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lesfalls
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why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:25 am

I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harrased but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).
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coolian2
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:28 am

Because white people who are Christians are to blame for everything.




The most unreasonable victim mentality ever. Get effed.
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jpetekyxmd80
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:35 am

What kind of question is that?
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coolian2
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:42 am

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
What kind of question is that?

A moronic one.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:55 am

funny, i was trying to figure out why Donald Trump thinks Muslim are bad. Do you think the article you read was in the Onion to make people look at things differently, by giving Christian a dose of what Trump is doing to muslin in this country? Divide and Conquer techniques are just that techniques. You shouldn't buy in to them. If you do, then you are using your brain.

i am also Catholic, my dad's Jewish, and many of my friends growing up were surprised that my dad was such a good guy. I don't know what they though that. It always bothered me. but since they were children, i'm sure it was passed on to them from their parents. They were never allowed to sleep over at my house. Anyway, there are a lot of hateful people on the internet, and people really need to start using the back button, instead of getting sucked into their limited world views. It can and has distorted reality and only breeds hate.
 
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:59 am

how do you edit these post. i have some typo's cause from me not seeing very well. i need to correct.
 
luckyone
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:00 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harrased but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).

For starters I identify as Christian.
1. Christianity is the predominant religion in the United States, and has been for many years in one way, shape, or form (the fact that this form has significantly morphed over the years is lost on many people).
2. Many of the people who have called the shots identify with Christianity--which in and of itself is not a problem.
3. The loudest Christians are also usually the most hypocritical Christians.
4. There is a significant group of people within that movement who believe in Christian privilege. Until something goes wrong, then they shouldn't get blamed for the ramifications of their decisions.
5. A lot of pastors make bank selling people the idea that Christians are persecuted, which takes us back to Nos. 3 and 4, that if more Christians called the shots, things would be better.
6. Christians aren't legally isolated and marginalized by Christians.
7. Christians are not persecuted simply for being Christians. If they are "persecuted" it's because of their behavior.
8. You choose to be Christian, yet many Christians believe their choice should make them superior than those to whom they feel superior (usually people who do NOT have a choice).
Last edited by luckyone on Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:01 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continuously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harassed but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).


I don't think many are. It's probably from some far left wing site that wants to say something to get hits. When something like this happens you see a lot of the same articles and the ones that stand out are the ones that say "we are the real terrorists". Most sane people know that for all the problems christians have know that gays aren't being executed and murdered in christian nations and christians nations are some of the most progressive tolerant places on earth. Minus some african nations but that's got nothing to do with religion.
 
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:17 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
how do you edit these post. i have some typo's cause from me not seeing very well. i need to correct.


In the top right hand corner of your post their are two little icons. Click the first icon, it will give you two choices, one is to edit your post

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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:49 am

Perhaps the OP should post a link to the alleged article he read.
 
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Revelation
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:02 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harrased but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).


I don't know, let's start with the Crusades and work our way forward, shall we? :D

It's pretty simple: most Christians don't even understand Christianity. They don't understand there's really only one thing Christ taught, "Love each other as I have loved you". Those that do understand this don't come very close to practicing it (just like me, especially here on a.net!).

In reality, whether they know it or not, to most Christians, Christianity is just a brand that they've embraced. They feel better because they can call themselves Christians and they feel better because they can call their friends Christians. It's just like other brands such as Conservatism, except that Christianity actually is better defined if less adhered to. If they go to church at all, they go for an hour or two and feel a bit of guilt and a bit of pride and then leave and forget it all till the next time they go to church.

That's my $0.02,
Rev.
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:08 am

There could be many reasons why some people think that Christians are bad.

1) Historically the established church's attitude to women has been hostile. The idea that a woman is subordinate to man, she could not rise to the position of priest, let alone bishop. In the church's eyes she did not have the right to control her own fertility and if she were abused and abandoned by a man, she was a fallen woman, "shameful" and would often have her child taken from her at birth. The motivation may have been the best interests of the child but the policy was often carried out in an inhumane and brutal fashion. For many women this has produced a lasting sense of loss and guilt.

2) People who are gay have until recently found very little support from Christians, particularly from established churches. There are some sects that are still fundamentally opposed to homosexual relationships, let alone marriage. In parts of Africa Christians have been successful in pushing for changes to the laws regarding homosexuality resulting in it being an offence not only to engage in homosexual acts but not to report someone who you think might be.

3) The history of child abuse in religious establishments is now well known yet the response of many church organisations over the years has been to deny, protect the person committing the abuse and above all the reputation of the organisation. I recall an Anglican Archbishop who became Governor General of Australia who once defended a priest who had abused a girl by suggesting that the girl had led him on. In the ensuing furore the Governor General was forced to step down

4) In Europe Christians were often in the forefront of pogroms against Jews and breaking down of aboriginal cultures elsewhere. In Australia for example, Christian missionaries separated children from their parents believing that the parents could not be "brought to civilisation" and worse, would hold their children back. The effects of this (no doubt well-intended) policy has contributed to the breakdown of many communities and their consequent social problems.

But of course not all Christians belong to those churches, nor do they all share those views. Many, indeed I would say most, are decent people who probably wish that we could all get along. But it would be naive to believe that there aren't some who are fiercely judgemental and as is often the case, the whole get judged by the minority. Reality is that Christians are just people like anyone else and there is good and bad in all groups
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zkojq
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:44 am

A few ideas:

1)The mainstream media is generally secular and usually holds and promotes anti-religious views. Christianity has for whatever reason become unfashionable in the eyes of many (unlike Buddhism, which seems to be very 'in' for some reason). The media is always hesitant at best to report on positive actions taken by Christians.

2) A lot of the hostility probably comes from people's objection to 'the church' and some of its actions. The Fallacy here being that there is no one 'church', other than in an earthly sense. The Catholic Church has indeed done an awful lot of evil things over its many hundreds of years, but it's hardly fair to judge one person on the actions of a church so large (more than a billion people).

3) Society today seems to have quite a strong dislike of moral absolutism. Any choice you make is ok as long as you had good intentions, right? The thought that there might actually be hard rules and standards is quite contrary to many people's beliefs.

4) Education. A worrying number of Westerners couldn't tell the difference (probably don't even know there is a difference, let's be honest) between a Catholic/ Lutheran/Methodist/Coptic or the Orthodox. Thus they're more likely to group all Christians together and judge them collectively. And when they do judge them, it will be by the lowest denominator (this one happens to Muslims quite a bit too). Never underestimate people's power to be reductionistic.

Personally, I think it's silly to paint any large religious/racial/national/ethnic group with a broad brush, but that's just me. ;)
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MaverickM11
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:52 am

Uhh...maybe read the history on christians and especially catholics in general, and on gay rights specifically, over the last few decades and it'll make your hair curl. Or if you're a member of the christian right, you'll continue to ignore it and live blissfully unaware of the damage you've done and continue to do.
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coolian2
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:34 am

zkojq wrote:


Personally, I think it's silly to paint any large religious/racial/national/ethnic group with a broad brush, but that's just me. ;)


This is about the only part of your post I agree with.

It's that it's a great, yet ironic point.
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:04 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks.


What article?

Unless you can tell us what article it is or where it came from, I'll call this thread a senseless, baseless firestarter...
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:39 am

The ones who constantly moan and complain that Christians are under attack are the same people who legislate against everyone else. Christians say they are persecuted but they are doing the persecuting.
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Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:47 am

Revelation wrote:
It's pretty simple: most Christians don't even understand Christianity. They don't understand there's really only one thing Christ taught, "Love each other as I have loved you". Those that do understand this don't come very close to practicing it (just like me, especially here on a.net!).

In reality, whether they know it or not, to most Christians, Christianity is just a brand that they've embraced. They feel better because they can call themselves Christians and they feel better because they can call their friends Christians. It's just like other brands such as Conservatism, except that Christianity actually is better defined if less adhered to. If they go to church at all, they go for an hour or two and feel a bit of guilt and a bit of pride and then leave and forget it all till the next time they go to church.

That's my $0.02,
Rev.

Good evening,

The commandment of which you refer is regarded as the second of the two greatest commandments. Paraphrased, the first is "Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul" and the second is "Love your neighbor as yourself." There was some video by 'Buzzfeed' about their version of Christianity that omitted the first, among other things.

And no, I am not a Christian because I want to "feel good."

That is all.
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SpaceDiva
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:04 am

I am an atheist and I do not consider Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim or any other religion "bad" I just choose to not follow any church or any religion. This does not mean I have to limit my friends to those "who believe what I believe in" because I do not believe in anything. Therefore, it is not a violation of my belief system to marry, date or befriend any person of any religion. I can't go to "atheist hell" if I date someone who goes to church, yet somehow if they date me, their religion claims this is wrong. I can also have friends of any faith and this has zero impact on my beliefs, yet many religious people pull away the minute I mention I am not religious and ASSUME i am out to hate them or discredit their religion. This is not the case. So who is really discriminating here? I find more religious people discriminate against those who are not religious.

Most of the time when I encounter problems over my beliefs, the problem is with some religious person who thinks they have the right to tell me what to believe in. Meanwhile, I have never tried to "convert" anyone, share my "message" with anyone, or force atheism on anyone else. There is no rule in my belief system that I must share or convince anyone of something I believe does not exist. If I spread the word of atheism, there is no "reward" waiting for me or any deity who will favor me above other human beings for doing so.

The problem I encounter at times, is from religious people who will automatically assume I have less morals, less values or less reason to be a good person just because I choose to not believe what 3000 year old books have to say. It is my right to believe whatever I want. I let other people have that right too. I also do not judge their morals or character based on which god they believe or do not believe in. There is nothing in my belief saying that discrimination or prejudice is good. Yet, open any religious book and you will here a lot about how "evil" non-believers are and how bad other religions are. I do not automatically consider anyone "bad" until I know them well enough to determine this.

I would never assume that any person of any religion is a bad person based solely on they type of church they go to. I would just call them an "annoying person" if they choose to push their beliefs on me, after I nicely explain that I am not religious. I was not raised religious but my parents believed in letting me think for myself, so I was allowed to go to any church I wanted to. I went to just about every church imaginable over the years and just decided in the end that none of them were for me. I got a lot more out of learning about science, space and fossils.

If any religious person wants to judge me for this choice, they are free to do so...but I would encourage them to look a bit harder at their own religion, especially the parts that tell you not to judge others. This is great advice. I can take this advice without having to believe the whole religion. I wish other people could too. I also wish that more religious people realized that atheists are not "evil" or bad people with no moral compass. Quite the opposite in fact. I care very much about people, my community and the well being of the planet as a whole. I also wish that more religious people realized that atheists do NOT hate religion or religious people. Many of us just choose to not have religion in our lives and that should be okay...Just as it is okay with me if people want to go to church. It just was never my thing.

So to all Christians and religious people: Please do not assume that non-religious people consider you "bad" instead maybe take the time to ask us "How do you feel about my religion and why?" and be open to the answers. You do not have to change your beliefs for anyone else but if you do believe in a "god" then that god probably wants you to learn, to be kind and to love other people. That is not wrong in any religion that I know of and love and kindness are a huge part of any religion or spiritual belief system. So why not believe in love and kindness and leave religion out of it?

Start with opening your heart to other human beings, not judging them and allowing them to be free to have their own beliefs just as you are free to have yours. Everyone wants to be respected and be free to make their own choices about what to believe in. So maybe if we all start respecting one another as human beings, we can get past this need to discriminate based on things like race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
 
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:21 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
how do you edit these post. i have some typo's cause from me not seeing very well. i need to correct.


Click the 'cog' button on you own post. It gives you the option to edit.
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Aobadiah1
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:49 am

What is a Christian? A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD and was sent to save the World from their Sins and that person Accepts Jesus Christ as his/hers Lord and Savior. A true Christian believes in and LIVES by the 10 Commandments as given to Moses by GOD. There are an untold number of religious deity's in the world today, some subscribe to the 10 Commandments some do not. A very large percentage of these religions believe there is but one and the same GOD, the smaller percentage believes that theirs is the one and only God.

I am a Christian! I have friends/acquaintances who are not Christian, you pick the religion and I have them as a friend or have met them. I may disagree with their religious views and they mine, but we certainly do not hate each other, (I hope). I have very close friends who are members of the LGBT community, I strongly disagree with their lifestyle, but I still love them as a friend, and this goes for those who are of a religion different from Christianity.

The powers that be that are removing all references to God from public locations, I believe, are the ones who are the blame for the growing mistrust and hatred between religions and the none religious individuals.

I guess I could go on and on, but I will close with I Love You All no matter who/what you are.
Last edited by Aobadiah1 on Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:58 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harrased but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).

I should also add that since you shared your Catholic faith, that where I grew up, it was a commonly-held belief that Catholics aren't real Christians, and will go to hell unless they are repentant and accept real salvation. So the squabble starts on home turf.
 
coolian2
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:06 pm

Coincidentally, I know a lot of people who go on and on about "Christian values".

Knowing these people the way I do, I live more "Christian values" in a day than they could in a year.

Signed,
Agnostic (but open to any truth, but I won't know until I die)
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:24 pm

SpaceDiva wrote:
I am an atheist and I do not consider Christians, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim or any other religion "bad" I just choose to not follow any church or any religion. This does not mean I have to limit my friends to those "who believe what I believe in" because I do not believe in anything. Therefore, it is not a violation of my belief system to marry, date or befriend any person of any religion. I can't go to "atheist hell" if I date someone who goes to church, yet somehow if they date me, their religion claims this is wrong. I can also have friends of any faith and this has zero impact on my beliefs, yet many religious people pull away the minute I mention I am not religious and ASSUME i am out to hate them or discredit their religion. This is not the case. So who is really discriminating here? I find more religious people discriminate against those who are not religious.

Most of the time when I encounter problems over my beliefs, the problem is with some religious person who thinks they have the right to tell me what to believe in. Meanwhile, I have never tried to "convert" anyone, share my "message" with anyone, or force atheism on anyone else. There is no rule in my belief system that I must share or convince anyone of something I believe does not exist. If I spread the word of atheism, there is no "reward" waiting for me or any deity who will favor me above other human beings for doing so.

The problem I encounter at times, is from religious people who will automatically assume I have less morals, less values or less reason to be a good person just because I choose to not believe what 3000 year old books have to say. It is my right to believe whatever I want. I let other people have that right too. I also do not judge their morals or character based on which god they believe or do not believe in. There is nothing in my belief saying that discrimination or prejudice is good. Yet, open any religious book and you will here a lot about how "evil" non-believers are and how bad other religions are. I do not automatically consider anyone "bad" until I know them well enough to determine this.

I would never assume that any person of any religion is a bad person based solely on they type of church they go to. I would just call them an "annoying person" if they choose to push their beliefs on me, after I nicely explain that I am not religious. I was not raised religious but my parents believed in letting me think for myself, so I was allowed to go to any church I wanted to. I went to just about every church imaginable over the years and just decided in the end that none of them were for me. I got a lot more out of learning about science, space and fossils.

If any religious person wants to judge me for this choice, they are free to do so...but I would encourage them to look a bit harder at their own religion, especially the parts that tell you not to judge others. This is great advice. I can take this advice without having to believe the whole religion. I wish other people could too. I also wish that more religious people realized that atheists are not "evil" or bad people with no moral compass. Quite the opposite in fact. I care very much about people, my community and the well being of the planet as a whole. I also wish that more religious people realized that atheists do NOT hate religion or religious people. Many of us just choose to not have religion in our lives and that should be okay...Just as it is okay with me if people want to go to church. It just was never my thing.

So to all Christians and religious people: Please do not assume that non-religious people consider you "bad" instead maybe take the time to ask us "How do you feel about my religion and why?" and be open to the answers. You do not have to change your beliefs for anyone else but if you do believe in a "god" then that god probably wants you to learn, to be kind and to love other people. That is not wrong in any religion that I know of and love and kindness are a huge part of any religion or spiritual belief system. So why not believe in love and kindness and leave religion out of it?

Start with opening your heart to other human beings, not judging them and allowing them to be free to have their own beliefs just as you are free to have yours. Everyone wants to be respected and be free to make their own choices about what to believe in. So maybe if we all start respecting one another as human beings, we can get past this need to discriminate based on things like race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

You basically summed up my thoughts :D
 
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:32 pm

Seems to be reluctance by GOP senators after endless mass shootings "that this was God's will to bring these victims to a better place".

Which sums up the critical role of God/Christ in the GOP platform.

However many do not believe in the afterlife and likely those statements disgust and anger them even more.

It really comes down to you reinforcing your beliefs...
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hispanola
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:51 pm

People will blame and blame some more. The idea that Christians are to blame for this attack makes no logical sense, and it's most likely a response to some crazy/sensationalist Christians that have been blaming Muslims for this.

The truth is that this is a terrorist attack and neither the Christians nor the Muslims are to blame for it. This kind of press was quite common in Northern Ireland (my home) between Catholics and Protestants. All it is is blame that deserves no attention whatsoever. Only other fanatics would believe such an article.

People generally don't and most certainly shouldn't hate Christians. The same goes for people of other faiths. Your religion is usually the most important thing to you, and it is very disrespectful to be hated for it or to hate others who don't share your beliefs.

I myself am a Catholic from NI who has lived in the United States before.
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MaverickM11
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:28 pm

coolian2 wrote:
Knowing these people the way I do, I live more "Christian values" in a day than they could in a year.

I think that's what it comes down to. If you're "pro life" and "pro gun" you are a liar and a hypocrite, and people see right through it. Similarly if the catholic church is telling me how awful I am because I'm gay, yet goes on robbing, defrauding, and molesting children, again everyone sees right through it. I crawled out of catholic school as quickly as I could; I can't fathom how people square the catholic church's teachings with their dealings.
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:46 pm

coolian2 wrote:
Coincidentally, I know a lot of people who go on and on about "Christian values".

Knowing these people the way I do, I live more "Christian values" in a day than they could in a year.

Signed,
Agnostic (but open to any truth, but I won't know until I die)

This is what it boils down to for me. I've never argued that all Christians are bad. There are plenty of good Christians out there who practice their faith and are good, honest people. Most of them also acknowledge they aren't perfect, but try and live the best life they can. The issue I have is with those who use their faith as a tool to hurt others. The religious right is a prime example. Everything they do is un-Christian, from hating gays, women, and transgender people, to promoting "traditional values" and denying gay marriage licenses when they're on their fourth marriage, to being pro-life but also pro-gun and pro-death penalty, to allying themselves with powerful corporate interests bent on hurting the poor. One wonders whether they've ever actually read the Bible or, at a minimum, the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus would be absolutely appalled with these people and would distance himself from them, not embrace them as representatives of his teachings. People like that are the absolute antithesis of a good Christian. Those are the ones with whom I take issue.
MaverickM11 wrote:

Precisely!
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seb146
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:41 pm

I don't think it is Christians who are bad. I think it is people who use Christianity to tell others how to live and vote that are bad. Just like not all Muslims are bad, just the ones who use Islam to tell others how to live and vote.
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aerorobnz
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:17 pm

Religious people, be they Christian, Muslim or any other of the institutionalised mental illnesses that involve talking/praying to imaginary friends in their heads and not taking anti psychotic medications for their paranoid and irrational (some could even say schizophrenic) behaviours. They are all of concern as they hold back the human race from developing their full potential without actually adding anything valuable beyond the "feelgood" factor. As long as they accept that beyond the feelgood Religion has no relevance in the real world there is no problem, The issue is when they treat it like it deserves credence over fact, logic and reason solely because it cannot be 'proven' that God/Afterlife doesn't exist.

- They stop individual freedoms for all citing only religious text as evidence for restricting it (ie no reason at all)
- They interject their irrational opinions on scientific developments like stem cell research, cloning and genetic modification. Objections are fine, but they have to be tangible, quantifiable objections.
- They would rather bring on Armageddon than fix poverty, treat disease, climate change and offer nothing except "let's pray" to the table because ostensibly they all want to end up dead - with their version of God in heaven, rather than appreciating or looking after what they have right now.

That said to blame Christians for this guy, who was clearly having a personality crisis in is head over his own sexuality vs his traditionally held Islamic beliefs is stupid. His Islamic background definitely contributed to his psychosis, but it was really just another layer of psychosis on a complex ball of sociopathic rage. This guy was clearly deranged without the religious justification and even if he was an atheist he would have gone berserk eventually because he was using irrational justification for his actions regardless of his beliefs.
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photopilot
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:44 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
Religious people, be they Christian, Muslim or any other of the institutionalised mental illnesses that involve talking/praying to imaginary friends in their heads and not taking anti psychotic medications for their paranoid and irrational (some could even say schizophrenic) behaviours. They are all of concern as they hold back the human race from developing their full potential without actually adding anything valuable beyond the "feelgood" factor. As long as they accept that beyond the feelgood Religion has no relevance in the real world there is no problem, The issue is when they treat it like it deserves credence over fact, logic and reason solely because it cannot be 'proven' that God/Afterlife doesn't exist.

- They stop individual freedoms for all citing only religious text as evidence for restricting it (ie no reason at all)
- They interject their irrational opinions on scientific developments like stem cell research, cloning and genetic modification. Objections are fine, but they have to be tangible, quantifiable objections.
- They would rather bring on Armageddon than fix poverty, treat disease, climate change and offer nothing except "let's pray" to the table because ostensibly they all want to end up dead - with their version of God in heaven, rather than appreciating or looking after what they have right now.

That said to blame Christians for this guy, who was clearly having a personality crisis in is head over his own sexuality vs his traditionally held Islamic beliefs is stupid. His Islamic background definitely contributed to his psychosis, but it was really just another layer of psychosis on a complex ball of sociopathic rage. This guy was clearly deranged without the religious justification and even if he was an atheist he would have gone berserk eventually because he was using irrational justification for his actions regardless of his beliefs.


Absolutely right on!!!

As to the OP's premise that people hate Christians, I have absolutely no issues with people who believe in "Puff, the Magic Man in the Sky", as long as they confine their activities within the 4 walls of their domicile or the 4 walls of their place of worship. It's when they bring it out into society that I have an issue. Society, in public, in the workplace, schools, institutions etc MUST be secular.

IMHO, until the world can get rid of the mumbo-jumbo of irrational beliefs like religions we are doomed to endless conflict. It's ironic because all these "religions" preach peace yet are the source of so many conflicts and friction.

I don't hate Christians, rather I despise what all religions have done to mankind.
 
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Aesma
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:48 am

I was a Catholic, well, for the church I probably still am. My father's sister is a nun, my grandmother's sister was a cloistered nun that I got to see a couple of times.

My experience with the church was very "French" I would say, if you know what Vatican 2 is, then you might know that the French church was a leading proponent behind it.

What I mean is I experienced a very Christian church, in the good sense of the word. All about loving thy neighbour, helping out, traveling to Africa to build orphanages, etc. Never has a priest or anybody associated with the church talked about hating anyone, or going to hell, or anything like that. I was never told to be a virgin until marriage, that abortion was bad, in fact my first few girlfriends were all met at church and we didn't stay virgins long.

If Christianity was always like that, I think there would be no problem. Except for the fact that it might decline in popularity, as it seems people want rules to guide them (or break them).

When I say I was a Catholic, I meant that as a religion. As for my beliefs, I never believed in god, not for a lack of trying. It didn't pass muster to me, a kid that was doing maths for fun at a young age, and has been subscribed to an adult magazine about science and the future since age 12.

After various events, I would describe myself as atheist, agnostic, anti-clerical and anti-religious.


To the OP, my answer would be that pointing fingers is a very human thing to do.
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vikkyvik
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:57 am

photopilot wrote:
IMHO, until the world can get rid of the mumbo-jumbo of irrational beliefs like religions we are doomed to endless conflict. It's ironic because all these "religions" preach peace yet are the source of so many conflicts and friction.


And you don't think that after we dispose of religions, people will just find something else to fight over?

Human nature is human nature. Religion is just a convenient avenue for it. But there are plenty of others.
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mt99
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:09 am

lesfalls wrote:
I just saw an article stating that christians are to blame for the Orlando attacks. It made me wonder why continously Christians are being blamed for many thing?I am a Catholic and find it terrible that more people consider Christians bad.Not only are other groups of people being harrased but many christians are too(which not many people seem to care about).


Have you seen this guy?

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/ ... ub-attack/

"“Are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?” he said in the sermon. “Um no, I think that’s great! I think that helps society. I think Orlando, Florida is a little safer tonight.”
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WROORD
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:17 am

I thought this was aviation forum, so unless the Christians in the article in question are flying planes I do not believe this question belongs on this forum.
 
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HGL
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:22 am

WROORD wrote:
I thought this was aviation forum, so unless the Christians in the article in question are flying planes I do not believe this question belongs on this forum.

This is a forum marked clearly "Non-Aviation". If this thread appeared under Trip Reports, Site Related, Civil Aviation, etc, you might have cause to complain.

Those not interested in non-aviation subjects are under no compulsion to visit this part of the forums. ;)
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DocLightning
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:02 am

Let me explain something, really fast.

In Orlando, one of the victims considered himself a Christian. He sang in his church's gospel choir every single Sunday.

His church will not allow his family to have their funeral in the church because they didn't realize he was gay.

In the United States, 99% of opposition to same-sex marriage came from people citing their Christian beliefs. The same beliefs are currently used to cite opposition to anti-discrimination laws including LGBT people. The same beliefs are currently being used to ban transgendered people from using the bathroom.

But it didn't start there. The Catholic Church presided over the Dark Ages, perhaps the most regressive period in Western history. The Catholic Church oversaw the Spanish Inquisition. The Catholic Church oversaw the wholesale genocide of the peoples of the Americas (not that they were nice people, what with their penchant for bloody sacrifices, but still...). The Catholic Church subjected Galileo Galilei to the same. The Catholic Church presided over the bloody crusades. The Catholic Church was so awful that there was a very bloody reformation that led to the Protestant movement.

In the U.S., Christianity got off to a great start with the Salem Witch trials. But even if we consider them to be an isolated sect, it was Christians citing their Bible who wholeheartedly defended slavery as a biblical right. It was Christians citing their Bible who opposed women's rights (and continues to today). Not just suffrage, but even the use of anesthesia during childbirth (citing Genesis). It was Christians citing their Bibles that opposed interracial marriage and all civil rights (and yes, the Black church supported it, but being made of the oppressed, it would, wouldn't it? No church was even necessary.) When stem cell research promised to advance medicine and cure incurable diseases, Christians citing their Bibles stood in the way.

At EVERY SINGLE step of Western history where there has been an opportunity to make the world better, it has been Christians citing their Bibles to stand in the way.

Now, it's not just Christianity. In the Islamic part of the world, Islam has done the same. So the problem isn't so much Christianity specifically as it is Abrahamic religion.

And while there were Christians always on the side of progress, they were joined by secularists. But on the side of regression it has always been the sole realm of the religious. The SOLE realm. That's telling.
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HGL
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:12 am

DocLightning wrote:
But on the side of regression it has always been the sole realm of the religious. The SOLE realm. That's telling.

While you are right to point out that some religious bodies have opposed progress and even sided with military dictatorships, it is not the case that they were the only ones.

I'd hazard a guess that the scientific/ medical community at Tiergarten 4 wasn't made up of bible-thumping Christians. Yet that didn't prevent them from organising policies that many would find abhorrent today. Initially carried out in secret, news of Aktion T4 (a medical extermination program) filtered out and vocal resistance was led by members of the clergy and (as this is a site dedicated to things aviation) even Werner Moelders, a Catholic Luftwaffe pilot and war hero threatened to return his decorations if the "euthanasia" program was not halted.

So your equation Christians/regious = anti progress/ regressive : secular/scientific = progressive/ opposing oppression is rather simplistic and in all likelihood does not represent the views of many people who identify as Christian.
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DocLightning
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:16 am

Actually, the Nazis made extensive use of Christian propaganda in their programs. While it is true that the Catholic Church opposed the Nazis, the opposition was light, indeed, given that they were surrounded by a Fascist Italy.
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HGL
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:20 am

DocLightning wrote:
Actually, the Nazis made extensive use of Christian propaganda in their programs. While it is true that the Catholic Church opposed the Nazis, the opposition was light, indeed, given that they were surrounded by a Fascist Italy.

Yes, they tried to enclose the church in Germany into an instrument of state policy but that does not mean that the scientists and medical profession who carried out their murderous policies were driven by religious dogma. Far from it. They in the main regarded themselves as being rational men (for they were mainly but not exclusively men) at the forefront of science.
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:49 am

HGL wrote:
Yes, they tried to enclose the church in Germany into an instrument of state policy but that does not mean that the scientists and medical profession who carried out their murderous policies were driven by religious dogma. Far from it. They in the main regarded themselves as being rational men (for they were mainly but not exclusively men) at the forefront of science.


Perhaps. Religion is not the root of ALL evil and I have never claimed it was. I give you Communism (although one might argue that's a religious dogma in and of itself, complete with gods and saints).

But in the West, religion has been the root of MOST evil. And certainly in the modern world since 1950, Christianity has been counter to every sort of social progress.
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obrienct
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:09 am

My question is why something like this is on A.Net? A.Net is supposed to be an Internet sanctuary for AvGeeks, not Religious Forums.
 
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HGL
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:16 am

obrienct wrote:
My question is why something like this is on A.Net? A.Net is supposed to be an Internet sanctuary for AvGeeks, not Religious Forums.

Because even AvGeeks can have interests beyond aviation. There has been a non-aviation forum as part of Airliners for many years. It provides an area where members are able to discuss other issues if they wish. Those issues can include anything from which phone is the best to the latest mass shooting in the US.

Participation is up to each individual to decide. If members are not interested in Formula One or cooking knives, they can simply stick to the several directly aviation related forums.
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HGL
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:28 am

DocLightning wrote:
Perhaps. Religion is not the root of ALL evil and I have never claimed it was.
No but you did say that regression has been the sole realm of the religious, even going so far as to repeat the word in block capitals to emphasise the point.

The reality is that while some religious organisations have been obstacles to progress there is no one definition of what it is to be a Christian. If that were the case there would not be a plurality of churches and sects, some more progressive, some more (for want of a better term) "traditional". Some churches oppose gay marriages, others willingly perform them, yet both do so on their interpretation of what being Christian means.

Personally I wouldn't claim that a Christian is one who believes in anything other than they believe that Christ is that Son of God and he died for our sins. There are sufficient contradictions in the Gospels to lead me to say that what Christ might say in relation to a contemporary issue, that can only be speculation.
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Gemuser
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:55 am

Revelation wrote:
I don't know, let's start with the Crusades and work our way forward, shall we? :D
...
That's my $0.02, Rev.

And a fair $0.02 too, but why start with the Crusades? Why not start with the Arab invasion of the Christian Byzantine provinces of the area which provoked the Crusades [or at least the First Crusade, it's complicated, as is anything to do with the eastern shore of the Mediterranean] or go back further to the Roman invasion of the area [who the Byzantines took over from] or Alexander's or anybody else's invasion of the area? They ALL contributed to the problems of the area and the creation of the problem that is the Semantic [or Abrahamic, if you prefer] religions have created across the globe!

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scbriml
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:59 am

People who take fictional books WAY too seriously are the problem. Doesn't matter what book it is.
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MaverickM11
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:52 pm

This is the same pastor that gays are worth of death AND held a conference that was attended by Jindal/Cruz/Huckabee. So if you're wondering why people don't trust republican christians, here's exhibit A, again:

Christian Pastor: The Orlando Nightclub Massacre Occurred Because God Gave Up on the Gay Victims

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... m=facebook
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Boeing778X
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:47 pm

obrienct wrote:
My question is why something like this is on A.Net? A.Net is supposed to be an Internet sanctuary for AvGeeks, not Religious Forums.


As a Christian, I agree. We should be talking about these sort of things.

Pretty soon, A.net because another pissing battle ground. As if A vs. B battles weren't bad enough.
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petertenthije
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:51 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
obrienct wrote:
My question is why something like this is on A.Net? A.Net is supposed to be an Internet sanctuary for AvGeeks, not Religious Forums.


As a Christian, I agree. We should be talking about these sort of things.

Pretty soon, A.net because another pissing battle ground. As if A vs. B battles weren't bad enough.
You resurrect a 11 month old thread, basically to say you are tired of flame-bait threads like this?
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flipdewaf
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Re: why do people consider christians bad?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:26 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
obrienct wrote:
My question is why something like this is on A.Net? A.Net is supposed to be an Internet sanctuary for AvGeeks, not Religious Forums.


As a Christian, I agree. We should be talking about these sort of things.

Pretty soon, A.net because another pissing battle ground. As if A vs. B battles weren't bad enough.
You resurrect a 11 month old thread, basically to say you are tired of flame-bait threads like this?

Well if you think about it, its absolutely to be expected, dig up an old story then twist it to look like religious persecution. Twist it enough times and you might even have the future bible (except this thread actually happened).

Why do people consider christians bad? Right here in this thread.

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