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Tugger
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:56 pm

zckls04 wrote:
The headphone jack is qualitatively different- it's an enduring and brilliant piece of technology that shows no signs of becoming obsolete. Wireless headphones have been around for 20 years, but just haven't caught on to any great degree. Apple are replacing the jack with two worse options- wireless headphones which need to be separately powered or a dongle which is like a less convenient version of the headphone jack. Woohoo.

Interestingly the jack could actually be replaced by any number of new designs. All that is needed it a proper set of contacts for the audio signal. Quite frankly a connector similar to the Lightning or USB C or whatever would work just as well. It's the addition of something else in between, the requirement that a dongle adapter or converting to wireless signal is mandatory, that makes the Apple solution less ideal.

Tugg
 
RussianJet
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:05 pm

Up to two hours extra battery life? That's inexcusably paltry. Getting rid of the jack is a total no for me too. I'll pass.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:06 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I'm really irritated at the loss of the 1/8" headphone jack. Apple has jumped the shark on removing technology before that they saw as going obsolete without stopping to think of the cycle times on these things. There will be a new iPhone model every year. This could wait a while. They did this when they pulled the floppy and then CD drive from their laptops. Yes, we no longer use CD/DVD as removable media in computers, but it took several years for this to go away.

At my gym, there is an audio system where you plug your phone in using a 1/8" cable. The system has no bluetooth. So the solution is going to have to be to carry my lightning dongle to the gym. Problem is that it's really small and easy to lose so I'd bet I'm going to go through several of them (and I'm sure Apple will charge $20+ for each one...because they can).

And STILL no wireless contact charging.


Simply don't buy an iPhone 7. That is the only real way of expressing your displeasure.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:31 pm

Klaus wrote:
lugie wrote:
From a technical standpoint the 1/8" jack was a nuisance in the process of personal electronic devices getting thinner each year


Thickness is not the issue. It's a deep tunnel that has to be drilled into the device and all other components need to be placed around it, notably the battery (or in the iPhone's case the Taptic Engine which now sits at exactly that place).


So the tradeoff was to lose the headphone jack just so the phone will vibrate a bit when you touch it? ( ref: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/a ... Touch.html )

Seems to me to be a poor tradeoff of something that is quite useful for something that is a gimmick.

It also seems to me to show they really are running out of useful things to add to smartphones.

zckls04 wrote:
The headphone jack is qualitatively different- it's an enduring and brilliant piece of technology that shows no signs of becoming obsolete.


I understand the usefulness of the headphone jack, but wouldn't ever say it was a brilliant piece of technology. The bulk of the space it takes up is for either air (the hole at the center of the jack) or the physical hardware.

The main thing people appreciate is that you can drive unpowered headphones from it (and of course it supports audio-in as well as some control functions too). A second-order appreciation is that it is a DRM (digital rights management) free device, which is a side-effect that it's an unpowered interface.

Apple could have chosen to address the actual problems with the interface (takes up too much space) and leave the same level of functionality (unpowered audio input/output and control) by simply doing a better implementation of a new unpowered interface, but instead chose to force everyone to use their proprietary Lightening interface, which is a big part of why people are pissed. It's overly complicated for the desired functionality, it's proprietary, and using it for the audio function prevents it from being used for the charging function at the same time.

The end result is Apple subtracted a useful interface from the device and now expects the users to overload use of the remaining interface, and they don't like it.
 
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zckls04
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
I understand the usefulness of the headphone jack, but wouldn't ever say it was a brilliant piece of technology.


OK, maybe I'm exaggerating (although I'd argue any technological design which has survived for 100+ years is brilliant by definition), but I can't think of a more durable, easy to use connection in use on any smartphone. Yes, it takes a bit of extra space, but it's not wasted space- it's intimately connected to its durability and simplicity.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:39 pm

zckls04 wrote:
Apple are replacing the jack with two worse options- wireless headphones which need to be separately powered or a dongle which is like a less convenient version of the headphone jack. Woohoo.


And removing the ability to listen via wired headphones whilst charging the phone. Doh!
 
Flighty
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:05 pm

Well the lightning connector only lasts a certain number of plug/unplug cycles. Then the unit is a piece of trash.

A minijack lasts for decades. Apple Jacks don't. They will phase out lightning in 5-6 years anyhow. Leaving these units... as useless as the early iPhone accessories are now.
 
wingman
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:10 pm

I might wait till the 8 myself but still find it hilarious that everyone does the usual "crap all over Apple" following each new phone. Apple is stupid, the phones suck, they're a rip off, Android and Samsung are so much smarter etc etc." Thing is though, then the sales figures hit and the response is how sheep-like and stupid Apple buyers are. It's just one company guys, the Android ecosystem has literally hundreds of players to make cool new stuff. Bottom line, guys like Jobs only come along once a generation if we're lucky. The expectation that Apple is going to invent a new industry and/or destroy an old one every September is ludicrous.

One item I was pretty impressed by was the fact that last year's 6 was still the fastest phone on the market last week and now the 7 is here with even faster performance. And I'm not an MIT-trained doctor of coding so I appreciate shit working like a charm the instant it gets plugged in. Different strokes I guess.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:18 pm

wingman wrote:
I might wait till the 8 myself but still find it hilarious that everyone does the usual "crap all over Apple" following each new phone. Apple is stupid, the phones suck, they're a rip off, Android and Samsung are so much smarter etc etc." Thing is though, then the sales figures hit and the response is how sheep-like and stupid Apple buyers are. It's just one company guys, the Android ecosystem has literally hundreds of players to make cool new stuff. Bottom line, guys like Jobs only come along once a generation if we're lucky. The expectation that Apple is going to invent a new industry and/or destroy an old one every September is ludicrous.

One item I was pretty impressed by was the fact that last year's 6 was still the fastest phone on the market last week and now the 7 is here with even faster performance. And I'm not an MIT-trained doctor of coding so I appreciate shit working like a charm the instant it gets plugged in. Different strokes I guess.


Thanks for your post. I think there is a lot of merit in what Apple has done in the past (going back to its founding) up to today, but I also think it's fair game to criticize the changes in the current product.

Overall, I love Apple's hardware (have run iPods and MacBooks in the past) and love their approach to privacy (you can't give away keys that you don't have) but in general dislike their software (tends to be less configurable) and business policies (price gouging on options/upgrades). However I fully understand why others love Apple. I personally just haven't gotten over the threshold needed to get on-board with it.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:26 am

scbriml wrote:
zckls04 wrote:
Apple are replacing the jack with two worse options- wireless headphones which need to be separately powered or a dongle which is like a less convenient version of the headphone jack. Woohoo.


And removing the ability to listen via wired headphones whilst charging the phone. Doh!


There's a dongle for that - http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/08/bel ... -iphone-7/
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:23 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:


I normally don't read web site comments, but the ones on that page are spot on.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:38 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

And removing the ability to listen via wired headphones whilst charging the phone. Doh!


There's a dongle for that - http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/08/bel ... -iphone-7/[/quote]

I will say this. I highly expected Apple to have their own dongle for this. However with the Airpods, I can understand that they are pushing their bluetooth alternative.

The drawback is that for those still tied to analog, it creates an extra step to charge and be on a call at the same time. ( something I tend to do often).
The most frustrating part for me is to see that Apple is pushing "Wireless" Technology for the headphones, but doesn't push the "wireless" charging for this release.
(there's a case for that). Not sure what I will do. I may stick with my 5 for another cycle.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:52 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Oh look.... and it's only $40.00....

Seriously? :roll:

Tugg
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:24 am

casinterest wrote:
The most frustrating part for me is to see that Apple is pushing "Wireless" Technology for the headphones, but doesn't push the "wireless" charging for this release.
(there's a case for that).


Maybe they haven't found a solution to integrate wireless charging in a way that doesn't compromise the iPhone's aesthetics? While they might have incorporated it onto the Apple Watch, maybe the way they integrate it don't work on an iPhone.

Tugger wrote:
Oh look.... and it's only $40.00....

Seriously? :roll:

Tugg


$40 isn't a reasonable price? As I'm not American, I don't know how you guys gauge value in your own market. To me at least, having used Belkin products before, I feel that it's worth the money spent.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:39 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Oh look.... and it's only $40.00....

Seriously? :roll:

Tugg


$40 isn't a reasonable price? As I'm not American, I don't know how you guys gauge value in your own market. To me at least, having used Belkin products before, I feel that it's worth the money spent.

In my opinion it is highly "unreasonable". It's over 6% of the cost of a new iPhone and 4 times the cost of the earbuds I like. For something that is or would be otherwise totally unnecessary it is very expensive.

Again, in my opinion.

Tugg
 
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scbriml
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:38 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:


So now I need two dongles to be able to use my preferred headphones and charge my phone at the same time? EPIC fail. :roll:

Two dongles to lose and more cost - way to go! Apple will not be getting any more money from me when I replace my phone.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:41 pm

scbriml wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:


So now I need two dongles to be able to use my preferred headphones and charge my phone at the same time? EPIC fail. :roll:

Two dongles to lose and more cost - way to go! Apple will not be getting any more money from me when I replace my phone.


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... headphones gives us:

Image

Add to that the cable for your charger, and it's going to be a real mess, especially when compared to my current setup where the phone stands in a dock to charge and has a headphone jack in the top running to my audio setup. Hopefully Belkin or someone else will make a dock that allows both charging and audio i/o at the same time.

One of the comments in the article refers to the comment Steve Jobs made about tablets: "If you see a stylus, they messed up!". The person changed it to "If you see a dongle, they messed up!".

Ironically some are reminding us of the Jobs comment in the context of the Apple Pencil: http://gizmodo.com/apple-pencil-the-sty ... 1729605755

Bottom line: All of these are solvable issues, but annoying enough to make one really wonder why they should spend the $$$$ to get to the 7. There's really no compelling reason to upgrade, from what I can see. Of course millions will do so just to get bragger's rights...
 
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mad99
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:35 pm

I typically charge my phone when i'm not using it, night time or car so not an issue for me. If i want to listen and charge i'd use the BT
 
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Tugger
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:57 pm

Revelation wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/iphone-7-listen-music-charge-adapter-headphones gives us:

Image

So simple, so beautiful, so elegant!

Not.

Tugg
 
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Revelation
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:02 pm

mad99 wrote:
I typically charge my phone when i'm not using it, night time or car so not an issue for me. If i want to listen and charge i'd use the BT


Typically my phone sits in a dock 8 hours a day at work, playing music and charging at the same time.

I have some BT headphones but to be honest they're less comfortable than my old analog wireless headphones, and its battery doesn't make it through an 8 hour shift, so I only use BT when I have to do some work in the lab with my phone in my pocket.
 
wingman
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:04 pm

I read some more thorough pieces on the wireless earphones this morning and the general theme from many leading suppliers in this space is "yeah, the world's been going wireless for a while so not much of a surprise". Some cool points I hadn't thought of myself, again being nothing less than tech simpleton, I can now walk around the house on con calls and listen to music while the phone stays put and no more snagging the cord on my own dongle or kitchen counter. I also had one of my apple geek friends explain that the earphone carrier itself is the charger and when it itself is fully charged it can fully charge the earphones up to three times disconnected from a power source. I don't know if this is all accurate but I have a feeling that by next summer people will be frolicking on the beach wondering why it took so long to take the leap.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:


So now I need two dongles to be able to use my preferred headphones and charge my phone at the same time? EPIC fail. :roll:

Two dongles to lose and more cost - way to go! Apple will not be getting any more money from me when I replace my phone.


Apple has shot itself in the foot by this move and it looks like they have not thought things through... In the end consumers have to buy a $700 to $1000 phone, plus all the new accessories (dongles adapters, possible new headphone). Which is just beyond stupid, because there was no real reason to get rid of the headphone jack except Apple calls it courage, I call it arrogance! Would apple have implemented wireless charging at the same time, then it makes more sense...

And again I don't mind a step forward regarding the analog headphone jack to a digital connection, but it also looks like Apple has not thoughts things through here. Guess what will happen if the android based phone manufacturers will also start abandoning the headphone jack for a digital connection... The competition will NOT choose the proprietary lightning connector, instead they will ALL choose USB Type C (and some are doing it already). Even Apple is using USB Type C in their macbook...

Last I checked, the global smartphone sales was 80-90% in favor of Android based phones. Which means headphone (and other A/V) manufacturers have to prioritize USB Type C for their headphone jack replacement. Which either means, you will end up also buying a lightning to USB Type C adapter or maybe some will stop buying iphone's, because Apple has decided to develop against the market.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:20 pm

wingman wrote:
I read some more thorough pieces on the wireless earphones this morning and the general theme from many leading suppliers in this space is "yeah, the world's been going wireless for a while so not much of a surprise". Some cool points I hadn't thought of myself, again being nothing less than tech simpleton, I can now walk around the house on con calls and listen to music while the phone stays put and no more snagging the cord on my own dongle or kitchen counter. I also had one of my apple geek friends explain that the earphone carrier itself is the charger and when it itself is fully charged it can fully charge the earphones up to three times disconnected from a power source. I don't know if this is all accurate but I have a feeling that by next summer people will be frolicking on the beach wondering why it took so long to take the leap.


That's all nice and the advantages of the wireless headphones/earbuds, but Apple could have released the new Airpods anyway without getting rid of the headphone jack. Its not the one or the other.

Samsung has chosen in my opinion the sensible approach, by keeping the headphone jack, implementing USB Type C (which supports digital audio) and offer wireless earbuds, the Samsung Gear IconX (that include a charging case plus in-ear fitness tracker). This then gives the consumer all the options and flexibility to use what he/she wants...
 
wingman
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:05 pm

kasimir wrote:
Last I checked, the global smartphone sales was 80-90% in favor of Android based phones. Which means headphone (and other A/V) manufacturers have to prioritize USB Type C for their headphone jack replacement. Which either means, you will end up also buying a lightning to USB Type C adapter or maybe some will stop buying iphone's, because Apple has decided to develop against the market.


Apple is like Porsche, they're not aiming for total share and I doubt they care. They're in their little world catering to their little customer base and sometimes following the market (like Porsche adding AWD) and sometimes going against the market (like making an insane SUV that even their die hard loyalists thought was idiotic). Just like Android, there are dozens of GMs, Fords, Toyotas etc that Porsche can never hope to catch and it just doesn't matter. You have aspirational products that mean something emotionally to buyers, and you have products that in all other respects make a whole lot more sense. A Prius can get me work every day and never break down. But money no object I'll take a 911 any day of the week. And of course you have Corvettes and R8s and AMG etc, but the 911 is the one ever-lasting icon worth every penny to those buying it.

And I might add that we should still all be thanking Apple for deciding "to develop against the market". If they hadn't done so with the first iPhone I doubt this thread would even exist. I don't recall Samsung or Nokia or Blackberry thinking things through to this wonderful new world.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:55 pm

wingman wrote:
Apple is like Porsche, they're not aiming for total share and I doubt they care. They're in their little world catering to their little customer base and sometimes following the market (like Porsche adding AWD) and sometimes going against the market (like making an insane SUV that even their die hard loyalists thought was idiotic). Just like Android, there are dozens of GMs, Fords, Toyotas etc that Porsche can never hope to catch and it just doesn't matter. You have aspirational products that mean something emotionally to buyers, and you have products that in all other respects make a whole lot more sense. A Prius can get me work every day and never break down. But money no object I'll take a 911 any day of the week. And of course you have Corvettes and R8s and AMG etc, but the 911 is the one ever-lasting icon worth every penny to those buying it.

And I might add that we should still all be thanking Apple for deciding "to develop against the market". If they hadn't done so with the first iPhone I doubt this thread would even exist. I don't recall Samsung or Nokia or Blackberry thinking things through to this wonderful new world.

Don't forget that Porsche is part of the Volkswagen group and they share the technology with each other, which makes everything much more efficient and economically feasible. For example, the whole full-size SUV line up within the Volkswagen Group (Volkswagen Touareg, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne and Bentley Bentayga) are more or less the same with some distinct technological changes here and there, but different interior and exterior styling.

In general I have to say that you cannot compare those industries with each other for one simple reason and that is that apple and google are creating ecosystems and for an ecosystem to be successful there needs to be atleast a critical mass for example to attract developers to create great apps and manufacturers to build accessories otherwise you will lose customers. There are two prime examples of failed ecosystems, the windows mobile and blackberry ecosystem, while windows mobile as mobile operating system was quite promising it failed to attract customers because there were nearly no apps/games available on their platform. Blackberry realized this and has even switched to android.

So coming back to the audio connector, apple needs atleast a critical mass to be using lightning enable audio devices (like the iphone 7), so that the manufacturers are interested to built lightning headphones and other audio devices with lightning ports (like for example an IFE system) for this to make sense. But since we will now end up in a digital audio connector battle between lightning and USB Type C devices, it is very likely that only one of these will survive to become the world-wide industry standard for digital audio connection... I don't see both surviving and I can see an industry battle like BluRay vs HD-DVD or VHS vs Betamax.
I believe that Apple will have a hard time coming out as winner from this battle, since I don't see any other smartphone manufacturer implementing lightning and therefor paying royalties to apple. Even worst, apple is implementing USB Type C (and not lightning) into their Mac line-up, which is making this argument even harder for apple.
 
saket
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:20 pm

Could an average consumer tell the difference between the sound from a headphone jack vs lightening ? Maybe with the Apple marketing placebo they would.
 
bhill
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:42 pm

Not that I am a RF expert, but how immune is BT to RFI? I think this is a bad idea, some folks have spent some serious coin on good head sets/pieces...This is almost like Canon going from FD to EF lenses and flipping the bird at folks that had lostsa money in spendy glass...
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:35 pm

I am going to have to buy the 7. If I leave Apple, then I sacrifice everything I've ever purchased in iTunes because there is no iTunes for Android. Really annoying.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:08 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I am going to have to buy the 7. If I leave Apple, then I sacrifice everything I've ever purchased in iTunes because there is no iTunes for Android. Really annoying.


There's plenty of software that will convert your Itunes library to normal MP3 files!

One thing I'm missing in this whole wireless headphone saga, is the announced battery life of the earbuds. I read on one site that it's supposed to be around 5 hours (which I think is ridiculous) but apart from that nobody seems to be mentioning it. If you're on a long flight or trip, 5 hours really isn't a whole lot! So while you do away with one cord, you still have to bring the case to charge them. I'm no longer an apple user so I don't care about this move, but at the same time I don't think its a particularly good idea..

Martijn
 
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scbriml
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:50 pm

DocLightning wrote:
I am going to have to buy the 7. If I leave Apple, then I sacrifice everything I've ever purchased in iTunes because there is no iTunes for Android. Really annoying.


This, and the fact work didn't allow us to load music on our company-provided iPhones, were two deciding factors in me investing in an iPod. Now, even though no longer tied to a company-provided phone, I can switch to an Android phone with zero impact on my music. Yes, it's two devices, but it gives me a degree of phone independence and the battery life of the iPod is way better than the iPhone.
 
DDR
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:17 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
What a bust iPhones have been lately. All the "enhancements" are either way late or actually takeaways.


I have to agree.

Yay, it's thinner! You could have kept it the same thickness and incorporated a bigger battery, making it last longer.

Yay, it's waterproof! Not entirely, and besides, I'd rather have my headphone jack since I use that every day.

Yay, the headphone jack is gone! So is a better audio experience, my ability to charge it while I use it, and my ability to plug it into my car's integrated jack. Oh, and my ability to use wired headphones as my "I don't want to be disturbed," signal to those seated around me on planes.

Sorry, but right now I don't see anything compelling enough about this new offering to make me give up my trusty iPhone 6 Plus.


I'm with you. I'm keeping my 6 Plus. Just not enough new great features to justify the cost of a new iPhone. But there are people who always have to have the newest gadget so I'm sure Apple will rake in the money.
 
Klaus
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:22 pm

kasimir wrote:
Apple has shot itself in the foot by this move and it looks like they have not thought things through... In the end consumers have to buy a $700 to $1000 phone, plus all the new accessories (dongles adapters, possible new headphone).


Nope. The adapter for conventional wired phones is already included in the box, as is a pair of (simple) Lightning earbuds. Existing Bluetooth headphones and other gear also will just continue to work as before.

In actual practice, the only real issue is for people who actually use wired headphones while charging the device. And for that there already exist Lightning charging docks with an audio jack built in, for instance. (I personally use and prefer conventional wired headphones, but I've never had to charge the iPhone at the same time as using them.)

For by far the most people this will be a complete non-issue or at most a marginal one. Only for a minority there will really be a need to look for additional purchases to cover their more niche requirements.

And again I don't mind a step forward regarding the analog headphone jack to a digital connection, but it also looks like Apple has not thoughts things through here.


Now look at the history of computing technology through the past decades and consider how plausible that last claim sounds in context. 8-)

Guess what will happen if the android based phone manufacturers will also start abandoning the headphone jack for a digital connection... The competition will NOT choose the proprietary lightning connector, instead they will ALL choose USB Type C (and some are doing it already). Even Apple is using USB Type C in their macbook...


USB-C unfortunately is much more fragile than Lightning. You couldn't build a proper dock with it, for instance. But of course some manufacturers may try that route, but I would expect that most will just stick with the analog jack plus Bluetooth.

DocLightning wrote:
I am going to have to buy the 7. If I leave Apple, then I sacrifice everything I've ever purchased in iTunes because there is no iTunes for Android. Really annoying.


Music would be no problem. All modern devices should by now be able to play AAC files and the iTunes Store has been delivering DRM-free AAC since 2009 already. And if you should actually still have some even older DRM files from the iTunes Store, you can upgrade these to double the data rate and have the DRM removed for a fee.

Software, of course, is tied to the platform. Movies downloaded via iTunes are also unfortunately with DRM to this day, primarily on behalf of the movie studios.

But as I've said above, I doubt it would really be that big of a deal in real life. There are docks with analog jacks and apart from that most things just continue to work as usual with the iPhone 7.

I personally have no need to upgrade now. My two-year old iPhone 6 can expect at least three more years of upgrades and updates and I see no need to replace it anytime soon. And when that becomes an issue, I expect the current hysteria to have died down to less than half a shrug.
 
Mir
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:28 am

CrimsonNL wrote:
One thing I'm missing in this whole wireless headphone saga, is the announced battery life of the earbuds. I read on one site that it's supposed to be around 5 hours (which I think is ridiculous) but apart from that nobody seems to be mentioning it. If you're on a long flight or trip, 5 hours really isn't a whole lot! So while you do away with one cord, you still have to bring the case to charge them. I'm no longer an apple user so I don't care about this move, but at the same time I don't think its a particularly good idea..


Even if you're just out an about during the day, 5 hours is nothing. I don't want to have to carry around a charger with me in case I listen to a lot of music that day and run the batteries down. It's just one more thing to lose (though I'm sure Apple will gladly sell me an overpriced replacement), and one more inconvenience.

And as far as long flights go, I'd have to carry around two sets of headphones: one for using with my phone, and one for using with the IFE if I decided I wanted to watch that. Yeah, that's certainly simplifying my life. Thanks, Apple. :evil:
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15887
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:45 am

Klaus wrote:
In actual practice, the only real issue is for people who actually use wired headphones while charging the device. And for that there already exist Lightning charging docks with an audio jack built in, for instance.


In other words, Apple never shuts a door without giving you the option to PAY to open a window.... :roll:
 
YZF101
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:01 am

Yes, the losing of the 3/8 jack is not a good way forward.

I see the adaptors being way too bulky wire wise, and that is going to put a lot of strain on the lightning connector. These are kind of flimsy at best, are they not? So adding yet another adaptor on top of this one is asking for troubles.

There are simply too many people that have purchased decent headphones, or more than decent, and will not have the option of directly plugging their expensive 'phones into the new iphone. As it is, with talk of slimming down other units and going to mini usb, adaptors will be needed to use your nice headphones further down the road. Not a pleasant thought.

Apple isn't one to never leave their old customers in the dust, though. They still do not, nor will they ever, make a female lightning to 30 pin male adaptor to accomodate those who still use older ipods etc. to fit into new docking stations etc. And I'm still 'mad' that they discontinued the ipod classic - 160 gb of storage is great. They could have made them with that new lightning plug. So they don't have a lot of support from those of us who keep their electronics going rather than tossing it in the trash.

Music is a pretty important part of lots of our lives, and so we've gone and purchased the best headphones we could afford....and to have a major supplier of portable devices go in this direction, maybe it is time to start looking at other means of music storage and playback, rather than a phone. The days of an all-in-one unit, from this company anyway, seem to be comting to an end. Getting pretty tired of the Apple mentality, actually.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:50 pm

Well I think the removal of the headphone jack is fine. It's old technology and I'd bet that people were whining too, when the floppy drive was phased out. But my problem is that apple insists on its own lightning connector instead of the universal USB C standard, which is bad for the environment because the manufacturers once again can't agree on a common standard thanks to Apple.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:19 pm

Klaus, you must agree though that this entire "new model" thing is nothing but a cost reduction exercise. I seriously see nothing new here. Right? Is there anything they have done on the iPhone 7 to make an exceptional leader in the technology space? A product that exceeds what others are producing? I don't see any superlatives.

If not then it is strictly cost reduction, they just made it cheaper to produce (which with declining market share, and sales makes sense).

Tugg
 
Mir
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:28 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Well I think the removal of the headphone jack is fine. It's old technology and I'd bet that people were whining too, when the floppy drive was phased out.


When the floppy drive was phased out there were dramatically better alternatives available and in common use. When they eliminated optical drives from their laptops, there was a tangible benefit there (lighter, thinner laptops) in order to justify the tradeoff. I don't see a tangible benefit in getting rid of the headphone jack - the phone isn't thinner or lighter because of it - and wireless headphones are not dramatically better than wired headphones. In some cases, they're worse. And they're also not in nearly as widespread use as CD-ROMs were when the floppy drive was removed, or as internet downloading of software and movies was when the optical drives were removed. So that's not really an accurate comparison.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:24 pm

What do we mean by "when the floppy drive was phased out" ? The phase-out lasted something like 15 years, and 2-3 years ago you could still buy PC motherboards with a floppy connector. Brand new USB floppy drives are still offered, as are floppy discs themselves.
 
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kasimir
Posts: 268
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
What do we mean by "when the floppy drive was phased out" ? The phase-out lasted something like 15 years, and 2-3 years ago you could still buy PC motherboards with a floppy connector. Brand new USB floppy drives are still offered, as are floppy discs themselves.

I think it was meant when Apple completely removed the floppy drive from its Mac line-up in 1998 and got replaced by the CD-ROM drive. Also at the same time Steve Jobs decided to get rid of the old LPT and COM Ports and replace them by USB.

But like mentioned by me and others here, when something like this happened in the past, Apple has usually replaced an open industry standard by another open connection/drive/port.
I believe this is the first time in Apple's history that an open industry standard has been replaced by a propriety connection/drive/port, this is were my biggest criticism is...
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:29 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Klaus wrote:
In actual practice, the only real issue is for people who actually use wired headphones while charging the device. And for that there already exist Lightning charging docks with an audio jack built in, for instance.


In other words, Apple never shuts a door without giving you the option to PAY to open a window.... :roll:


Which change made by any manufacturer that obsoleted older ports did not require new purchases to compensate for that, if a user still had that need? And here we're talking about a relatively uncommon niche usage. For most people who want to use an analog output the included adapter will just work.

YZF101 wrote:
Yes, the losing of the 3/8 jack is not a good way forward.

I see the adaptors being way too bulky wire wise,


It's tiny!

and that is going to put a lot of strain on the lightning connector. These are kind of flimsy at best, are they not?


No, they are not, which is apparently one of the reasons why Apple is not using USB-C there (besides USB-C being much bulkier).

Lightning plugs and sockets are both actually milled from massive chunks of metal, not just the usual flimsy plastic-and-sheet-metal as most other connectors.

There are simply too many people that have purchased decent headphones, or more than decent, and will not have the option of directly plugging their expensive 'phones into the new iphone. As it is, with talk of slimming down other units and going to mini usb, adaptors will be needed to use your nice headphones further down the road. Not a pleasant thought.


I myself am using and at least for the medium term will continue to use higher-grade analog headphones; But if the adapter is done correctly it will just become part of the headphone cable and that's that. Not that big a deal, really.

And I'm still 'mad' that they discontinued the ipod classic - 160 gb of storage is great.


And iPhones have had 128GB of solid-state storage for two years by now, and are getting 256GB just now.

The problem with the classic iPods was that the manufacturer of the micro harddisks just stopped making them, and Appe's progressively shrinking demand for these apparently didn't justify keeping the line open. That those micro harddisks also had high failure rates when used on the go was another factor, and the arrival of really big flash memory was imminent anyway. So It was effectively just a temporary dip in the maximum capacity available.

And add to that the sharply declining sales of iPods overall because most people simply want to have their music on their smartphone anyway. Boosting storage on the iPhone was the obvious way to go, and I'm glad they did.

I'm using pretty good Grado headphones with my iPhone 6 which has enough storage to hold my entire music library. It's a big step forward from any iPod. And while I'll probably stick with that iPhone 6 for a few more years yet, having to use an adapter really wouldn't bother me as long as the DAC in the adapter was of comparable quality to the built-in one of the existing iPhones.

Tugger wrote:
Klaus, you must agree though that this entire "new model" thing is nothing but a cost reduction exercise. I seriously see nothing new here. Right?


An analog adapter is included in the box on top of the USB cable, charger and now Lightning earbuds. So they have two ADCs now in the box (one in the adapter, the other in the Lighning earbuds), and the phones have double the storage, much improved cameras, better displays, longer battery life, a much faster processor and the prices are unchanged to the predecessor models. So no, I don't have to agree with your claim.

If you want to compare by yourself, here's the table:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/

Is there anything they have done on the iPhone 7 to make an exceptional leader in the technology space? A product that exceeds what others are producing? I don't see any superlatives.


The iPhone 7 has by very far the fastest smartphone processor you can buy, not just in short benchmark runs but especially in sustained performance, where most other smartphones suffer from severe throttling. Apple is investing billions of dollars into their own CPU development, and it shows.

iOS. Developed specifically to run on this particular hardware, and clearly developed to match the quality of the hardware (both not perfect, but top notch). Device buyers are Apple's paying customers, and Apple clearly recognizes that. With Android you're only using a lure Google produces to reel you in to their paying advertising customers, and Google doesn't really care whether you like it or not as long as you just keep using it, since you are not their paying customer. And that also shows.

iOS is now effectively the only mobile OS on the market which is designed from the start to protect users' privacy, not to make it easy to exploit user data for ad spamming.

It's the only smartphone on the market which has comparatively long-term upgrade and update support (5 years currently). Updates are also immediately available to all users on the same day.

The security architecture is still best-of-class while most Android phones are relatively easy to crack (even most encrypted ones have just half-baked key management and are vulnerable, contrary to the hardware encryption Apple uses). TouchID is hardware-protected even against iOS or any apps reading the actual fingerprints, contrary to Android phones where the fingerprints are fair game for any attacker.

Local backup and sync out of the box with no external servers needed.

iOS Privacy controls have the user in charge and in control.


Even just the security and update situation doesn't leave much of an alternative for me; Fortunately the iPhone also has top-notch hardware and software quality beyond that.

If not then it is strictly cost reduction, they just made it cheaper to produce (which with declining market share, and sales makes sense).


Your theory just suffers from a complete and total lack of any evidence overall.

The iPhone is still the top-selling smartphone overall and Apple rakes in by far most of the industry's profits (in total!). That the smartphone market is just now approaching saturation leaves Apple in much better shape than any other manufacturer, and their margins are very far away from being forced to shave cents of the manufacturing costs, contrary to most of their competitors.

kasimir wrote:
But like mentioned by me and others here, when something like this happened in the past, Apple has usually replaced an open industry standard by another open connection/drive/port.
I believe this is the first time in Apple's history that an open industry standard has been replaced by a propriety connection/drive/port, this is were my biggest criticism is...


Apple's view of this is apparently that they see Bluetooth as the open standard that's still supported the same way as before, and that the adapter takes care of the analog output. So all capabilities are effectively unchanged.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15887
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:33 pm

Klaus wrote:
we're talking about a relatively uncommon niche usage. For most people who want to use an analog output the included adapter will just work.


People who charge their device while using wired headphones are "relatively uncommon"? Have you set foot on an airplane with in-seat power lately?

C'mon, wipe the fanboyism off your glasses and take a good hard look for once - you'll see that this is not a small niche.
 
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zckls04
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:39 pm

Tugger wrote:
Klaus, you must agree though that this entire "new model" thing is nothing but a cost reduction exercise.


I see it more as revenue generation than cost reduction. The more phones have only a lightning connector, the more accessories will be made which use it. The more accessories people own with proprietary connectors, the more locked in to the Apple ecosystem they are.

I doubt it'll last though. I suspect it will go the way of Firewire soon enough. Of all of Apple's many strengths, making a decent, reliable cable never was one of them, and the Lightning is no different.
 
coolian2
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:37 am

Image

Interesting conspiracy theory...
 
JJJ
Posts: 4117
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:18 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Klaus wrote:
we're talking about a relatively uncommon niche usage. For most people who want to use an analog output the included adapter will just work.


People who charge their device while using wired headphones are "relatively uncommon"? Have you set foot on an airplane with in-seat power lately?

C'mon, wipe the fanboyism off your glasses and take a good hard look for once - you'll see that this is not a small niche.


No need to go a plane. Any office will have people with earphones on and the phone docked to the computer/wall so as not to lose charge. It seems like everyone in programming or graphic design is with their headphones on all day lately.
 
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kasimir
Posts: 268
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:23 pm

Klaus wrote:
Apple's view of this is apparently that they see Bluetooth as the open standard that's still supported the same way as before, and that the adapter takes care of the analog output. So all capabilities are effectively unchanged.

I am sorry, but I don't believe Apple is so stupid to believe that Bluetooth is the open replacement of the open industry standard 3.5mm connector! I think you are trying to defend Apple at any cost possible. To say that the adapter takes care of the analog output is not completely correct! While it works in one way (connect your old headphones via adapter), what about the very realistic scenario that people for example take their included iphone headphones (now with lightning connector) into a plane and switch between their iphone (to listen music) and the IFE system (to watch something)???
There is no backwards compatibility or any adapter to connect a lightning headphone to a headphone jack! To realize such an adapter is not easy either, since the adapter will need a power source to drive the ADC (= analog to digital converter) and the lightning headphones itself.

As a matter of fact, I just used my apple in-ear headphones to listen music via my iphone and then had a business skype meeting which i needed to take on my mac (because i had to use screen sharing) and then i just switched my headphones from the iphone to the mac.. If I had lightning headphones, I would not be able to have that skype meeting or need to now carry around 2 headphones all the time, to make sure I am able to do things that I need to do!

zckls04 wrote:
I doubt it'll last though. I suspect it will go the way of Firewire soon enough. Of all of Apple's many strengths, making a decent, reliable cable never was one of them, and the Lightning is no different.


Funny enough the firewire port (or technically called IEEE 1394) was also an open industry standard even though it was initiated and designed by Apple, it was developed by the IEEE P1394 Working Group which consisted of more companies. But you are right that Firewire was not a very popular connector and was basically destroyed by USB.

Similar story by the way with Thunderbolt, based on Intels light peak concept, the copper version (which shares the same connector as the mini Displayport) was further developed by Intel and Apple, but it never got any attention outside of Apple. You will only see mini-display ports outside of apple hardware, but that is not the same as Thunderbolt! Even apple is starting to realize that thunderbolt hasn't worked out as they wanted to and included an HDMI port on their Mac line-up...

I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 3-5 years apple will either reintroduce the headphone jack, or switch completely to an open standard like USB Type C. Even Steve Wozniak criticized Apple and believes that the future is with USB Type C.
 
wingman
Posts: 4191
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:28 pm

Here's a take on specs that is interesting. Kinda like the Germans always seeming to get better performance from less hp, even on a pound per lb basis than almost any other manufacturers out there. I must insist on equating Apple to German performance cars!

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/12/12886 ... ompetition
 
YZF101
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:52 am

I see the adaptors being way too bulky wire wise,[/quote]

It's tiny!

and that is going to put a lot of strain on the lightning connector. These are kind of flimsy at best, are they not?


No, they are not, which is apparently one of the reasons why Apple is not using USB-C there (besides USB-C being much bulkier).

Lightning plugs and sockets are both actually milled from massive chunks of metal, not just the usual flimsy plastic-and-sheet-metal as most other connectors.


(Forgive me if the quoting is off...)
I'll need to disagree with this, Klaus....I have a CAT 5 to lightning adaptor for my mac air (for internet) and it is rather large, and the cable is rather hefty! Add in the two ends, and it is rather long too. Add in another tail to this monstrosity, and it'll look like Horton's trunk! I'm looking forward to getting a portable headphone amp, and the connectors would look worse than behind my home system with this iphone7 adaptor.

Thanks for the insight on the ipod classic, though....appreciate that!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:29 am

YZF101 wrote:
(Forgive me if the quoting is off...)


Just use the Preview button to check; It's easy to fix with that.

I'll need to disagree with this, Klaus....I have a CAT 5 to lightning adaptor for my mac air (for internet) and it is rather large, and the cable is rather hefty!

Add in the two ends, and it is rather long too. Add in another tail to this monstrosity, and it'll look like Horton's trunk! I'm looking forward to getting a portable headphone amp, and the connectors would look worse than behind my home system with this iphone7 adaptor.


Macs don't have Lightning ports.

What you have is either a USB-to-Ethernet or a Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter, both of which contain a complete network "card" like the ones you could plug into a PC; Ethernet requires a Phy including potential-separating transformers and of course the relatively bulky socket for an ethernet plug, so that is very different from the audio adapter for the iPhone.

Thanks for the insight on the ipod classic, though....appreciate that!


You're welcome.
 
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kasimir
Posts: 268
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Re: Apple iPhone 7 Event today 10am PT 6pm GMT links to blogs

Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:23 pm

I just read the review of Walt Mossberg at The Verge and usually he is very much pro Apple and praises them like crazy, but this time around he is becoming more neutral and let me quote the last part of his conclusion.

But, despite the undisputed improvements, this new iPhone just isn’t as compelling an upgrade as many of its predecessors. Some might want to wait a year for the next really big thing — and maybe a better audio solution to boot.

Here is the link to the whole article, IMO he is spot on about the headphone jack situation:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12895 ... lus-review

YZF101 wrote:
No, they are not, which is apparently one of the reasons why Apple is not using USB-C there (besides USB-C being much bulkier).

Lightning plugs and sockets are both actually milled from massive chunks of metal, not just the usual flimsy plastic-and-sheet-metal as most other connectors.


I had to reply on this part, because I hear a lot of comments about USB Type C being flimsy or not as strong as Lightning, which is total crap, otherwise why would Apple use USB Type C as single port on its new Macbook (also to replace the beloved Magsafe port)? By the way, be prepared to also see USB Type C on the next gen Macbook Pro!

Lightning and USB Type C both have their pros and cons, but I will guarantee you that if you buy a high quality USB Type C cable, it will be just as durable as lightning and very likely still be cheaper then the $30 apple is charging for its cable!

Yes, USB Type C is slightly larger then lightning and very similar in size to micro USB, see 2 images...
Image
Image

But lightning has a huge disadvantage and that is that the pins are exposed, where as the pins with USB Type C are protected. I already had to replace 2 lightning cables due to damage on the exposed pins (getting black, just google "lightning cable corrosion"). This issue will now become even worst, because the lightning headphones should also be used a lot and thinking about replacing expensive lightning headphones all the time, due to this corrosion issue, will be even more costlier for the consumer...

So again, lets not act like apple does everything perfect!

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