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jpetekyxmd80
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:40 pm

You really dont know what an oppressor is and I hope for your own good you don't actually find out.
 
victrola
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:02 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
You really dont know what an oppressor is and I hope for your own good you don't actually find out.


Piyin makes it sound like living in Finland today as a oppressed victim of the EU is like living under the oppressive yoke of Stalinist Russia. It would be interesting if he could have a conversation with his ancestors who lived under the yoke of the Russians and ask them how it compares to living in the EU.

I am sure that after his recent posts the EU secret police will be arresting him shortly and taking him away for torture.
 
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pvjin
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:08 pm

victrola wrote:
jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
You really dont know what an oppressor is and I hope for your own good you don't actually find out.


Piyin makes it sound like living in Finland today as a oppressed victim of the EU is like living under the oppressive yoke of Stalinist Russia. It would be interesting if he could have a conversation with his ancestors who lived under the yoke of the Russians and ask them how it compares to living in the EU.

I am sure that after his recent posts the EU secret police will be arresting him shortly and taking him away for torture.


Thanks to Finnish population's strong support for an independent nation state none of my ancestors had to live under Stalinist Russia. Some of them lived in the Grand Duchy of Finland which was part of Russia, and there Finnish people had pretty much equal amount of autonomy to what we now have under the EU. We also had our own currency back then, something that we would really need now.
 
agill
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:28 pm

Funny how "Britain first" probably will be the thing that will be the end of Britain.
 
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n229nw
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:34 pm

sebolino wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
2 things saddened me today

a) A guy in the office shouting that we can now 'send them all back' and then turning to the German girls sitting next to him an saying 'Erm not you off course'

b) Someone I know who has moved to Europe and only speaks English and has no intention of learning the local language whinging how she can't stand people speaking foreign on the bus, foreigners kids taking school places, etc as being her reason for voting out


Very saddening indeed.
Unfortunately, you'll always get these kind of over-simplistic (and dumb) emotional reactions. And it's because the Euroskeptics are opposing the feeling to be part of a nation to the membership of the EU. Far right and populist Lepen family is doing exactly the same in France for years.
It looks like they won this time.
I may be wrong of course, but I fear many "Leave" voters will dearly regret their vote in a few months/years.


Yes, but instead of blaming themselves for tanking the economy (including unemployment, which was much lower in the UK than most EU countries), those same voters will turn even more on the "elites" and on immigrants. Things will, I fear get ugly for a while.

The kind of quotes that vrbarreto mentions are the same things one hears from Trump supporters in the US. Dark times in many ways. Human tribalism is such a horrible yet natural force.
 
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OA412
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:36 pm

The UK is, in many ways, a strange place. On the one hand you have people complaining about faceless Eurocrats taking away their rights, and on the other you have a democracy without an official written constitution. It's a bit odd to me.

Francoflier wrote:
Grexit concerned the exit of Greece from the Eurozone, not necessarily the EU itself.
The UK was never in the Eurozone. It had just about the highest degree of autonomy from the EU that could be afforded while still enjoying the benefits of being a member.

Sort of. As negotiations dragged on, there were more and more suggestions that Greece shouldn't just exit the Eurozone, but also be expelled from the EU itself. We don't really know the implications of Grexit simply because it didn't happen. There was the possibility of total collapse of the EU itself. Probably too alarmist, but a possibility nonetheless.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Well, because there's no mechanism to leave the euro and still be a EU member, Grexit still worried the markets because not only the Eurozone would unravel, but also the EU itself.

Indeed.
jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
You really dont know what an oppressor is and I hope for your own good you don't actually find out.

Amen to that. All I can do is roll my eyes when I hear anyone under 60 belonging to the majority ethnicity in a Western democracy complaining about oppression, since they've never actually known true oppression. I don't understand true oppression as it exists in dictatorships, and thank goodness for that. My parents did live through oppressive regimes, and it wasn't quite like living in a western democracy.
victrola wrote:
It would be interesting if he could have a conversation with his ancestors who lived under the yoke of the Russians and ask them how it compares to living in the EU.

I am sure that after his recent posts the EU secret police will be arresting him shortly and taking him away for torture.

Exactly. And straight off to a Siberian Gulag...oh wait...
 
victrola
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:50 pm

It was interesting how the votes broke down:

ages 18-24 64% remain 24% exit
ages 24-49 45% remain 39% exit
ages-50-64 35% remain 49% exit
ages 65+ 33% remain 58% exit

So it looks like a bunch of old folks on the verge of or already retired have screwed over the younger productive generations.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Roger Daltrey to the rest of EU .... "Follow Me ! ! !"

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:56 pm

Roger says to the rest of the EU Nations regarding the Brexit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGa70tVYVKo
 
wingman
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:09 pm

Now the UK simply has to put in laws that make life in the UK seem difficult for illegals, and they'll stop flowing in. Every refugee that has drowned in the Mediterranean has died because of the EU which has made illegal migration such an attractive option.[/quote]

First off, I have to challenge this assertion. No one is drowning because the destination is so attractive, they're drowning because they can't survive and/or feed their families where they're coming from. I haven't met an immigrant in my life that doesn't dream of having the same opportunities they find in their new country back home. No one wants to leave their ancestral homeland, uproot their families, risk their lives, know that at best some level of poverty awaits at the other end. Mass migration is about salvation and doing anything possible to give your children a chance at something better. Anyone or any country that thinks they can stop migration is foolish. The dinosaurs started it and we've been doing it ever since.

Second, is the UK drowning in immigrants? I thought it was Germany and Turkey bearing the brunt. Third, if the UK is anything like the US, the value of immigration far exceeds the costs. Hang around the Uni research centers, hospitals, IT departments, analytical teams...that's the value of high-end immigration. On the low end explore your food sources, your hard labor industries, construction, landscaping...the value cannot be overstated. But what makes the news are bad stories and fear mongers (politicians and the media alike) use the bad apples to sow fear in the electorate. It looks like it just happened in the UK and right now we have Trump on our end doing the same to millions of Americans. Take the story being weaved about this shooter in Orlando. Nateen was born eight miles from Donald Trump in New York City and his parents came here legally from a nation we were allied with against the Soviet Union. And yet millions of witless Americans watching Fox News would guarantee you that Nateen is an illegal Muslim immigrant terrorist trained in the deserts of Syria that was welcomed in the dead of night by Obama himself. Too many Americans and Brits (as we discovered this morning), are incapable of verifying the truth on their own, seeing through the smoke and mirrors, knowing that people like Trump and this guy Farage are nothing but snake oil salesmen. It's a true catastrophe for the UK and all for what? To pretend that you can stop doctors and mathematicians and entrepreneurs and laborers etc etc from getting in? It's a dark day in UK history indeed, maybe the darkest yet.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:27 pm

victrola wrote:
It was interesting how the votes broke down:

ages 18-24 64% remain 24% exit
ages 24-49 45% remain 39% exit
ages-50-64 35% remain 49% exit
ages 65+ 33% remain 58% exit

So it looks like a bunch of old folks on the verge of or already retired have screwed over the younger productive generations.


That's not an accurate picture. Those figures are from a YouGov poll of around 1000 people BEFORE the official vote. It's also worth noting that you can set your age as anything you want. There are no official figures on the age demographic from the actual vote but it is probably fair to say the majority of the youngsters did vote to remain.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:30 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
RobK wrote:
Pound crashing was entirely predictable given the volatility. Come back in a week and it will be back to normal levels.


Nah.. the Pound will be on a roller coaster until the time when the leave agreement is signed.
Until then no one knows how much access they will have to European markets and without that there can't be a stable exchange rate.
I wouldn't be surprised if the waiting time kills off a bank or two.

Best regards
Thomas


As predicted, the pound has largely recovered already even given the very short space of time since the results. FTSE100 back to normal levels at the close of business. Much ado about nothing. No armageddon is coming and we will survive just fine on our own. :)
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:01 pm

Congrats to the U.K.!

Perhaps now liberalism and reckless, rampant immigration can be checked and sensible leadership can be instated.
I am so sick of these leftists ramming through their agendas andusing the threats of being called racist or xenophobic, and then having the audacity to say they represent their constituents. Same thing here in the U.S.

It's YOUR country! Your land! Your home!
 
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OA412
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:25 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Perhaps now liberalism and reckless, rampant immigration can be checked and sensible leadership can be instated.
I am so sick of these leftists ramming through their agendas andusing the threats of being called racist or xenophobic, and then having the audacity to say they represent their constituents. Same thing here in the U.S.

It's YOUR country! Your land! Your home!

Oh lord... Is that you Donald? :roll:
 
aloges
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:40 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
I hope that the UK and Switzerland put their heads together and start cooperating as an independent bloc.

You mean like EFTA, which the UK left in 1973 to join the EEC, one of the predecessors of the EU? I bet the Swiss would absolutely adore being taken for that particular ride. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
 
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zckls04
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:45 pm

RobK wrote:

As predicted, the pound has largely recovered already even given the very short space of time since the results.


Nope.

Image

FTSE100 back to normal levels at the close of business. Much ado about nothing. No armageddon is coming and we will survive just fine on our own. :)


FTSE250:

Image
 
wingman
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:09 pm

May I present the the Republican candidate for President of the United States in what is quite possibly the most egregious display of idiocy in global political history. This buffoon makes Palin and her backyard visions look erudite.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... d-bizarre/
 
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n229nw
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:25 pm

My depression over this is sinking in, but here is a little dark humo(u)r for the occasion:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber
 
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scbriml
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:29 pm

GDB wrote:
Me? I'm ashamed today to be British.


I'm very disappointed by the result. But it is what it is, and now I'm going to work for the best and be positive. I'll NEVER be ashamed of being British.

Aesma wrote:
Less exports to the UK is already a given as UK citizens just became poorer.


Maybe temporarily, but that's offset by a much lower Euro as well. So you don't want to export to the UK? :lol:

Let's see what happens in France when Le Pen is elected.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:31 pm

zckls04 wrote:
RobK wrote:

As predicted, the pound has largely recovered already even given the very short space of time since the results.


Nope.

Image

FTSE100 back to normal levels at the close of business. Much ado about nothing. No armageddon is coming and we will survive just fine on our own. :)


FTSE250:

Image


Trying rewinding your GBP chart more than a few days to get a better picture. Yes it's still lower than average but it's not the off-the-bottom-of-the-dial armageddon that many are making it out to be which, given the scale of what's just happened to the UK, is pretty impressive.

Granted, your FTSE250 is more representative of the UK market but again, hardly the armageddon that many are jumping up and down about. It's not even been 24 hrs since the results. Come back in a week with your graphs and we'll have another chat about them eh? ;)
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:35 pm

n229nw wrote:
My depression over this is sinking in, but here is a little dark humo(u)r for the occasion:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber


Is that the best you could do? :mrgreen:
 
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scbriml
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:48 pm

RobK wrote:
Is that the best you could do? :mrgreen:


From a country that could yet elect Trump as president? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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n229nw
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:02 pm

scbriml wrote:
RobK wrote:
Is that the best you could do? :mrgreen:


From a country that could yet elect Trump as president? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Clearly you didn't read the last line in the article... :lol:
 
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zckls04
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:15 pm

RobK wrote:
Trying rewinding your GBP chart more than a few days to get a better picture. Yes it's still lower than average but it's not the off-the-bottom-of-the-dial armageddon that many are making it out to be which, given the scale of what's just happened to the UK, is pretty impressive.


It hasn't "largely recovered" though, which was your claim. Not even close.

Granted, your FTSE250 is more representative of the UK market but again, hardly the armageddon that many are jumping up and down about. It's not even been 24 hrs since the results. Come back in a week with your graphs and we'll have another chat about them eh? ;)


The effects are going to be felt in years, not weeks. Right now nobody has any clue how significant they will be. You are right that it won't be armageddon, but that doesn't mean it won't be significant, especially when one considers the fact the whole thing was a completely pointless exercise.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:57 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Less exports to the UK is already a given as UK citizens just became poorer.


Maybe temporarily, but that's offset by a much lower Euro as well. So you don't want to export to the UK? :lol:

Let's see what happens in France when Le Pen is elected.


I want to export to the UK, but I want the UK to get a normal deal.

My company is in the CAC40 and does plenty of business in the UK, for example it has built and still manages the headquarters of the Home Office. It has lost 7% on the markets today, my savings did too.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:22 pm

As for the French presidential election, in France it's very democratic. You don't need to be the leader of your party, you don't need the support of a majority of MPs or great electors, what you need is 1 vote over a half of the electorate.

For Marine Le Pen, that's an extremely tall order. Her party has only got two MPs at the moment, and they were elected with two opponents each. That means that the FN has not gotten over 50% in any of the 577 districts.
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:23 pm

zckls04 wrote:
It hasn't "largely recovered" though, which was your claim. Not even close.


Wall Street and other markets went into panic mode, but it will recover, because most of the losses make no sense. Caterpillar lost 7% today - why? There is no logical reason why CAT would be negatively impacted even remotely that much, if at all. It's a big chicken-little act and I expect a recovery pretty quick for the vast majority of stocks.

The opposition for Brexit was based on the desires of big multinationals banks and the trading communities, and the politicians who serve them. Obviously they will love to self-generate a 'panic'.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:37 pm

zckls04 wrote:
RobK wrote:
Trying rewinding your GBP chart more than a few days to get a better picture. Yes it's still lower than average but it's not the off-the-bottom-of-the-dial armageddon that many are making it out to be which, given the scale of what's just happened to the UK, is pretty impressive.


It hasn't "largely recovered" though, which was your claim. Not even close.

Granted, your FTSE250 is more representative of the UK market but again, hardly the armageddon that many are jumping up and down about. It's not even been 24 hrs since the results. Come back in a week with your graphs and we'll have another chat about them eh? ;)


The effects are going to be felt in years, not weeks. Right now nobody has any clue how significant they will be. You are right that it won't be armageddon, but that doesn't mean it won't be significant, especially when one considers the fact the whole thing was a completely pointless exercise.


A completely pointless exercise in whose opinion? Just yours from what I can see and as your profile flag suggests you don't even live here so it's nice and easy for you to come out with those cute sound bites from the comfort of your armchair 3000 miles away. The fact is that the majority of the UK are sick to death of being Merkel's subservient pet poodle whilst simultaneously having rules and laws forced upon us because "we know what's best for you" and as a nation we don't take kindly to being bullied. The people have spoken. We will ride out the inevitable stormy (uncharted) waters over the next few years like we've always managed to do and I firmly believe that in the long term the people made the right vote.
 
ozglobal
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Re: EU referendum today

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:44 pm

As shocked as I am that Brits would actually burn the house down in a fit of 'low information voter' protest, I've no heart left for the debate, so based on fear, fraud and duplicity.

Let us, the rest of the EU, today take up these words from that great Englishman, Shakespeare :

Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more,
Men were deceivers ever;
One foot in sea, and one on shore,
To one thing constant never.
Then sigh not so,
But let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nonny, nonny.

Sing no more ditties, sing no more
Of dumps so dull and heavy;
The fraud of men was ever so,
Since summer first was leavy.
Then sigh not so,
But let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nanny, nonny.

( Much Ado About Nothing, Act II, Scene iii )

Recited in the film by Emma Thompson : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xVDyi4Wprg
 
blueflyer
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:05 am

So what's the EU anyway, the UK asks...
http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-the-eu ... -to-leave/

File that under "you think you should have done that earlier?"
 
GDB
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:18 am

[quote="ozglobal"]As shocked as I am that Brits would actually burn the house down in a fit of 'low information voter' protest, I've no heart left for the debate, so based on fear, fraud and duplicity.

When I said I was ashamed to be British, while I still feel that to a point, you have put it better.
I hardly followed the debates, I feared it might turn into an anti immigrant shitfest and so it did.
Then it just got worse and worse.

Yes the remain side, mainly Osborne, over-egged it with dire economic warnings, some of which may come to pass in some form, maybe diluted, my fear is and always was the unexpected fallout we have yet to see.
You don't unravel all of the links, in trade, laws, co-ooperation after over 40 years without consequences.

But that was nothing to the bare faced untruths pedalled not just by Farage as expected, or by Johnson with his ego and ambition at all costs, it was wider that that.
Gove is anything the most dangerous potential PM, behind that quiet, calm persona is a political stance of creative destruction, Cameron referred to him before all this, as 'basically a Maoist'.
Not that any of that destruction would ever touch him, nor his nearest and dearest.

And please fellow Brits, don't get all stroppy if/when we come out worse in talks about the implementation of Brexit, it's one against 27 now, we chose that.
 
BarfBag
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:37 am

Quite a momentous referendum there. It turned out far better than I'd hoped. This moment reminds me of watching the slow motion train wreck of another historic entity - the USSR unraveling. It's fascinating to watch the UK come apart progressively.

I do hope Scotland rush to exit the UK and join the EU, and push for Edinburgh or Glasgow as an alternative Euro-focused financial center, so that the Irish don't win most of the spoils. There's an enormous amount of money in it for them, and they have advantages that the Irish don't. Likewise, best wishes to the Sinn Fein's efforts to ensure that the mandate of the NI people is respected, and they too should exit and join the EU at the earliest, or perhaps simply be absorbed into the Republic of Ireland.

The voting map is quite telling. The UK is clearly a very divided place both geographically and demographically, far more so than the press described before this referendum in the popular press.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:43 am

BarfBag wrote:
Quite a momentous referendum there. It turned out far better than I'd hoped. This moment reminds me of watching the slow motion train wreck of another historic entity - the USSR unraveling. It's fascinating to watch the UK come apart progressively.

I do hope Scotland rush to exit the UK and join the EU, and push for Edinburgh or Glasgow as an alternative Euro-focused financial center, so that the Irish don't win most of the spoils. There's an enormous amount of money in it for them, and they have advantages that the Irish don't. Likewise, best wishes to the Sinn Fein's efforts to ensure that the mandate of the NI people is respected, and they too should exit and join the EU at the earliest, or perhaps simply be absorbed into the Republic of Ireland.

The voting map is quite telling. The UK is clearly a very divided place both geographically and demographically, far more so than the press described before this referendum in the popular press.


Don't forget that the 'remain' London boroughs are mostly populated by first generation immigrants so the votes from those areas are hardly surprising.
 
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777Jet
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:21 am

Congrats to Britain for waking up and escaping from that cancerous union.
 
BarfBag
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:32 am

RobK wrote:
Don't forget that the 'remain' London boroughs are mostly populated by first generation immigrants so the votes from those areas are hardly surprising.

I have multiple friends from my early school days in India who reside in major cities in UK. They are all first generation but very qualified and educated (graduate or business degrees) Hindus and Sikhs, and quite well off too. All of them, and their spouses, voted Leave, as did many of their friends of similar backgrounds. They'll never say so in public where they are of course, since the atmosphere is so polarized.

For Scotland and NI, it's preferable to exit the union because it clearly suits them better, and for the union to therefore dissolve. Quite fascinating. Like watching the Iron Curtain open in the late 1980s, wondering how soon things would come apart.
 
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HGL
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:23 am

777Jet wrote:
Congrats to Britain for waking up and escaping from that cancerous union.

It's a bit premature to offer congratulations. Despite the Leave vote, the UK is still a member of the EU and will remain so for some time.

Although the EU President and some other EU leaders have suggested that Art.50 be invoked speedily, that won't happen before a new British Prime Minister is appointed and a new government formed. The new government might not be too anxious to invoke Art. 50 immediately, perhaps seeking exploratory talks in order to gain more favourable terms for Brexit.

Either way, the UK will need to negotiate the terms of its withdrawal, finalising the status of 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU and of 3 million EU citizens living in the UK. It will also have to negotiate terms of trade with the EU if the UK wishes to continue having access to the EU market, not just for goods but for things like financial services. Negotiations to withdraw are required to be complete within two years but negotiations on future access to markets could take longer.

All is achievable but will not be as simple as some imagine and the outcome might not be what those who vote Leave had wished for.
 
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777Jet
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:57 am

HGL wrote:
777Jet wrote:
Congrats to Britain for waking up and escaping from that cancerous union.

It's a bit premature to offer congratulations. Despite the Leave vote, the UK is still a member of the EU and will remain so for some time.

Although the EU President and some other EU leaders have suggested that Art.50 be invoked speedily, that won't happen before a new British Prime Minister is appointed and a new government formed. The new government might not be too anxious to invoke Art. 50 immediately, perhaps seeking exploratory talks in order to gain more favourable terms for Brexit.

Either way, the UK will need to negotiate the terms of its withdrawal, finalising the status of 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU and of 3 million EU citizens living in the UK. It will also have to negotiate terms of trade with the EU if the UK wishes to continue having access to the EU market, not just for goods but for things like financial services. Negotiations to withdraw are required to be complete within two years but negotiations on future access to markets could take longer.

All is achievable but will not be as simple as some imagine and the outcome might not be what those who vote Leave had wished for.


I understand that, and that the UK is still a member of the EU, but the people have spoken and the UK will be escaping from that cancerous union.

I also agree that the withdrawal negotiations will not be simple and might take some time, and that the initial outcome might not be what people had hoped for, but quite often short term pain is needed for long term gain. I suspect that in the long run, the UK will do better on its own.

The reactions of many of figureheads from different nations in the EU is another example of why the UK made the right choice to leave. Before the vote, they wanted the UK to stay. Straight after the vote, they want the UK to leave ASAP. Some of these people are carrying on like spoiled brats when they don't get their way. Whilst I believe it will be better for both the UK and EU for the withdrawal to happen sooner rather than later, some of the comments made by figureheads in other EU countries in the wake of the vote is evidence that they are pissed off that there will be one less player for them to bully around. I'm glad that those incompetent and corrupt politicians in Brussels and that clueless, reckless, dictator Merkel will soon have one less nation to bully around.

As for the comments Obama made a week or so before the vote, about putting trade with 'blocks' ahead of trade with individual nations, I'm sure those comments did not go down well with many UK voters either. If they don't like the EU telling them what to do, then they really won't like somebody on the other side of the much bigger pond telling them what to do or making subtle threats. I believe all of the bullying and scare-mongering may have worked against those who wanted the UK to remain. Britons are neither weak nor fools and will not, and did not, respond well to being bullied around or threatened.

Nations should be in control of their own borders and fate, and not be controlled by others in a damaging way. Nations should look after the interests of their own citizens, not be forced to neglect their own to take care of others. Their is nothing wrong was nations putting themselves first - that is what they should do - and I'm glad to see the UK headed down this path.

I congratulate the majority of people who voted in Britain on their vote - a result that will allow them to determine their own future instead of have it determined for them. To the others who didn't get their way - suck it up - majority rules - there are plenty of other places you can choose to live if you like being told what to do ;)
 
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HGL
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 3:25 am

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:23 am

777Jet wrote:
Before the vote, they wanted the UK to stay. Straight after the vote, they want the UK to leave ASAP.

Of course they wanted the UK to stay and they probably would wish that the UK did stay if it was prepared to abide by common agreements.

Calling for an early Art. 50 move is not just a petty desire to rebuke but a call to minimise the disruption and uncertainty. If you have ever been involved in a divorce, you will know how messy and acrimonious things can become, and that's just between two people. Take two states and things become a lot more complicated.

And how is it bullying? The EU has bent over backwards to appease the UK. For years they received the so-called Thatcher Rebate; they were not required to enter the Schengen agreement: they were not required to adopt the Euro.

It certainly doesn't look as if the French and Germans were the most effective "bullies". Naturally they express their views but they have been far from able to impose them, whatever hysterical claims to the contrary are made.
 
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RobK
Posts: 4047
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:31 am

HGL wrote:
The EU has bent over backwards to appease the UK.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

Thanks for the laugh of the day.
 
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Braybuddy
Posts: 6973
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:00 am

What has been a monumental turn-off has now turned into one of the most fascinating stories of the year! I had suspected that the UK would finally vote out, as my friends in the UK have been talking of voting to leave for a long while. The UK were never fully comfortable with being part of the EU, so I suppose a split at some stage was inevitable.

When the dust settles, it will be interesting to see the effect this will have on younger voters who mostly voted to remain and will now have the right to work freely anywhere in the EU taken away from them. Will they form a protest movement in advance of the UK's exit?

The next UK general election will be the most fascinating for decades.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23455
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:23 am

Klaus

I guess after all these years, we finally got the answer to the question.

Do we want the Euro in the UK? No :lol:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1090251
 
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SAS A340
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:44 am

Image

Scary thought but it is entirely possible that one of them becomes president of the United States and the second prime minister of the UK...... :shock:
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20124
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:57 am

gkirk wrote:
Klaus

I guess after all these years, we finally got the answer to the question.

Do we want the Euro in the UK? No :lol:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1090251


Careful there, Kirky, old boy. If Queen Nicola gets her way, you'll have the Euro soon enough. :o
 
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HGL
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 3:25 am

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:59 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Will they form a protest movement in advance of the UK's exit?
The next UK general election will be the most fascinating for decades.

Apparently an online parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum attracted more than 520,000 votes and the demand caused the site to crash for a while.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-website

Of course the Leave campaign have dismissed the petition, saying that it is simply sour grapes on the part of the losers. But prior to the vote, Farage of UKIP had stated that he would demand a second referendum if the Remain vote only achieved 52%. He had previously claimed, “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... um-7985017
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:25 am

HGL wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Will they form a protest movement in advance of the UK's exit?
The next UK general election will be the most fascinating for decades.

Apparently an online parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum attracted more than 520,000 votes and the demand caused the site to crash for a while.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-website

Of course the Leave campaign have dismissed the petition, saying that it is simply sour grapes on the part of the losers. But prior to the vote, Farage of UKIP had stated that he would demand a second referendum if the Remain vote only achieved 52%. He had previously claimed, “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... um-7985017


You could possibly now see UK politics become as divisive and poisonous as US politics. We live in interesting times . . .

Of course the only real winner here is Putin, who has been funding anti-EU movements across the continent. And the Irish passport office, which has had to hire 200 extra staff to keep up with demand:
http://www.beat102103.com/news/brexit-r ... sports-uk/

I expect they'll be even busier on Monday . . .
 
GDB
Posts: 14396
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:31 am

HGL wrote:
[quote="777Jet

And how is it bullying? The EU has bent over backwards to appease the UK. For years they received the so-called Thatcher Rebate; they were not required to enter the Schengen agreement: they were not required to adopt the Euro.

It certainly doesn't look as if the French and Germans were the most effective "bullies". Naturally they express their views but they have been far from able to impose them, whatever hysterical claims to the contrary are made.


Quite right, it's not 'funny' it's a fact. So not mentioned by the Brexit camp.
Still less mentioned was the over 1 million Brits living in the EU, in many cases elderly and retired.
Too many of them come home and that will be a major strain on services such as health, as opposed to say mostly young people coming here to work/pay taxes and their major contact with the health and social services is working in them.
 
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seahawk
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Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:27 am

 
Derico
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:29 am

I'll play Devil's advocate here and give the "EU" credit here: at least they do permit members to exit the union.

I wonder how many people in the United States, or my country Argentina, or for that matter any western hemisphere country that are congratulating the UK for quitting the EU, will be equally fair-minded to allow one of their states or provinces to leave their "union". Why is leaving some Unions OK but leaving others not OK?

The US fought a civil war over break-away provinces, so did Argentina, and other countries. Why is it OK in some cases to use war to subjugate those wanting to leave in some places, but not in others?

The excuse that "it was another time" back in the 1800s when those wars were fought is very thin, since we all know if some state really wanted to break away and had enough might to go to war for it, the response from the capital would be swift and bloody. Sure, there are not enough votes in any US state, or Argentine province for secession but if there were and went through with it, I have no doubts they would be ruthlessly crushed.

Why are some Unions dissoluble and others not?
 
VapourTrails
Posts: 3939
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:16 am

HGL wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Will they form a protest movement in advance of the UK's exit?
The next UK general election will be the most fascinating for decades.

Apparently an online parliamentary petition calling for a second referendum attracted more than 520,000 votes and the demand caused the site to crash for a while.

Of course the Leave campaign have dismissed the petition, saying that it is simply sour grapes on the part of the losers. But prior to the vote, Farage of UKIP had stated that he would demand a second referendum if the Remain vote only achieved 52%. He had previously claimed, “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.”


So this move to push for a second referendum.. There can't be a second one, just because the democratic vote didn't 'come out right' the first time.. WT# And what is this demanding.. First time I've seen this guy in action this week (Farage).. WTF.. This disunity and all the rest of it, it is just .. Can't find the words for it really.

U.K., what just happened.. For all those people that are saying, I feel ashamed of my country.. etc. I feel that is something that no one every really says lightly, particularly about one of the above fore mentioned nations. :/

I am feeling a range of emotions this past 72 hours that I have not felt before in my life.
Last edited by VapourTrails on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
GDB
Posts: 14396
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:17 am

seahawk wrote:


The first makes makes me recall what Johnny Lydon AKA 'Rotten' said at the last Sex Pistols concert in the US in 1978 fed up with mismanagement, 'ever had the feeling you've been cheated?'

The second shows that Johnson is not only someone who does not care for 'detail' it also I suspect indicates his sudden, unexpected move to Brexit right after indicating to Cameron he was for Remain, was a ploy to get him to Downing Street after a narrow Remain win made Cameron's authority as PM unviable and he would ride in as a 'unity' candidate to bring his party back together.
Well if he does become PM, he will have a whole mess to untangle that he perhaps did not expect a few months ago.
 
VapourTrails
Posts: 3939
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:23 am

seahawk wrote:
Seems like even the leavers no longer want to leave.

That was a given, they even interviewed one lady on TV who said just this. Sheesh. Maybe people should be more fully informed about what they are voting for, and do some reading, and not just listen to others' #

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