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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:57 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
By large majority (57-32%), it turns out most Americans don't approve of recently benched quarterbacks injecting social justice politics into the national anthem and likening cops to pigs and killers. Huh - imagine that.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/09/0 ... k-protest/



Colin Kaepernick owns the most popular jersey in the NFL right now
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin ... right-now/


Colin Kaepernick jersey sales spiking since protest began
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/sports ... test-began

Minorities strongly support CK, white people, not so much. No surprises there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/col ... 2d4596a9b6
 
ual777
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:56 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
By large majority (57-32%), it turns out most Americans don't approve of recently benched quarterbacks injecting social justice politics into the national anthem and likening cops to pigs and killers. Huh - imagine that.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/09/0 ... k-protest/



Colin Kaepernick owns the most popular jersey in the NFL right now
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin ... right-now/


Colin Kaepernick jersey sales spiking since protest began
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/sports ... test-began

Minorities strongly support CK, white people, not so much. No surprises there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/col ... 2d4596a9b6


Come on, its a little over a week's worth of sales. Talk to me in 3 months.
 
mham001
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:22 am

ual777 wrote:
Come on, its a little over a week's worth of sales. Talk to me in 3 months.


There is potential great risk for the NFL if there are larger protests by players in tomorrow's opening week and 9/11. They risk fans turning away from the game much like the NBA nearly became irrelevant. Black players need white America if they want to keep their salaries high. This is why I learned early to never mix politics with business, you risk alienating large chunks of potential customers. This could be felt especially hard in SF, which is expected to be lucky to win a few games and has expensive stadium payments. I foresee lots of empty seats in Santa Clara this year.
 
coolian2
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:31 am

omfg.
 
mham001
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:56 am

coolian2 wrote:
omfg.


Because you, as a queen's subject, have special insight in the matter?
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:09 am

mham001 wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Come on, its a little over a week's worth of sales. Talk to me in 3 months.


There is potential great risk for the NFL if there are larger protests by players in tomorrow's opening week and 9/11. They risk fans turning away from the game much like the NBA nearly became irrelevant. Black players need white America if they want to keep their salaries high. This is why I learned early to never mix politics with business, you risk alienating large chunks of potential customers. This could be felt especially hard in SF, which is expected to be lucky to win a few games and has expensive stadium payments. I foresee lots of empty seats in Santa Clara this year.


It would be off-key or distasteful or whatever the correct descriptive is to protest anything on 9/11. Many people can not afford seats at a lot of stadiums. That would be more of a driving factor.
 
coolian2
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:19 am

mham001 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
omfg.


Because you, as a queen's subject, have special insight in the matter?

I've called you out before on using that idiotic line of argument.
 
mham001
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:30 am

coolian2 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
omfg.


Because you, as a queen's subject, have special insight in the matter?

I've called you out before on using that idiotic line of argument.


I don't care who you "called out'. Really, what would you know living 5,000 miles away, but often pretending to live here? A silly internet acronym is actually about the limit of your contribution to the subject.

What I said is a real factor, maybe you should read about the recent history of the NBA and its fan base.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:01 am

Jed York, owner of the 49ers has now also donated $1 million along with CK to minority / law enforcement charities. Mhm001, not bad for a weeks work eh?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jed ... 42712cf83b
 
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casinterest
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:45 am

I expect this issue will get more headlines going forward.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/40-year-man-ki ... d=42193626

Shot for a broken down car.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
I expect this issue will get more headlines going forward.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/40-year-man-ki ... d=42193626

Shot for a broken down car.

Image

mham001 wrote:
I don't care who you "called out'. Really, what would you know living 5,000 miles away, but often pretending to live here? A silly internet acronym is actually about the limit of your contribution to the subject.

Mommy's lil bigot doesn't like being questioned, called out, or pressed for evidence, especially from those damb furreiners who are not allowed to have opinions.
 
wingman
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:04 pm

Two things out of Oklahoma:

1. There are vicious murderers and/or racists all over police departments around this country

2. I continue to question just how many thousands of dead black "thugs" or "criminals" have been executed in this country prior to the advent of video.

Absolutely inexcusable. Four cops on one guy with his arms up and the best idea they can come up with is to shoot him point blank on national television. Someone ought to tell Trump how wonderful this racial profiling works for us. I hope whomever pulled that trigger does life in prison. Have fun.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:04 pm

wingman wrote:
Two things out of Oklahoma:

1. There are vicious murderers and/or racists all over police departments around this country

2. I continue to question just how many thousands of dead black "thugs" or "criminals" have been executed in this country prior to the advent of video.

Absolutely inexcusable. Four cops on one guy with his arms up and the best idea they can come up with is to shoot him point blank on national television. Someone ought to tell Trump how wonderful this racial profiling works for us. I hope whomever pulled that trigger does life in prison. Have fun.


You forgot the helicopter on-site as well. Somehow this pilot from 1,500+ ft. radioed, "he looks like he's on something" and "looks like a bad dude" Who knew helo pilots ran color commentary for the street officers?
 
ual777
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:33 pm

wingman wrote:
Two things out of Oklahoma:

1. There are vicious murderers and/or racists all over police departments around this country

2. I continue to question just how many thousands of dead black "thugs" or "criminals" have been executed in this country prior to the advent of video.

Absolutely inexcusable. Four cops on one guy with his arms up and the best idea they can come up with is to shoot him point blank on national television. Someone ought to tell Trump how wonderful this racial profiling works for us. I hope whomever pulled that trigger does life in prison. Have fun.


FWIW, the car was left running with the doors open, two people called 911 and one said he thought his car was going to blow up and that he was on something.

The first officer (female) called for backup when he wouldn't get down or respond to commands, then he moved to the car ignoring orders and reached inside. One of the officers arriving as backup (rightfully IMO) tazed him and the female officer fired one round which killed him. When she called "shots fired" over the radio she sounded hysterical.

Now, obviously poor trigger control and training, but it almost looks like she was so on edge that when the other officer fired the tazer, she pulled the trigger. Not sure if that calls for life in prison.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:22 pm

ual777 wrote:
Now, obviously poor trigger control and training, but it almost looks like she was so on edge that when the other officer fired the tazer, she pulled the trigger. Not sure if that calls for life in prison.

While I am not screaming condemnation at the officer since I wasn't there experiencing whatever happened, my one comment to rebut yours would be: But if her actions do not call for life in prison, how does the suspects actions call for lethal force and death?

One may not be intending to do or cause something but that does not mean the results of such should not be harsh.

Tugg
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:35 pm

ual777 wrote:
Not sure if that calls for life in prison.


True. Just 25 years is all.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:37 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Image


This apparently needs to be posted twice every page of these horrific abuses by cops, as the usual suspects start to offer apologetics. Gag.
 
ual777
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:49 pm

Tugger wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Now, obviously poor trigger control and training, but it almost looks like she was so on edge that when the other officer fired the tazer, she pulled the trigger. Not sure if that calls for life in prison.

While I am not screaming condemnation at the officer since I wasn't there experiencing whatever happened, my one comment to rebut yours would be: But if her actions do not call for life in prison, how does the suspects actions call for lethal force and death?

One may not be intending to do or cause something but that does not mean the results of such should not be harsh.

Tugg


Not going to happen.

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:06 pm

ual777 wrote:

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.



Links? Because if you ACTUALLY listened to the 2 calls, you might just end up dead if your car ever breaks down in the middle of the road. Oh, wait...you're white. Never mind. :roll:

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/terence-c ... sten-full/
 
wingman
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:50 pm

I'm going by what I see, over one minute of video with four white police officers surrounding an unarmed man with his hands in the air, who is then executed on the spot. The helicopter guys sums it all up perfectly but could've just said what was really on his mind..it's a n*****, go ahead and shoot him dead.

This woman cop is either a stone cold killer or a hysterical mess completely unqualified to be a police officer. If the latter maybe she gets manslaughter and is dismissed immediately from the force. But if they dig up any racist shit on her then it's supermax for life in my book. Or maybe she gets off scot free and we watch a few more cities burn. Know what's going to be interesting this Sunday? Watching half the league kneel or raise their fists during the national anthem. I don't blame 'em one bit.
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:44 am

ual777 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Now, obviously poor trigger control and training, but it almost looks like she was so on edge that when the other officer fired the tazer, she pulled the trigger. Not sure if that calls for life in prison.

While I am not screaming condemnation at the officer since I wasn't there experiencing whatever happened, my one comment to rebut yours would be: But if her actions do not call for life in prison, how does the suspects actions call for lethal force and death?

One may not be intending to do or cause something but that does not mean the results of such should not be harsh.

Tugg


Not going to happen.

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.


What is coming out now is the murdered man was waiting for assistance getting his car out of the road and the windows were closed. The officer claimed the murdered man had a weapon. The helicopter pilot said he "looks like a bad dude." Yeah, because he can assess the situation from the air.

Don't worry, though. The white officers will keep their jobs.
 
910A
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:57 am

Taken from The Hill today: Latest police shooting shows why athletes kneel

If you have wondered over the past few weeks why San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and other black professional and amateur athletes kneel when the national anthem plays, look no further than Tulsa, Oklahoma where this past weekend, Terence Crutcher, 40, became the latest unarmed and non-threatening black person to be shot and killed by police officers on camera.
What makes Crutcher's killing all the more disturbing is that he was not under suspicion for having committed a crime; rather, his car was broken down and the very officers who swear oaths and get paid to "protect and serve," which often includes rendering assistance drivers in distress, chose to treat him like a criminal and kill him instead.


http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/c ... etes-kneel
 
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Tugger
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:14 am

ual777 wrote:
Not going to happen.

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.

But why does a person DESERVE to be killed for that? I mean it. I get that people do not always follow officer instructions. I know I won't. Do I deserve to be killed for that? I get that people that are under the influence are even less likely to comply with an officers instructions. DO they actually deserve to die? Does ANYONE WHO DOES NOT OBEY AN OFFICERS DIRECTIONS DESERVE TO DIE? NEED TO BE KILLED? I do not think so. I do not find that disobeying an officer of the law requires that one be killed.

I also know these instances are few and far between, that only when death occurs do they get the play they get, but I still do not think anyone, officers included, can be exonerated at this point in the process, We just don't know enough, the investigation is not complete.

Tugg
 
ual777
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:17 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
ual777 wrote:

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.



Links? Because if you ACTUALLY listened to the 2 calls, you might just end up dead if your car ever breaks down in the middle of the road. Oh, wait...you're white. Never mind. :roll:

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/terence-c ... sten-full/


I listened to both fully and if you did you would hear the first caller repeatedly say "he's been smoking something" and the fact that the police found PCP in the car backs that up.

I also said that its poor training and he shouldn't have been shot. Not sure what you are driving at.

Finally, I don't appreciate your condescension. I'm discussing in a totally civil and respectful tone, and I would appreciate you doing the same.
 
ual777
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:21 am

Tugger wrote:
ual777 wrote:
Not going to happen.

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.

But why does a person DESERVE to be killed for that? I mean it. I get that people do not always follow officer instructions. I know I won't. Do I deserve to be killed for that? I get that people that are under the influence are even less likely to comply with an officers instructions. DO they actually deserve to die? Does ANYONE WHO DOES NOT OBEY AN OFFICERS DIRECTIONS DESERVE TO DIE? NEED TO BE KILLED? I do not think so. I do not find that disobeying an officer of the law requires that one be killed.

I also know these instances are few and far between, that only when death occurs do they get the play they get, but I still do not think anyone, officers included, can be exonerated at this point in the process, We just don't know enough, the investigation is not complete.

Tugg


Tugger, read the first line of my last paragraph. I agree the shooting is unjustified. My point is when dealing with the police there are actions that dramatically increase the odds of something going sideways. Does that make it ok or justified? No.

I've listened to all the audio I can get my hands on and it's apparent from the time she requests backup to the time she says "shots fired!" She goes from shrill to hysterical very quickly. She should be fired, but people here looking for a murder charge just aren't going to get it. Manslaughter I can see, but with murder you have to prove intent. When you introduce PCP, only one shot fired, and a failure to obey instructions, it makes it very difficult to secure a murder conviction. I agree we need to see more come out.
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:16 am

ual777 wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:
ual777 wrote:

Was it an overreaction? Yes. However, after listening to the 911 calls and the reports today, it now appears the guy was on PCP and abandoned his car in the middle of the road. That video shows a very small window of the event. The officer obviously called for backup, the victim didn't comply with commands to get down repeatedly, then went to his car and made a sudden move through the window.

You won't get a murder conviction off of that, and it's debatable she could get a manslaughter conviction and serve 5.

Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but it will be very difficult to persue charges against the officer based on what is coming out.



Links? Because if you ACTUALLY listened to the 2 calls, you might just end up dead if your car ever breaks down in the middle of the road. Oh, wait...you're white. Never mind. :roll:

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/terence-c ... sten-full/


I listened to both fully and if you did you would hear the first caller repeatedly say "he's been smoking something" and the fact that the police found PCP in the car backs that up.

I also said that its poor training and he shouldn't have been shot. Not sure what you are driving at.

Finally, I don't appreciate your condescension. I'm discussing in a totally civil and respectful tone, and I would appreciate you doing the same.


"He's been smoking something" does not justify murder. How do officers know that a man with a broken down SUV is the same man that had been smoking something? Maybe one officer was responding to a black guy walking "because he looks suspicious" and ended up killing this guy? Maybe the other black guy (who may or may not have been doing anything illegal) gets to walk down the street only to be gunned down by TPD later this week?
 
910A
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:31 am

Now we have this; http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/7492/
St. Louis cop caught on film planting a gun on a man he just killed

Newly released footage has shed a troubling new light on a 2011 police shooting in St. Louis, showing an officer gun down a black suspect and then planting a gun on the crime scene.

Officer Jason Stockley and his partner Brian Bianchi had engaged drug suspect Anthony Lamar Smith in a high speed chase. Stockley can be heard saying “I’m going to kill this motherfucker.”

The police rammed Smith off the road, and camera footage shows Stockley shooting five shots into the driver’s seat of Smith’s disabled car.

New footage now reveals Stockley taking a gun out of a duffel back from the back of his own cruiser and planting it on Smith’s body. Stockley claimed in his report that Smith had pointed the weapon at him, justifying the use of lethal force.

Subsequent DNA evidence on the gun, however, did not contain any DNA or fingerprints from Smith.

Stockley will be tried for first degree murder. One of his initial hearings takes place on Oct. 3rd.
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:02 am

So, one has to ask:

Father, son, unarmed, hands up, shot to death.

Where are the "All Lives Matter" crowd screaming for justice?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:05 am

ual777 wrote:
it makes it very difficult to secure a murder conviction. I agree we need to see more come out.

Please know I am not suggesting murder, nor thinking the officer should be charged with such. I am asking a larger question to many more than just you. Without a doubt errors occur, humans are only just that and when authorized and instructed in applying lethal force the results of errors can be catastrophic. My question is simply: Should it be acceptable that people die because of that? Why should we accept it to be OK?

I don't have the simple answer. But I feel very strongly that "not obeying" is, to me, unacceptable. I know I have and quite possibly would challenge an officer's directions if I felt it to be needed. And god forbid, if I were "not in my right mind" during an encounter with law enforcement, for whatever reason, and would not obey, I do not feel anyone should kill me if I did not present a direct threat, a "clear and present danger".

I do not know where to take this, it is intractable in many ways.

Tugg
 
coolian2
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:30 am

MaverickM11 wrote:

mham001 wrote:
I don't care who you "called out'. Really, what would you know living 5,000 miles away, but often pretending to live here? A silly internet acronym is actually about the limit of your contribution to the subject.

Mommy's lil bigot doesn't like being questioned, called out, or pressed for evidence, especially from those damb furreiners who are not allowed to have opinions.

He doesn't know I used to live in Memphis, I live in the worst area of Auckland, my girlfriend is Maori (deeply discriminated against) and also AMAZINGLY, I can use the internet.

It's crazy these days to say distance is relevant.

But he loves to run out the "you don't live here" line whenever I (and I hate to use a pun in a serious post) trump his responses.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:26 am

To me the problem is not just about unjustified use of lethal force, it is also the "justified" cases. Clearly in the US the idea is shoot first, ask questions later. Meanwhile in some countries the average cop isn't even armed.

And to compound the problem, cops are taught to shoot to kill.

This training, this attitude, creates a mental state in cops, they're expecting to have to kill somebody in such situations. They're not trying to avoid it.
 
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lugie
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Aesma wrote:
To me the problem is not just about unjustified use of lethal force, it is also the "justified" cases. Clearly in the US the idea is shoot first, ask questions later. Meanwhile in some countries the average cop isn't even armed.

And to compound the problem, cops are taught to shoot to kill.

This training, this attitude, creates a mental state in cops, they're expecting to have to kill somebody in such situations. They're not trying to avoid it.


Spot on.

In one of my neighboring towns the following made news last Saturday:
Police were called to respond to a domestic violence situation, once they arrived the suspect let off his spouse and dashed towards the officers with a broken-off beer bottle.
One of the officers stopped him by shooting his leg. Once. (Which is by the way why it made news.)

In this case, the cop was actually in acute danger and it was entirely justified for him to make use of his firearm, but apparently he could do so without playing judge and jury.
 
wingman
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
To me the problem is not just about unjustified use of lethal force, it is also the "justified" cases. Clearly in the US the idea is shoot first, ask questions later. Meanwhile in some countries the average cop isn't even armed.

And to compound the problem, cops are taught to shoot to kill.

This training, this attitude, creates a mental state in cops, they're expecting to have to kill somebody in such situations. They're not trying to avoid it.


This is all true but now seeing this case in Charlotte last night, if as the police describe, it's the opposite of Oklahoma. Man wields gun, refuses to drop his weapon, police shoot him dead. It's hard to argue against the outcome. And yet..and yet..one of these days a jury is going to find for a defendant when they claim self-defense in shooting a police officer. It sits at the core of the NRA's fundamental argument for gun rights, guns being the only defense against an oppressive government. It's hard to think of a sadder or more perfect symbol of government oppression that what happened in Oklahoma. Let that train of thought "unravel" a bit and suddenly you could see a smart lawyer and just the right jury successfully argue the case that the defendant, a black man pulled over for a broken tail light, justifiably shot a police officer dead firmly believing that he himself was about to be executed just for being black and because he's seen it on TV too many times. That day is coming. And at the root of it all is the presence of hundreds of millions of guns in this country. We're a society living in complete fear of murder and letting it eat away of any semblance of civilized life.
 
Hillis
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:56 pm

I find it funny that police departments all over the nation are criticizing the man for protesting the shooting of African-Americans by police under, shall we say, questionable circumstances. But they go silent when such an event takes place that calls into question one of their own members.

And there's no doubt why National police union endorsed Donald Trump: they'd like to see laws changed that gives them free reign to do whatever the hell they want, and without any thought of accountability.
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:31 am

Tugger wrote:
ual777 wrote:
it makes it very difficult to secure a murder conviction. I agree we need to see more come out.

Please know I am not suggesting murder, nor thinking the officer should be charged with such. I am asking a larger question to many more than just you. Without a doubt errors occur, humans are only just that and when authorized and instructed in applying lethal force the results of errors can be catastrophic. My question is simply: Should it be acceptable that people die because of that? Why should we accept it to be OK?

I don't have the simple answer. But I feel very strongly that "not obeying" is, to me, unacceptable. I know I have and quite possibly would challenge an officer's directions if I felt it to be needed. And god forbid, if I were "not in my right mind" during an encounter with law enforcement, for whatever reason, and would not obey, I do not feel anyone should kill me if I did not present a direct threat, a "clear and present danger".

I do not know where to take this, it is intractable in many ways.

Tugg


Not obeying is unacceptable. But, when a citizen has one mindset (car broken down, police are here to help) and police have a different mindset (this looks like a bad dude, approach with guns drawn) that is where we have a problem.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:23 pm

The only way things will change is when cops start gunning down white people. Given the statistics cops should be shooting white, redneck, males, aged 35+ on sight. http://fortune.com/2016/09/19/us-gun-ownership/

Just 3% (white, male, rednecks) own over 50% of the guns. Not black men....white dudes! Once white dudes start getting gunned down in the streets, shi& will hit the fan.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
Not obeying is unacceptable.

To me that mindset is unacceptable.

If I get pulled over in traffic I will drive until I find a spot I think is safe. Often that means immediately but not always, and my opinion may be different from what the officer thinks. If stopped by an officer I may not immediately give my name and identification if stopped, I may question an officer as to what is happening and may not "obey" right away until I determine what is occurring (if anyone is familiar with the Border Patrol stops in the middle of nowhere and within the US borders, I will respond with "am I being detained" for the simple fact that they have no reason or right to ask my citizenship).

If there is no choice (get shot or comply) then the choice is obvious. But again my fear would be if I am "not in my right mind" for whatever reason (I suffered a concussion or stroke, I had an unexpected reaction to a medication, whatever) and I was unable to comply (such as that mentally challenged man that was playing with a toy truck in the middle of the road). I don't believe that I should be shot in such an instance unless I am directly threatening lives and am an immediate danger to others.

Tugg
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:29 pm

Tugger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Not obeying is unacceptable.

To me that mindset is unacceptable.

If I get pulled over in traffic I will drive until I find a spot I think is safe. Often that means immediately but not always, and my opinion may be different from what the officer thinks. If stopped by an officer I may not immediately give my name and identification if stopped, I may question an officer as to what is happening and may not "obey" right away until I determine what is occurring (if anyone is familiar with the Border Patrol stops in the middle of nowhere and within the US borders, I will respond with "am I being detained" for the simple fact that they have no reason or right to ask my citizenship).

If there is no choice (get shot or comply) then the choice is obvious. But again my fear would be if I am "not in my right mind" for whatever reason (I suffered a concussion or stroke, I had an unexpected reaction to a medication, whatever) and I was unable to comply (such as that mentally challenged man that was playing with a toy truck in the middle of the road). I don't believe that I should be shot in such an instance unless I am directly threatening lives and am an immediate danger to others.

Tugg


As a white man, I know that I will not be shot to death by police if I don't put my hands up in time or get out of the car in time or pull my ID out in time or whatever. That is what is wrong. I know the rules when dealing with police. I tell them what I am doing and why I am making the moves I am making. Even knowing that I will not be shot to death.

The last time I had an encounter with police was in Washington state. I was speeding. I knew I was. WSP clocked the BMW in front of me going over the speed limit and pulled me over because we were going the same speed. Two white guys pulled over by a white officer in rural Washington. And I still kept in the back of my mind that I did not want to get shot by the officer.
 
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seb146
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:30 pm

I wonder what the NRA and ammosexuals have to say about Trump wanting to suspend the Second Amendment?

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9/ ... l=facebook
 
NoTime
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:01 pm

I don't care for the guy, or what he's doing... but he's free to do whatever he wants. I do, however, think there's some merit to the idea that some of his attention-seeking is related to his unhappiness with the 49ers, and his quick fall from the limelight over the last few years. He's basically got nothing to lose.

Poll: Niners QB Colin Kaepernick most disliked player in league

Colin Kaepernick is now the most disliked player in the NFL.

That's at least according to a recent poll of Americans by E-Poll Marketing Research, which asked 1,100 people whose demographics were representative of the general population.

The poll, taken last week, revealed that Kaepernick was "disliked a lot" by 29 percent of those polled, more than any of the more than 350 players asked about in the survey. Kaepernick finished ahead, in the dislike category, of Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Jameis Winston (22 percent), Miami Dolphins defensive end Ndamukong Suh (21 percent), New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady (13 percent) and Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (10 percent).
 
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fallap
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:06 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
cpd wrote:
I'll bet there are people who are extremely critical of his actions who don't stand with the Anthem is playing on a TV broadcast of a sporting event. They probably remain seated in their reclined armchair with the remote control in one hand and a beer can/bottle in the other.


That would be ridiculous to stand in the privacy of your own home. This is a custom at public events to show respect. Once again, we are a free nation. This rich athlete wants to make a statement, it is his right. I do not agree with him, but it is his right to protest and as Doc said, it is our right to disagree.


In Denmark we always stand in the privacy of our homes, when the Queen's New Year Speech is being broadcasted live.
 
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OA412
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:52 pm

mham001 wrote:
I get tired of the "black victim" charade from some quarters because I know your fate at the hands of police is directly related to your involvement in violent crime (and attitude).

This is hilarious. On multiple occasions, in multiple threads, you've told non-US members to back off and not insert themselves into the discussion because they do not live in the US and therefore should not have an opinion. Meanwhile, you're a White male whose decided that Black victim-hood is such a farce, it deserves scare quotes AND you know exactly why Black people are treated poorly by a large number of police departments. You do see the irony in the situation, right? I'm not alone here?
mham001 wrote:
Kapernick is out of line, never mix politics with business.

He has the right to do it.
 
Hillis
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:49 pm

mham001 wrote:
I get tired of the "black victim" charade from some quarters because I know your fate at the hands of police is directly related to your involvement in violent crime (and attitude). I also dislike the police lobby and our loss of rights through the war on drugs. But we see what happens when police are told to stand down or quite in droves, witness Chicago and San Jose. And there should be something said about the 80 cops killed in the line duty so far this year.
Kapernick is out of line, never mix politics with business.


Wow, where to start with this beauty?

Tired of "black victim", he? Too darn bad for you. The African-American population on these shores has, for the better part of 400 years, been enslaved, terrorized, humiliated, lynched, beaten, and intimidated by not only whites in general, but also by law enforcement. Before the Civil War, and, actually, for a time during the war, Northern law enforcement would return runaway slaves to their Southern masters; after the war, starting around 1880, law enforcement was a key element in virtually enslaving all over again thousands of African-Americans through bogus crime charges, and shipped to growing industries in the South, to be worked to death, literally. Law enforcement was another key in Jim Crow, to intimidate and terrorize African-Americans. Law enforcement tramped peaceful marchers going to Selma with horses and beat them will billy clubs, and in places like Birmingham, attacked them with dogs and water cannons.

It was only in 1985 that the African-American, at least on paper, was made equal. But white America, out of fear, or out of sheer ignorance and hatred, as tried to keep the black man "in his place" even since then. I was reading an article I think on cnn.com, and in it one African-American woman, who had made many white friends over years working with them, was suddenly ostracized when Obama was elected. One of her white co-workers was even quoted by her as saying "Just because Obama got elected, doesn't mean you're in charge". We've seen an explosion in white hate groups since Obama took office.

Think any of this is coincidence? I don't. It's tied to white fear that they are losing their vice-like grip on the U.S. that has gone unchallenged for 4 centuries. And they know that grip will never come back.

What gets me, is the "white victim" crap that's being bandied about by a lot of whites, saying THEY are the victims, when in fact, the playing field is simply, slowly but surely, being leveled and they are losing that built-in advantage of being white. And it scares them. As a white man, it doesn't scare me, but it scares many whites.

And your part about mixing business and politics is quite a delicious irony, considering Donald Trump is doing just that in this campaign, paying off business debts with campaign funds, and trying to grease the skids with Vlad Putin to gin up more business for himself if he wins the election. I don't think you even fathom the hypocrisy of such a statement.
 
wstakl
Posts: 242
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:31 am

Last week Penn State University HONORED Joe Paterno, a guy who knowingly harbored serial child RAPIST Jerry Sandusky......yet Americans decide to get more outraged with people not standing for a national anthem. What a f#$ked up society.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:02 am

OA412 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I get tired of the "black victim" charade from some quarters because I know your fate at the hands of police is directly related to your involvement in violent crime (and attitude).

This is hilarious. On multiple occasions, in multiple threads, you've told non-US members to back off and not insert themselves into the discussion because they do not live in the US and therefore should not have an opinion. Meanwhile, you're a White male whose decided that Black victim-hood is such a farce, it deserves scare quotes AND you know exactly why Black people are treated poorly by a large number of police departments. You do see the irony in the situation, right? I'm not alone here?
mham001 wrote:
Kapernick is out of line, never mix politics with business.

He has the right to do it.

Liked without comment.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:10 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Mommy's lil bigot doesn't like being questioned, called out, or pressed for evidence, especially from those damb furreiners who are not allowed to have opinions.


I noticed that you like to go to name calling when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:14 am

OA412 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I get tired of the "black victim" charade from some quarters because I know your fate at the hands of police is directly related to your involvement in violent crime (and attitude).

This is hilarious. On multiple occasions, in multiple threads, you've told non-US members to back off and not insert themselves into the discussion because they do not live in the US and therefore should not have an opinion. Meanwhile, you're a White male whose decided that Black victim-hood is such a farce, it deserves scare quotes AND you know exactly why Black people are treated poorly by a large number of police departments. You do see the irony in the situation, right? I'm not alone here?


umm, I spent a childhood growing up in black neighborhoods in the US. I can also read FBI statistics. What do you have?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
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Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:48 am

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Mommy's lil bigot doesn't like being questioned, called out, or pressed for evidence, especially from those damb furreiners who are not allowed to have opinions.


I noticed that you like to go to name calling when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.

LOL silly bigot asking for a "simple answer, no deflections"--you first sweetie! Like anyone cares what you think since you've already decided gays are rapists with no proof, foreigners are not allowed to have opinions, and you're tired of blacks getting uppity. Unless you have a lick of proof backing up any of the garbage coming out your pie hole, everyone could care less what you've done with your sad life.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:54 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Mommy's lil bigot doesn't like being questioned, called out, or pressed for evidence, especially from those damb furreiners who are not allowed to have opinions.


I noticed that you like to go to name calling when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.

LOL silly bigot--like anyone cares what you think since you've already decided gays are rapists with no proof, foreigners are not allowed to have opinions, and you're tired of blacks getting uppity. Unless you have a lick of proof backing up any of the garbage coming out your pie hole, everyone could care less what you've done with your sad life.


I noticed that you like to go to name calling when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Colin Kaepernick Sitting For US National Anthem

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:55 am

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
mham001 wrote:

I noticed that you like to go to name calling when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.

LOL silly bigot--like anyone cares what you think since you've already decided gays are rapists with no proof, foreigners are not allowed to have opinions, and you're tired of blacks getting uppity. Unless you have a lick of proof backing up any of the garbage coming out your pie hole, everyone could care less what you've done with your sad life.


I noticed that you like to go to name calling (and distort quotes) when you have no argument. Tough guy with a keyboard.

Tell us all, what have you done in your life to overcome racism in America?

Simple answer please, no deflections. Then I'll tell you mine and we'll see who talks the talk and who walks the walk.

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