :D

Re: Why I'm doing Re: instead of quoting -- I can't be arsed to compose multi-quoted text by hand.

falstaff wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
yet here I am having to look at ads for PNC Bank and the GMC Terrain. Pisses me off


I get ads for Russian brides....

I would be happy to pay a reasonable fee to avoid the ads.

Install an ad blocker and you'll get rid of the ads for free AND your pages will load much faster too, and send the pictures of the Russian babes to me! :D
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Ad Blockers

Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:41 pm

I've no trouble tuning out the online ads without blocking them.

It would be hypocritical of me to block those ads while at the same time be paid by my employer to craft out & put up those same ads online :D
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EA CO AS
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:03 am

Here's my take; the advertisers pay to put their ads on the site. My use of an ad-blocker doesn't remove the ads, it just keeps me from having to see them.

I feel it's no different than if I simply ignored them.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:33 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Here's my take; the advertisers pay to put their ads on the site. My use of an ad-blocker doesn't remove the ads, it just keeps me from having to see them.

I feel it's no different than if I simply ignored them.


That sounds logical, but in the technical domain it's false. The ad blocker literally detects the parts of the web page that would cause an ad to be downloaded and displayed and edits them out of the web page before it gets rendered by your browser, so yes, it removes ads.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/opini ... -wars.html makes for some very interesting reading on the "ad blocker wars". It's really starting to undermine the internet revenue model. Users say they have no choice because web site designers have made the ads so obnoxious. So see, we here on a.net are on the bleeding edge after all!

I'm sure we're going to see legislative attempts to remedy it since it's actually pretty difficult for the advertisers to defeat ad blockers. However not too many politicians are going to be very loud about saying they support internet ads. Also we're going to see more "nagging" from web sites to disable your ad blocker, or in many cases to flat out refuse to let you download a web page if you have an ad blocker turned on. That's fine, it's up to them to make their case that it's worth paying for their site and decide they don't want to serve the content if you don't pay.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:11 am

It's kind of trippy if you google "detect ad blocker" and read some of the tools web sites use to detect web blockers and "hide ad blocker" to see the tools developed to hide your ad blocker from the tools that detect ad browsers. There's a full scale arms war going on out there!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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HGL
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:39 am

Yes I too have installed AdBlock. It means that I don't download ads and my bandwidth isn't being consumed by things that I neither want nor need to see.

As others have mentioned, ad-blockers usually have a white list of sites that produce "responsible" adverts, by which I guess they mean less in-your-space screen grabbers and animations. But advertisers pay to get on to the white-list so over time there is a risk that the value of ad-blockers becomes reduced. This is an issue quite apart from serious attempts by developers to circumvent them in the first place.

For website owners it is a difficult problem. On the one hand they wish to increase exposure and to cover their costs they seek advertising revenue. Yet the cost of advertising has fallen dramatically. So they are tempted to host yet more advertising. This can have the effect of reducing readers and therefore revenues based on pay per view/ click.

Some web owners have experimented with a combination of free, ad-based paged and paid, ad-free pages but it becomes difficult to determine a price that isn't too high to drive paying subscribers away.

Airliners tried a combination approach and I guess this has been dropped because the cost of administering a paid membership outweighed the benefits of providing an ad-free experience. I say I am guessing because I have no hard figures as to the comparison between those who had paid a one-off fee and those who paid an annual membership. I suspect the latter were in a minority.
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EA CO AS
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:44 am

Revelation wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Here's my take; the advertisers pay to put their ads on the site. My use of an ad-blocker doesn't remove the ads, it just keeps me from having to see them.

I feel it's no different than if I simply ignored them.


That sounds logical, but in the technical domain it's false. The ad blocker literally detects the parts of the web page that would cause an ad to be downloaded and displayed and edits them out of the web page before it gets rendered by your browser, so yes, it removes ads.


While I understand your point, I specifically stated that the ad company pays to have their ads hosted on the site, and that hasn't changed. What's changed is I'm finding a way to ensure that ad never reaches my eyes, not stopping them from reaching others.

And as someone who gladly paid for First Class membership here, I would gladly pay for an ad-free experience if one were offered. But since I can't, and since I don't want ads for Russian mail-order brides or whatever popping up on my screen as I try to engage other like-minded individuals about civil aviation, I now have no choice but to use an ad-blocker.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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hufftheweevil
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:36 am

AdMuncher. That's it. Get it. It's that simple.

I've used it for over 15 years, and I've been viewing an Internet unlike everyone else. To this day, I don't understand how it's remained such a secret for so long.

I've never seen a single ad on Anet, let alone any other site, in YEARS. And I never paid for a FC membership.
Huff
 
sudden
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:04 am

Easiest way to get rid of ads, as already mentioned, is to install AdBlock Plus. Works like a charm and I have been using it for 2 years now. I have no issue with ads on Anet as they are blocked out.
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scbriml
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:14 am

EA CO AS wrote:
And as someone who gladly paid for First Class membership here, I would gladly pay for an ad-free experience if one were offered. But since I can't, and since I don't want ads for Russian mail-order brides or whatever popping up on my screen as I try to engage other like-minded individuals about civil aviation, I now have no choice but to use an ad-blocker.


Pretty much my take as well.

I was more than willing to pay DM for ad-free access to the site. Since they decided, without any discussion, to force ads on me, I decided to do what I could to stop them. At the moment it's working great.

In fact, as a photographer with over 4,000 photos here, it's doubly annoying that I help to bring people to the site yet DM felt they could just foist ads on me without so much as a 'by your leave...' :twisted:
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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moo
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:58 am

There is actually an extremely good reason to block ads these days - there have been several high profile instances of the main ad networks serving up ad's laden with spyware or malware, which use exploits in your browser to gain access to your computer (just like all other viruses). Websites which display ads through these networks have no control over whether this happens (they are literally handing control over what is being displayed to a third party), so we end up with high profile sites such as the NY Times, the BBC et al.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... lvertising

Block ads - they are a security menace in this day and age. Sites need to find another revenue source, and they won't do that until ads become useless as one - this website had a good usebase, many of whom were paying not to be served ads, so its not as if the argument can be made that the users wont pay...
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:25 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
While I understand your point, I specifically stated that the ad company pays to have their ads hosted on the site, and that hasn't changed. What's changed is I'm finding a way to ensure that ad never reaches my eyes, not stopping them from reaching others.

And as someone who gladly paid for First Class membership here, I would gladly pay for an ad-free experience if one were offered. But since I can't, and since I don't want ads for Russian mail-order brides or whatever popping up on my screen as I try to engage other like-minded individuals about civil aviation, I now have no choice but to use an ad-blocker.

I think it works a bit differently. The content provider embeds code in the web page that figures out a lot about you and it sends a request to the ad server which responds with the ad content. Each time this happens the content provider gets some tiny amount of payment for the ad. Yet the ad blocker is blocking the request/response. To the ad server you don't exist. This is why ad blockers do change things. Ad blockers remove the opportunity for the content provider to monetize your visit.

As noted above the ad blockers are beginning to allow through some ads based on their business relationship and their standards about obtrusiveness. This drives the ad industry nuts. To them the ad blocker becomes a middleman that can hold the ad industry hostage to demands for ransom. The ad men do have a fair point, but that ignores their own culpability in this whole mess.

The NYT article points out now that various mobile networks are deploying ad blockers on the edges of their own networks that let them rewrite the content as it flows by so they now can hold the ad industry AND the content providers hostage at the same time. For instance TMobile can decide a.net users on their service will see zero ads so a.net will get zero ad income from these users. Or they can make an agreement with Airbus that every ad an a.net user will see will be from Airbus. It's an incredibly powerful position they can leverage. The ethics of rewriting the stream are hotly debated.

So I think we need to consider ad blockers do change things in a fundamental way, but to me it's just the user community catching up with ad industry. The ad industry in general does its best to hide the amount of stuff it knows about you and how it obtains it. IMHO they've played extremely unfairly. Had they played more fairly there'd be less interest in ad blockers.

I understand your points about first class membership. I never participated in it so I'm not one of the people missing it.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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cjg225
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Re: Ad Blockers

Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
It's kind of trippy if you google "detect ad blocker" and read some of the tools web sites use to detect web blockers and "hide ad blocker" to see the tools developed to hide your ad blocker from the tools that detect ad browsers. There's a full scale arms war going on out there!

Yeah, I noticed those stark to become common recently. A bunch of sites I frequent that used to be ad-free now are blocking access to people they detect are using AdBlockers. Forbes is like that, for example. Others try to guilt-trip you about it, but still let you see the content.
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:32 am

I view ad-blockers as condoms. You are free to use them, or not, depending on your preference. :)
 
Gemuser
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:43 pm

Revelation wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Here's my take; the advertisers pay to put their ads on the site. My use of an ad-blocker doesn't remove the ads, it just keeps me from having to see them.

I feel it's no different than if I simply ignored them.


That sounds logical, but in the technical domain it's false. The ad blocker literally detects the parts of the web page that would cause an ad to be downloaded and displayed and edits them out of the web page before it gets rendered by your browser, so yes, it removes ads.


It's not false. The web page you see is downloaded to your memory/storage, it is this page that is changed, NOT the original! What you do with the page on YOUR machine is your business. Of course if you distribute the modified web page that is another matter.

Gemuser
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:56 pm

It is true that you can and should be able to do what you want to do with the page once you download it.

It is not true that using an ad blocker is no different than simply ignoring the ad.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:05 pm

I'm also one of those people who can't live without an adblocker. Besides Adblock Plus I'm also using Ghostery, blocking all kind of nasty tracking scripts that follow my web surfing behaviour. Here on Airliners.net Ghostery has found 5 of such scripts, none of them work because Ghostery stopped them.

I wouldn't need an adblocker if there would only have been a small amount of ads, that wouldn't bother me. But the quantity of ads on some sites these days, including Airliners.net, is just too much. With so many ads you just need an adblocker. Sorry for those sites that rely on ads, if you would limit the number of them I would happily view them but because you don't limit them I won't view them.

Indeed, there are sites that won't give you access when you're using an adblocker. Pity for them since they won't have me as a visitor. If everyone would think like me they would have no visitors at all. If they want visitors they have to change their policy. I won't change mine.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
It is not true that using an ad blocker is no different than simply ignoring the ad.

Sorry, could you explain the practical difference between having YOUR software removing ads from Your copy of the page before it is rendered by YOUR other software and just ignoring it?

Gemuser
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:53 pm

Gemuser wrote:
Sorry, could you explain the practical difference between having YOUR software removing ads from Your copy of the page before it is rendered by YOUR other software and just ignoring it?
The difference is if the ad is present and ignored then the request/response (actually several request/response pairs) used to generate the ad does happen and the content provider does gets credit. If the ad blocker removes the code that makes these request/response pairs then the content provider gets no credit. The ad isn't generated by the content provider, the code to dynamically fetch the ad is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/opini ... -wars.html describes it thusly:
...they realized, more than most, the commotion going on behind the scenes the moment you direct your browser to a website. As many as 100 companies might be alerted, thus setting off a digital scrum as marketing and tracking entities elbow one another to figure out, based on your past online activity, whether you’d be more likely to click on an ad to say, lose weight, refinance your mortgage or improve your sexual potency.

The goal is to make an “impression” (industry lingo for when an ad appears on the page you’re viewing), and publishers get paid when they allow advertisers the privilege. Advertisers get paid by brands and trackers get paid by, well, everybody. All this is automated and happens in seconds, sometimes milliseconds.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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moo
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:51 pm

Gemuser wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It is not true that using an ad blocker is no different than simply ignoring the ad.

Sorry, could you explain the practical difference between having YOUR software removing ads from Your copy of the page before it is rendered by YOUR other software and just ignoring it?

Gemuser


This is this page as served by A.net - notice the placeholders for the ads, they are empty:

Image

The page then attempts to load the following scripts, which are what populate the above ad placeholders:

Image

This is the resulting total traffic that happens when ads are enabled:

Image

Note the total page size of 1.6MB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 209. Note the finish time, 56 seconds.

Now we disable ads:

Image

Note the total page size of 843KB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 71. Note the finish time, 4.27 seconds.

Why are these so different?

Because the ad blocker prevents the adverts from loading at all:

Image

Using an ad blocker reduces page sizes massive, reduces the number of requests your browser needs to make, which reduces the amount of traffic going over your internet line. This means pages are quicker.

And this is all without taking into account the security issues of viewing ads, as I posted about earlier.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:58 pm

moo wrote:
Note the total page size of 1.6MB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 209. Note the finish time, 56 seconds.

Now we disable ads:

Note the total page size of 843KB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 71. Note the finish time, 4.27 seconds.


Very interesting. What are you using to gather those stats?

In my case I've used NoScript for years now so the javascript in general doesn't run.

Another thing I've done on my current computer is refused to install Flash. There's enough web sites now that don't use Flash (presumably due to Apple refusing to support Flash, credit where credit is due) and I'm glad to bypass sites that still insist on Flash, IE/ActiveX too.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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moo
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
moo wrote:
Note the total page size of 1.6MB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 209. Note the finish time, 56 seconds.

Now we disable ads:

Note the total page size of 843KB which is sent to your computer. Note the total number of requests, 71. Note the finish time, 4.27 seconds.


Very interesting. What are you using to gather those stats?

In my case I've used NoScript for years now so the javascript in general doesn't run.

Another thing I've done on my current computer is refused to install Flash. There's enough web sites now that don't use Flash (presumably due to Apple refusing to support Flash, credit where credit is due) and I'm glad to bypass sites that still insist on Flash, IE/ActiveX too.


Im using the Chrome developer tools, specifically the network tab with all caching turned off (ads are never cached, so I wanted a true representation of the size of the rest of the page).
 
seat64k
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
Is it safe to presume the ones with the slower computers and slower links are the less computer literate ones who aren't comfortable downloading ad blockers?


No, it is not. I run a quad core i7 with 16GB RAM, a beefy graphics card and a high-end SSD. Nevertheless, I still find that some sites will max out my CPU and make my browser slow to the point of being unusable. So a good ad-blocker is a necessity, particularly in a multi-tasking environment where my a.net browsing is usually while taking a break from the 50 other things I have going on on my computer.

That said, since I run my own blog and work in internet hosting, I'm keenly aware of the cost of keeping a popular site on-line, and the challenges involved in raising that money if you're not charging for continued usage.

So this puts me in somewhat of a predicament. The best I can do is use an ad-blocker that allows me to white-list sites that I frequent and want to support, provided their ads don't abuse my computing resources.
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Ad Blockers

Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:40 pm

First of all, as others have said, blocking ads is not the same as ignoring them.

The way the web works, is that when you click a link, you request a web page. This is a text based file that is downloaded, containing all the text to be shown on the page. This file then also contains links to various elements - a style sheet describing how the page should be formatted, any images to be displayed, and any adverts to be displayed.

After downloading the web page, your browser then reads this file, and goes off and makes a few more requests, downloading each of the described elements in turn.

What ad blocker software does, is remove any of the references to any element that is deemed to be an advert. This can be seen in the screenshot posted previously.

So when you use an ad blocker, you are no longer requesting the ads to be loaded. Each time an advert is requested, it is recorded by the advertising networks, and is called "impressions" in their lingo. One ad view = one impression. As the ad blocker prevents the request taking place, this reduces the number of impressions for the publishers website.

Now, there are 3 ways in which advertisers pay publishers such as a.net. They are as follows:

1 - Pay Per Click (PPC)
Pay-per-click is the most common, particularly amongst smaller websites. As most people have learned to ignore adverts, those adverts have become less effective, and therefore advertisers are reluctant to pay to have them placed on your site. Instead, they only pay out once someone actually clicks on the advert.

Using an ad-blocker to block these out is similar to just ignoring them. As you haven't clicked on them, the publisher makes no revenue for them.

However, often times ad publishers will pay out higher fees per clicks for high profile sites - these are determined by the number of impressions made on the site. It may also affect any deals the advertising platform choose to do with the publisher in future (see 3)

2 - Pay-Per-Impression (PPI)
This is more common on higher profile sites, or sites where the audience directly relates to the content of the ad.

Here, the publisher is paid for every time an ad is viewed. If you are using an ad blocker, the view is not recorded, and as such the publisher is not paid. Here, you are directly robbing the publisher of money by using an ad blocker.

3 - Sponsorship
Sometimes, a particular advertiser will pay a fixed fee to a publisher in order to feature a very prominent ad, or band the site in a particular way. This only happens on some of the most high profile sites - I haven't noticed this happening on a.net.

This fee is normally worked out based on the amount of traffic to the website - they may pay based on the figure a.net quote for number of visitors, or they may pay based on their past impression count, in which case using an ad blocker could be devaluing the revenue received for the ads.

It's worth pointing out that the publisher doesn't choose whether to use PPC or PPI - the ads are served dynamically based on what the ad network feels the current visitor will respond best to - one user might get a PPC ad, while another visiting at the same time may get a PPI advert.
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 814
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

Re:

Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:07 am

Calder wrote:
I've been using ad blockers for a long as I can remember on all my computers, and all my smartphones (generally through root and Xposed). I picked up a phone a couple years back (Note 4) and had to wait for root for a while.. I had forgotten how intrusive ads were. It was horrible.

Image

Ad block stats on the work computer lol



Firefox for Android has adblock without needing root. Also, the night mode is really helping to make a.net readable without eyestrain.
 
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airkas1
Head Screener
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:33 am

There is talk that the First Class experience (so without ads) will return. Unfortuantely this might take some time, as it's not an easy fix and is of relative low priority consdiering the other issues that need to be dealt with. Just wanted to have mentioned it.
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3780
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:44 pm

airkas1 wrote:
There is talk that the First Class experience (so without ads) will return. Unfortuantely this might take some time, as it's not an easy fix and is of relative low priority consdiering the other issues that need to be dealt with. Just wanted to have mentioned it.


Why pay money to a terrible company who manipulates users and visitors when you can use an adblocker for free?
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:24 pm

airkas1 wrote:
There is talk that the First Class experience (so without ads) will return. Unfortuantely this might take some time, as it's not an easy fix and is of relative low priority consdiering the other issues that need to be dealt with. Just wanted to have mentioned it.


Until that's an option, my use of an ad-blocker will happily continue.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
4holer
Posts: 2771
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:34 pm

I'd love to use an ab blocker at home, but I have Edge, so Ad Block does not yet work...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10593
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:38 pm

This topic is naturally a huge discussion point in the online advertising industry.

I am of the opinion that online advertising is necessary to support the internet, which is not free to run. People here are complaining that it uses their bandwidth or data, whilst being happy to use the bandwidth and infrastructure of websites like this for free by blocking ads. That's pretty hypocritical if you ask me, there is even a question as to whether it is theft.

However I can see how this situation has come about. Some ad formats are really very annoying and, whilst the major exchanges ban these, there are still smaller networks and exchanges which are prepared to carry on serving these. There needs to be a a memorandum of understanding in the industry that this needs to change if user perceptions are to change to stop using adblocking software.

Relevancy can also help. Make adverts relevant to a user and it becomes less annoying. Advertisers have the power to do this already, but it takes a while for them to all to catch up.

CPH-R wrote:
It's worth noting that at least one of the major AdBlockers (which I use, no names mentioned), have a function whereby they will whitelist ads that agree to a set of norms and regulations.


All the well known adblocking companies do this, and the selection process is as simple as 'are you going to pay us?'. They are tantamount to the Mafia in the way they operate and are attracting a huge raft of VC capital to do so. What does this mean... well you'll be seeing a lot more ads, because that capital needs ROI.

moo wrote:
There is actually an extremely good reason to block ads these days - there have been several high profile instances of the main ad networks serving up ad's laden with spyware or malware, which use exploits in your browser to gain access to your computer (just like all other viruses). Websites which display ads through these networks have no control over whether this happens (they are literally handing control over what is being displayed to a third party), so we end up with high profile sites such as the NY Times, the BBC et al.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... lvertising

Block ads - they are a security menace in this day and age. Sites need to find another revenue source, and they won't do that until ads become useless as one - this website had a good usebase, many of whom were paying not to be served ads, so its not as if the argument can be made that the users wont pay...


This isn't remotely a serious threat, adnetworks are responsible for a fraction of online inventory anyway and the true major online adexchanges (not networks) have numerous checks in place to prevent this.

And anyway, adblocking doesn't block all ads. It only blocks ads from those who are not prepared to pay to have the block lifted.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I'm also one of those people who can't live without an adblocker. Besides Adblock Plus I'm also using Ghostery, blocking all kind of nasty tracking scripts that follow my web surfing behaviour. Here on Airliners.net Ghostery has found 5 of such scripts, none of them work because Ghostery stopped them.


What Ghostery picks up is mainly third party optimisation tools. This isn't what's looking at 'you' as a user - it's the data pass-back relating to each opportunity to serve you an advert which does that. If you want to stop it, close your browser.

nighthawk wrote:
Now, there are 3 ways in which advertisers pay publishers such as a.net. They are as follows:

1 - Pay Per Click (PPC)
Pay-per-click is the most common, particularly amongst smaller websites. As most people have learned to ignore adverts, those adverts have become less effective, and therefore advertisers are reluctant to pay to have them placed on your site. Instead, they only pay out once someone actually clicks on the advert.

Using an ad-blocker to block these out is similar to just ignoring them. As you haven't clicked on them, the publisher makes no revenue for them.

However, often times ad publishers will pay out higher fees per clicks for high profile sites - these are determined by the number of impressions made on the site. It may also affect any deals the advertising platform choose to do with the publisher in future (see 3)

2 - Pay-Per-Impression (PPI)
This is more common on higher profile sites, or sites where the audience directly relates to the content of the ad.

Here, the publisher is paid for every time an ad is viewed. If you are using an ad blocker, the view is not recorded, and as such the publisher is not paid. Here, you are directly robbing the publisher of money by using an ad blocker.

3 - Sponsorship
Sometimes, a particular advertiser will pay a fixed fee to a publisher in order to feature a very prominent ad, or band the site in a particular way. This only happens on some of the most high profile sites - I haven't noticed this happening on a.net.

This fee is normally worked out based on the amount of traffic to the website - they may pay based on the figure a.net quote for number of visitors, or they may pay based on their past impression count, in which case using an ad blocker could be devaluing the revenue received for the ads.


PPC/CPC is practically dead these days as a primary strategy because it's so open to click fraud from bot-traffic, which is something the industry still hasn't fully got a grip on.

PPI is a very unusual term to use, I think what you are looking for is CPM - cost per thousand impressions. This is the basis on which practically every single display advertising impression is served, on all sites, not just those high profile publishers. Although the publisher is only not paid if a pre/post bid viewability partner is being used to detect this - you'd be surprised how many aren't viewed and anyway, the iab's definition of viewable is pretty laughable - 50% of the pixels for 1 second, that's a 'view' unless the advertiser/agency has their own metric, but that's rare.

Sponsorship or home page takeovers are really rare too these days, and even so it is usually on a CPM basis - just a very high one. To give an idea, if you want to appear prominently on the FT, the bid floor price is going to be £40 CPM+. Advertorials are now popular instead, partly because native content is the current darling of the industry, where the publisher guarantees a number of unique 'engagements' and 'engagers' reaching the advertiser website.


Dan 8-)
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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nighthawk
Posts: 4860
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:33 am

Re: Ad Blockers

Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:20 am

PPC/CPC is practically dead these days as a primary strategy because it's so open to click fraud from bot-traffic, which is something the industry still hasn't fully got a grip on.

PPC/CPC is nowhere near dead! On google ad platforms, it is number one by a long shot! Google are very good at weeding out click fraud.

PPI is a very unusual term to use, I think what you are looking for is CPM - cost per thousand impressions. This is the basis on which practically every single display advertising impression is served, on all sites, not just those high profile publishers.

No it isn't. The vast majority of adverts served by Google Ads are PPC/CPC.
 
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Airshipcenter
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Ad Blockers

Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:43 pm

I own a forum myself (link in sign.) and I adhere principle I call "ethical ad placement."
I very much realize that annoying ad placement leads to increasing usage of adblockers and this is bad for small providers like me.

Adblock would never have been needed if ad-providers simply adhered ethical ad placement. Sadly many don't care about user experience and simply want cash quick.

But I can wholly understand why members would use adblock if ads are all over the place. I only have 2 ads on my site, one in the header, one in the footer, and these are only visible on forum pages. For me, having 4 ads on a single page is just too much.

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