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winterlight
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Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:57 am

16 supposedly dead at teen nightclub.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:08 am

here we go again!!!!! Why bother posting it's going to go the same way as every other shooting post on a.net!
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:42 am

Status quo on a.net further below.

Pro gun people:

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Anti gun:

but if those guns weren't available in the first place...
Last edited by AirPacific747 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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winterlight
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 am

Apparently 2 dead and 17 injured. It's on the BBC so it must be true.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:51 pm

Place had professional armed guards, too.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:50 pm

Terrorist attack, just like Munich.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:56 pm

seahawk wrote:
Terrorist attack, just like Munich.


"Police also said the shooting early Monday morning was not terror-related." - CNN
 
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seb146
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:08 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Terrorist attack, just like Munich.


"Police also said the shooting early Monday morning was not terror-related." - CNN


Eff that. When this many people are gunned down, it is terrorism. Certain groups of people want to only blame one religion. If they can't say "Islamic" or "Muslim" along with the word "terrorism" then nothing happened. And that is sick.

This was an act of terror. Period. This many people gunned down in a public place is terrorism. Period. Full stop.
 
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lugie
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:52 pm

seb146 wrote:

Eff that. When this many people are gunned down, it is terrorism. Certain groups of people want to only blame one religion. If they can't say "Islamic" or "Muslim" along with the word "terrorism" then nothing happened. And that is sick.

This was an act of terror. Period. This many people gunned down in a public place is terrorism. Period. Full stop.


I'm not entirely with you on this. What I agree on is the fact that there's a common notion to only recognize radical Islam as a source of religious terrorism while it surely is not.

However not every mass murder is an act of terrorism.

Terrorism is defined as the act of spreading a political agenda using acts of violence to attempt and overthrow current political (or religious) structures - it is not unlikely that this actually wasn't terrorism. Just like these sick mf-ers at Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Umpqua, VT etc. were mass murderers but not necessarily terrorists as their motivation was i.e. being disgruntled and having felt bullied and whatnot.
 
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seb146
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:39 pm

lugie wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Eff that. When this many people are gunned down, it is terrorism. Certain groups of people want to only blame one religion. If they can't say "Islamic" or "Muslim" along with the word "terrorism" then nothing happened. And that is sick.

This was an act of terror. Period. This many people gunned down in a public place is terrorism. Period. Full stop.


I'm not entirely with you on this. What I agree on is the fact that there's a common notion to only recognize radical Islam as a source of religious terrorism while it surely is not.

However not every mass murder is an act of terrorism.

Terrorism is defined as the act of spreading a political agenda using acts of violence to attempt and overthrow current political (or religious) structures - it is not unlikely that this actually wasn't terrorism. Just like these sick mf-ers at Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Umpqua, VT etc. were mass murderers but not necessarily terrorists as their motivation was i.e. being disgruntled and having felt bullied and whatnot.



We are just arguing semantics at this point. These low lifes want people to fear them. To be terrified of them. It is hate, fear, and terror.

As far as making an entire religion the scapegoat for killing is not worth it. Look at the millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Morocco, etc. where there is no constant war. Why is that? Those countries have the same religion but stable governments. Religion is a weapon, not a symptom. People are not killing en masse because a holy text says so. They are manipulating holy text to fit their agenda.

Much like "we have to legislate against gays because the Bible says so but just ignore my fourth marriage and my lunch of bacon wrapped shrimp."
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
As far as making an entire religion the scapegoat for killing is not worth it. Look at the millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Morocco, etc. where there is no constant war. Why is that? Those countries have the same religion but stable governments. Religion is a weapon, not a symptom. People are not killing en masse because a holy text says so. They are manipulating holy text to fit their agenda.

Much like "we have to legislate against gays because the Bible says so but just ignore my fourth marriage and my lunch of bacon wrapped shrimp."


Singapore isn't a Muslim country (pedantry), and they come down extremely hard on any violence (plus having chewing gum), so no surprises there. Malaysia does OK, but Morocco and Indonesia have had terrorist attacks and more problems than you give credit for. Morocco had bombings in 2011, and you should remember the Bali bombings.

But just to let you know, for some of us Islam is not nice because it's very discriminatory and often inspires inequality in society. I thought someone like you who had a hatred for these views in Western society would be critical of their views, although aware of the risks of labelling everyone who follows the religion according to those views.

Anyway the gun deaths at the nightclub are sad, but being frank not worth getting too upset over. It happens, and the US populace sees it as an acceptable payoff. C'est la vie.
 
Scorpio
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:13 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Anyway the gun deaths at the nightclub are sad, but being frank not worth getting too upset over. It happens, and the US populace sees it as an acceptable payoff. C'est la vie.


Correction: the hardline Republican part of the US populace sees it as an acceptable payoff. The rest don't.
 
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seb146
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:16 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Singapore isn't a Muslim country (pedantry), and they come down extremely hard on any violence (plus having chewing gum), so no surprises there. Malaysia does OK, but Morocco and Indonesia have had terrorist attacks and more problems than you give credit for. Morocco had bombings in 2011, and you should remember the Bali bombings.

But just to let you know, for some of us Islam is not nice because it's very discriminatory and often inspires inequality in society. I thought someone like you who had a hatred for these views in Western society would be critical of their views, although aware of the risks of labelling everyone who follows the religion according to those views.

Anyway the gun deaths at the nightclub are sad, but being frank not worth getting too upset over. It happens, and the US populace sees it as an acceptable payoff. C'est la vie.


And Christianity in the United States is so tolerant. That explains all of the homeless gay youth on the streets and the legislation to make conversion therapy legitimate and all the Christians who think shoot to kill is a great thing. Tolerance, love, and acceptance. Riiiiight.... I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, if you believe that tripe.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:59 pm

seb146 wrote:
And Christianity in the United States is so tolerant. That explains all of the homeless gay youth on the streets and the legislation to make conversion therapy legitimate and all the Christians who think shoot to kill is a great thing. Tolerance, love, and acceptance. Riiiiight.... I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, if you believe that tripe.


You've not addressed any of my points. Why don't you try defending my criticisms rather than just deflecting? I'm not a Christian, so I don't know why you're referencing Christianity in a specific country that I'm not from and whose laws in many cases I don't agree with. I know the USA is somewhat intolerant. I'm making the point that some of us don't think Islam is terribly pleasant. The ideology. And that's not me condoning Christianity, because I'm not religious. At all.


Scorpio wrote:
Correction: the hardline Republican part of the US populace sees it as an acceptable payoff. The rest don't.


That's the case with democracy, we just saw it with Brexit. The country as a collective isn't too bothered about doing anything. We should accept that and hope that natural selection takes its due course.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:07 pm

winterlight wrote:
Apparently 2 dead and 17 injured. It's on the BBC so it must be true.


FALSE FLAG!!! WHOO HOOOO
 
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lugie
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:26 pm

seb146 wrote:

As far as making an entire religion the scapegoat for killing is not worth it. Look at the millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Morocco, etc. where there is no constant war. Why is that? Those countries have the same religion but stable governments. Religion is a weapon, not a symptom. People are not killing en masse because a holy text says so. They are manipulating holy text to fit their agenda.

Much like "we have to legislate against gays because the Bible says so but just ignore my fourth marriage and my lunch of bacon wrapped shrimp."


Maybe I didn't express myself correctly but that was exactly what I meant... Many people nowadays see religious extremism/terrorism as synonymous with islamic extremism/terrorism, entirely overseeing extremists like those Americans you mentioned or sectarian violence which is still a thing in Western Europe
 
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seb146
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Re: Florida shooting

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:46 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And Christianity in the United States is so tolerant. That explains all of the homeless gay youth on the streets and the legislation to make conversion therapy legitimate and all the Christians who think shoot to kill is a great thing. Tolerance, love, and acceptance. Riiiiight.... I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, if you believe that tripe.


You've not addressed any of my points. Why don't you try defending my criticisms rather than just deflecting? I'm not a Christian, so I don't know why you're referencing Christianity in a specific country that I'm not from and whose laws in many cases I don't agree with. I know the USA is somewhat intolerant. I'm making the point that some of us don't think Islam is terribly pleasant. The ideology. And that's not me condoning Christianity, because I'm not religious. At all.


Islam, especially in places like Syria and Saudi Arabia, is extreme. No one is questioning that. But, in a country like the United States, where extreme Christianity is being legislated against the Constitution, that is the point I am making. We get that *<i>SOME</i>* people who are radicalized use Islam as their excuse to kill. Which goes against their holy text. Much like *<i>SOME</i>* who claim to be Christian use their holy text to justify doing things against it. Like murder. Or eating bacon. Or legislation against LGBTQ people.

The biggest difference between radical Muslims and radical Christians is that radical Christians generally do not murder scores of innocent people at a time in the name of religion anymore. They simply get elected to office and pass archaic laws in the name of freedom.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Florida shooting

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:10 am

seb146 wrote:


We are just arguing semantics at this point. These low lifes want people to fear them. To be terrified of them. It is hate, fear, and terror.

As far as making an entire religion the scapegoat for killing is not worth it. Look at the millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Morocco, etc. where there is no constant war. Why is that? Those countries have the same religion but stable governments. Religion is a weapon, not a symptom. People are not killing en masse because a holy text says so. They are manipulating holy text to fit their agenda.

Much like "we have to legislate against gays because the Bible says so but just ignore my fourth marriage and my lunch of bacon wrapped shrimp."


I'd remove Indonesia from your list there is a lot of ethnic issues going on there which often boils over into conflict.
 
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seb146
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Re: Florida shooting

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:58 am

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:


We are just arguing semantics at this point. These low lifes want people to fear them. To be terrified of them. It is hate, fear, and terror.

As far as making an entire religion the scapegoat for killing is not worth it. Look at the millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Morocco, etc. where there is no constant war. Why is that? Those countries have the same religion but stable governments. Religion is a weapon, not a symptom. People are not killing en masse because a holy text says so. They are manipulating holy text to fit their agenda.

Much like "we have to legislate against gays because the Bible says so but just ignore my fourth marriage and my lunch of bacon wrapped shrimp."


I'd remove Indonesia from your list there is a lot of ethnic issues going on there which often boils over into conflict.


How often do they have ISIS attacks? They may have internal struggles and ethnic issues but they are the largest Muslim nation and they are much more peaceful than many others. If you want to tie religion to violence, the United States one of the most violent Christian nations per capita. Brazil and Mexico are up there as well.

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