Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:48 am

mariner wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Really to me it just represents the wider incompatibility of traditional Islam with western way of life, an incompatibility that is leading to things like terrorism, poor integration of European Muslims which in turn leads to more crime and unemployment. All of these things make my life worse, if not directly then through increasing security hassle and more social costs.


She wears it to go to the beach. How is that "incompatible" with the western way of life?

She prefers to dress modestly at the beach. It's called freedom of personal choice which - I thought - was a western value and Marks and Spencer in the UK have decided there's money in it - another western value - LOL.


In France H&M tried to launch an "islamic" collection and there was a huge backlash, they abandoned it.

France has never claimed multiculturalism and in fact rejects the concept.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:55 am

mariner wrote:
pvjin wrote:
If women in Australia and New Zealand start wearing burka all the time like many Muslim women do they'll soon be developing cancer and other serious diseases because of vitamin D deficiency, like a lot of Muslim women in countries with plenty of sunlight.


Oh, don't be silly. Who said wearing a burka, and who said wearing it all the time?

We're wearing about a burkini - worn at the beach.

mariner


That's where you're wrong. This cultural war has been going on since the 80's. The burkini is the latest battle, far from being the first one. It started with a high school girl wearing a veil at school in 1989.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6285
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:25 am

coolian2 wrote:
so what if HER faith comes first? That's her problem. Not yours.


You have summed up in one sentence why islam has such a huge problem coexist in a secular society. When those "her" start to count in tens or hundreds of thousands it becomes a problem for everyone in a society which up until recently lived in a consensus that religion is a private matter.

mariner wrote:
Non-Muslims flock to buy burkinis as French bans raise profile of the modest swimwear style

"I am a non-Muslim southern Californian woman. I am a skin cancer survivor, which means I can't get out in the sun [in a regular swimsuit]."


If you have actually read the article, it's a quote on quote of the woman who invented this thing. She repeats that in every article written about her which ends up being a self promo. She is not stupid and knows that there is no such thing as negative publicity.


seb146 wrote:
Are the burkini clad women screaming at all the nearly nude French women telling them they will burn in the fires for wearing next to nothing?


No. Not yet.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:33 am

Seb146

With all due respect, women do get a good education in KSA
The number of males graduating annually from university rose from 795 in 1970 to 21,229 in 1999, while the number of female graduates rose from 13 to 21,721 – ending in a total that slightly exceeded the number of male graduates. The number of Saudi women graduating from university has grown at an average rate 2.5 times that of male graduates during the last decade.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s ... udi_Arabia
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:57 am

Aesma wrote:
That's where you're wrong. This cultural war has been going on since the 80's. The burkini is the latest battle, far from being the first one. It started with a high school girl wearing a veil at school in 1989.


The cultural wars have been going on a lot longer than that, at least in the places I have lived. I recall the bitter resentment - by some - of black immigration into the UK in the 1950's and the expulsion of Indians from Uganda to the UK in 1972.

L410Turbolet wrote:
If you have actually read the article, it's a quote on quote of the woman who invented this thing. She repeats that in every article written about her which ends up being a self promo. She is not stupid and knows that there is no such thing as negative publicity.


See Marks and Spencer, above.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:03 am

But it's not about immigration. Most muslims in France are from North Africa, where the veil wasn't that prevalent in the past, and certainly not the black stuff we see now. In fact I see more of this where I live than when I visit Morocco !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6285
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:23 am

mariner wrote:
See Marks and Spencer, above.

mariner


I have read that. They prostitute themselves on the spread of islam. IG Farben, IBM or Mannessmann cashed in on the spread of nazism. Would anyone praise that?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:29 am

If you read the comments most readers don't seem impressed, many even pledge to boycott M&S.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23126
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:07 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Are the burkini clad women screaming at all the nearly nude French women telling them they will burn in the fires for wearing next to nothing?


No. Not yet.


So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?

I am curious about something: Spain has some land in Morocco, doesn't it? How does the Moroccan government feel about women wearing bikinis on the beaches there?

SOBHI51: Thank you for the clarification and information.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:29 pm

You can wear bikinis in Morocco itself. Moroccan women do it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6285
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:50 pm

seb146 wrote:

So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?


You don't have to read everything so literally. Next time you are in a bookstore, grab Houellebecq's Submission and decide for yourself f it really "has no chance of happening".
You are also forgetting the sad role of the non-muslim PC brigade, who proactively purges children's libraries of classic fairy tales, bans piggy banks, cancel Christmas markets or rename them with bullsh*t names like Winterval or feed children halal food without asking if they want it or not,
Last edited by L410Turbolet on Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Are the burkini clad women screaming at all the nearly nude French women telling them they will burn in the fires for wearing next to nothing?


No. Not yet.


So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?

I am curious about something: Spain has some land in Morocco, doesn't it? How does the Moroccan government feel about women wearing bikinis on the beaches there?

SOBHI51: Thank you for the clarification and information.


What will happen in the future will depend from whether mainstream Islam will modernize itself or not. During past two decades or so with rise of political Islam things have gone the other way around, towards less tolerance and more fanaticism. Saudis pumping money to spread their Wahhabist ideology in previously moderate areas doesn't really help either.

I really hope that some previously secular European country will get a Muslim majority in my lifestyle, I really want to see in practice what it will mean to political life and society of that country, as I really can't think of any examples of that happening in recent times.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:42 pm

Sobhi51 are you happy to see your wife and maybe daughters wearing this crap whilst you and your sons happily wander around in board shorts or budgysmugglers!

If Muslim men were happy to dress like this then I'd be ok with it, but they don't.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:47 pm

seb146 wrote:

I am curious about something: Spain has some land in Morocco, doesn't it? How does the Moroccan government feel about women wearing bikinis on the beaches there?

SOBHI51: Thank you for the clarification and information.


What business is it of Morocco, those beaches are Spanish property, what Morocco feels about it matters not a jot.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:28 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?


You don't have to read everything so literally. Next time you are in a bookstore, grab Houellebecq's Submission and decide for yourself f it really "has no chance of happening".
You are also forgetting the sad role of the non-muslim PC brigade, who proactively purges children's libraries of classic fairy tales, bans piggy banks, cancel Christmas markets or rename them with bullsh*t names like Winterval or feed children halal food without asking if they want it or not,

I was going to take your quote of me, and the reply seriously.

I will now not.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:37 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I have read that. They prostitute themselves on the spread of islam. IG Farben, IBM or Mannessmann cashed in on the spread of nazism. Would anyone praise that?


Capitalism will prostitute itself on anything, really. As Lenin is reported to have said - the last capitalist will sell us the rope with which to hang him. :-)

Aesma wrote:
If you read the comments most readers don't seem impressed, many even pledge to boycott M&S.


Well, one of them does. Another says she doesn't shop there anyway. Each to their own, but I wouldn't base any opinion on the comments section of the Daily Mail. LOL.

I remain astonished that so many here are ready to deny women - or anyone - their right to choose whatever they want to the beach. I'm old enough to remember when bikinis were banned at Bondi Beach in Sydney - by men, of course.

http://www.waverley.nsw.gov.au/__data/a ... _1960s.pdf

Bikini arrests on Bondi Beach: 1940s-1960s"

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:41 pm

I'm not for such bans and think they're not legal anyways.

Conversely, I don't believe the clothes are harmless and worn freely.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:03 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Sobhi51 are you happy to see your wife and maybe daughters wearing this crap whilst you and your sons happily wander around in board shorts or budgysmugglers!

If Muslim men were happy to dress like this then I'd be ok with it, but they don't.

My wife and daughter wear what they like, i only object if something my daughter is wearing is too revealing. For a time my wife wore the hijab covering her hair, after a while she decided not to wear it anymore. Her choice on both times.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:25 am

mariner wrote:
I remain astonished that so many here are ready to deny women - or anyone - their right to choose whatever they want to the beach. I'm old enough to remember when bikinis were banned at Bondi Beach in Sydney - by men, of course.
It only confirms what history has shown over and over again. Mankind, the male brain in particular evolves at an incredible slow pace. I guess that's why it's called mankind in the first place.

Just reading an article about French police forcing a woman to remove her outfit on a French beach. After videos of women getting stoned to death for adultery in Afghanistan, I thought I'd seen it all.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23126
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:18 am

pvjin wrote:
seb146 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:


No. Not yet.


So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?

I am curious about something: Spain has some land in Morocco, doesn't it? How does the Moroccan government feel about women wearing bikinis on the beaches there?

SOBHI51: Thank you for the clarification and information.


What will happen in the future will depend from whether mainstream Islam will modernize itself or not. During past two decades or so with rise of political Islam things have gone the other way around, towards less tolerance and more fanaticism. Saudis pumping money to spread their Wahhabist ideology in previously moderate areas doesn't really help either.

I really hope that some previously secular European country will get a Muslim majority in my lifestyle, I really want to see in practice what it will mean to political life and society of that country, as I really can't think of any examples of that happening in recent times.


I can see Islam splitting right now. The "traditional" Islam in the Middle East and the "progressive" Islam in North America, Europe, and east Asia. Problem is: certain Westerners refuse to let these Muslims evolve. They still are closed minded as to how Islam is changing and how Islam works anyway. These closed minded Westerners see hijab or burqa and just assume they are a terrorist. They hear Arabic being spoken and assume they are making terrorist plans.

Perhaps leave the "progressive" Muslims alone and only deal with them when the law says, not when Westerners are offended.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23126
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:26 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?


You don't have to read everything so literally. Next time you are in a bookstore, grab Houellebecq's Submission and decide for yourself f it really "has no chance of happening".
You are also forgetting the sad role of the non-muslim PC brigade, who proactively purges children's libraries of classic fairy tales, bans piggy banks, cancel Christmas markets or rename them with bullsh*t names like Winterval or feed children halal food without asking if they want it or not,


None of this makes sense. "Markets" rename themselves because, in December, there is more than just Christmas. This way, there is more money to be made because holiday markets have a broader appeal than Christmas markets. That is more about the bottom line and realizing that the United States has more than just one religion.

The only fairy tales I could find that were banned was Grimm's Fairy Tales because they were deemed too graphic for young children. Agreed. Have you ever read the original? Removing it from the "children" section and put in the "adult" section is fair.

Halal is the process of slaughter. Why is that an issue?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:15 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
Just reading an article about French police forcing a woman to remove her outfit on a French beach.


Image

I found those photos really quite disturbing.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
HGL
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 3:25 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:33 am

seb146 wrote:
Halal is the process of slaughter. Why is that an issue?


Halal simply means permitted or approved. In connection with food it covers more than just meat. An apple is perfectly halal, for example, as is honey, milk and bread. Some people object because they see halal certification as a secret means of conversion as to be completely halal means that no invocation or blessing is made to any other than God/Allah. Yes, I know the idea of forced conversion sounds silly but some people actually do claim that. You see the same sort of nonsense from those who object to people saying, "God bless you," if you sneeze.

Others, including a Liberal politician in Australia, have suggested that the funds from certification could be used to fund terrorism. He has never provided any evidence that any actually has, but made the claim anyway.

Others pretend that their aversion to halal stems from the manner of killing an animal, believing that smashing them in the brain with a bolt is somehow "more humane". This ignores the fact that not every animal is actually stunned on the first attempt. Some people (vegetarians and/or vegans for example) may have a point but I believe that many people's objection stems from the same reason as objection to the burkini: ignorance and the fact that "these people" are different, foreign and we don't like people who are not really part of "us".
Qui omnes despicit, omnibus displicit.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:08 am

I know it might be another difficult thing to understand but there is no French police in that picture. They are local "municipal police", not much more than security guards. They can't arrest people for example, they must call a real cop to do that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:14 am

What a stupid, provocative, counter-productive policy. I hope (and assume) it will be struck down by the court this week.

You now basically have a French equivalent to Saudi etc. morality police telling women what they can and can't wear. In no way is this a public safety issue, like one could argue that covering the face is (for identity reasons) or that certain loose-fitting swimwear is in pools with filtration systems. This is just schoolyard bullying. It sounds like something Donald Trump would propose. Not surprised to hear that when a woman was being arrested for wearing one of these people were shouting "go home" etc. at the woman. All it does is generate more mistrust and hatred and division. In no way can it <i>possibly</i> be claimed to reduce the likelihood of a terrorist attack, but it sure seems likely to raise that likelihood. Also, even a basic knowledge of psychology makes it obvious that banning something like this will turn it into a symbol or resistance.

For those claiming that policies like this are protecting women from being forced to wear these garments: stop dressing up your patronizing presumption and xenophobia as feminism. There are plenty of women who wear veils because they are forced to, and plenty who do it because they want to. If you really care, support anonymous women's shelters and hotlines run within communities. Don't impose your own dress code on women.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6285
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their t mjowns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:46 am

seb146 wrote:
This way, there is more money to be made because holiday markets have a broader appeal than Christmas markets. That is more about the bottom line and realizing that the United States has more than just one religion.


What makes you think I was talking about the US? :roll:

seb146 wrote:
Halal is the process of slaughter. Why is that an issue?


Halal is not just slaughter of animals. If you for example want to export food to a muslim country you need a halal cerificate even for a freakin' breakfast cereal. What I have been told, Malaysia or Indonesia are far stricter in this regards, than the Gulf.
BTW, are you seriously asking why is animal cruelty an issue?Another issue is: Why should I be deprived of choice when sellouts from secular countries (paging Qantas) switch to all-halal, without non-halal being left at least as an option? That's what I am pointing out to, why the process of pandering to islam so often means removing choice for all non-muslims. If schools in heavily islamized areas in Europe feel they should cater halal food to muslim pupils so let it be an option, but why should everyone else be by default subjected to foreign cultural norms of a minority?

seb146 wrote:
Problem is: certain Westerners refuse to let these Muslims evolve.


Of course, it's everoyone's fault but Muslims'. How could I forget that tired old lefties' mantra? I heard that Abdul in Karachi missed a bus to work this morning. I knew the very moment some bloody closed minded westerner was to be blamed for that!
Meanwhile in the real world..., mohammedans will have to find their own Wycliffe, Hus or Luther and let them gain relevance. No one can help them with that. Any reform must come from within.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:31 am

seb146 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Are the burkini clad women screaming at all the nearly nude French women telling them they will burn in the fires for wearing next to nothing?


No. Not yet.


So, you are afraid of something that has never happened in the past and has almost no chance of happening?

I am curious about something: Spain has some land in Morocco, doesn't it? How does the Moroccan government feel about women wearing bikinis on the beaches there?


Spain has two small enclaves in Africa and a few rocks off the coast of Morocco, but those were Spanish since the XV century, long before there was anything resembling the current Moroccan state.

But, as Aesma said, you can wear a bikini (though not go topless) in Morocco anyway. Actually the burkini is banned in private high-end pools and hotel beaches in Morocco.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their t mjowns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:52 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Halal is not just slaughter of animals. If you for example want to export food to a muslim country you need a halal cerificate even for a freakin' breakfast cereal. What I have been told, Malaysia or Indonesia are far stricter in this regards, than the Gulf.


At that point is basically a certificate that no pork (or other banned animals)-derived oils/flour/whatever. Just like there are halal cosmetics and not unlike kosher wine, etc.

Halal means just "permitted"

It's basically an extra tax if you want to do business with strict sky fairy-believing people.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:09 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
mariner wrote:
I remain astonished that so many here are ready to deny women - or anyone - their right to choose whatever they want to the beach. I'm old enough to remember when bikinis were banned at Bondi Beach in Sydney - by men, of course.
It only confirms what history has shown over and over again. Mankind, the male brain in particular evolves at an incredible slow pace. I guess that's why it's called mankind in the first place.

Just reading an article about French police forcing a woman to remove her outfit on a French beach. After videos of women getting stoned to death for adultery in Afghanistan, I thought I'd seen it all.


And you think if a French woman went to a KSA beach wearing a thong and a smile she would be allowed, I think far worse would happen than the above.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:13 am

Kiwirob wrote:
And you think if a French woman went to a KSA beach wearing a thong and a smile she would be allowed, I think far worse would happen than the above.


But we're not talking about Saudi Arabia - w're talking about France.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
JJJ
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:22 am

Kiwirob wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
mariner wrote:
I remain astonished that so many here are ready to deny women - or anyone - their right to choose whatever they want to the beach. I'm old enough to remember when bikinis were banned at Bondi Beach in Sydney - by men, of course.
It only confirms what history has shown over and over again. Mankind, the male brain in particular evolves at an incredible slow pace. I guess that's why it's called mankind in the first place.

Just reading an article about French police forcing a woman to remove her outfit on a French beach. After videos of women getting stoned to death for adultery in Afghanistan, I thought I'd seen it all.


And you think if a French woman went to a KSA beach wearing a thong and a smile she would be allowed, I think far worse would happen than the above.


A French woman won't even get a visa to enter KSA if she's not going with her husband or a male family member.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:28 am

seb146 wrote:

Halal is the process of slaughter. Why is that an issue?


It's the way beasts are slaughtered that an issue, as with kosher slaughter the animals are not stunned first.

See attached videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VnN1AAOO-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG-yUGMK5mw

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shoppin ... abuse.html
 
vc10
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:33 am

Now I am not a Muslim, but as far as I understand women in the Muslim faith are asked to dress modestly, whilst in public, and their attire should not show the outline of their body. So perhaps these burkinis do not suit the requirements of the faith, as they do show the body's.
outline.

With that said though I do not see how you can ban them, as would you ban them if they were the product of the French Design industry.

littlevc10
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:36 am

mariner wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
And you think if a French woman went to a KSA beach wearing a thong and a smile she would be allowed, I think far worse would happen than the above.


But we're not talking about Saudi Arabia - w're talking about France.

mariner


The Saudis have their rules, and the French have their rules, if you don't like either countries rules don't go there, I don't even understand why this is worthy of debate. I happen to agree with the French rules, big thumbs up, I don't agree with the Saudis and would never travel there. Muslim families should understand this, either live like a French person in France or go back home and live like a Muslim person, its a simple choice.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23126
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:43 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
mariner wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
And you think if a French woman went to a KSA beach wearing a thong and a smile she would be allowed, I think far worse would happen than the above.


But we're not talking about Saudi Arabia - w're talking about France.

mariner


The Saudis have their rules, and the French have their rules, if you don't like either countries rules don't go there, I don't even understand why this is worthy of debate. I happen to agree with the French rules, big thumbs up, I don't agree with the Saudis and would never travel there. Muslim families should understand this, either live like a French person in France or go back home and live like a Muslim person, its a simple choice.


What is the law on women wearing bikinis? I mean, will all women who refuse to wear a bikini be sent to prison or fined?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:25 pm

You're just being stupid now seb, what do you care anyway you're not even interested in women.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23126
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:58 am

Kiwirob wrote:
You're just being stupid now seb, what do you care anyway you're not even interested in women.


Actually, I don't give a rip what someone wears to the beach. There is a difference.

While I would love to see certain men frolicking on a beach in a Speedo, if they want to wear board shorts or sweats or a tux, why should I throw a fit? It is none of my business.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:06 am

I haven't read all of the replies so far, but I did hear today on the radio French police surrounded a Muslim like dressed woman and demanded she remove part / a lot of her clothing. Really, France? Really? As a young Asian American lad growing up, I always looked to the French as the model of acceptance. I guess I'm just sad that I've come to realize that my own flawed country, the USA is much better at integrating humans than my Francophile tendencies might otherwise permit. That said, I do realize my Canadian friends and neighbors are far more accepting than we Americans are. But both the USA and Canada could teach the world a thing or two about accepting outsiders. *shrug*
 
User avatar
PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:14 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You're just being stupid now seb, what do you care anyway you're not even interested in women.


Actually, I don't give a rip what someone wears to the beach. There is a difference.

While I would love to see certain men frolicking on a beach in a Speedo, if they want to wear board shorts or sweats or a tux, why should I throw a fit? It is none of my business.


Agreed. I was reviewing pics of hubby and I at our beach place in Pacific Beach, CA (San Diego). We have everything from Speedos on, to full wetsuits & flotation jackets, and everything in-between. I'm now a 40 something, relatively tall Asian at 6'1" and 200 lbs, but you probably wouldn't want to see me in a Speedo only. My love handles are nonexistent if I'm wearing "boardies" lol. Put me into a Speedo spandex bandage, and well....you wouldn't be adding me to your porn library any time soon.

That said, it's the beach. I begrudge no one, anything. Go have fun! If you want to surf, go surf! If you want to boogie board, go boogie board! If you want to body surf, go body surf! If you just want to jump in the waves, go jump in the waves! I'm sad, that such an amazing pastime is becoming a politically correct time to wear something your may not feel comfortable in.

Think about it. These women are being asked to wear LESS than they usually do or feel comfortable wearing. How would you as a male feel about wearing less? Say instead of a wetsuit, you must wear only board shorts? Or instead of only wearing board shorts you must wear tight trunks? Or if you are wearing tight trunks you must wear a Speedo?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:20 am

These women are not outsiders, they're born here. And this is a new thing, nothing "usual" about it. In fact in the country where their grandparents come from, burkinis are only known because these French women wear them when vacationing there.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
HGL
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 3:25 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:32 am

Meanwhile, women in France continue to defy the ban.

Oops. My mistake. Theses aren't Muslim women so presumably they won't be charged with offending modesty laws or displaying symbols of religiosity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-25/b ... st/7783464
Qui omnes despicit, omnibus displicit.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 13779
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:01 am

Nicolas Sarkozy, the previous president, and candidate to be the next one too, has proposed to ban all religious signs everywhere public, so I guess nuns will have to comply too.

Of course he's a moron, but a moron that could win.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19535
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:52 am

You know, I happened to go to Brighton beach yesterday. I saw several fully covered Muslim families happily enjoying the beach at the same time as lots of half naked people. Some even went for a fully clothed paddle at the water's edge.

I would ask those opposed to them to explain to me what difference it would have made if the women had been wearing burkinis instead of being fully clothed? I'm really struggling to see what the hell the fuss is about. :?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:28 am

scbriml wrote:
You know, I happened to go to Brighton beach yesterday. I saw several fully covered Muslim families happily enjoying the beach at the same time as lots of half naked people. Some even went for a fully clothed paddle at the water's edge.

I would ask those opposed to them to explain to me what difference it would have made if the women had been wearing burkinis instead of being fully clothed? I'm really struggling to see what the hell the fuss is about. :?


Everybody should wear what they want, not what "God" or their male family members tell them to. And that's not what is the de facto state of affairs in conservative Muslim communities. It's a matter of freedom.

For me personally the extreme amount of rape cases where Muslim men are involved has shown me how much respect men from conservative Muslim countries generally have towards women's rights, and rights of non-Muslims in particular. Perhaps in like 80% of news reports about rape or attempted rape the offender is described as "dark skinned person of Middle Eastern origin" who spoke English or poor Finnish.

Latest reported case of attempted rape from saturday, two offenders of Middle Eastern origin:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2016082 ... 0_uu.shtml

You people can talk about tolerance all you want, but the truth is that a significant portion of refugees see women as inferior beings to men, and hate homosexuals. The way feminists and large part of LBGT community are all for multiculturalism and Islamic migration is plain suicidal. I'm glad I'm neither homosexual or a female, because neither group will have it that good in future Europe.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:35 am

pvjin wrote:
Everybody should wear what they want, not what "God" or their male family members tell them to. And that's not what is the de facto state of affairs in conservative Muslim communities. It's a matter of freedom.
In that case I presume Westerners are also repressed, after all only Amazon-Indians an some African cultures live nude to my knowledge.

pvjin wrote:
You people can talk about tolerance all you want, but the truth is that a significant portion of refugees see women as inferior beings to men, and hate homosexuals. The way feminists and large part of LBGT community are all for multiculturalism and Islamic migration is plain suicidal. I'm glad I'm neither homosexual or a female, because neither group will have it that good in future Europe.
Don't you guys have laws in Finland to protect them? Even in Singapore where male homosexual intercourse in illegal it is a serious issue to harass gays. You should have a serious look at your legal system.
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:49 am

In that case I presume Westerners are also repressed, after all only Amazon-Indians an some African cultures live nude to my knowledge.


Yes, walking nude around the town should be legal.

Don't you guys have laws in Finland to protect them? Even in Singapore where male homosexual intercourse in illegal it is a serious issue to harass gays. You should have a serious look at your legal system.


We do have laws, but not everybody respects them, especially when they conflict with their religious beliefs. Also, ultimately laws depend from the people. If Europe ever has large enough Muslim population then laws will change to reflect that, and that's not good for women, gays or anybody non-Muslim.

But yes, there's one thing our legal system needs, and that's serious punishments like in Singapore. In Finland human life is very cheap and driving over the speed limit is more serious offense than smashing somebody's face. Often extremely vile cases of violence resulting in serious injuries or even death result in only a couple of years in jail, especially if the offender has no previous crime history. With this kind of legal system it's no wonder why some people from Middle East and Africa don't give a crap about our law, as Finnish jail offers vastly superior standards of living compared to where they're from.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19535
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:55 am

pvjin wrote:
Everybody should wear what they want, not what "God" or their male family members tell them to. And that's not what is the de facto state of affairs in conservative Muslim communities. It's a matter of freedom.


Agreed, and I've said that before. I have zero issue with Muslim women covering up if that's their free choice. However, I do agree that face covering veils should not be allowed in public.

But, that still doesn't explain why the burkini itself should be specifically banned when any woman (Muslim or not) can sit on a beach fully clothed? As a child, I have clear memories of trips to the beach where my mother sat fully clothed wearing a headscarf. What difference does it make?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:58 am

Image

I just realized the sheer irony of this picture: men forcing a woman to wear something that conforms to their beliefs, only this time it's non-Muslim men that's doing the forcing.

So much for allowing women the freedom to chose what they want to wear...

scbriml wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Everybody should wear what they want, not what "God" or their male family members tell them to. And that's not what is the de facto state of affairs in conservative Muslim communities. It's a matter of freedom.


Agreed, and I've said that before. I have zero issue with Muslim women covering up if that's their free choice. However, I do agree that face covering veils should not be allowed in public.


I too agree that face covering veils should be discouraged.The hijab is necessary, but a burqa or a niqab is not - this is strictly a cultural aspect of clothing limited to the Middle East, where the niqab logically serves a purpose, covering their faces in the event of a haboob/dust storm event.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:20 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I too agree that face covering veils should be discouraged.The hijab is necessary, but a burqa or a niqab is not - this is strictly a cultural aspect of clothing limited to the Middle East, where the niqab logically serves a purpose, covering their faces in the event of a haboob/dust storm event.


What make the hijab necessary in Europe? I've yet to see a dust storm in Norway and they don't keep the rain off.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Several French mayors ban the burkini from their towns' beaches

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:23 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Image

I just realized the sheer irony of this picture: men forcing a woman to wear something that conforms to their beliefs, only this time it's non-Muslim men that's doing the forcing.

So much for allowing women the freedom to chose what they want to wear...



Can you repost the image.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pellegrine, ThePointblank and 102 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos