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PacificBeach88
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Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:00 am

How do my fellow Democrats feel about this pick?

Me personally? I think it's the safest, most boring, choice possible. She could have picked Al Franken, Sherrod Brown, Secretary Perez, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, J. Castro, Jeff Merkley, or 1/2 dozen other picks that would have excited the base. This election is going to come down to turning out your base IMHO. Picking Kaine excites no Bernie supporters. At least not this one. The famous Clinton triangulation is already started. *sigh*

Given Trump is the alternative, I'll vote for Hillary, but I'm not exactly jazzed about it. Baby Boomers have done so much damage to this country, but we have two to pick from. One is an authoritarian, megalomaniac, hyped up on diet pills, and the other a run-of-the-mill pro-Wall Street Clinton.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:11 am

Why is it considered "safe" for a moderate to pick another moderate? She's already a borderline Republican who's having difficulty appealing to liberals, what the hell good is picking another borderline Republican going to do? When you are the moderate, you pick someone who is more extreme to bring in those votes, and if you are the extreme one, pick a moderate to appease that faction. Both Trump and Clinton got this wrong.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:28 am

Image
Last edited by DocLightning on Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:31 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Why is it considered "safe" for a moderate to pick another moderate? She's already a borderline Republican who's having difficulty appealing to liberals, what the hell good is picking another borderline Republican going to do? When you are the moderate, you pick someone who is more extreme to bring in those votes, and if you are the extreme one, pick a moderate to appease that faction. Both Trump and Clinton got this wrong.


I'm sorry, but is she ranting and raving looney and talking about building a wall with Mexico and banning Muslims and forcibly annuling gay marriage and taking their kids from them, denying global warming, and vowing to repeal the ACA?

Because that's the Republican party. (Cue the sweet tears of teabilly butthurt here "THAT'S NOT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!" Uh...yeah it is, even if you don't like it.)

I do not see her as ANYTHING like the Republican party. She is solid center-left. Left of Mr. Obama, even.

Here she is laying flowers at Pulse. Seen a Republican do anything like that lately? Seen a Republican paying ANY respect to the LGBT community lately other than actual Gay Republicans?
Image
Last edited by DocLightning on Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ken777
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:32 am

I'm comfortable with Kaine as the VP pick. Reality is that come January a VP pick needs to be able to work with the President for 4 (or, hopefully 8) years and compatibility sis pretty important. I believe that there is a high comfort level between the two - and it has already been noted that Bill likes the guy.

In terms of getting out the vote, Kaine might surprise people. He speaks Spanish well enough to give news interviews on Spanish speaking radio and TV networks without an interpreter and is going to be puling in the Hispanic vote big time.

The hard liberals right not be totally on board but the reading is that they are going to vote for Hillary or they will be directly or indirectly voting for Trump. Are they really going to support Trump?
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:50 am

Ken777 wrote:
I'm comfortable with Kaine as the VP pick. Reality is that come January a VP pick needs to be able to work with the President for 4 (or, hopefully 8) years and compatibility sis pretty important. I believe that there is a high comfort level between the two - and it has already been noted that Bill likes the guy.

In terms of getting out the vote, Kaine might surprise people. He speaks Spanish well enough to give news interviews on Spanish speaking radio and TV networks without an interpreter and is going to be puling in the Hispanic vote big time.

The hard liberals right not be totally on board but the reading is that they are going to vote for Hillary or they will be directly or indirectly voting for Trump. Are they really going to support Trump?


When all is said and done, no true Democrat would vote for Trump. Did anyone hear the part about picking a new SC Justice? Scary. Really much of it was scary. As my Mother would say The great I am. That is Trump, it fits. Of course a Senator from an important state and with a Democratic Governor who can appoint a replacement Democrat to the Senate is an important consideration :) also.
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LittleFokker
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:57 am

DocLightning wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Why is it considered "safe" for a moderate to pick another moderate? She's already a borderline Republican who's having difficulty appealing to liberals, what the hell good is picking another borderline Republican going to do? When you are the moderate, you pick someone who is more extreme to bring in those votes, and if you are the extreme one, pick a moderate to appease that faction. Both Trump and Clinton got this wrong.


I'm sorry, but is she ranting and raving looney and talking about building a wall with Mexico and banning Muslims and forcibly annuling gay marriage and taking their kids from them, denying global warming, and vowing to repeal the ACA?

Because that's the Republican party.

I do not see her as ANYTHING like the Republican party. She is solid center-left. Left of Mr. Obama, even.

Here she is laying flowers at Pulse. Seen a Republican do anything like that lately? Seen a Republican paying ANY respect to the LGBT community lately other than actual Gay Republicans?
Image


I should have specified that she is what the Republicans used to be before Reagan, a classic conservative. Any Democrat is better than any of the Coo-Coo birds the GOP is trotting out, but my point was that she is having trouble appealing to liberals, so she goes with....another moderate. It's like she's trying to lose the most winnable election the Democrats have ever had.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:03 am

it was a number 2 choice. if you know what i mean. . seriously another corporate democrat? just what liberals want to vote for.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:10 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
it was a number 2 choice. if you know what i mean. . seriously another corporate democrat? just what liberals want to vote for.



I do, Bernie was the man for change, that is why the system was stacked against him. We cannot have change, Wall Street and the banks and the corporations do not like change or disruption.
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ltbewr
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:18 am

Kinda meh about Kaine, but it makes sense. Kaine is socially moderate, a Catholic, speaks fluent Spanish so can get a few votes from those groups. He comes from a state (Virginia) that has one foot in the historical 'South' and another in the Northeast. He does have executive and DC experience, been on Senate committees that deal with foreign policy so has some background but won't overshadow HRC. Assuming HRC and Kaine win, his replacement in the USA Senate would be a Democrat as the current governor is a D and closely connected to the Clinton's (they would have to face election in Nov. 2017). He seems to be clean of any woman trouble, long married to his wife, a bit quiet but maybe vs. Trump, that would be a good thing. No doubt he could take over as President if Clinton is unable to continue in office. Likely he won't be a 'yes madam' but challenge with his own views on many issues. I suspect he was thoroughly vetted.

There are 4 issues that Kaine may hurt or not help HRC on. He has taken views on limiting legal abortions. He has taken monies in office that while legal in VA are way too loose, although he has declared such gifts and didn't abuse it like the just previous Governor was convicted on. His support of the seriously troublesome TPP trade agreements that Trump and Sanders have both made key issues to many voters. Will Kaine be open/liberal enough for the millions of Sanders supporters. Hopefully over the next week or so we will have the media do a fine tooth come to him and nothing really serious will come out.
 
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:57 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Of course a Senator from an important state and with a Democratic Governor who can appoint a replacement Democrat to the Senate is an important consideration :) also.


That is a pretty good point. There is no chance for a Democratic Senator from a state with a Republican governor being named. The importance of Virginia might also be considered. Look for Kaine working hard to bring in Virginia as well as leveraging his Spanish language skills to bring in more Hispanic votes than normal.
 
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zckls04
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:30 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Why is it considered "safe" for a moderate to pick another moderate? She's already a borderline Republican who's having difficulty appealing to liberals, what the hell good is picking another borderline Republican going to do? When you are the moderate, you pick someone who is more extreme to bring in those votes, and if you are the extreme one, pick a moderate to appease that faction. Both Trump and Clinton got this wrong.


Didn't work for McCain though. Or Romney for that matter.

In reality I think it's far easier for a VP to scupper your chances than it is for them to help you. The only way they can really help you is to carry their own state, and in that respect Kaine is a good choice.
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Aesma
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:44 am

The concept of the VP is strange enough, for me, as you can't vote for him/her separately (but then again you don't vote for the president either), but having him/her have a political influence means the president/candidate is promising things but may do something else if the VP is convincing enough ?
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D L X
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:47 am

Do any of you guys actually know him?

I do... and I'm absolutely ecstatic.
 
A332DTW
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:50 am

Not surprised. My vote is already hanging very thin for Clinton, and following this VP pick and the leaked emails about the party conspiring against Sanders, I'm thinking a Trump presidency migh be more than possible.
 
N867DA
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:52 am

Aesma wrote:
The concept of the VP is strange enough, for me, as you can't vote for him/her separately (but then again you don't vote for the president either), but having him/her have a political influence means the president/candidate is promising things but may do something else if the VP is convincing enough ?


"If I die, this dude's going to fulfill my mission, except maybe he may do what he wants instead."

Realistically, the VP has very little say in the near future but there's a long list of VPs who later run for office so maybe they're indicative of where the party would like to go. Hillary's selection of Kaine is not exciting, but will appeal to folks that voted for her in the primaries and may help some people on the fence see that Trump's campaign goes home in a little clown car each night.
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zckls04
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:06 am

N867DA wrote:
Realistically, the VP has very little say in the near future but there's a long list of VPs who later run for office so maybe they're indicative of where the party would like to go. Hillary's selection of Kaine is not exciting, but will appeal to folks that voted for her in the primaries and may help some people on the fence see that Trump's campaign goes home in a little clown car each night.


Exactly. One of Clinton's key selling points is that she is a much more credible candidate than Trump is or Sanders was. If she nominated a left-wing firebrand that advantage is thrown away.

D L X wrote:
Do any of you guys actually know him?

I do... and I'm absolutely ecstatic.


I think if you believe Clinton will win (as I do) it's the best possible choice. Somebody well liked and experienced, and qualified. What's not to like? I'd much rather people pick VPs they can work with rather than picking a crappy candidate for the sake of gaining more votes.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:03 am

what leaked emails?
 
A332DTW
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:43 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what leaked emails?


http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/pre ... on-sanders
 
L-188
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:58 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what leaked emails?


The 20K that Wikki let loose today.

The democrats fixed their nomination process so Hillary would win.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:42 pm

L-188 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
what leaked emails?


The 20K that Wikki let loose today.

The democrats fixed their nomination process so Hillary would win.

The horror! And the RNC tried to fix their nomination process to push for anyone but Trump. And failed miserably.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:12 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
I should have specified that she is what the Republicans used to be before Reagan.


OK, fine, perhaps. But I live in 2016 and before Reagan was 36 years ago. I'm 39. A fully actualized adult. I don't remember anything before Reagan. But yes, I do miss that GOP if that's what they were like.
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kngkyle
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:13 pm

From what I have read, it sounds like he is a very genuine, trustworthy, smart, and overall good person - many of the areas that Hillary is struggling with perception wise. It's a smart choice.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:14 pm

D L X wrote:
Do any of you guys actually know him?

I do... and I'm absolutely ecstatic.


No. I don't. Which is why I think it was a poor choice. No national exposure at all. No reputation outside of political circles at all. I'm sure he's wonderful, but..

...Meh.
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bmacleod
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:14 pm

This race somewhat parallels 1980 maybe 1984

- Clinton is 69 same age as Reagan in 1980.
- Born in Illinois like Reagan.
- Hillary Republican before turning Democrat (Reagan was Democrat before turning Republican).

- Also remember how the 1980 race was very close until the Cleveland Debate?

If Hillary does to Trump what Reagan did to Carter this could be an epic Hillary landslide not seen since Reagan's 1980 and 1984 sweeping landslides.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:17 pm

A332DTW wrote:
Not surprised. My vote is already hanging very thin for Clinton, and following this VP pick and the leaked emails about the party conspiring against Sanders, I'm thinking a Trump presidency migh be more than possible.


You're an American-born Muslim. How much trouble did you want every time you cross the border? Unfortunately, those of us who are in minorities targeted by the GOP have not much of a realistic choice.
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kngkyle
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:18 pm

DocLightning wrote:
D L X wrote:
Do any of you guys actually know him?

I do... and I'm absolutely ecstatic.


No. I don't. Which is why I think it was a poor choice. No national exposure at all. No reputation outside of political circles at all. I'm sure he's wonderful, but..

...Meh.


Lots of time to get to know him. Sarah Palin was an unknown as well and look what kind of impact she ended up having on the campaign.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:49 pm

kngkyle wrote:

Lots of time to get to know him. Sarah Palin was an unknown as well and look what kind of impact she ended up having on the campaign.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm watching him speak now. Fortunately, he's no Sarah Palin.
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kngkyle
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:57 pm

DocLightning wrote:
kngkyle wrote:

Lots of time to get to know him. Sarah Palin was an unknown as well and look what kind of impact she ended up having on the campaign.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm watching him speak now. Fortunately, he's no Sarah Palin.


I just used Sarah Palin as an example of what kind of impact someone who is unknown at first can have on the ticket, good or bad.

I'm watching as well. He has a pretty inspiring background and story. We'll see how it resonates with voters. He has run for election 8 times and has yet to lose.
 
A332DTW
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:28 pm

DocLightning wrote:
A332DTW wrote:
Not surprised. My vote is already hanging very thin for Clinton, and following this VP pick and the leaked emails about the party conspiring against Sanders, I'm thinking a Trump presidency migh be more than possible.


You're an American-born Muslim. How much trouble did you want every time you cross the border? Unfortunately, those of us who are in minorities targeted by the GOP have not much of a realistic choice.


Foreign born, naturalized citizen. Looking at Trump's preposterous ideas, the worst he is capable of is embarrassing the United States on an international level. None of his propositions can go through without serious constitutional repercussions. That being said, short of Sanders pulling his endorsement, my vote still reluctantly hinges on Clinton.

I have been able to research Tim Kain a little bit. Rational, moderate, decent person. I'm not sure how genuine he is in protecting the country from threats of a Wall Street, however.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:40 pm

Still early but looks like Kaine's pick has a Clinton POTUS "locked up".

History seems to suggest GOP Nominees fare better on 20 year cycle 1980, 2000 next up is 2020.

2020 - hopefully a common-sense down-to-earth governor like Nikki Haley will rise to the challenge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley
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KFLLCFII
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:07 pm

bmacleod wrote:
This race somewhat parallels 1980 maybe 1984

- Clinton is 69 same age as Reagan in 1980.
- Born in Illinois like Reagan.
- Hillary Republican before turning Democrat (Reagan was Democrat before turning Republican).

- Also remember how the 1980 race was very close until the Cleveland Debate?

If Hillary does to Trump what Reagan did to Carter this could be an epic Hillary landslide not seen since Reagan's 1980 and 1984 sweeping landslides.


Other than the place of birth, Trump was also the same age as Reagan up until last month, and Trump was also a Democrat before turning Republican like Reagan.

As for the upcoming debates, all we have now is a matter of opinion...But in my opinion, the only "doing" will be Trump walking all over Hillary like an old worn-out doormat.

The only candidate with a chance for a landslide like Reagan's, in my opinion, will be Trump.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:01 pm

A332DTW wrote:
Foreign born, naturalized citizen.


Ah. My mistake.

Looking at Trump's preposterous ideas, the worst he is capable of is embarrassing the United States on an international level. None of his propositions can go through without serious constitutional repercussions.


The President controls CBP. In addition, the President is under no constitutional obligation to obey the Supreme Court. If he gave an order to do extra screening on all Muslims or to not allow non-citizen Muslims to enter based on some set of criteria such as ME nationality or the presents of certain phonemes in the name, he's stubborn enough to basically dare Congress to impeach and remove him. Given the 2/3 required in the Senate to do such a thing... So yeah, he could actually make life miserable for you.

That being said, short of Sanders pulling his endorsement, my vote still reluctantly hinges on Clinton.

I have been able to research Tim Kain a little bit. Rational, moderate, decent person. I'm not sure how genuine he is in protecting the country from threats of a Wall Street, however.


I trust the handling of Wall St. more to Democrats than to Republicans.
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:10 pm

I watched the first Tim Kaine VP speech today. He is a happy warrior, much like Joe Biden. He transitions into Spanish quite fluently. While he may not be a super exciting politician, he's a solid one. *shrug* We'll see how this plays out. Here's his first speech with Hillary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9AmZftdWw
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:17 pm

His speech was good, obviously he has a better speech writer than Melania. However, i am troubled by the fact that he's a Catholic that doesn't believe in abortion and is for the death penalty. Sure sounds Republican to me. Or, are we suppose to over look his belief's because this is Hillary's pick.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:26 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
His speech was good, obviously he has a better speech writer than Melania. However, i am troubled by the fact that he's a Catholic that doesn't believe in abortion and is for the death penalty. Sure sounds Republican to me. Or, are we suppose to over look his belief's because this is Hillary's pick.

Not everyone has to be in lock step with each other as far as what they believe, what values and religion they hold to. These are personal things for each and every person. That one holds that value or follows that religion does not mean they cannot support a society that allows options. It just means they would not do that themselves personally.

The key thing a VP must do is be an excellent interface with others. They reach out where and when the President cannot and if a lower key approach is needed. They must be able to work with and within the Congress as they are technically the lead person there representing the administration.

Tugg
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There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:46 pm

reading the dumped emails, so far i it makes me wonder what they actually did. I see the emails reveal
media collusion and some other things that were really hard not to notice. I think this is where Hillary's Teflon Queen supporters started to complain that Bernie sanders supporters were a bunch of sore losers.

anyway, I hoping the media isn't going to ignore this as well. So, far that seems to be the case.
i thought this article was good.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-2 ... -collusion
 
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kngkyle
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:59 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
His speech was good, obviously he has a better speech writer than Melania. However, i am troubled by the fact that he's a Catholic that doesn't believe in abortion and is for the death penalty. Sure sounds Republican to me. Or, are we suppose to over look his belief's because this is Hillary's pick.


His personal belief is that abortion is wrong but he also believes it's not up to the government to force that belief on everyone else. This shouldn't be an issue. He has a 100% score from Planned Parenthood.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:08 am

/\ /\ Agreed. I would describe myself as "against abortion" and my wife is similarly inclined. However it is not for us to enforce this on others who may be in different situations. We are most definitely pro choice but if someone asked us personally for assistance we would lean toward non-abortion options first, but would lay out all options available (including abortion) and would respect and assist any woman in such a difficult position.

I would say most of the people I know are probably similar.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Okie
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:14 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
anyway, I hoping the media isn't going to ignore this as well. So, far that seems to be the case.i thought this article was good.


As pointed out in your linked article there is serious nepotism and inbreeding between the Democratic Party and the Media.
Do not be surprised to see "Banjos" coming to a news cast on your television soon.

Okie
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:16 am

Tugger wrote:
/\ /\ Agreed. I would describe myself as "against abortion" and my wife is similarly inclined. However it is not for us to enforce this on others who may be in different situations. We are most definitely pro choice but if someone asked us personally for assistance we would lean toward non-abortion options first, but would lay out all options available (including abortion) and would respect and assist any woman in such a difficult position.

I would say most of the people I know are probably similar.

Tugg


This is my take. While I am gay, I wouldn't want my family members to have an abortion. That said, I also along with my husband make more money than 90%+ of America so we have choices. We can afford to keep working, pay nannies, daycare, etc... if for some reason we had a couple of children dropped on us. (We are godparents to a few children.) But abortion before 22 / 26 weeks should be safe, legal, and available for all. Just like gay marriage; if you don't believe in it, don't get gay married. If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. Pretty simple really, and keeping big government out of people's lives.
 
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:37 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
I watched the first Tim Kaine VP speech today. He is a happy warrior, much like Joe Biden. He transitions into Spanish quite fluently. While he may not be a super exciting politician, he's a solid one. *shrug* We'll see how this plays out. Here's his first speech with Hillary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9AmZftdWw


His Spanish is decent. The accent is moderately thick North-American. I had commented to another bilingual friend (Einstenboricua) that he should take some accent reduction courses if he's going to use it to campaign and he responded that he thought that would be inappropriate and insulting, like putting on extra tan.

Either way, I have to retract my prior criticism. Using his Spanish like that was a remarkably astute move and the GOP and its surrogates got led to it like a bull to a red cape.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/23/politics/ ... d=26871454

From the Article wrote:
"What Mr. Trump did, he spoke in a language all Americans can understand -- that is English," Hughes said. "I didn't have to get a translator for anything that was going on at the (Republican National Convention) this week. And I'm hoping I'm not going to have to start brushing up on my 'Dora the Explorer' to understand some of the speeches given this week."


You tell me how THAT kind of behavior from the GOP and its surrogates is going to go over with the Latino community at large...
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Hillis
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:20 am

DocLightning wrote:
D L X wrote:
Do any of you guys actually know him?

I do... and I'm absolutely ecstatic.


No. I don't. Which is why I think it was a poor choice. No national exposure at all. No reputation outside of political circles at all. I'm sure he's wonderful, but..

...Meh.


It does no good to have a 2nd Lieutenant who takes the spotlight, good or bad, away from Number One. Names like Sargent Shriver and Sarah Palin ring a bell?

He was picked for several reasons. Virginia is one, even though that state turns more Blue day by day. A second is that the Democrats feel they will get the Senate, and they want soemone just above Chuck Shumer who helps keeps the troops in line. His fluent use of Spanish will resonate wll in Hispanic areas. You can bet he's going to places like Arizona, Texas and Florida. If he can energize voters who speak Spanish in those areas, then the game is literally over for the Republicans.

Not exciting. But not a raving evangelical zealot like Mike Pence, either.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:26 am

DocLightning wrote:
I had commented to another bilingual friend (Einstenboricua) that he should take some accent reduction courses if he's going to use it to campaign and he responded that he thought that would be inappropriate and insulting, like putting on extra tan.

Here's why I think it would be inappropriate. Sen. Kaine learned Spanish not to score political points, but due to his time as a missionary. While polishing it wouldn't hurt, I think he's more genuine the way he is now. In my opinion, Latinos would already be thrilled to have someone who speaks Spanish on the ticket and Kaine doesn't need to do anything else other than to just be himself. I mentioned to Doc that if he (or Clinton for that matter) was caught polishing his Spanish, it would be akin to Romney with his bad tan job at the Univision interview. It doesn't seem authentic; it seems just a ploy to score political points. I would take offense for someone to learn/polish Spanish just to earn my vote; rather, with broken Spanish, I'd prefer for them to tell me why they are the better pick, and I'm sure Latinos in the US would be understanding of Kaine's accent, just as ordinary Americans have to be understanding when Latinos have an accent as well.

IF he and Clinton are elected and they wish to further engage with the Latino communities, then I could certainly understand wanting to become more fluent. Obama had a broken Spanish (and a thick accent too); that didn't stop Latinos from rallying around him and it won't stop them from rallying around Clinton and Kaine.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:32 am

Hillis wrote:

Not exciting. But not a raving evangelical zealot like Mike Pence, either.

And this is what people don't get about Kaine. When Trump picked Pence, he picked an establishment figure, but one shrouded in controversies, with similar extremist views as the Tea Party. That allowed Clinton some breathing room. She didn't need to rally the liberal base that much, but rather made the move for centrists who believe the Trump/Pence ticket may be too far right and could support Clinton if she picked a centrist candidate. And Kaine's record speaks for itself. Plus, he secures VA in the Democrats' column whereas Indiana was already deep in the GOP column (though I'm certain Hoosiers will be glad that their governor is retiring). And finally, if elected, McAuliffe (a Democrat) picks his replacement so if the Democrats take the Senate, they keep it blue until 2018 when his seat is up for election. Granted, it could flip to red in that election, but two years with a Democrat Senate could be beneficial for Clinton if she's to make progress in office.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:37 am

IF he and Clinton are elected and they wish to further engage with the Latino communities, then I could certainly understand wanting to become more fluent. Obama had a broken Spanish (and a thick accent too); that didn't stop Latinos from rallying around him and it won't stop them from rallying around Clinton and Kaine.

This is another reason why people will vote for Hillary and Kaine. I know it is my reason.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-conc ... 122105.htm

Fear of Trump and who is the lesser of two evils. Hillary obviously.


Disregard this post please, wrong link to information.
Last edited by WarRI1 on Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:42 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Me personally? I think it's the safest, most boring, choice possible. She could have picked Al Franken, Sherrod Brown, Secretary Perez, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, J. Castro, Jeff Merkley, or 1/2 dozen other picks that would have excited the base.

Al Franken: name one accomplishment in the Senate or before the Senate that puts his name in the spotlight other than being an SNL writer.
Sherrod Brown: a great pick, but with the balance of the Senate depending on all the seats Democrats can get, and with Kasich getting to name someone if Brown resigns, Brown wasn't gonna get the nod.
Secretary Perez: no electoral history.
Warren: not exactly BFF with Clinton and GOP governor would appoint her replacement if elected.
Amy Klobuchar: repeatedly said she did not want the job.
Julian Castro: inexperience, no electoral history, caught in a bit of a legal brawl himself, a Latino that barely speaks Spanish.
Jeff Merkley: Sanders supporter, secures an already blue state, probably as boring as Kaine is.

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Given Trump is the alternative, I'll vote for Hillary, but I'm not exactly jazzed about it. Baby Boomers have done so much damage to this country, but we have two to pick from. One is an authoritarian, megalomaniac, hyped up on diet pills, and the other a run-of-the-mill pro-Wall Street Clinton.
So you're upset that you have to pick from two Baby Boomers who "have done so much damage to this country". And what is Sanders? A millennial?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:57 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
So you're upset that you have to pick from two Baby Boomers who "have done so much damage to this country". And what is Sanders? A millennial?


I didn't say anything about Sanders at all. Want to try again? Why not question me on what I think of Rubio too? Or Cruz? Or Justin Bieber? None of these are the two main picks we have to choose from.

Ideally, I'd vote for Obama again, but that isn't a choice. I found this article interesting about Obama and his governing as a GenXer.

"That the Millennials have so quickly tired of the Boomers’ ideology is surprising in some ways because they were raised by Boomers. But perhaps that is part of their own youthful rebellion against their parents. The optimism and positivity of the Millennial generation is not something you find in their pessimistic Boomer parents. And the practical optimism of Obama seems to really appeal to the younger generation today. Although Obama and other Gen X leaders won’t say we are going to make a perfect world, they do exude confidence in our ability to make positive change. It’s more pragmatic, but also much more achievable. http://www.thegenxfiles.com/2009/03/30/ ... nt-page-1/

"In many cases the Boomers are willing to sink the ship rather than compromise their ideals." Tell me this doesn't sum up the Republican perverse do-nothingness? Trump's main source of support is white baby boomers.

Even the conservative publication "The Week" finds the Boomers to be essentially awful.

"The Boomers were born into prosperity. And they have viewed it as their right ever since. Much of this prosperity is an illusion created by dishonest accounting. They'll let the lawyers discharge their credit card debt when they die, and meanwhile pull all the equity out of their overinflated home prices, and bankrupt the public treasury with the inflated medical spending that they deserve." http://theweek.com/articles/627505/how- ... 6-election
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:34 pm

DocLightning wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Why is it considered "safe" for a moderate to pick another moderate? She's already a borderline Republican who's having difficulty appealing to liberals, what the hell good is picking another borderline Republican going to do? When you are the moderate, you pick someone who is more extreme to bring in those votes, and if you are the extreme one, pick a moderate to appease that faction. Both Trump and Clinton got this wrong.


I'm sorry, but is she ranting and raving looney and talking about building a wall with Mexico and banning Muslims and forcibly annuling gay marriage and taking their kids from them, denying global warming, and vowing to repeal the ACA?

Because that's the Republican party. (Cue the sweet tears of teabilly butthurt here "THAT'S NOT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!" Uh...yeah it is, even if you don't like it.)

I do not see her as ANYTHING like the Republican party. She is solid center-left. Left of Mr. Obama, even.

Here she is laying flowers at Pulse. Seen a Republican do anything like that lately? Seen a Republican paying ANY respect to the LGBT community lately other than actual Gay Republicans?
Image



You undermined your fairly good points by choosing Pulse and reactions to it. Did you view Trumps speech at all?? Did you see the whole section dedicated to Pulse, LGBTQ and fighting to protect them?

Again, I am not saying I disagree with your points. And I am not defending the GOP with regards to Gay outreach/acceptance.

But you do weaken your argument, and the movement for Gay inclusion in the GOP when you totally neglect to mention that Mr. Trump, in the speech of his lifetime, dedicated a whole section of it to Pulse and fighting to protect LGBTQ community. For all his faults, no GOP candidate ever reached out to gays in a Nomination Acceptance Speech before.




As for Kaine, he is a safe pick. He won't hurt her, and he won't help her. She likely was going to win VA before picking Kaine. She will likely win VA after picking Kaine.


This election will come down to which candidate people like less. The vast majority of people in the US dislike both of them at record levels.


The election will also come down to terrorist attacks du jour. The more they happen, the more likely that a guy like Trump will get elected as his element of "fear" gets perpetuated in the nightly news.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Hillary Picks Kaine for Veep

Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:54 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
You undermined your fairly good points by choosing Pulse and reactions to it. Did you view Trumps speech at all?? Did you see the whole section dedicated to Pulse, LGBTQ and fighting to protect them?


Yes, I did. So, as a gay man with an education who intensely studies his enemies, allow me to explain to you what he ACTUALLY said and has said in his speeches and statements:
*I will appoint justices who will forcibly annul your marriages and remove your children from you.
*I will do my utmost to overturn state and federal laws and policies that combat anti-LGBT discrimination.
*But at least I'll keep you safe from ISIS.

Thanks, but no thanks.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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