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pvjin
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Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:02 pm

According to our secretary of interior ministry Päivi Nerg Finland welcomes returning ISIS fighters back, and has a specialized program to help them adapt back to the mainstream society. The returning fighters will not be treated as criminals unless there's actual evidence of them committing some crime (which is rarely the case as simply belonging to ISIS isn't a crime here), but as traumatized individuals. Apparently many different organizations are involved in this program, including the red cross and our church.There's not much info yet regarding what exactly this program will include, but if anything like the one in Sweden probably among other things it will help the individuals to find a place to study or employment, and they will be encouraged to abandon radical thinking.

My source in Finnish:

http://www.ksml.fi/kotimaa/Sis%C3%A4min ... sta/799271

So what do you think, how should these people be treated? Now that ISIS is losing more and more ground in the Middle East it's likely that more members of ISIS will return, and there's clearly no way of truly knowing what's inside their head.

My personal opinion is that they should be all jailed for rest of their lives for belonging to ISIS, but unfortunately that's not an option in a weak western liberal democracy such as Finland so they will be free to prepare spectacular attacks on our soil.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:52 pm

So what do you think, how should these people be treated? Now that ISIS is losing more and more ground in the Middle East it's likely that more members of ISIS will return, and there's clearly no way of truly knowing what's inside their head.

My personal opinion is that they should be all jailed for rest of their lives for belonging to ISIS, but unfortunately that's not an option in a weak western liberal democracy such as Finland so they will be free to prepare spectacular attacks on our soil.


ISIS said over the last few days that while they are losing territory, they will be concentrating more on terrorism in Europe and elsewhere. I would not trust these pricks.

There is a growing justification for concentration camps. I'm not talking about extermination camps of course, but walled off communities where people whose values cannot coexist with ours (such as if you think insulting Mohamed, leaving Islam, or kissing a boy before marriage deserves death) can be kept separate from the rest of us. Within the camp they can practice Sharia all they want. And if they want to leave the country, they would be allowed to do so (in fact they would be happily given a one-way plane ticket).
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seb146
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:25 pm

Some of these fighters are returning because they found the paradise they were promised did not exist. As bad as life was presented to them before, the reality was much worse. I think that, with help reversing their radicalized ideas, some of them will remain peaceful. Yes, some will still try to blow stuff up. You catch more flies with honey, as the saying goes.
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fallap
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:09 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
So what do you think, how should these people be treated? Now that ISIS is losing more and more ground in the Middle East it's likely that more members of ISIS will return, and there's clearly no way of truly knowing what's inside their head.

My personal opinion is that they should be all jailed for rest of their lives for belonging to ISIS, but unfortunately that's not an option in a weak western liberal democracy such as Finland so they will be free to prepare spectacular attacks on our soil.


ISIS said over the last few days that while they are losing territory, they will be concentrating more on terrorism in Europe and elsewhere. I would not trust these pricks.

There is a growing justification for concentration camps. I'm not talking about extermination camps of course, but walled off communities where people whose values cannot coexist with ours (such as if you think insulting Mohamed, leaving Islam, or kissing a boy before marriage deserves death) can be kept separate from the rest of us. Within the camp they can practice Sharia all they want. And if they want to leave the country, they would be allowed to do so (in fact they would be happily given a one-way plane ticket).


Forcing people into closed camps, for having beliefs and opinions that aren't among those you would expect in a modern democracy, is hardly the best way to solve the issue. If you concentrate all the lunatics in one place, you will never be able to turn their minds arounds.

Freedom of expression is not something you can simply adjust, either you have it or you don't. Furthermore, concentration camps and the idea of them having any useful purpose, are best to be left in the past where they belong.
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Braybuddy
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:22 pm

Radicalisation isn't something you can measure, or can "cure", so even if you think someone has been rehabilitated you will never, ever know for sure. I shake my head in despair at the naivety of people sometimes . . .
 
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Aesma
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:34 pm

They might also belong to other groups, ones that fight ISIS.
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scbriml
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:34 pm

[quote="pvjin"][/quote]

So you still haven't emigrated to Russia to be with your hero? :roll:
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Aeri28
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:54 pm

Finland can certainly do as they please, but anybody who joins ISIS in this day and age knows exactly what they are capable of doing.

Personally I feel any returning ISIS joiners should be treated as terrorists and dealt with accordingly. Again, Finlands choice, but at the very least, I certainly hope the potential reformees are put on a list and permanently barred from entering the US (and other countries that choose so).


<- Obama/Hillary supporter, democrat and very liberal
 
TheF15Ace
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:52 am

Aeri28 wrote:
Finland can certainly do as they please, but anybody who joins ISIS in this day and age knows exactly what they are capable of doing.

Personally I feel any returning ISIS joiners should be treated as terrorists and dealt with accordingly. Again, Finlands choice, but at the very least, I certainly hope the potential reformees are put on a list and permanently barred from entering the US (and other countries that choose so).


<- Obama/Hillary supporter, democrat and very liberal


Agreed. If they want to pretend the scum bags were just confused souls that's their right. The least Finland could do is keep them contained within their own borders.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:28 am

pvjin wrote:
According to our secretary of interior ministry Päivi Nerg Finland welcomes returning ISIS fighters back....

Quite frightening that Finland is still a Schengen country.

Maybe with assistance from pvjin Finland can leave the EU and become a CIS country instead? Then at least Mr. Putin might tell them something else.
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NoTime
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:39 am

Aeri28 wrote:
Personally I feel any returning ISIS joiners should be treated as terrorists and dealt with accordingly. Again, Finlands choice, but at the very least, I certainly hope the potential reformees are put on a list and permanently barred from entering the US (and other countries that choose so).


This. x2.

I can't imagine letting these people intermingle with the rest of peaceful/normal society. As the saying goes - they made their bed, now they must sleep in it.

Anyone who would willingly join ISIS is clearly lacking in various mental and/or emotional capacities. It may very well be that these terrorists will never again contemplate committing the various atrocities that ISIS is responsible for... but why in the world would you take that chance?
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:45 am

NoTime wrote:
Aeri28 wrote:
Personally I feel any returning ISIS joiners should be treated as terrorists and dealt with accordingly. Again, Finlands choice, but at the very least, I certainly hope the potential reformees are put on a list and permanently barred from entering the US (and other countries that choose so).


This. x2.

I can't imagine letting these people intermingle with the rest of peaceful/normal society. As the saying goes - they made their bed, now they must sleep in it.

Anyone who would willingly join ISIS is clearly lacking in various mental and/or emotional capacities. It may very well be that these terrorists will never again contemplate committing the various atrocities that ISIS is responsible for... but why in the world would you take that chance?



Exactly. I never subscribed to turning the other cheek, but I do subscribe to killing them before they kill you. Not very Christian, but a good way to say alive.
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Dreadnought
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:47 am

fallap wrote:
Forcing people into closed camps, for having beliefs and opinions that aren't among those you would expect in a modern democracy, is hardly the best way to solve the issue. If you concentrate all the lunatics in one place, you will never be able to turn their minds arounds.

Freedom of expression is not something you can simply adjust, either you have it or you don't. Furthermore, concentration camps and the idea of them having any useful purpose, are best to be left in the past where they belong.


When you live in a tolerant society, and you welcome intolerance into that society, what do you think will happen? I don't want to turn their minds around (good luck doing that) - I just don't want them here.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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HGL
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:13 am

Dreadnought wrote:
When you live in a tolerant society,

It is funny that you should mention tolerance given your signature is "How to brainwash a liberal? Give him an enema."

When I visited Mannheim last year I ventured into a bookshop and purchased Timur Vermes' Er ist wieder da. (He's Back). The book was both funny and troublesome in that it portrayed the way some people still think. The more that I read these forums, the more I think the book's title could be changed to Er war schon immer da. (He was always here)
Qui omnes despicit, omnibus displicit.
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:21 am

HGL wrote:
It is funny that you should mention tolerance given your signature is "How to brainwash a liberal? Give him an enema."


It's called humor, and does not mean that I wish harm on anyone.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:29 am

Dreadnought wrote:
HGL wrote:
It is funny that you should mention tolerance given your signature is "How to brainwash a liberal? Give him an enema."


It's called humor, and does not mean that I wish harm on anyone.



It is. When we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves, we will really be in sad shape. I thought it was kind of funny myself. In fact I will adapt that to use on my Republican friends of which I have many. I just hope I do not have too many Republican friends, It might be bad for Hillary. ;)
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Zkpilot
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:28 am

If they were born Finnish to start with then that's one thing. If they were themselves an immigrant at some point then they should be used as target practice for Army training (but of course human rights blah blah blah which they didn't give any of their victims).
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zkojq
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Re: Finland welcomes ex-ISIS fighters with open arms

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:35 pm

Although I'm a big fan of innocence until guilt can be proven, upon arrival they should be sent straight to prison until the legitimacy of their actions in ISIS territory can be verified. It needs to be made clear that once you join a terrorist group, there is no coming back.

Here the government cancels the passports of people who are suspected of travelling overseas to join ISIS. The beauty is twofold: 1) they're not able to travel back here and cause us harm and 2) that dealing with them is someone else's problem.
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