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MaverickM11
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Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:07 am

The pivot continues...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/pre ... in-ukraine

""He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not gonna go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down," Trump said Sunday on ABC's "This Week."
Host George Stephanopoulos pushed back, saying, "Well, he's already there, isn't he?"

"OK, well, he's there in a certain way," Trump responded"
 
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Tugger
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:21 am

I think everyone knows he is a fool. I think of him as much like a carnival barker. He is there to get yout your attention and try to get you to see his attraction, to buy a ticket for what he is selling. And he will say pretty much anything to do that.

The problem is many people take him seriously and even more feel they cannot not support him fearing that will mean supporting "the other side".

Tugg
 
agill
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:37 am

How on earth can this mantoddler be a major party candidate?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 am

agill wrote:
How on earth can this mantoddler be a major party candidate?


Because he's going to make America Great Again! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:26 am

He is right, as far as I know Putin isn't planning to do a state visit to Ukraine any time soon. Crimea doesn't count as it's de facto Russian territory and that won't change.

If it's a full scale invasion we're talking about that isn't going to happen either.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:11 am

pvjin wrote:
Crimea doesn't count as it's de facto Russian territory and that won't change.


It is Ukrainian territory and will remain so. A faked vote doesn´t legalize an invasion.If they had any hopes to win a popular vote, they didn´t need to invade first.

best regards
Thomas
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:31 am

Image

"It’s quite a contrast. In 1984, Ronald Reagan won re-election with the help, in part, of a TV ad that began with the memorable line, “There’s a bear in the woods.” Without ever mentioning Soviet Russia by name, the ad played on cold war fears to suggest that only Reagan was prepared to face down the menace from the east. Back then, it was taken as read that the US Republican party would stand strong against an authoritarian, undemocratic regime in Moscow.
That’s not quite how it looks today. Serious people in the US are debating not only whether the Republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump, is an admirer and would-be ally of Vladimir Putin – extraordinary enough, given the party’s history – but whether he might, in effect, be an agent of Putin’s, a real-life version of the Manchurian Candidate."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ent-russia
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:02 am

Trump is trying to be Putin's fluffer so that either outcome he will gain financially. If he loses, he will use all that goodwill to finally get a tower built in Moscow. If he wins, he'll have his kids running Trump Inc. over in Moscow trying to finalize a deal before he's even sworn in.
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:14 pm

It is Ukrainian territory and will remain so. A faked vote doesn´t legalize an invasion.If they had any hopes to win a popular vote, they didn´t need to invade first.


The thing is that Ukrainians would have never allowed a Crimean wide popular vote because they would have known the outcome. Only vote they could have possibly allowed would have been an Ukrainian wide vote, with Ukrainian majority deciding the faith of Russian minority. And that's not how I see democracy as I believe power should be as close to the people as possible, and thus people who don't live in Crimea should have no say in which country the peninsula belongs to.

Besides, through history borders have always changed through military means, and will continue to change also in the future.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:33 pm

pvjin wrote:
The thing is that Ukrainians would have never allowed a Crimean wide popular vote because they would have known the outcome. Only vote they could have possibly allowed would have been an Ukrainian wide vote, with Ukrainian majority deciding the faith of Russian minority.


Well, we will only know that once Crimea is returned and Putin is rotting in a Cell in Den Haag....

And that's not how I see democracy as I believe power should be as close to the people as possible,


i guess that explains why you support Putin, who has done nothing but taking power from the people since he took office.

and thus people who don't live in Crimea should have no say in which country the peninsula belongs to.


Well, the people that do live in Crimea didn´t vote to join Russia, so Crimea is still just occupied Ukrainian territory. Bringing a few suitcases of filled in ballots an then count them is not a vote. Polls in the years before the Russian invasion never exceeded 41% in favor and often below for an average of 34%.

Besides, through history borders have always changed through military means, and will continue to change also in the future.


Robbers still rob banks, that doesn´t mean they are not criminals, nor that we shouldn´t be going after them. Putin is one of the few valid drone strike targets roaming the earth.

best regards
Thomas
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:45 pm

Well, we will only know that once Crimea is returned and Putin is rotting in a Cell in Den Haag....


In other words, never.
'
i guess that explains why you support Putin, who has done nothing but taking power from the people since he took office.


But the majority of people love him. Besides, I don't think democracy is the optimal form of system, it's enlightened dictatorship where the dictator agrees with me.

Well, the people that do live in Crimea didn´t vote to join Russia, so Crimea is still just occupied Ukrainian territory. Bringing a few suitcases of filled in ballots an then count them is not a vote. Polls in the years before the Russian invasion never exceeded 41% in favor and often below for an average of 34%.

I think the vote was largely legitimate. Polls from years before don't really matter because that was before Ukrainian nationalists took the power from Ukraine's legitimate head of state. Also, could you provide me a source for those polls?

Robbers still rob banks, that doesn´t mean they are not criminals, nor that we shouldn´t be going after them. Putin is one of the few valid drone strike targets roaming the earth.


Few? I think Middle East in particular has quite a lot more legitimate targets than "few".
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:52 pm

pvjin wrote:
I think the vote was largely legitimate. .


of course you do....

pvjin wrote:
Besides, I don't think democracy is the optimal form of system, it's enlightened dictatorship where the dictator agrees with me.


Well, i guess hell will freeze over and Putin will be in prison before anyone enlightened agrees with you. ;-)

best regards
Thomas
 
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lugie
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:15 pm

All these statements about Putin and the NATO slowly start adding up:

Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles buckle up and start downloading some duolingo language courses because if Trump gets elected you'll be part of Dictator Putin's glorious second Soviet Empire faster than you can say Crimea.
Even as NATO members you won't be able to expect help from the US army since Trump has openly stated he wouldn't necessarily follow Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty in case of a casus foederis against a NATO member.
The entire campaign starts making sense now...
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:37 pm

lugie wrote:
All these statements about Putin and the NATO slowly start adding up:

Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles buckle up and start downloading some duolingo language courses because if Trump gets elected you'll be part of Dictator Putin's glorious second Soviet Empire faster than you can say Crimea.
Even as NATO members you won't be able to expect help from the US army since Trump has openly stated he wouldn't necessarily follow Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty in case of a casus foederis against a NATO member.
The entire campaign starts making sense now...


Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca. Being part of the east with its healthy conservative values and national pride is much better than belonging to west with its failed project of European Union. Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.
 
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lugie
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:47 pm

pvjin wrote:
Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca. Being part of the east with its healthy conservative values and national pride is much better than belonging to west with its failed project of European Union. Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.


You've got to be kidding right?

There is so much wrong with this statement I couldn't have come up with anything better if I was asked to persiflage the new European alt-right conspiracists
 
cpd
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:51 pm

pvjin wrote:
Well, we will only know that once Crimea is returned and Putin is rotting in a Cell in Den Haag....


In other words, never.
'.


All it will take is for your Mr Trump to be offended by Putin and he'll retaliate.

And remember that drone the US were talking about, that Sr-72... Remember its first name was "prompt global strike" and it first came to light in the mid 90s if I remember right. Meaning it should be near operational by now. And your Donald Trump will inherit that capability... ;)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:58 pm

pvjin wrote:
Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca.


Says the brave man living in a free European country. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you think Russia and Putin are so great, why don't you just move there? I'm sure they'd be delighted to have you (assuming you're white and straight) :roll:
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:11 pm

You've got to be kidding right?

There is so much wrong with this statement I couldn't have come up with anything better if I was asked to persiflage the new European alt-right conspiracists


No, I'm dead serious. My statement is honest and pure, it's perfect.

All it will take is for your Mr Trump to be offended by Putin and he'll retaliate.


I think those two good men will together guarantee peace in our time after decades of chaos caused by corrupt US politicians.


Says the brave man living in a free European country. :lol::lol::lol:

If you think Russia and Putin are so great, why don't you just move there? I'm sure they'd be delighted to have you (assuming you're white and straight) :roll:


I could consider moving to Crimea or something, the climate there is pretty fine compared to Finland and they appear to produce good wine. However my schedule is too full for next year or so to learn Russian, so I can't do that to soon. You see, I'm way too busy studying Spanish as I see real hope in Latin America also. But after I'm done with that I'll go learn Russian for sure.
 
wingman
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:48 pm

To L410 or anyone, is it possible to mash up an image in the same color scheme and style of Putin riding Trump's shoulder (shirtless of course and holding onto his hair)? That'd be an instant classic.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:55 pm

wingman wrote:
To L410 or anyone, is it possible to mash up an image in the same color scheme and style of Putin riding Trump's shoulder (shirtless of course and holding onto his hair)? That'd be an instant classic.


Image

I think i see tongue...

best regards
Thomas
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:16 pm

pvjin wrote:
Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.


You know what? Why don't you hop on a ferry a spend a weekend in Tallin? Perhaps someone from the locals will have the patience to explain delusional teenager from Finland what a nightmare the last Russian-organized "true union of friendship between nation states" has been. Until then you will only continue to look like a fool who adores something he has absolutely no clue about.
:roll:

wingman wrote:
To L410 or anyone, is it possible to mash up an image


That Trump/Putin bumper sticker is not my work, it's just a link to an online image.
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:28 pm

You know what? Why don't you hop on a ferry a spend a weekend in Tallin? Perhaps someone from the locals will have the patience to explain delusional teenager from Finland what a nightmare the last Russian-organized "true union of friendship between nation states" has been. Until then you will only continue to look like a fool who adores something he has absolutely no clue about.


That was Soviet times, Putin is not a communist. Don't blame that fine man for mistakes of the past.
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:55 pm

pvjin wrote:
Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca. Being part of the east with its healthy conservative values and national pride is much better than belonging to west with its failed project of European Union. Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.

I'm sorry...say what?? If memory serves me correctly, not too long ago you couldn't get much more to the left with your posts. Now you're veering hard core right? Are you serious? Or are you just bored and trolling? Having been to a good chunk of Eastern Europe, and lived in places that used to BE the Soviet Union, I'd be willing to bet that you haven't. Either you're delusional or a troll. In which case no wonder you seem to hold Mr. Trump in such high regard....
pvjin wrote:
That was Soviet times, Putin is not a communist. Don't blame that fine man for mistakes of the past.

This comment is so full of nonsense and devoid of insight or understanding of history (if nothing else of who Vladimir Putin is) that it's not worth correcting.

pvjin wrote:
I could consider moving to Crimea or something, the climate there is pretty fine compared to Finland and they appear to produce good wine. However my schedule is too full for next year or so to learn Russian, so I can't do that to soon. You see, I'm way too busy studying Spanish as I see real hope in Latin America also. But after I'm done with that I'll go learn Russian for sure.

Like Venezuela or Boliva, no?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:11 pm

I'm sorry...say what?? If memory serves me correctly, not too long ago you couldn't get much more to the left with your posts. Now you're veering hard core right? Are you serious? Or are you just bored and trolling? Having been to a good chunk of Eastern Europe, and lived in places that used to BE the Soviet Union, I'd be willing to bet that you haven't. Either you're delusional or a troll. In which case no wonder you seem to hold Mr. Trump in such high regard....


Hey, I'm still leftist, just not a mainstream one. Modern day lefties in Europe are mostly of the ultra liberal type whose primary concerns are feminism, gay rights and tolerance of Islam which generally is very anti-gay and anti-feminist. This makes no sense, and thus I want to have no part in this giant nonsense of modern day mainstream leftism in Europe. I'm an alternative, or perhaps in a way traditional leftist. My primary concern is preserving the Finnish welfare state, and right now both neoliberals and modern day lefties in the EU are threatening its survival. The EU is our enemy number one, and the EU hates Putin, which makes Putin the perfect ally. I don't really mind his nationalistic views either as I believe every nation should serve its own citizen first and foremost, and no that doesn't make me a Nazi.

This comment is so full of nonsense and devoid of insight or understanding of history (if nothing else of who Vladimir Putin is) that it's not worth correcting.


I know of his KGB background and all, but Putin is first and foremost a nationalistic figure.

Like Venezuela or Boliva, no?? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Cuba is nice, Venezuela would be nice too if they had been more authoritarian like Cuba. Too much freedom causes criminality and corruption which the Venezuelan government has been unable to deal with.
 
Olddog
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:19 pm

I wonder how pvjin is not on everyone ignore list by now :)
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:23 pm

Olddog wrote:
I wonder how pvjin is not on everyone ignore list by now :)


Fixed that just now.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:50 pm

pvjin wrote:
Cuba is nice, Venezuela would be nice too if they had been more authoritarian like Cuba. Too much freedom causes criminality and corruption which the Venezuelan government has been unable to deal with.


Too much authoritarianism does the same thing.

Ever seen how corrupt most one party states are?
 
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lugie
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:04 pm

pvjin wrote:

No, I'm dead serious. My statement is honest and pure, it's perfect.

Wow, just wow

pvjin wrote:

I think those two good men will together guarantee peace in our time after decades of chaos caused by corrupt US politicians.

The only leader of a G8 country in the 21st century to effectively annex foreign land and a guy who during 1 year of campaigning has already managed to discredit every single minority group in his country.
Sure that only seems to breathe peaceful era. In other words, if peace means a reign of Putin, Trump and the likes I'd prefer war anytime, no thanks.

pvjin wrote:
That was Soviet times, Putin is not a communist. Don't blame that fine man [#mancrushmonday :lol: :lol: ] for mistakes of the past.

vs
pvjin wrote:
Cuba is nice, Venezuela would be nice too if they had been more authoritarian like Cuba. Too much freedom causes criminality and corruption which the Venezuelan government has been unable to deal with.

you do know that Cuba is among the last Communist states of this world, right? Nice dude, you managed to contradict yourself within two consecutive posts, kudos.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:04 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Too much authoritarianism does the same thing.

Ever seen how corrupt most one party states are?


As a free democratic western nation, it's very, very, hard to understand real corruption. I've run our central European office for 2 years, our SE Asian one for 4 years, and here in America now bookended for lots of years. Singapore and Japan, so little corruption and issues to deal with as company director. Indonesia, Malaysia, so much by comparison. Our Czech office was so much harder to run than an American one. I noticed in the latest corruption index of 175 major countries Finland is #3 out of 175. Russia? 136 out of 175. Have at it.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:45 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

It is Ukrainian territory and will remain so. A faked vote doesn´t legalize an invasion.If they had any hopes to win a popular vote, they didn´t need to invade first.

best regards
Thomas


It's Russian, I bet within the next few years or so Ukraine will be thrown under the bus and Crimea will be recognized as Russian territory. Ukraine will never get it back, and nobody is going to help them go to war to get it back either, it's just not worth it. By all accounts the vast majority of people living there are happy. My company are getting more work from Crimea now than we ever had in the past.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:59 pm

pvjin wrote:
That was Soviet times, Putin is not a communist. Don't blame that fine man for mistakes of the past.


That "fine man" of yours :roll: is a product of the Soviet era. He was breastfed by Andropov and babysitted by Brezhnev (or was it the other way around?) and then spent 16 years helping to keep the commies in power by force both in Russia and East Germany. The mere fact that he has chosen to join the repressive apparatus of a totalitarian system that sent millions of its own citizens into gulags speaks volumes about the deformed character and values of this "fine man".

Kiwirob wrote:
It's Russian, I bet within the next few years or so Ukraine will be thrown under the bus and Crimea will be recognized as Russian territory..


The evening shift of Putin's cheerleaders has arrived... ;)
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:00 pm

I wonder how pvjin is not on everyone ignore list by now :)


Yes bury your head in the sand like a true liberal.


Too much authoritarianism does the same thing.

Ever seen how corrupt most one party states are?


Plenty of democracies are extremely corrupt, especially the poor ones.

The only leader of a G8 country in the 21st century to effectively annex foreign land and a guy who during 1 year of campaigning has already managed to discredit every single minority group in his country.
Sure that only seems to breathe peaceful era. In other words, if peace means a reign of Putin, Trump and the likes I'd prefer war anytime, no thanks.


Well, I'm tired of minorities constantly whining about this and that, Trump is doing the right thing when he doesn't put up with racist nonsense like BLM. And yes, it would be peaceful era when Trump wouldn't be promoting war in far away lands like previous presidents have done.

you do know that Cuba is among the last Communist states of this world, right? Nice dude, you managed to contradict yourself within two consecutive posts, kudos.


I know, I've always liked Cuban commies more than I like Soviet ones.

That "fine man" of yours :roll: is a product of the Soviet era. He was breastfed by Andropov and babysitted by Brezhnev (or was it the other way around?) and then spent 16 years helping to keep the commies in power by force both in Russia and East Germany. The mere fact that he has chosen to join the repressive apparatus of a totalitarian system that sent millions of its own citizens into gulags speaks volumes about the deformed character and values of this "fine man".


Anybody would have likely done the same in his situation. If you can't change the system then you should either emigrate or do whatever it takes to survive and do well within that system. As far as I can see that's what Putin did by taking the opportunities he was given. Anyway, with that logic of yours I could say that for example all US military personnel are evil people for supporting such a monstrous machine that has killed an enormous amount of people for nothing.
 
captainmeeerkat
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:03 pm

I'd love to see people's real reasons for not liking Russia (apart from biased media reports and propaganda)

Is it the whole invasion of Crimea thing?

Need we mention again Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Libya etc etc? Where is the hate for all of that?

Is it the whole Russia is corrupt?

Find me a country that isn't corrupt! At least in Russia it is seen. And as someone who has lived there for more than 5 years, things are really changing!

Is it the whole dictator thing?

Russia has traditionally needed a strong central leader to unify the country. That trend continues. And I'd rather Putin than Trump. Putin says something on Monday and it's the same on Tuesday. Trump changes his view before the end of a sentence. And look at what country has sent a bigoted racist egoist to a 50/50 race to the most powerful office in the land. I feel safe here, safer than I would in France or Germany at the moment.

Is it the whole human rights and LGBT thing?

Let's ask the US what it does for that community with their partner Saudi Arabia? Typical double standards. And ask ANYONE here the difference between the pre-Putin and post-Putin years which is better? The answer is clear to those who have actually travelled to Russia, met the people and seen what life is like here.

So out with it! What is it that people just hate about a country that is so similiar to all the other world players?

A poster said "white and straight" above! Ha...yet white cops in the US can kill unarmed black citizens and get away with it. Where is the international tribunal for that? Double standards
 
bhill
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:55 pm

Nor can Trump count the total number of Articles in the Constitution.....hint....you do not need all 10 digits....
 
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lugie
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:55 pm

pvjin wrote:

Anybody would have likely done the same in his situation. If you can't change the system then you should either emigrate or do whatever it takes to survive and do well within that system. As far as I can see that's what Putin did by taking the opportunities he was given. Anyway, with that logic of yours I could say that for example all US military personnel are evil people for supporting such a monstrous machine that has killed an enormous amount of people for nothing.


Big words coming from someone who in a parallel thread disrespects KIA Cpt Khan for not disobeying orders because his service was deemed unnecessary by said armchair expert.
 
64947
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:36 am

Looks like there is finally a U.S. Politician who is in contact with reality.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:44 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It's Russian, I bet within the next few years or so Ukraine will be thrown under the bus and Crimea will be recognized as Russian territory.


last time i checked the recognized borders of Israel are still those of 1967 and they are still facing sanctions, increasing sanctions btw, for almost 40 years now. And Israel certainly has much, much, much more lobby than Russia.

lugie wrote:
[Sure that only seems to breathe peaceful era. In other words, if peace means a reign of Putin, Trump and the likes I'd prefer war anytime, no thanks..


Well, Trump may very well give us a lot of peace.

Image

best regards
Thomas
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:48 am

Nice cartoon, I hope it becomes a reality some day. Turning the United States into a post apocalyptic wasteland would be most helpful in fighting the climate change, after all the country is responsible for such a high percentage of global emissions. Then every living American could be happy when the federal government isn't taking away their guns, police forces aren't shooting unarmed black people, no state governments limiting gay rights, no mass migration from Mexico and so on.

Everybody wins, except those unable to take care of themselves.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:13 pm

pvjin wrote:
Nice cartoon, I hope it becomes a reality some day. Turning the United States into a post apocalyptic wasteland would be most helpful in fighting the climate change


I don't think a Pro-Russian has much moral high ground when it comes to pollution now do they?
 
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pvjin
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:38 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Nice cartoon, I hope it becomes a reality some day. Turning the United States into a post apocalyptic wasteland would be most helpful in fighting the climate change


I don't think a Pro-Russian has much moral high ground when it comes to pollution now do they?


Yes I do when it comes to Co2 emission:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita

The US is 12th worst, while Russia is 23th. Let's not forget that on average Russia is significantly colder than the US, which means more heating costs and thus more Co2 emissions caused by the environment rather than pure carelessness. So Americans on average are really, really, really bad when it comes to well being of the environment.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:58 pm

At least Trump made a mistake regarding Ukraine now - not in 2 months in debates with Hillary.

Remember President Ford 40 years ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfyL4uQVJLw
Last edited by bmacleod on Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14893
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:50 pm

pvjin wrote:
So Americans on average are really, really, really bad when it comes to well being of the environment.


And CO2 is so convenient, because poor countries like Russia always fare well in that comparison. Two of the 10 most polluted places on this planet are in Russia, two used to be in the soviet union....

best regards
Thomas
 
luckyone
Posts: 4321
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:09 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
So Americans on average are really, really, really bad when it comes to well being of the environment.


And CO2 is so convenient, because poor countries like Russia always fare well in that comparison. Two of the 10 most polluted places on this planet are in Russia, two used to be in the soviet union....

best regards
Thomas

Indeed. Take a trip up to Norilsk, where the air and soil is so polluted from inefficient smelting that it's economically feasible to mine the soil. Except one cannot visit without being Russian because the government of Russia prevents people from accessing it.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4927
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:27 pm

lugie wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca. Being part of the east with its healthy conservative values and national pride is much better than belonging to west with its failed project of European Union. Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.


You've got to be kidding right?

There is so much wrong with this statement I couldn't have come up with anything better if I was asked to persiflage the new European alt-right conspiracists


Don't worry, you can be sure that Pvjin will stop supporting Russian Expansionism as soon as Russian Immigrants start showing up in his neighbourhood (especially the Muslim ones from Tartarstan, Dagestan etc). :lol:
 
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PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
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Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:39 pm

luckyone wrote:
Indeed. Take a trip up to Norilsk, where the air and soil is so polluted from inefficient smelting that it's economically feasible to mine the soil. Except one cannot visit without being Russian because the government of Russia prevents people from accessing it.


Not to mention the nuclear waste the USSR dumped under the now thawed and thawing Arctic Ocean! Now that mess is rearing its head, it will even take more cleanup efforts.

USSR nuclear subs? What subs?
https://news.vice.com/article/the-sovie ... -the-ocean
 
bhill
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:36 pm

OK, OK...Russian CO2 output...not so much. Now about the nuclear meltdowns and disposal of...........

Uhuh.....give or take a few 10's of thousands of years for those places to be habitable again....to bad they are forbidden to be on a map....
 
captainmeeerkat
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:13 am

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:35 pm

zkojq wrote:
lugie wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Sounds good, I hope we'll all join Eurasian Union with Russian as a common lingua franca. Being part of the east with its healthy conservative values and national pride is much better than belonging to west with its failed project of European Union. Eurasian Union could be the true union of friendship between nation states, rather than the EU which is aiming to become something rotten like the US.


You've got to be kidding right?

There is so much wrong with this statement I couldn't have come up with anything better if I was asked to persiflage the new European alt-right conspiracists


Don't worry, you can be sure that Pvjin will stop supporting Russian Expansionism as soon as Russian Immigrants start showing up in his neighbourhood (especially the Muslim ones from Tartarstan, Dagestan etc). :lol:


Firstly, it's Tatarstan. Secondly, it has around a 50% Muslim population, the VAST majority of whom have no intention of leaving. Indeed those living here (myself included) who see the reality will tell you that it has a net immigration level rather than migration or emigration. If people were more willing to educate themselves about Russia rather than making stupid generalizations, they might understand things better.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 15327
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:26 pm

captainmeeerkat wrote:
I'd love to see people's real reasons for not liking Russia (apart from biased media reports and propaganda)

Is it the whole invasion of Crimea thing?

Need we mention again Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Libya etc etc? Where is the hate for all of that?


The USA has not taken any territory from those countries, last time I checked.

Besides there is plenty of hate, in the US itself, for those wars. People are free to voice their opinion, and do. We're talking about Trump and he's doing it.

In Russia, everybody toes the line or ends up in jail or worse.
 
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PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:59 pm

Aesma wrote:
In Russia, everybody toes the line or ends up in jail or worse.


Exactly. Let's be honest. Most of us form our opinion on various matters using the 4th Estate, the media / news organizations. When Putin starts murdering journalists how much unvarnished or opposition research will we ever get to see or read? I watched a minor example of that during the run up to the Iraq War 2.0. I would say 95% of all newsies toed the Bush Admin b.s. arguments without question. This kissing arse is what gave rise to John Stewart, Daily Show and Keith Olbermann on MSNBC. The 4th Estate got cowed into toeing the line to the ultimate disservice to the war debate.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4927
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Trump: Putin not gonna go into Ukraine

Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:12 am

luckyone wrote:
Indeed. Take a trip up to Norilsk, where the air and soil is so polluted from inefficient smelting that it's economically feasible to mine the soil. Except one cannot visit without being Russian because the government of Russia prevents people from accessing it.

As a former shareholder in Norilsk Nickel, I hope that the locals are grateful for what we've done for them. ;)

captainmeeerkat wrote:
Firstly, it's Tatarstan. Secondly, it has around a 50% Muslim population, the VAST majority of whom have no intention of leaving. Indeed those living here (myself included) who see the reality will tell you that it has a net immigration level rather than migration or emigration.

Read what I wrote again. My point was not with Russia (Bashkortostan is actually kinda nice IMO), but rather with Pvjin's rather wacky world view. I do hope that the people of Tatarstan aren't offended due to my mispelling.

PacificBeach88 wrote:
When Putin starts murdering journalists how much unvarnished or opposition research will we ever get to see or read?

Ask just about any Russian about these and they will tell you unequivocally that 1) Mr Putin had nothing whatsoever to do with their deaths 2) merely a coincidence that said journalists are critical of Putin and 3) that the journalists deserved it for writing lies that make Russia look bad. ;)

PacificBeach88 wrote:
I watched a minor example of that during the run up to the Iraq War 2.0. I would say 95% of all newsies toed the Bush Admin b.s. arguments without question.

It was pretty sickening.

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