At least 30 dead and 100 injured as terrorist drives truck into crowds celebrating Bastille day in Nice.

Sickening. RIP

http://news.sky.com/story/live-dozens-killed-in-france-truck-attack-10502078

Around 60 dead according to iTELE. No info on the attackers yet, at least two.

I have a lot of family in Nice, fortunately they were all watching the fireworks from the home of an aunt and not the promenade des anglais.

So sad. I haven't heard anyone confirm this was a terrorist attack, but it will not surprise me if that turns out to be the fact.

73 dead, 100 injured is the current current count.

DDR wrote:

So sad. I haven't heard anyone confirm this was a terrorist attack, but it will not surprise me if that turns out to be the fact.

From what I have gleamed one would think so.
Driving several miles down the promenade running over pedestrians and getting into gunfire with police is generally not called a medical event.

Okie

So at this point can we say it was another fanatical Muslim committing jihad ?

Tragic and incomprehensible. Nice is an amazing city with wonderful people. Just today I was reminiscing about my stay there, and listening to "Nissa la Bella". Condolences to everyone affected.

I'm sickened that things like these happen, and I'm worried about finding myself one step closer to pvjin's views after each incident. I fear this "let's pretend this didn't happen and has no connection to the refugees or the infestation of Islam extremists" attitude has left Europe without civilized options a while ago.

Looks like he had grenades and guns in possession. Unknown if it is an Islamic attack , or just another lone wolf mass murderer at this point. I would suspect the former. Either way, folks feel a bit less safe, and a joyous event was turned into tragedy

casinterest wrote:

Looks like he had grenades and guns in possession. Unknown if it is an Islamic attack , or just another lone wolf mass murderer at this point. I would suspect the former. Either way, folks feel a bit less safe, and a joyous event was turned into tragedy

It is difficult to obtain firearms in France. Generally, to amass them in any quantity requires either government license (law enforcement agencies, military, etc.) or an international smuggling network.

And grenades and such are similar. So on balance, I'd say a terrorist attack with the cooperation of an international network is most likely.

DocLightning wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Looks like he had grenades and guns in possession. Unknown if it is an Islamic attack , or just another lone wolf mass murderer at this point. I would suspect the former. Either way, folks feel a bit less safe, and a joyous event was turned into tragedy

It is difficult to obtain firearms in France. Generally, to amass them in any quantity requires either government license (law enforcement agencies, military, etc.) or an international smuggling network.

And grenades and such are similar. So on balance, I'd say a terrorist attack with the cooperation of an international network is most likely.

Difficult to manufacture a 5,000 to 7,000 pound bomb in the US but McVeigh did. Took out a federal building and 168 people which a large number were children in daycare.

The police got to be some kind of brave to approach that truck.

Okie

People rush to determine the fallout of things like this while the 'event' hasn't even ended yet. There is little we can do to help from thousands of miles away (suggestions welcome). It's saddening to see such anguish in so many parts of the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... is-vehicle

Guardian now says count is up to 77.

DocLightning wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle

Guardian now says count is up to 77.

Per the article the attacker may be French-Tunisian (Dual Citizenship).

casinterest wrote:

Per the article the attacker may be French-Tunisian (Dual Citizenship).

Not exactly an enormous shock.

This just shows how security measures can't stop every attack. You can have all the barriers, checkpoints, metal detectors, armed guards etc in any building, museum, sports stadium, school etc but nothing will stop anyone just flipping out, jumping into their car and driving it at high speed into a crowd of people. Are we going to stop people from owning cars? Are we going to ban crowds gathering in large places? If some people want to kill people they will find ways of doing it. It's time to address the root causes, not the symptoms.

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

What the heck are you babbling about? It is all over the news and FB, Twitter etc...

DocLightning wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Per the article the attacker may be French-Tunisian (Dual Citizenship).

Not exactly an enormous shock.

Not for you Doc, and most certainly not for me. Real life and years of the world experiencing this horror should tell people that it was not a runaway truck.

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

Our news broadcasting is not too bad, with broadcasting world events - regardless of whether the citizens are involved or not. However, I now mainly use Internet sites, for news outside my own country. Next year I will upgrade my TV so I can run the Internet through it too. http://www.france24.com/en/ This is a real good site for 24/7 live, for anything happening in Europe - and the U.S. - and has great focus debates too.

If I choose to run the media through my household on a particular day or part solely not via a national broadcaster (for whatever reason) then it is my, the consumer's choice - and we are spoilt for choice nowadays! Seek out the best news you can (access). With Facebook I subscribe to the sites like the news channel and I get the notifications like this before it becomes mainstream news on their channel.

My condolescences to everyone affected too. :/

sierrakilo44 wrote:

This just shows how a lot of the security theatre (especially at airports, but elsewhere) is just that. You can have all the barriers, checkpoints, metal detectors, armed guards etc in any airport, government building, museum, sports stadium, school etc but nothing will stop anyone just flipping out, jumping into their car and driving it at high speed into a crowd of people. Are we going to stop people from owning cars? Are we going to ban crowds gathering in large places? If some people want to kill people they will find ways of doing it. It's time to address the root causes, not the symptoms.

Well said. More is good, but not (never) enough. Sigh.

windy95 wrote:

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

What the heck are you babbling about? It is all over the news and FB, Twitter etc...

Babbling? Let's see now. NBC has something called Spartan Ultimate Tea, Challenge, PBS is covering something that I cannot figure out, ABC has something called Greatest Hits, CBS has a show called Life in Pieces. Facebook's top stories are Juna, Phil Mickelson, Chris Froom, a motorcycle crash in Kentucky, something called Mischa Barton, a baby imitating Rocky Balboa, Ploice shootings showing no racial bias, Joe Paterno's son, a racist mug in Texas, and Rufus Wainwright covering "Hallelujah". Not a single post from all the Jesus freaks that were "praying" 6 days ago.

Be careful with your choice of words unless you want to be considered a fool

Its obvious that ISIS and ISIS inspired attacks are wreaking havoc on nations worldwide but I am just shocked that people on ANET and in the West generally supported toppling the Assad regime even while Iraq next door was still unstable.

I blame every ISIS related attack not so much on "Radical Islam", which hasn't changed in 1.5 millenia FYI, but to the failed US and Western foreign policy in Iraq and Syria. Is Syria worth this kind of carnage to you? Go to www.liveleak.com and watch the uncensored videos of the carnage in Nice and of the "Rebels" being supported in Syria and get back to me.

The West should have armed Assad and let him crush these groups utterly on the condition of resigning from power at some point in the 2020s.

This is dreadful but some things puzzle me. News reports say that the driver was firing at people as he swerved through the crowds, trying to hit as many as possible. It is said that the vehicle was loaded with grenades but it is unclear from the reports that I have read that the grenades were actually used. Is this the case?

If they weren't used, was the driver meant to take them somewhere else but decided to launch into the crowd on his own initiative? Were the grenades primed to go off at a particular time but failed to do so? It all seems very odd.

solarflyer22 wrote:

Its obvious that ISIS and ISIS inspired attacks are wreaking havoc on nations worldwide but I am just shocked that people on ANET and in the West generally supported toppling the Assad regime even while Iraq next door was still unstable.

I blame every ISIS related attack not so much on "Radical Islam", which hasn't changed in 1.5 millenia FYI, but to the failed US and Western foreign policy in Iraq and Syria. Is Syria worth this kind of carnage to you? Go to http://www.liveleak.com and watch the uncensored videos of the carnage in Nice and of the "Rebels" being supported in Syria and get back to me.

The West should have armed Assad and let him crush these groups utterly on the condition of resigning from power at some point in the 2020s.

I personally feel the West shouldn't arm either side. They want to kill each other? Go right ahead.

It's just sad that weapons keep flooding into arm rebels who are no better than ISIS.

Let's go back to where it REALLY started, if we are playing the blame game

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2006/ ... t-history/

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

Are you high and blind? It has been nonstop news coverage. Get out of here with your nonsense "only whites lives seem to matter" rhetoric.There are at least 80 people that have just been massacred with at least 2 of them being US Citizens.

France and the rest of Europe need to finally get off their political correctness high horse and embrace reality.

solarflyer22 wrote:

Its obvious that ISIS and ISIS inspired attacks are wreaking havoc on nations worldwide but I am just shocked that people on ANET and in the West generally supported toppling the Assad regime even while Iraq next door was still unstable.

I blame every ISIS related attack not so much on "Radical Islam", which hasn't changed in 1.5 millenia FYI, but to the failed US and Western foreign policy in Iraq and Syria. Is Syria worth this kind of carnage to you? Go to http://www.liveleak.com and watch the uncensored videos of the carnage in Nice and of the "Rebels" being supported in Syria and get back to me.

The West should have armed Assad and let him crush these groups utterly on the condition of resigning from power at some point in the 2020s.

To be honest you have a very interesting viewpoint. Never really thought of supporting Assad on the grounds he left power.

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

Seriously? There is already non-stop coverage.

Though you are completely wrong about this being under-reported (it will be the top headline for days), you are ironically right in one sense. The reason it will be the top headline for days is precisely because most of the victims are White and "Western." When this has happened in Istanbul, there was far far less "I am Turkey" stuff and people changing their flags etc. on social media. There are all kinds of reasons for this, regarding human nature, but they are actually the things that are brought to light by recent events within America. People find it much easier to sympathize with people they see as "like them" and much harder to feel pain for people who they see as "Other." It is an instinct to fight if we want to start working our way out of this mess.

We absolutely need to find a way to reduce events such as this worldwide.

bourbon wrote:

France and the rest of Europe need to finally get off their political correctness high horse and embrace reality.

Oh please, what is your solution? Demonize everyday Muslim citizens more?

Or this



I'm just sayin, it worked in Japan

sovietjet wrote:

Or this



I'm just sayin, it worked in Japan

And investing how much money? Create jobs there but ignore creating jobs here? Great idea. We want money and jobs here but let's take them there.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... -in-nice2/

Up to 84 now.

And the calls for genocide will get a little louder.

sovietjet wrote:

Or this

I'm just sayin, it worked in Japan

See? There goes one now.

IMissPiedmont wrote:

windy95 wrote:

IMissPiedmont wrote:

And I just logged into my Facebook account and turned on the TV. Total silence on both fronts. Last week there was nonstop news coverage and outrage expressed on both. I guess lives don't matter to people in the US unless they are white US citizens. I am sickened by this.

What the heck are you babbling about? It is all over the news and FB, Twitter etc...

Babbling? Let's see now. NBC has something called Spartan Ultimate Tea, Challenge, PBS is covering something that I cannot figure out, ABC has something called Greatest Hits, CBS has a show called Life in Pieces. Facebook's top stories are Juna, Phil Mickelson, Chris Froom, a motorcycle crash in Kentucky, something called Mischa Barton, a baby imitating Rocky Balboa, Ploice shootings showing no racial bias, Joe Paterno's son, a racist mug in Texas, and Rufus Wainwright covering "Hallelujah". Not a single post from all the Jesus freaks that were "praying" 6 days ago.

Be careful with your choice of words unless you want to be considered a fool

You could have logged on to look at SMH: http://www.smh.com.au - it had it as breaking news. Or if right wing coverage is more your thing, http://www.news.com.au, where the feature box at the moment is about the attacks, and two other prominent sections of the front page are also devoted to it.

Meanwhile, http://www.abc.net.au/news/ has the top positions on its homepage devoted to the attack, but for balance, shows a bit on Donald Trump with a strange looking grin on his face, just to prove that we don't just focus only on one thing. There are probably a lot of other news sources you could look at across the world.

sovietjet wrote:

Or this

How does this solve the problem of a French Tunisian - if we are to go by identification found. Or what about the attacks in the USA, do we have a ground zero in the USA as well? If you apply this strategy, every city in the world will be flattened. You'll have done the work of the terrorists though.

Your kind of response is exactly what they want. You are aiding the PR campaigns of IS by responding in this manner. They are winning, and you are playing a part in it. Also, Israel will likely launch a strike back in retaliation for wiping them out, if we go by your map... The fallout is hardly going to stop at national borders.

solarflyer22 wrote:

The West should have armed Assad and let him crush these groups utterly on the condition of resigning from power at some point in the 2020s.

I agree that the West should stop trying to remove dictators in the ME. Obviously democracy does not work there yet. Let these countries be run by brutal dictators if it means increased stability in the region. But it's probably too late now with Saddam and Assad gone already which has left Iraq and Libya in total chaos and Syria is also a mess.

Soon the Islam apology paroles will be all over the place in the news...

LSZH34 wrote:

Soon the Islam apology paroles will be all over the place in the news...

I know. We should rather kick all of the refugees out. It's impossible to know who of those have been radicalized or will be in the future. Too bad for everyone else.

solarflyer22 wrote:

Its obvious that ISIS and ISIS inspired attacks are wreaking havoc on nations worldwide but I am just shocked that people on ANET and in the West generally supported toppling the Assad regime even while Iraq next door was still unstable.

I blame every ISIS related attack not so much on "Radical Islam", which hasn't changed in 1.5 millenia FYI, but to the failed US and Western foreign policy in Iraq and Syria. Is Syria worth this kind of carnage to you? Go to http://www.liveleak.com and watch the uncensored videos of the carnage in Nice and of the "Rebels" being supported in Syria and get back to me.

The West should have armed Assad and let him crush these groups utterly on the condition of resigning from power at some point in the 2020s.

Assad helped ISIS. He emptied his prisons.

One of my family members (cousin's husband) in Nice is French Tunisian. He's more into alcohol than religion. He was on the spot of the attack minutes before it happened with my cousin and their two small children. Fortunately they were unhurt and didn't see the carnage either.

Guns don't matter since the weapon used was a truck, but the attacker only had an old handgun, a disabled grenade and fake long guns.

My deepest sympathy to our friends in France.

AirPacific747 wrote:

I know. We should rather kick all of the refugees out. It's impossible to know who of those have been radicalized or will be in the future. Too bad for everyone else.

It's not refugees committing these attacks. It's people who were born and raised in the West. Look at the most recent big attacks in the west:
-Paris: All the terrorists were EU citizens, no refugees;
-Brussels: All terrorists were born and raised in Belgium;
-Orlando: Born and raised in the US;
-Nice: Identity not yet released (though terrorist has been identified), but believed to be a 31 year-old man with dual Tunisian - French citizenship. In other words, not a refugee.

Scorpio wrote:

It's not refugees committing these attacks. It's people who were born and raised in the West. Look at the most recent big attacks in the west:

I agree. However, soon the refugees will have children growing up in the West. No?

Plus it's no secret that ISIS is trying to export radicalized people to Europe amongst the refugees.

AirPacific747 wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

It's not refugees committing these attacks. It's people who were born and raised in the West. Look at the most recent big attacks in the west:

I agree. However, soon the refugees will have children growing up in the West. No?

Plus it's no secret that ISIS is trying to export radicalized people to Europe amongst the refugees.

From what I know, none of the terrorists of these attacks were the children of refugees either.

Let's be honest here for a second: what you're really saying is 'kick all of the muslims out', isn't it?

Scorpio wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

[url][/url]

From what I know, none of the terrorists of these attacks were the children of refugees either.

Let's be honest here for a second: what you're really saying is 'kick all of the muslims out', isn't it?

Does it matter if their parents had status of being refugees or immigrants? Their genetic, religious and cultural background is the same and it can't be a coincidence that its time after time again people with the same religious, cultural and genetic background committing these horrible crimes.

Let's be honest here and finally say things the way they are instead of being politically correct which is slowly but surely strangling the free world.

Scorpio wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

I know. We should rather kick all of the refugees out. It's impossible to know who of those have been radicalized or will be in the future. Too bad for everyone else.

It's not refugees committing these attacks. It's people who were born and raised in the West. Look at the most recent big attacks in the west:
-Paris: All the terrorists were EU citizens, no refugees;
-Brussels: All terrorists were born and raised in Belgium;
-Orlando: Born and raised in the US;
-Nice: Identity not yet released (though terrorist has been identified), but believed to be a 31 year-old man with dual Tunisian - French citizenship. In other words, not a refugee.

The common denominator is Islam, more refugees = more Islam in the future. The key question is how to work with/against the Muslim community to stop these things from happening.

Taking on the problem starting with religious leaders is probably a good start. The simple people that commit theses acts of terrorism don't get these ideas all on their own, usually anyways.

Scorpio wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

It's not refugees committing these attacks. It's people who were born and raised in the West. Look at the most recent big attacks in the west:

I agree. However, soon the refugees will have children growing up in the West. No?

Plus it's no secret that ISIS is trying to export radicalized people to Europe amongst the refugees.

From what I know, none of the terrorists of these attacks were the children of refugees either.

Let's be honest here for a second: what you're really saying is 'kick all of the muslims out', isn't it?

Funny how you twist this around by saying these were Europeans. On paper yes, but culturally and genetically you couldn't be more wrong. And about the refugees: I don't want them here. They can go to Marocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey. I have enough of putting up with their ideological and cultural problems and they can go leeching off the public somewhere else.

AirPacific747 wrote:

Does it matter if their parents had status of being refugees or immigrants? Their genetic, religious and cultural background is the same and it can't be a coincidence that its time after time again people with the same religious, cultural and genetic background committing these horrible crimes.

Let's be honest here and finally say things the way they are instead of being politically correct which is slowly but surely strangling the free world.

OK, if it doesn't matter if the parents were refugees or immigrants, let me rephrase what you really meant:

You really meant 'let's kick out all the Muslim immigrants and stop Muslims from entering Europe.

I dare you to tell me that's NOT what you really meant.

Scorpio wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

Does it matter if their parents had status of being refugees or immigrants? Their genetic, religious and cultural background is the same and it can't be a coincidence that its time after time again people with the same religious, cultural and genetic background committing these horrible crimes.

Let's be honest here and finally say things the way they are instead of being politically correct which is slowly but surely strangling the free world.

OK, if it doesn't matter if the parents were refugees or immigrants, let me rephrase what you really meant:

You really meant 'let's kick out all the Muslim immigrants and stop Muslims from entering Europe.

I dare you to tell me that's NOT what you really meant.

You dare me to do what? Could I say it more clearly?

But to clarify: Let's stop immigration from people with muslim background for the future being and let's try to focus our energy on the ones that already hold citizenship in western countries. It's very clear that we already can't control those who are here, so I don't see how it will help letting more in.

Redd wrote:

The common denominator is Islam, more refugees = more Islam in the future. The key question is how to work with/against the Muslim community to stop these things from happening.

Taking on the problem starting with religious leaders is probably a good start. The simple people that commit theses acts of terrorism don't get these ideas all on their own, usually anyways.

The common denominator is radical Islam, not just 'Islam'. And yes, the key question is indeed how to stop this from happening. Working against the Muslim community as a whole and throwing them all on one heap won't be the solution, that's simply the perfect recipe for more terrorism, not less. A dual approach will be needed. On the one hand, radicals need to be rooted out: extremist preachers have to be deported, and existing radicals need to be dealt with. Any ties with Suadi wahhabism need to be cut. On the other hand, we need to work WITH the Muslim community to prevent young muslims from becoming radicalised. There needs to be a counterforce to the radical messages being spread by internet and other preachers. There are already Muslim religious leaders in the west calling for a new, modern and western Islam, a reinterpretation of the texts and religion to make it fit into a modern, secular Western society. Those voices need to be supported by the governments, and these are the people we need to be working with. They know the communities, they see how young people are being corrupted today. They're the key to bringing about change: the ones within the community who have a positive plan for the future.

And we need to stop demonising muslims as a group, because those who are demonising them, including idiots like Trump, are actively helping the terrorists.

LSZH34 wrote:

Funny how you twist this around by saying these were Europeans. On paper yes, but culturally and genetically you couldn't be more wrong. And about the refugees: I don't want them here. They can go to Marocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey. I have enough of putting up with their ideological and cultural problems and they can go leeching off the public somewhere else.

I'm not 'twisting things around'. I'm not implying these are secular Europeans, that's just what you desperately wish to make of my post. I'm merely responding to AirPacific, who said the solution was to deport all the refugees. I pointed out the refugees weren't the ones carrying out the attacks. Follow the discussion before responding please.

Scorpio wrote:

LSZH34 wrote:

Funny how you twist this around by saying these were Europeans. On paper yes, but culturally and genetically you couldn't be more wrong. And about the refugees: I don't want them here. They can go to Marocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey. I have enough of putting up with their ideological and cultural problems and they can go leeching off the public somewhere else.

I'm not 'twisting things around'. I'm not implying these are secular Europeans, that's just what you desperately wish to make of my post. I'm merely responding to AirPacific, who said the solution was to deport all the refugees. I pointed out the refugees weren't the ones carrying out the attacks. Follow the discussion before responding please.

I see your point but again those refugees will have children growing up here who will become radicalized when they feel that they don't know where they belong. The refugees should be sent back to Syria when peace prevails and there should be no attempt to integrate them. Our societies are already having very hard times coping with the huge waves of refugees/immigrants.

Let me just remind you that the population in Africa will more than double within the next few decades to over 2 billion(!). Do you think that by helping 1-2 million a year by letting them in to Europe will make a significant difference? Don't you think that those money spent trying to integrate a relatively 'handful' amount of immigrants couldn't be better spent in the countries where they come from where they could save many more lives instead of the privileged few.

LSZH34 wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

I agree. However, soon the refugees will have children growing up in the West. No?

Plus it's no secret that ISIS is trying to export radicalized people to Europe amongst the refugees.

From what I know, none of the terrorists of these attacks were the children of refugees either.

Let's be honest here for a second: what you're really saying is 'kick all of the muslims out', isn't it?

Funny how you twist this around by saying these were Europeans. On paper yes, but culturally and genetically you couldn't be more wrong. And about the refugees: I don't want them here. They can go to Marocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey. I have enough of putting up with their ideological and cultural problems and they can go leeching off the public somewhere else.

I completely agree LSZH. Why is there constantly a pressure to happily accept immigrants from very backwards cultures and religions? I want to preserve our European cultures. That doesn't mean I mind these people from those countries but I don't see why they automatically belong in Europe when they show up. They belong where they come from.