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Braybuddy
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:00 pm

pvjin wrote:
I don't mind lack of democracy if I agree with the ruler, and I do very much agree with Putin on many issues. But if the elite is too irresponsible to rule, like in Europe where they are mostly either greedy neoliberals with no principles other than money or self hating commies, then democracy is a better option than any form of dictatorship or aristocracy.


Well, at least you're being honest. The only problem with dictators is that they may not always agree with you . . .
 
EricAY05
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:00 pm

Has anyone else noticed how all the media outlets are now panicking about how the GBP is plummeting, but no-one really cared when their precious EUR went from 1.30 to 1.04 against the USD last year?

Also, in early 2009 the USD vs. GBP rate was at about the same level as now and back then the UK was not leaving the EU. For a brief moment the EUR and the GBP were almost 1:1, while now the change was 0.76 => 0.83. I admit that the changes during the last week have been very rapid, but wasn't this expected to happen if the Exit camp won? It's not like its absolutely sure that the GBP will continue to plummet and not bounce back when the markets calm down.
 
na
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:51 pm

Last week the english people voted like villagers, today the english Football team shows the same quality. Unbelievable.
 
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n229nw
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:52 pm

It seems Roy Hodgson is a man who believes in the democratic will of the people and has taken England out of Europe before Boris...
 
GDB
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:03 pm

sebolino wrote:
scbriml wrote:
klaus wrote:
No she does not


And it's possible that no PM will ever activate the article 50, leaving the UK where it is. Considering the mess on the financial markets and the number of regrexit voters ...


A poll in the Sunday Mail indicates over a million Brexit voters now regret it.
This is due to the shock of the turmoil as well the within 24 hrs all of the main campaigning slogans of Brexit being cheerfully tossed aside.
And this is only going to get worse, the anger rising.

Small wonder Boris and co are none too keen to press the Article 50 button, that was a small bit of revenge by Cameron, passing the responsibility and risk to them. Hence the 'please stay on if you lose' begging letter to him during the campaign.
They clearly are out of their depth.

Pressure from Europe, economic instability, a divided country which is now getting something else to be angry about, plus fear of the unknown.
Brexit really did not think this through, did they?

tommy1808, that sign, another Brexit history making moment, for the first time migration from the UK to Ireland, rather as for most of our history, certainly within living memory, the other way around.
Last edited by GDB on Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Klaus
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:05 pm

https://twitter.com/Tim_Burgess/status/ ... 3696177152
To leave Europe once may be regarded as a misfortune. To leave twice in a week looks like carelessness #brexit #engisl #oscarwilde
 
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n229nw
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:05 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Boris Johnson wrote:
British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down.


Image

best regards
Thomas


It is truly amazing to me that Boris can still be spouting these 100% outright and immediately disprovable lies--that Brits will be able to have full travel rights but other EU nationals won't and that Britain will be able to access the common market without following its rules--and yet he isn't called on them more forcefully.

Labour is too busy completely self-destructing in a glorious fireball to even offer anything to the national debate right now.

Dark days.
 
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par13del
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:26 pm

As for the first official departure of the UK from Europe on a 2-1 vote I mean loss, as harsh as it may sound, when was the last time the English squad won anything major - 1966?
In other news, I see a whole new labour cabinet is now getting ready to shadow the Leave movement.
 
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pu
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:30 pm

Turkey and South Africa have free trade agreements with the EU.

Canada and the EU are near to a free trade agreement that does not include free movement of people. The EU and US are negotiating a free trade agreement (TTIP) whose major sticking points are matters like ag subsidies, product standards and intellectual property which are already harmonised between the UK and the EU.

Just as Canada, Turkey, S Africa and the US do not and will likely never meet the full requirements of access to the internal EU market inisted upon by the most aggressive EU supporters here for Britain....is there any reason for denying Britain's wish for free trade only (without free movement of people) other than

1. an impulse to punish, and,
2. an anti-populist desire to prevent other European countries from democratically expressing their will like the UK has done?






Pu.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU referendum today

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:57 pm

If the UK wants to sell goods, and those goods follow EU rules of compliance, then there will be no problem trading. Doing it for free, that might be more complicated, some tariffs are to be expected.

The problem is that the UK is a service economy, it wants to sell services, especially financial services. And that's another ballgame entirely.
 
aloges
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:14 am

pu wrote:
is there any reason for denying Britain's wish for free trade only

That is not their wish. The Leave campaign's many blunders and lies apparently included a complete misrepresentation of the European single market as a free trade area, but it is much more than that. This "much more" is the main reason why EU regulations on e.g. trade exist. You can find more on the difference here: How the EU single market works and the benefits it offers.
Since the referendum, the Brexiteers seem to have realised that there is a slight difference between an FTA and the single market, but if the madness continues and the UK does leave, the EU will of course be asking "What's in it for us?" during the negotiations on the future trade relationship. And if that doesn't include reciprocal free market access, there will be no access to the single market for the UK - or what's left of it.
Last edited by aloges on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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pu
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:17 am

Aesma wrote:
If the UK wants to sell goods, and those goods follow EU rules of compliance, then there will be no problem trading. Doing it for free, that might be more complicated, some tariffs are to be expected.

The problem is that the UK is a service economy, it wants to sell services, especially financial services. And that's another ballgame entirely.


Ok, but again other than a desire to punish or prevent other nations from wanting the same deal, why stipulate servives are "another ballgame entirely" ?


Pu.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:20 am

pu wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the UK wants to sell goods, and those goods follow EU rules of compliance, then there will be no problem trading. Doing it for free, that might be more complicated, some tariffs are to be expected.

The problem is that the UK is a service economy, it wants to sell services, especially financial services. And that's another ballgame entirely.


Ok, but again other than a desire to punish or prevent other nations from wanting the same deal, why stipulate servives are "another ballgame entirely" ?


Pu.


Because providing services may entail movement of people, which is the main reason why Brexit exists in the first place - to stop free movement of people into the UK.
 
aloges
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:26 am

pu wrote:
why stipulate services are "another ballgame entirely"?

In addition to what TheFlyingDisk said (he beat me to it):
Providing a service usually means travelling to the place where the service is needed. If, for instance, an Arup employee oversees a project on the mainland, she will need to go there at some point. Today, she doesn't need a visa or work permit. Tomorrow, she might.
It also requires free movement of capital. How attractive would it be to pay extra for the services of a British professional if those services can be provided by someone from the single market without added costs?
 
prebennorholm
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:54 am

EricAY05 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed how all the media outlets are now panicking about how the GBP is plummeting, but no-one really cared when their precious EUR went from 1.30 to 1.04 against the USD last year?

"no-one cared"? That was during the Grexit crisis. Wonder in what cave you hided.

EricAY05 wrote:
Also, in early 2009 the USD vs. GBP rate was at about the same level as now and back then the UK was not leaving the EU.

That was when the GFC had flattened half of the British banks.

Brexit is a major issue, but measured on a scale it is nothing like the magnitude of Grexit or GFC, more like a minor bump on the road. And it is mostly local, meaning a noticeable decrease of buying power by UK citizens, and not much more.

The present collapse of the GBP is due to a foreign rush to withdraw from engagements with British banks, no more, no less.
 
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zckls04
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:42 am

I think the Europhiles are making a couple of basic mistakes. Firstly, assuming that the same party that sold the whole country down the river won't be quite happy to delay invocation of article 50 for political reasons- even if it's to the detriment of the country in the long term. The whole referendum was political in nature- one has to assume it will continue to be so.

Secondly, and far more importantly, whether they like it or not, this result does send a message. The EU is reaping what it has sowed to some extent, and the UK isn't the only country with considerable skepticism for the union. Those who are stressing the EU's need to punish the UK for their disloyalty might do well to consider why such a move is necessary.
 
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seahawk
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:52 am

It is now time to get a PM with some backbone in UK and do it. The British people have spoken and they have decided to bear every burden and take every risk if it means to be free again.
 
tommy1808
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:54 am

zckls04 wrote:
Secondly, and far more importantly, whether they like it or not, this result does send a message. The EU is reaping what it has sowed to some extent, and the UK isn't the only country with considerable skepticism for the union. .


Yup, we´ve learned that even in one of the, if not most, EU-critical country you barely get a mandate to leave even if you use truckloads of lies.

Those who are stressing the EU's need to punish the UK for their disloyalty might do well to consider why such a move is necessary.


I don´t think anyone wants to punish them in a real sense, but there is also no reason to treat the UK any different from any other other country that wants to reap the benefits from the outside. It would be utterly unfair towards Switzerland and Norway to give the UK a deal that is even slightly better than theirs. And they are part of the Schengen Area, not just free movement of people.
 
tommy1808
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:56 am

prebennorholm wrote:
And it is mostly local, meaning a noticeable decrease of buying power by UK citizens, and not much more.


Which all the associated effects on the economy that usually strings along, which will have effects on its trade partners as well.

best regards
Thomas
 
EricAY05
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:25 am

prebennorholm wrote:
EricAY05 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed how all the media outlets are now panicking about how the GBP is plummeting, but no-one really cared when their precious EUR went from 1.30 to 1.04 against the USD last year?

"no-one cared"? That was during the Grexit crisis. Wonder in what cave you hided.

EricAY05 wrote:
Also, in early 2009 the USD vs. GBP rate was at about the same level as now and back then the UK was not leaving the EU.

That was when the GFC had flattened half of the British banks.

Brexit is a major issue, but measured on a scale it is nothing like the magnitude of Grexit or GFC, more like a minor bump on the road. And it is mostly local, meaning a noticeable decrease of buying power by UK citizens, and not much more.


Exactly, but the media at least here in Finland constantly tries to make Brexit sound like the largest disaster in European history since WWII. The exchange rate of the GBP and horror stories of how British tourists are not able to exchange currencies abroad because no-one wants the Pound is one important aspect of the media's attempts to exaggerate the effects of Brexit. There were no such stories during the events you mentioned. Or does my memory fail me and there were?
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:10 am

The short term effects have already happened and won't probably get much worse, losing more than 10% on my portfolio despite having not much to do with the UK or the pound is still significant though.

The long term effects are still unknown, since even the UK doesn't know what it wants.

Meanwhile, when you read that Poland wants to remove the commission to replace it not by the parliament but by the european council, you understand that things might go pear shaped quickly.
 
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winterlight
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:39 am

EricAY05 wrote:
the media's attempts to exaggerate the effects of Brexit


That's the pro-EU state controlled media for you.
 
tommy1808
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:53 am

winterlight wrote:
EricAY05 wrote:
the media's attempts to exaggerate the effects of Brexit


That's the pro-EU state controlled media for you.


And who is behind it this time? The Jews, ISIS, communists?

best regards
Thomas
 
aloges
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:10 am

winterlight wrote:
EricAY05 wrote:
the media's attempts to exaggerate the effects of Brexit


That's the pro-EU state controlled media for you.

Sky News is part of the "pro-EU state controlled media"?

Vote Leave Tory MP "There is no plan" post Brexit - Sky News 26.6.2016
 
TheSonntag
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:36 am

Merkel just said "no cherry picking". If you want the EU market, you must offer the same to us.

Maybe the only healthy Thing about this Referendum is the fact that the brexiteers finally have to show what they want. Populism against the EU is easy as long as you are in the opposition.
 
tommy1808
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:42 am

TheSonntag wrote:
Maybe the only healthy Thing about this Referendum is the fact that the brexiteers finally have to show what they want. Populism against the EU is easy as long as you are in the opposition.


Almost more important: zero negotiations, official or otherwise, before the intention to leave is formally announced.

best regards
Thomas
 
Olddog
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:51 am

The UK referendum made a huge gift to EU. Now things can going on without UK braking all the time, asking for special deals and not contributing like everybody else. :mrgreen:
 
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scbriml
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:11 am

TheSonntag wrote:
Merkel just said "no cherry picking". If you want the EU market, you must offer the same to us.


Of course. If any of the Brexiters really thought it could be anything else, then they're stupid and naive on top of being lairs. The furious back-peddling in interviews over the last few days would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

TheSonntag wrote:
Maybe the only healthy Thing about this Referendum is the fact that the brexiteers finally have to show what they want. Populism against the EU is easy as long as you are in the opposition.


Certainly a prime example of "careful what you wish for".
 
agill
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:20 am

scbriml wrote:
TheSonntag wrote:
Merkel just said "no cherry picking". If you want the EU market, you must offer the same to us.


Of course. If any of the Brexiters really thought it could be anything else, then they're stupid and naive on top of being lairs. The furious back-peddling in interviews over the last few days would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.


The more you read about this whole Brexit thing, you get the feeling that no one of the leaders really wanted to Brexit. Now they are just running around while their supporters try to find an angle you can view this mess where it's doesn't look all bad. What on earth were they looking for?
 
aloges
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:42 am

agill wrote:
The more you read about this whole Brexit thing, you get the feeling that no one of the leaders really wanted to Brexit.

Certainly does look like it... for a start, it's going to cost Farage a very lucrative and cozy job if it happens.

agill wrote:
What on earth were they looking for?

Popularity.
 
GDB
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:58 am

Prior to the Scottish Referendum, the SNP published a several hundred page document detailing how they would proceed following a successful campaign for independence.
There were holes in it, notably around what currency and (ironically) how they would become an EU member as a new country and not adopt the Euro, an idea they once supported but was now politically toxic. Staying in the UK avoided that and was IMHO the main reason, with the associated economic uncertainty, why they lost.

Even allowing for two separate campaigns, as well as the Leave or stay in the EU support being split within the Tories along with a few Labour eccentrics - including, perhaps, as many suspect, by the Labour 'leader' in the privacy of the polling booth, no such plan ever emerged from the Brexit camp.

At least the SNP had a plan, however flawed.
Which I guess is why there is such chaos now, that and of course any such plan would have been taken apart by the Remain camp during the campaign.
Cameron thought that winning the Scottish referendum was a sign of how to do the same with this vote, unfortunately he seems not to have considered that the other side would draw lessons from Scotland in 2014 too.
 
GDB
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:08 pm

[/quote]Certainly does look like it... for a start, it's going to cost Farage a very lucrative and cozy job if it happens. [/quote]

He failed seven times in attempts to become a MP. which considering the expenses he has racked up in all his years as a MEP, to the extent it has made him if not actually, then close to being a millionaire - his German wife handles all of that - has saved the UK taxpayer some £.
Although of course as he has always pointed out, the EU gets money from the UK so part of his expenses, come from us.

For that he has always done the bare minimum, one example, he is on the fisheries committee and attended one out of 43 possible meetings in his time in Brussels.
That so many were fooled by this money grabbing, saloon/golf club bore, with his cheery racism should be a source of national shame.
Boris is not the closet to Trump we have got, it's Farage.
 
victrola
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:40 pm

pu wrote:
Turkey and South Africa have free trade agreements with the EU.

Canada and the EU are near to a free trade agreement that does not include free movement of people. The EU and US are negotiating a free trade agreement (TTIP) whose major sticking points are matters like ag subsidies, product standards and intellectual property which are already harmonised between the UK and the EU.

Just as Canada, Turkey, S Africa and the US do not and will likely never meet the full requirements of access to the internal EU market inisted upon by the most aggressive EU supporters here for Britain....is there any reason for denying Britain's wish for free trade only (without free movement of people) other than

1. an impulse to punish, and,
2. an anti-populist desire to prevent other European countries from democratically expressing their will like the UK has done?




Pu.



A free trade agreement is not the same as being part of a customs union. The EU is a customs union. Working as I do with Mexico and other countries with which the U.S. has a free trade agreement, I still have to fill out all kinds of paper work and my goods going into Mexico still have to go through Mexican customs procedures. All of this incurs a lot of transactional costs.

Then you have to take into account all sorts of country of origin rules to make sure that the UK products being shipped into Europe meet the qualifications as UK origin goods. Just because a product is being shipped from the UK to Europe doesn't mean that the product is of UK origin and qualifies for duty free entry into Europe.

Right now a UK company can send a shipment of goods to France just as easily as I can send a shipment from Illinois to Texas. This will not be the case if there is merely a free trade agreement.
 
victrola
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:49 pm

If I were David Cameron, after losing the referendum I would have said " We have lost and I have just informed Brussels that we are invoking Article 50. But don't worry because Boris Johnson has it all figured out. I am resigning and will be vacating 10 Downing street as soon as the movers can get us out and my wife and I are looking at buying a place in Edinburgh" The next election I expect to be voting for the Scottish Nationalists" :D
 
vrbarreto
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:52 pm

victrola wrote:
If I were David Cameron, after losing the referendum I would have said " We have lost and I have just informed Brussels that we are invoking Article 50. But don't worry because Boris Johnson has it all figured out. I am resigning and will be vacating 10 Downing street as soon as the movers can get us out and my wife and I are looking at buying a place in Edinburgh" The next election I expect to be voting for the Scottish Nationalists" :D


Don't see why Cameron should start the process of leaving which he was so much against.. LEave it to one of the Brexit leaders.

Let them take the flak for anything that happens.
 
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pvjin
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:53 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... pean-union

A good view from Obama regarding all this stupid hysteria promoted by trashy western media. The UK isn't going to suffer much in long term, nor will the EU collapse overnight. There's no more to this hysteria than just trashy liberal pro EU media doing its best to frighten people as usual.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:15 pm

GDB wrote:
A poll in the Sunday Mail indicates over a million Brexit voters now regret it.
This is due to the shock of the turmoil as well the within 24 hrs all of the main campaigning slogans of Brexit being cheerfully tossed aside.


More desperate straw clutching. So this poll you're on about - has it occured to you that the majority of those million votes were actually done not by brexiters, but by bitter remainers? :idea: Or do you truly believe that a million voters have suddenly changed their mind in the space of 3 days? :roll: :lol:
 
teahan
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:31 pm

RobK wrote:
More desperate straw clutching. So this poll you're on about - has it occured to you that the majority of those million votes were actually done not by brexiters, but by bitter remainers? :idea: Or do you truly believe that a million voters have suddenly changed their mind in the space of 3 days? :roll: :lol:


This wouldn't have caused more than a few people to change their mind?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-36641390

Immigration

The campaign claim: Immigration levels could be controlled if the UK left the EU. This would relieve pressure on public services.

The current claim: Immigration levels can't be radically reduced by leaving the EU. Fears about immigration did not influence the way people voted.

Reality Check verdict: During the campaign, some Leave campaigners sent a clear message that the referendum was about controlling immigration. Some are now being more nuanced, saying the UK's decision to leave the EU would not guarantee a significant decrease in immigration levels.

Contributions to the EU budget

The campaign claim: We send £350m a week to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.

The current claim: The claim was a mistake, and we will not be able to spend that much extra on the NHS.

Reality Check verdict: Some of those who campaigned for Leave are now distancing themselves from this claim. Some have gone as far as admitting that it had been a mistake.

The single market

The campaign claim: Some on the Leave side suggested the UK does not need preferential access to the single market.

The current claim: The UK should get preferential access to the single market but will not have to accept freedom of movement to get it.

Reality Check verdict: The position has shifted from claims the UK could trade under World Trade Organisation rules to one which suggests the UK will continue to have preferential access to the single market, but at the same time having some control over immigration levels.
 
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pvjin
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:44 pm

According to the Finnish media suddenly after the Brexit vote the UK has overnight became a racist country where migrants of all kind, including Finnish ones, are being harassed on a regular basis.

Can any people in the UK confirm that the UK is indeed becoming something like third reich and that a genocide of all people not British is imminent?
 
vrbarreto
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:55 pm

pvjin wrote:
According to the Finnish media suddenly after the Brexit vote the UK has overnight became a racist country where migrants of all kind, including Finnish ones, are being harassed on a regular basis.

Can any people in the UK confirm that the UK is indeed becoming something like third reich and that a genocide of all people not British is imminent?


Not quite but it does seem to have emboldened the less than savoury elements of society.. I've seen it in the office..

Some idiots seem to think that because we have voted to leave the EU that it is open season on anyone different..

The number of these cretins hasn't increased...they've decided that they can make their views public. They'll soon crawl back under their rocks.

I'm more interested in the formerly most hated man in Britain Jeremy Hunt throwing his hat in the ring...

I would have thought he would have been extra busy thinking about where he would spend the £350m per week in the NHS

And oh yeah.. some British people who are ethnic minorities have been verbally abused.. Nothing physical so far as far as I know.
 
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RobK
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Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:02 pm

teahan wrote:
RobK wrote:
More desperate straw clutching. So this poll you're on about - has it occured to you that the majority of those million votes were actually done not by brexiters, but by bitter remainers? :idea: Or do you truly believe that a million voters have suddenly changed their mind in the space of 3 days? :roll: :lol:


This wouldn't have caused more than a few people to change their mind?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-36641390

Immigration

The campaign claim: Immigration levels could be controlled if the UK left the EU. This would relieve pressure on public services.

The current claim: Immigration levels can't be radically reduced by leaving the EU. Fears about immigration did not influence the way people voted.

Reality Check verdict: During the campaign, some Leave campaigners sent a clear message that the referendum was about controlling immigration. Some are now being more nuanced, saying the UK's decision to leave the EU would not guarantee a significant decrease in immigration levels.

Contributions to the EU budget

The campaign claim: We send £350m a week to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.

The current claim: The claim was a mistake, and we will not be able to spend that much extra on the NHS.

Reality Check verdict: Some of those who campaigned for Leave are now distancing themselves from this claim. Some have gone as far as admitting that it had been a mistake.

The single market

The campaign claim: Some on the Leave side suggested the UK does not need preferential access to the single market.

The current claim: The UK should get preferential access to the single market but will not have to accept freedom of movement to get it.

Reality Check verdict: The position has shifted from claims the UK could trade under World Trade Organisation rules to one which suggests the UK will continue to have preferential access to the single market, but at the same time having some control over immigration levels.


All of which was freely available to everyone to read and research PRIOR to the vote. Your argument has no foundations. Keep clutching.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20120
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:14 pm

teahan wrote:
This wouldn't have caused more than a few people to change their mind?


Yeah, the sound of the Brexit leaders furiously back-peddling on all their campaign promises is deafening.

pvjin wrote:
Can any people in the UK confirm that the UK is indeed becoming something like third reich and that a genocide of all people not British is imminent?


No, the UK is not becoming something like the third reich. :roll:

Yes, there have been some idiotic racist incidents involving graffiti and some spiteful notes posted in letterboxes. While abhorrent, these incidents should not be taken as the norm or even a trend. Sadly, there are racists everywhere, even in Finland.

These are the same type of idiots who have been complaining that the Government's website is out of date!
Image
 
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par13del
Posts: 10969
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:30 pm

...which is all a part of the orderly process of disengagement then re-engagement.
To hear some of the comments some would think that this would happen overnight. It should be noted that one of the tenents of the EU and its numerous rules, regulations and treaties is / was to ensure that the process of leaving was so complicated (some would say onerous) that no one would dare attempt to try.
The sooner the Article 50 is invoked the sooner the more calm, clearheaded and innovative folks will come to the fore to start the process.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10384
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:37 pm

Freedom must be won, the vote was just the first step. It now takes a leader with a vision to enforce the needs of the British. It is the greatest chance the Uk had since ages and the biggest victory for democracy since the defeat of Germany.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:46 pm

RobK wrote:
All of which was freely available to everyone to read and research PRIOR to the vote. Your argument has no foundations. Keep clutching.


Unfortunately voters don´t have to proof they are about to make an informed decision to vote. Google Trend data clearly shows that many people did not back-check facts before they voted.
I mean you can´t sue Redbull because drinking it doesn´t give you the ability to fly, but there are still people living with the illusion that they can just believe people and populists are, hence the name, especially good in exploiting that weakness.

As an Italien newspaper put it "The United Kingdom didn´t leave - they never joined".

As a taxpayer i am fairly happy that i don´t have to subsidize the UK anymore, to the tune of a couple of billions per year, and that funding can be used to finance something useful instead of Marget Thatchers hissy fits.

Without the UK at the table TTIP in its current form is as good as dead. Thank you very much in deed for that.

best regards
Thomas
 
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par13del
Posts: 10969
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:49 pm

Always wondered why the TTIP was not 50/50, so if dead that should be a good thing for all sides.
I think the UK was a net contributor even with their discounts so not much savings there.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm

seahawk wrote:
Freedom must be won, the vote was just the first step. It now takes a leader with a vision to enforce the needs of the British. It is the greatest chance the Uk had since ages and the biggest victory for democracy since the defeat of Germany.


...they joined the EU because their economy was down the drain, benefited enormously from joining, and now leaves, because that is better. Right. Worked so well before, right...

best regards
Thomas
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14664
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:57 pm

par13del wrote:
Always wondered why the TTIP was not 50/50, so if dead that should be a good thing for all sides.
I think the UK was a net contributor even with their discounts so not much savings there.


TTIP will still come, but have a lots more EU in it. Reducing consumer rights and protections went well with the UK negotiators, but not so well with the rest.

The UK was a net contributor, but Germany and France picked up much of its tap . I much rather make up the shortfall of the needy out of my pocket, than the desires of the greedy.

best regards
Thomas
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14753
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:11 pm

pvjin wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/28/barack-obama-brexit-hysteria-european-union

A good view from Obama regarding all this stupid hysteria promoted by trashy western media. The UK isn't going to suffer much in long term, nor will the EU collapse overnight. There's no more to this hysteria than just trashy liberal pro EU media doing its best to frighten people as usual.


Despite being well liked here, Obama has never shown an interest in Europe, so his opinions on a subject he doesn't know and doesn't care about are not worth much.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14753
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: EU referendum today

Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:13 pm

seahawk wrote:
Freedom must be won, the vote was just the first step. It now takes a leader with a vision to enforce the needs of the British. It is the greatest chance the Uk had since ages and the biggest victory for democracy since the defeat of Germany.


A victory for democracy would have been to have that leader and a plan as part of the vote.

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