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Mir
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:49 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:

I am no fan of Trump's campaign but there are important distinctions between his rhetoric and Clinton's. You can decide they are both terrible, but they are not equivocal statements.

Trump has offended people because he speaks in generalities and embellishments - sort of like a New Yorker - that are inappropriate in polite company. We have real problems with crime caused by illegal immigrants, but polite people don't cast everyone into the same lot. His vague nature means that two people can hear the same sentence and draw the conclusion they want to hear. It's no surprise that Trump's detractors take every statement at it's literal extreme and conclude that he is the worst human being to ever seek the Presidency. But at a fundamental level, Trump is speaking to real problems like immigration, terrorism, or crime.

Now contrast that with Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment. What Hillary Clinton finds "deplorable" is that voters would support her opponent. The existence of Trump supporters is "the problem." In polite company, we view personal attacks at a political opponent as undignified. Amazingly, Clinton went a step further and launched personal attacks at an opponent's supporters. Don't forget the indignation at Mitt Romney for his "47%" comment in the 2012 campaign. Romney laid out a reasonably logical case for why many voters would not connect with his message but then drew righteous scorn for concluding it "wasn't [his] job to worry about those people." Well, these "deplorable people" will be Clinton's constituents if she wins the Presidency.


You didn't read her full comments, did you?

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people—now [have] 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks—they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America. But the other basket—and I know this because I see friends from all over America here—I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas—as well as, you know, New York and California—but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

Emphasis is mine. That's not her saying that it's deplorable to support Trump. That's her saying that there people with deplorable views (racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, anti-semitism, etc.) and that they have embraced Trump and he has brought them into the mainstream. The second half of the comment is all about the people who support Trump because they're concerned about the economy and their future, and how those are people who need to be understood and empathized with. That's something Romney couldn't even manage to say with his "it's not my job to worry about those people" line.

It was not a politically good move to say what she said - that I will grant you. But all she really said was that the alt-right, and that Trump has elevated them toward political legitimacy, is deplorable. I would hope that everyone on this board would agree with that, because they are horrible people.
 
Ken777
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:49 pm

I have no doubts that the GOP will continue to "rig" the vote by their favorite methods: blocking access to the voting booth. Look for very long lines in people of color precincts. challenges for individuals of color and playing of games where there is no paper trail of the voting machines.

Those games are one of the prime reasons why I am against the Electoral College. It allows for very small areas of important states to be gamed resulting in distorted results. A simple vote count at the national level makes it far harder for the system to be gamed.
 
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:05 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
seb146 wrote:
777Jet wrote:

If Trump said what Hillary said the other day y'all lefties would be saying he is unfit to be president. When Hillary says it y'all just laugh it off. LOL. And then y'all ignore discussing what Hillary just recently said and go back to something Trump said weeks ago. No wonder so many on the right don't bother in these threads anymore and leave y'all hypocrites alone to make each other feel important. Given that Trump is slowly closing in on Hillary he must be doing something right, or perhaps all her wrongdoings and the fact that she believes she is above the law and everybody else (Hillary standard) is finally catching up with her. Buckle up!


He says worse stuff than that on a daily basis. Hillary says one thing one time and the right freaks out. Double standard? Hypocrisy? Short term memory loss? Trump derangement syndrome? Take your pick what to name it. Hillary is doing exactly what Trump is doing. And, now, the right hates that kind of campaign. hmmmmmm......


I am no fan of Trump's campaign but there are important distinctions between his rhetoric and Clinton's. You can decide they are both terrible, but they are not equivocal statements.

Trump has offended people because he speaks in generalities and embellishments - sort of like a New Yorker - that are inappropriate in polite company. We have real problems with crime caused by illegal immigrants, but polite people don't cast everyone into the same lot. His vague nature means that two people can hear the same sentence and draw the conclusion they want to hear. It's no surprise that Trump's detractors take every statement at it's literal extreme and conclude that he is the worst human being to ever seek the Presidency. But at a fundamental level, Trump is speaking to real problems like immigration, terrorism, or crime.

Now contrast that with Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment. What Hillary Clinton finds "deplorable" is that voters would support her opponent. The existence of Trump supporters is "the problem." In polite company, we view personal attacks at a political opponent as undignified. Amazingly, Clinton went a step further and launched personal attacks at an opponent's supporters. Don't forget the indignation at Mitt Romney for his "47%" comment in the 2012 campaign. Romney laid out a reasonably logical case for why many voters would not connect with his message but then drew righteous scorn for concluding it "wasn't [his] job to worry about those people." Well, these "deplorable people" will be Clinton's constituents if she wins the Presidency.


Are you being serious right now? Trump saying "Mexico is sending all their rapists and drug dealers" is no casting a wide net? Trump being endorsed by the KKK and Neo Nazis is not casting a wide net? Him saying "make America great again" and his surrogates saying "there will be taco trucks on every corner if Hillary is elected" is not casting a wide net? Really?

She makes one "wide net statement" and the right melts down and whines and cries like little babies. You all don't like being bullied? Tough. That is your nominee. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
 
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:11 am

777Jet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
777Jet wrote:

One thing? One time? Hmmmm... Are you a Gold Fish?

Hillary supporters should be the last to use the term memory loss on Trump supporters given her memory loss when questioned about her training re handling classified emails. Unless you consider her "I can't recall" answers lies... Lies? Memory loss? Which one is it. Either way it's not good. At least Trump didn't order his staff to destroy his phones with a hammer to hide evidence. LOL. What a role model! Then again, the spineless clown we've had for the last 7.5 years is evidence that the POTUS no longer needs to be role model material...


He only bribed attorneys general of two states and thinks Putin is the best leader in the world.

But, yeah, let's not talk about the advice Republican Colin Powell gave to Hillary about the emails

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/08/493133413 ... -new-email


Putin is more of a leader than Obama could dream of being. Obama has wet dreams of the type of approval rating numbers Putin has in Russia. Putin governs for Russians. Obama governs for special interests and everybody else before Americans, including the Saudis.

Some president Hillary would be if she just does what anybody tells her to do, but that's not her fault, that's the messengers fault lol.

Good night you two :)


When was the last time Obama had detractors assassinated or invaded another country because he wanted to? When was the last time Obama jailed reporters for speaking badly about him? Obama is not the greatest leader ever period, but he is miles ahead of Putin. As much as the right wants to show Obama as a dictator, he never has been. The right keeps screaming Obama is taking guns away, which never happened. The right screams Obama is forcing everyone into Sharia, which never happened. The right screams Obama is attacking churches, which never happened. See a pattern? Obama has not been allowed to do anything. He is not even allowed to nominate a Supreme Court justice. Many court seats are sitting vacant because the right refuses to hear nominees.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:27 am

seb146 wrote:
He is not even allowed to nominate a Supreme Court justice. Many court seats are sitting vacant because the right refuses to hear nominees.


Last I looked there are 91 judicial vacancies open with 50 +/- appointees sitting and doing nothing, with 1 additional judicial nominee for SCOTUS, thus too, sitting doing nothing.

If Hillary Clinton wins I hope to god she has a full slate of 92 appointees ready to jam thru the Senate on Day 1 / Hour 1 of her Presidency.
 
rfields5421
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:43 am

seb146 wrote:
He is not even allowed to nominate a Supreme Court justice.


President Obama has nominated someone to fill the vacancy on the Supreme Court - Judge Merrick Garland. This was his third Supreme Court nomination - Justice Sotomayor and Justice Kagan were his firs two.(Danged - Garland is one month and 11 days younger than I am, I'm getting OLD).

The Republican senators on the Senate Judiciary Committee have refused to hold hearings on Garland's appointment.

Probably because most Republicans see him as a 'good' liberal - he was confirmed to his current seat by a vote of 72-23. The Republicans who voted against his appointment all stated that he was a wonderfully qualified nominee, but that they felt the DC circuit court did not need 11 judges.

As a result of refusing to even consider Garland - the conservatives have lost three or four very important cases - and despite what a lot of them believe - the 4-4 decisions such as the one striking down the North Carolina Voter ID/ Voter Access Restrictions - those decisions will NOT be reviewed again by the court if a President Trump puts an arch conservative on the court.
 
Ken777
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:21 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:

If Hillary Clinton wins I hope to god she has a full slate of 92 appointees ready to jam thru the Senate on Day 1 / Hour 1 of her Presidency.
.

I believe that both Clinton and Trump have transition teams already working on potential appointments, from Cabinet to Judicial. Besides the primary appointments there are the second and third pier appointments and, IIRC, the total is over 1,000 appointments that will need to be made.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:25 am

scbriml wrote:
I think someone missed his meds.


Not just somebody, but almost all of the left stopped taking their meds years ago. That you are just starting to work that out is no surprise ;) Please resume taking your meds and keep up your valuable contributions.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:28 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
seb146 wrote:
777Jet wrote:

If Trump said what Hillary said the other day y'all lefties would be saying he is unfit to be president. When Hillary says it y'all just laugh it off. LOL. And then y'all ignore discussing what Hillary just recently said and go back to something Trump said weeks ago. No wonder so many on the right don't bother in these threads anymore and leave y'all hypocrites alone to make each other feel important. Given that Trump is slowly closing in on Hillary he must be doing something right, or perhaps all her wrongdoings and the fact that she believes she is above the law and everybody else (Hillary standard) is finally catching up with her. Buckle up!


He says worse stuff than that on a daily basis. Hillary says one thing one time and the right freaks out. Double standard? Hypocrisy? Short term memory loss? Trump derangement syndrome? Take your pick what to name it. Hillary is doing exactly what Trump is doing. And, now, the right hates that kind of campaign. hmmmmmm......


I am no fan of Trump's campaign but there are important distinctions between his rhetoric and Clinton's. You can decide they are both terrible, but they are not equivocal statements.

Trump has offended people because he speaks in generalities and embellishments - sort of like a New Yorker - that are inappropriate in polite company. We have real problems with crime caused by illegal immigrants, but polite people don't cast everyone into the same lot. His vague nature means that two people can hear the same sentence and draw the conclusion they want to hear. It's no surprise that Trump's detractors take every statement at it's literal extreme and conclude that he is the worst human being to ever seek the Presidency. But at a fundamental level, Trump is speaking to real problems like immigration, terrorism, or crime.

Now contrast that with Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment. What Hillary Clinton finds "deplorable" is that voters would support her opponent. The existence of Trump supporters is "the problem." In polite company, we view personal attacks at a political opponent as undignified. Amazingly, Clinton went a step further and launched personal attacks at an opponent's supporters. Don't forget the indignation at Mitt Romney for his "47%" comment in the 2012 campaign. Romney laid out a reasonably logical case for why many voters would not connect with his message but then drew righteous scorn for concluding it "wasn't [his] job to worry about those people." Well, these "deplorable people" will be Clinton's constituents if she wins the Presidency.


More evidence of the left's double standards. How bad a person Romney was with his 47% comment but Hillary and her 'half' comment is okay. Oh the irony...
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:30 am

Ken777 wrote:
I have no doubts that the GOP will continue to "rig" the vote by their favorite methods: blocking access to the voting booth.


Conspiracy theories? ;)
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:37 am

seb146 wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
seb146 wrote:

He says worse stuff than that on a daily basis. Hillary says one thing one time and the right freaks out. Double standard? Hypocrisy? Short term memory loss? Trump derangement syndrome? Take your pick what to name it. Hillary is doing exactly what Trump is doing. And, now, the right hates that kind of campaign. hmmmmmm......


I am no fan of Trump's campaign but there are important distinctions between his rhetoric and Clinton's. You can decide they are both terrible, but they are not equivocal statements.

Trump has offended people because he speaks in generalities and embellishments - sort of like a New Yorker - that are inappropriate in polite company. We have real problems with crime caused by illegal immigrants, but polite people don't cast everyone into the same lot. His vague nature means that two people can hear the same sentence and draw the conclusion they want to hear. It's no surprise that Trump's detractors take every statement at it's literal extreme and conclude that he is the worst human being to ever seek the Presidency. But at a fundamental level, Trump is speaking to real problems like immigration, terrorism, or crime.

Now contrast that with Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment. What Hillary Clinton finds "deplorable" is that voters would support her opponent. The existence of Trump supporters is "the problem." In polite company, we view personal attacks at a political opponent as undignified. Amazingly, Clinton went a step further and launched personal attacks at an opponent's supporters. Don't forget the indignation at Mitt Romney for his "47%" comment in the 2012 campaign. Romney laid out a reasonably logical case for why many voters would not connect with his message but then drew righteous scorn for concluding it "wasn't [his] job to worry about those people." Well, these "deplorable people" will be Clinton's constituents if she wins the Presidency.


Are you being serious right now? Trump saying "Mexico is sending all their rapists and drug dealers" is no casting a wide net? Trump being endorsed by the KKK and Neo Nazis is not casting a wide net? Him saying "make America great again" and his surrogates saying "there will be taco trucks on every corner if Hillary is elected" is not casting a wide net? Really?

She makes one "wide net statement" and the right melts down and whines and cries like little babies. You all don't like being bullied? Tough. That is your nominee. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.


You are the babies that dish it out and can't take it. Always have been. Always will be.

Again, the left melted down after Romney's similar statement. Double standards. It's okay for Hillary though...

Make America Great Again... Are you talking about Bill Clinton's line? But yeah, that was being said by a leftie so that makes it okay. More double standards.

As for Putin v Obama. Putin is a person with backbone who does what's best for his nations people. Obama is weak does what's best for everybody else but his nations people. That is the difference.
 
coolian2
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:57 am

Oh god, another Putin fanboy.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:04 am

coolian2 wrote:
Oh god, another Putin fanboy.


I personally think we should ship people like that off to Russia or North Korea for 2 years. Let's see how enthusiastic they are after 2 years of living with such "strong" leaders. :roll:
 
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WarRI1
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:18 am

I think we have long passed any thresholds of election etiquette. Trump started the insults throwing them helter skelter. I happen to believe Hillary is correct about many of Trumps supporters. What planet are you folks on? Just look at the past eight years of non-stop hatred for our first black President. Look who led the birther crusade. :o :shock: :?
Last edited by WarRI1 on Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Hillis
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:19 am

777Jet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:

I am no fan of Trump's campaign but there are important distinctions between his rhetoric and Clinton's. You can decide they are both terrible, but they are not equivocal statements.

Trump has offended people because he speaks in generalities and embellishments - sort of like a New Yorker - that are inappropriate in polite company. We have real problems with crime caused by illegal immigrants, but polite people don't cast everyone into the same lot. His vague nature means that two people can hear the same sentence and draw the conclusion they want to hear. It's no surprise that Trump's detractors take every statement at it's literal extreme and conclude that he is the worst human being to ever seek the Presidency. But at a fundamental level, Trump is speaking to real problems like immigration, terrorism, or crime.

Now contrast that with Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment. What Hillary Clinton finds "deplorable" is that voters would support her opponent. The existence of Trump supporters is "the problem." In polite company, we view personal attacks at a political opponent as undignified. Amazingly, Clinton went a step further and launched personal attacks at an opponent's supporters. Don't forget the indignation at Mitt Romney for his "47%" comment in the 2012 campaign. Romney laid out a reasonably logical case for why many voters would not connect with his message but then drew righteous scorn for concluding it "wasn't [his] job to worry about those people." Well, these "deplorable people" will be Clinton's constituents if she wins the Presidency.


Are you being serious right now? Trump saying "Mexico is sending all their rapists and drug dealers" is no casting a wide net? Trump being endorsed by the KKK and Neo Nazis is not casting a wide net? Him saying "make America great again" and his surrogates saying "there will be taco trucks on every corner if Hillary is elected" is not casting a wide net? Really?

She makes one "wide net statement" and the right melts down and whines and cries like little babies. You all don't like being bullied? Tough. That is your nominee. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.


You are the babies that dish it out and can't take it. Always have been. Always will be.

Again, the left melted down after Romney's similar statement. Double standards. It's okay for Hillary though...

Make America Great Again... Are you talking about Bill Clinton's line? But yeah, that was being said by a leftie so that makes it okay. More double standards.

As for Putin v Obama. Putin is a person with backbone who does what's best for his nations people. Obama is weak does what's best for everybody else but his nations people. That is the difference.


"Strength" isn't threatening other; it isn't browbeating others; it isn't trying to make people fearful or scared, as megalomainiacs like Trump and Putin do. That actually belies a weakness of character and the ability to deal rationally with a situtaion. You're confusing "strength" with "bluster". The United States tried that with the Bush Doctrine, and how did that adventure turn out? ISIS, anyone?

Strength is always being ready, but to also deal with the world in a rational manner, and to try and ease, not increase tension in the world. The dialogues opened in the last few years with Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba and Iran by the Obama Administration isn't being "weak"; it's dealing with reality, and dealing in a way that tries to make the world a little safer.

The kind of "strengh" you talk about has Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini written all over it.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:49 am

Hillis wrote:
ISIS, anyone?


Sorry, but President Obama's lack of vision and any cohesive strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria are what created ISIS. He owns that.
 
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:36 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Hillis wrote:
ISIS, anyone?


Sorry, but President Obama's lack of vision and any cohesive strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria are what created ISIS. He owns that.


Well, no. The whole Iraq debacle did not start January 29, 2008. It started March 19, 2003. Actually, before that when Cheney, Inc. decided they were the real enemy and not Osama bin Laden. But, when Saddam was toppled, that left a power vacuum in Iraq and ISIS saw their chance. Just because Obama saw that the American military was broke and broken does not make him weak. If Cheney, Inc. had properly funded his war for oil, Obama probably could have cleaned up his mess. But, ISIS took over, thanks to Cheney, Inc.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:43 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
Oh god, another Putin fanboy.


I personally think we should ship people like that off to Russia or North Korea for 2 years. Let's see how enthusiastic they are after 2 years of living with such "strong" leaders. :roll:


Both places were far too cold for me, but as an aviation enthusiast it was quite fund trying out those rare old soviet birds. Many of the problems in both places are a direct result of sanctions placed on them by the West (for standing up for themselves)- lead by the Bully the USA who thinks it can tell every other nation what they can and can't do. 9/11 and terror attacks against the West in general shows just how perfect the West and its strong leaders are.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:45 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Just look at the past eight years of non-stop hatred for our first black President.


Correction; First half black president.

Definitely the first female president.
 
coolian2
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:49 am

Oooh, doubling down on your credibility with an insult that isn't even intelligent in the playground?
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:50 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Trump started the insults throwing them helter skelter.


But "He started it"...

Sounds like a girl from my class back in kindergarten...
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:51 am

coolian2 wrote:
Oooh, doubling down on your credibility with an insult that isn't even intelligent in the playground?


Oooh, tough words from a Hillary fangirl ;)

Oh wait, you are talking about your 'signature' - I agree! :D
 
MaverickM11
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:33 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Hillis wrote:
ISIS, anyone?


Sorry, but President Obama's lack of vision and any cohesive strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria are what created ISIS. He owns that.

Keep repeating it often enough and it'll be true right? That's the right's mantra now--just make shit up, toss in a lil Jesus, and double down when you're proven wrong. There is no evidence Obama had anything to do with ISIS' creation and you know it, and it's an embarrassment that the right plays it so fast and loose with actual verifiable history but what do you expect when True Christian® Trump is your pied piper.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:58 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Keep repeating it often enough and it'll be true right?


You tell us.

The left adopted that technique a very long time ago.

Is it working for y'all?

MaverickM11 wrote:
That's the right's mantra now--just make shit up, toss in a lil Jesus, and double down when you're proven wrong.


This. This is the left's mantra now. Accuse the right of making up stuff when the left can't handle the truth. The heat is obviously catching up with Hillary.
 
Mir
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:07 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Hillis wrote:
ISIS, anyone?


Sorry, but President Obama's lack of vision and any cohesive strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria are what created ISIS. He owns that.


No, ISIS got started when the Bush Administration had the bright idea to immediately disband the Iraqi army post-invasion, sending lots of people with military training out into the wilderness with nothing to do. Surprise, surprise: they formed another army.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:03 am

777Jet wrote:
This. This is the left's mantra now. Accuse the right of making up stuff when the left can't handle the truth. The heat is obviously catching up with Hillary.

You mean accusing the right of what they're doing? Horrors! Alrighty smarty pants, if Obama created ISIS, PROVE IT. Or GTFO. $1 says you can't do either.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:29 am

Mir wrote:
No, ISIS got started when the Bush Administration had the bright idea to immediately disband the Iraqi army post-invasion, sending lots of people with military training out into the wilderness with nothing to do. Surprise, surprise: they formed another army.


Try again. It was, in part, the power vacuum left by President Obama's premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, serving as advisers to the Iraqi military, that permitted ISIS to overrun the Iraqi military. But more importantly, it was his failure to have a cohesive policy in Syria while arming their rebels that caused them to grow there.

Read this, you might learn something:

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article6354222.ece

Fair use excerpt: Mr. Obama’s Syria strategy took a page out of Reagan’s Afghan playbook. Not surprisingly, his strategy backfired. It took just two years for Syria to descend into a Somalia-style failed state under the weight of the international jihad against Mr. Assad. This helped the Islamic State not only to rise but also to use its control over northeastern Syria to stage a surprise blitzkrieg deep into Iraq this summer.....As part of his strategic calculus to oust Mr. Assad, Mr. Obama failed to capitalise on the Arab Spring, which was then in full bloom. By seeking to topple a secular autocracy in Syria while simultaneously working to shield jihad-bankrolling monarchies from the Arab Spring, he ended up strengthening Islamist forces

ISIS is President Obama's equivalent of Reagan's Afghan mujahideen, and they're solely his chickens which have come home to roost.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:57 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
777Jet wrote:
This. This is the left's mantra now. Accuse the right of making up stuff when the left can't handle the truth. The heat is obviously catching up with Hillary.

You mean accusing the right of what they're doing? Horrors! Alrighty smarty pants, if Obama created ISIS, PROVE IT. Or GTFO. $1 says you can't do either.


Ask the poster who made that claim to prove it, which he just did, again, in the previous post.

If you don't agree with it then prove otherwise. You can't.

Why don't you GTFO if you can't take the fact that folks on the other side of the political spectrum agree with each other.

Clinton may have said that half of Trump supporters are deplorable, but a heck of a lot more than half of Clinton supporters are deplorable.
 
bmacleod
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:19 pm

Funny at 9:15am Monday still no mention of Hillary's health scare yesterday...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-pneumonia.html?_r=0

Could it impact her campaign?

Then again Reagan at 73 faced questions about his health in 1984 and won re-election in a landslide.

For the record - Hillary is at least 1 year younger than Trump.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:24 pm

Funny how Trump has been bashed for saying wouldn't it be great if the US and Russia could work together to smash ISIS, and now... a deal has been done between guess who? The US and Russia. Why? To work together to smash ISIS. Oh the irony. Are lefties going to call Obama a Putin 'fanboy' now? Of course not lol.

bmacleod wrote:
Funny at 9:15am Monday still no mention of Hillary's health scare yesterday...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/us/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-pneumonia.html?_r=0

Could it impact her campaign?

Then again Reagan at 73 faced questions about his health in 1984 and won re-election in a landslide.

For the record - Hillary is at least 1 year younger than Trump.


The younger one is not necessarily the healthier one.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:41 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Sorry, but President Obama's lack of vision and any cohesive strategy with regard to Iraq and Syria are what created ISIS. He owns that.


I think that's fair...but if so, then we can say Reagan's CIA and failed Afghan project own the genesis of Al Qaeda, and Cheney got in the CIA's way and owns the failure at Tora Bora:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ame-214239
 
Mir
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:38 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Mir wrote:
No, ISIS got started when the Bush Administration had the bright idea to immediately disband the Iraqi army post-invasion, sending lots of people with military training out into the wilderness with nothing to do. Surprise, surprise: they formed another army.


Try again. It was, in part, the power vacuum left by President Obama's premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, serving as advisers to the Iraqi military, that permitted ISIS to overrun the Iraqi military. But more importantly, it was his failure to have a cohesive policy in Syria while arming their rebels that caused them to grow there.


I have a hard time taking that article as gospel when it claims that ISIS emerged from the Syrian Civil War when it was operating in Iraq well before that.

I would encourage you to read this: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world ... se-of-isil

"Although a majority of ISIL’s foot soldiers has been recruited from around the world, reports and personal accounts suggest its leaders are predominantly Iraqis, many of whom were affected by the 2003 dissolution of the Iraqi Armed Forces.

“ISIL, as an organization, would not exist without former Baathists,” says Iraq analyst Sajad Jiyad, a senior researcher at the al-Bayan Center for Studies & Planning in Baghdad.

He estimates more than 25 of ISIL’s most prominent 40 leaders in the last two years were previously Baathists.

Brig. Gen. Hassan Dulaimi, a former intelligence officer who lost his job after the 2003 dissolution, made a similar claim in an interview with the Washington Post this year.

“The people in charge of military operations in (ISIL) were the best officers in the former Iraqi army, and that is why (ISIL) beats us in intelligence and on the battlefield,” he said."


If you want to blame Obama for setting and then ignoring red lines in Syria, that's perfectly fair - that's 100% on him. But how exactly the group got as strong as it did is more complicated, and has its roots back in the Bush Iraq days. It's true that Obama's approach to Syria has not been incredibly effective. But it's hard to see how things could have gone better without far more US military involvement in Syria, which the vast majority of the country (including Republicans) didn't want.
 
rfields5421
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:50 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Funny at 9:15am Monday still no mention of Hillary's health scare yesterday...


It was all over the news yesterday, even got mentioned during breaks in the NFL football games.

The New York Times had an article on their website before 3 pm yesterday.
 
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scbriml
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:16 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Funny at 9:15am Monday still no mention of Hillary's health scare yesterday...


It was reported on the BBC's news site yesterday and made their 10pm TV news program. If it made headlines in the UK, I'd be very surprised if it didn't in the US.
 
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Tugger
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Funny at 9:15am Monday still no mention of Hillary's health scare yesterday...


It was reported on the BBC's news site yesterday and made their 10pm TV news program. If it made headlines in the UK, I'd be very surprised if it didn't in the US.

As far as I can tell it is the lead or one of the leads stories on all the major newsites.

Tugg
 
rfields5421
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:45 pm

As far as impact - it is quite common for someone in a Presidential campaign to come down with some type of medical problem. Pneumonia might be the most severe that I've heard of recently.

It certainly adds some small bit of credibility to Donald's claims about her heath.

It doesn't help that Hillary LOOKS 70 years old, and Donald looks younger. Of course Donald has more money for spray-on tans, hairpieces, etc. I did a quick survey yesterday at lunch - when ask "How old to you thing Donald Trump is?" almost everyone said he was in his late 50's or early 60s. Not scientific, but to me it seems most of the people I meet think Hillary is MANY years older than Donald.

Donald has stood up very well to the physical demands of campaigning and doesn't really look run down, Hillary does at times.

I don't think either candidate has major health issues, but both are at a very susceptible age. It makes me feel better about the future knowing that both VP candidates are at least a dozen years younger.
 
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Aesma
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:09 pm

It's difficult to guess Trump's age as he doesn't look human.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:16 pm

777Jet wrote:
Ask the poster who made that claim to prove it, which he just did, again, in the previous post.

So I was right a) you couldn't prove it and b) you can't think for yourself. Shock!

EA CO AS wrote:

Read this, you might learn something:

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article6354222.ece


Wow...how long did it take you to find this gem...an opinion piece in the Hindu? Which in any case references ISIL existing in Iraq prior to Syria? Betcha can't guess how the Iraq version was born!

Mir wrote:
“ISIL, as an organization, would not exist without former Baathists,” says Iraq analyst Sajad Jiyad, a senior researcher at the al-Bayan Center for Studies & Planning in Baghdad.

He estimates more than 25 of ISIL’s most prominent 40 leaders in the last two years were previously Baathists.

Brig. Gen. Hassan Dulaimi, a former intelligence officer who lost his job after the 2003 dissolution, made a similar claim in an interview with the Washington Post this year.

“The people in charge of military operations in (ISIL) were the best officers in the former Iraqi army, and that is why (ISIL) beats us in intelligence and on the battlefield,” he said."[/i]

Yup.
 
wingman
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:31 pm

Republicans are already forgetting the second war in Iraq, it's consequences and, sadder still, its lessons. The scary thing about people like ECOAS and Fox News is that in forgetting the lessons of Iraq they demand a repeat of the same mistakes in Syria, all the while in the very midst of marking the tragedy that lead to Iraq War II and which as we all discovered later on had zero connection to one another.

It's like taking a Vitamix and blending equal parts Stupid, Ignorant, and Forgetful..pouring it into a large glass, quaffing it down till you choke and using the spit up to write your foreign policy platform. All Trump had to do was add orange skin spray and voila!
 
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pvjin
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:20 pm

Aesma wrote:
It's difficult to guess Trump's age as he doesn't look human.


To me he looks much more like a human than Hillary. Maybe it's her underlying psychopathy or whatever that gives her such a look.
 
LMP737
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:30 pm

777Jet wrote:



Putin is more of a leader than Obama could dream of being. Obama has wet dreams of the type of approval rating numbers Putin has in Russia. Putin governs for Russians. Obama governs for special interests and everybody else before Americans, including the Saudis.



When I hear people say I can't help but laugh. If Obama did the some of things in this country as Putin has done in his people like you would be screaming at the top of your lungs on how Obama was a tyrant.
 
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scbriml
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 pm

pvjin wrote:
To me he looks much more like a human than Hillary.


Maybe you're blinded by the sun shining out of Putin's ass?
 
coolian2
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:27 pm

777Jet wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
Oooh, doubling down on your credibility with an insult that isn't even intelligent in the playground?


Oooh, tough words from a Hillary fangirl ;)

Oh wait, you are talking about your 'signature' - I agree! :D


I'm a Hillary fan? Holy shit I'd vote Romney before her, mate.

Also, no, my signature is not high quality discourse, it was aimed at someone who claimed that was what they were going for but signed off every post with a pointless attack. Not like it matters to me, since I'm 5000 miles away and clearly have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
 
LMP737
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:02 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

Try again. It was, in part, the power vacuum left by President Obama's premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, serving as advisers to the Iraqi military, that permitted ISIS to overrun the Iraqi military. But more importantly, it was his failure to have a cohesive policy in Syria while arming their rebels that caused them to grow there.

.


ISIS exists because we were there in the first place, end of story. Before you make the claim about the "premature" withdraw of US troops in Iraq ask yourself this. Would you have been willing to go over there yourself or perhaps send a family member?
 
LMP737
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:04 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

Try again. It was, in part, the power vacuum left by President Obama's premature withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, serving as advisers to the Iraqi military, that permitted ISIS to overrun the Iraqi military. But more importantly, it was his failure to have a cohesive policy in Syria while arming their rebels that caused them to grow there.

.


ISIS exists because we were there in the first place, end of story. Before you make the claim about the "premature" withdraw of US troops in Iraq ask yourself this. Would you have been willing to go over there yourself or perhaps send a family member?
 
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:09 am

EA CO AS wrote:
ISIS is President Obama's equivalent of Reagan's Afghan mujahideen, and they're solely his chickens which have come home to roost.


Obama was sticking to the timetable for withdraw agreed upon by the Bush Administration. And ISIS is nothing like the Mujaheddin under Reagan. Reagan actually supplied fighters in Afghanistan who were opposed to the occupation of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union. ISIS was not even close to the same thing. Could it be that Obama and his military advisers saws Syria as unwinnable, much like Iraq and Somalia, and just decided to save all those lives and all that money? That the military could not be stretched any more?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:35 am

seb146 wrote:
ISIS is nothing like the Mujaheddin under Reagan. Reagan actually supplied fighters in Afghanistan who were opposed to the occupation of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union.


Actually, they're almost EXACTLY the same. Rebellious freedom fighters get armed by United States. United States only follows through part of the way. The now well-armed freedom fighters view United States as evil, pivot to fundamental Islamism, and wage war against the West.

Obama not only didn't learn from Bush's mistakes, he went on to make the same mistake twice over; a non-secular Middle Eastern despot, when overthrown, leaves a vacuum for secular Middle Eastern fundamentalist groups to rise up and create chaos. Bush found that out once Hussein was out of power, and Obama followed suit in Libya, Syria, and even Egypt to some extent.
 
rfields5421
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:55 am

pvjin wrote:
To me he looks much more like a human than Hillary. Maybe it's her underlying psychopathy or whatever that gives her such a look.


Hillary looks like a normal near 70 year old woman.

Nature is very unkind to women as they age. By 70 most definitely show that they are old. Men don't get to looking really, really old until they are near 80.

Now, I've got a better perspective than most on this forum - because I'm in my mid-60s, and as RV full-timers, the wife and I spend most of our time around folks our age or a decade or two older. (I actually like being the youngest person in the room. Doesn't happen to me anywhere else.)

It surprises me that senior citizens can almost always get Hillary's age correct without thinking, but seldom come with 10 years of Donald's age. Most of the time when I talk about ages - they are shocked that Donald is older than Hillary by a year, and that Donald is OLDER than Ronald Reagan was when he went to the White House.
Last edited by rfields5421 on Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ltbewr
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:08 am

The worst related issue to HRC's health problems yesterday and other possible ones, is the lack of transparency as to her actual health condition. Yes, her health, Trump's and everyone's is their business, but the delay in disclosing of having Pneumonia hurts further with her already troubled persona.
 
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777Jet
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Re: U.S. Election Two Months Out: Looking At The Electoral College

Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:30 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
777Jet wrote:
Ask the poster who made that claim to prove it, which he just did, again, in the previous post.

So I was right a) you couldn't prove it and b) you can't think for yourself. Shock!


Congratulations, you must feel so special and important.

I guess you just admitted that all you lefties that just 'agree' with each other in these threads "can't think for yourself"? LOL.

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